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Team League Special Part 3: The Greatest Players

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Team League Special Part 3: The Greatest Players

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics bylichter
December 10th, 2015 02:42 GMT

by stuchiu



Starcraft 2 is a 1v1 game. And because of that it becomes natural for the stories, narratives and attention to generally be focused on the champions of tournaments, the players that can climb to the top of the scene and lift the trophy over the rest of his peers. This article seeks to rectify that. Team leagues have been a part of SC2 since its inception and have been the breeding grounds for the majority of SC2 players. Originally, this article started off as a power rank of the greatest SC2 team league players of all time, but the more research I did, the clearer it was that such a ranking was impossible. The formats, player pools, competition level and timelines made it impossible to create a coherent framework for a unified ranking.

For instance, take Proleague. No one can deny that it is by far the hardest and best team league in SC2’s history. But even within Proleague itself, there are inconsistencies. The 2012-2013 format had a Bo7 SPL format, whereas future iterations had Bo5 round robins with alternating all-kill format in the round playoffs. The former had far more games over its year-long history, but the latter had more prestige and arguably more pressure as there were way more fans in attendance. This doesn’t even go into the varying GSTL formats which ranged from 8 team single bracket elimination to double bracket round robins in either Bo7 all-kill or Bo9 all-kill formats. And while Proleague features more games, and thus should arguably be harder, it also means that players' scores are padded. It doesn’t matter how many times Prime plays against SKT, KT, CJ or JA; they will always lose. At the same time the team league formats before SPL generally kicked out all of the weaker teams because of the much faster format, meaning aces for those teams got fewer chances to pad their stat sheets. At the same time though, ace players don’t need to super hard carry their teams in SPL format because they can only be fielded twice per match (once in the roster, once as ace) whereas in all-kill format, it was possible to get 4 or 5 kills in a single outing.

Given all of that however, I picked out the best team league players across all five years based on their overall records, importance to their teams, all-kills and ace wins, and playoff performances. In particular, three players stood out above the rest when it came to team league achievements in the last five years, and they will be explored in the last section of these team league articles.

The Great Team League Players


sOs, The Million Dollar Man


In terms of pure numbers put on the board, sOs has been the most consistent player since Proleague's inception in SC2. He played on Woongjin Stars until they disbanded before being signed by Jin Air. His overall records were 32-15, 26-18 and 25-16. However, you have to consider the numbers in the context of his teams and his role in the team. Woongjin Stars was probably the strangest team that ever existed in Proleague. They had two really strong players in sOs and Soulkey but neither were actually aces in the traditional sense. Their job was usually to secure the first 1-2 games, at which point the Woongjin Stars backline would clean up the series within the next 4 games. This was helped by Ryu Won, who often gave his players favorable matchups or at least a chance at victory. In the Woongjin Stars' one year in Proleague, they were only ever forced to play an ace match 5 times out of 42 total Proleague matches. While sOs was an important piece in the Stars lineup, the overall team depth and coaching was what made that such a dominant team.

[image loading]


His time on Jin Air has been different. For all of 2014, he and Maru were the two aces of the team. The problem with sOs was that when it came to ace matches, he failed more than he won, with a 1-4 record during that year. However, his playoff performance was strong, as he got a triple kill against Samsung in Round 3. 2015 SPL was his best showing as he put up the numbers during the regular rounds, but also carried the team with two all kills against CJ and KT, taking the most wins for JA in the playoffs against nearly every team they went up against.

  • SPL 2013: 32-15 | 1-0 in ace matches
  • SPL 2014: 25-13 | 1-4 in ace matches
    • 3x Kill Samsung: Shine, Stork, RorO
  • SPL 2015: 27-17 | 0-1 in ace matches
    • AK CJ: herO, RagnaroK, ByuL, Bbyong
    • Reverse AK KT: Flash, TY, Zest, Stats


GuMiho, The Specialist


Among all the players on this list, GuMiho is an exceptional case. Every other player on this list has won multiple championships, and has at one point or another been considered one of the Top 3 players in their race, if not the world, for extended periods of time. It makes sense that the best team league players generally also happen to be some of the best individual league players. GuMiho is the exception. Along with Leenock as his co-ace and Choya as coach, the three of them would create one the most successful GSTL teams of all time with 2 victories and a Ro4 in the most competitive era of GSTL along with its best formats.

What makes GuMiho an even weirder case is that his team didn’t revolve around him, but more around Leenock and coach Choya’s great ability to counter pick opponents with surprising and effective snipers. His overall records in the GSTL were 9-3 and 6-3, and in Proleague it was 9-3 and 5-3. However, the way he came about those stats is what’s interesting. On CJ, he was never used as a stable core of the lineup despite his overall strong record (and ability to beat the best player of 2014 after a booth was dropped on his head).

[image loading]


In contrast, on teams led by Choya, GuMiho often clutched out the most important matches for the team, all-killing Slayers 5-0 in the GSTL Finals and triple killing MVP in the second GSTL finals. In SPL he has gone 1-1 in ace matches, but due to the lack of skill and depth of MVP compared to other teams, they weren’t able to get much further. If there were ever a case where a player seemed to get exponentially better when he was in team leagues compared to his usual skill, GuMiho was that player.

The Rising herO


Among all of the aces in SPL, herO has had the most linear progression of results. Which is really interesting when you consider that for a majority of players, results rarely come in a constant slope. They come in waves, there are ups and downs, but not so in herO’s case. Just look at his record in Proleague for the last three years:

  • SPL 2013: 28-21 | 2-4 in ace matches
  • SPL 2014: 26-18 | 5-4 in ace matches
  • SPL 2015: 25-16 | 2-3 in ace matches


[image loading]


In the first year of SPL, herO wasn’t even the biggest contributing player on his team (It was Hydra). The year after that, he became the clear ace of his team (going 5-4 in ace matches for SPL 2014). By the third year of SPL, CJ had a new 2nd man in ByuL and Bbyong was still reliable so it didn’t get to ace matches quite as often. An interesting player when you notice that his results mirror his own individual league performances unlike players such as TY or Solar.

God in his Domain


In the first few years of play, no matter how many times he disappointed his fans, no matter how many times the hype trains crashed, Flash was always able to deliver in Proleague. In many ways, his 2013 and 2014 were actually fairly similar. Flash would carry his team while Zest and TY would put on really good performances to ensure their playoff spots. The biggest blot of his career however was his 2015 season, where he performed abysmally for the entirety of the year until his triple kill in the playoffs at the last second. A very dramatic decline, but still one of the better team league players despite his 2015 season.

  • SPL 2013: 44-21 | 2-4 in ace matches
  • SPL 2014: 23-16 | 3-2 in ace matches
  • SPL 2015: 14-18 | no ace matches


The Vanguard of KeSPA


The first player that made it big after the KeSPA switch was Rain. It wasn’t surprising as he was already a rising star in the BW scene and was picked to be a big future prospect. While that potential never had time to be fulfilled in BW, it seemed to have transferred over perfectly in SC2 as he became one of the biggest protoss players in 2012. He was instrumental in the creation of what we now know as the PvP matchup and became SKT’s first new star in their SC2 squad. While his run in Proleague was only 2 years, it was a very strong 2 years. Rain is also the only player to be worth 11 points in an FPL round (2013) in history (both Maru and Flash have reached 10).

[image loading]


  • PL 2013: 36-22 | 3-3 in ace matches
  • PL 2014: 21-10 | 4-1 in ace matches


The Man from Busan


DRG was a strange person to pin down when it came to team leagues, particularly because of the way MVP used team leagues. He was initially used as an ace for the team in the early GSTLs and had a triple kill against the now defunct team of oGs. He became MMA’s one true rival in both team leagues and individual leagues, and hard carried his team in the first official GSTL Season 1 where he 3K’d oGs, 3K’d SlayerS and AK’d Prime. And at that point, he was almost never used again except in ace match situations. Much like Incredible Miracle, team MVP used team leagues mostly to foster the growth of their other team members. Unlike IM however, they were incredibly successful while fostering that growth meaning that DRG rarely got to come out for team leagues since. The next time we saw him was in his two seasons of Proleague, where he did okay in 2014 (bar the miraculous MVP run) and really well in 2015. Still one of the great team league players in SC2, but hard to pin down because of the way his team rarely used him.

  • GSTL 2011 May: 5-1
    • 3K oGs: Nada, SuperNova, MC
  • GSTL 2011 Season 1: 13-2
    • 3K oGs: Nada, HerO, Cezanne
    • 3K SlayerS: BoxeR, GanZi, MMA
    • AK Prime: MKP, Anypro, B4, Polt
    • Playoffs 3K IM: Happy, YongHwa, Losira
  • SPL 2014: 10-14
  • SPL 2015: 9-3


The Boy Wonder


Despite already having a huge player for Proleague in sOs, I contend that the biggest pickup Jin Air ever made was actually Maru. In two seasons of play he ended his 2014 season as the player with the most wins, and his 2015 season as the player with the second most wins. He has been a consistent ace player for Jin Air and has often gone big for them no matter how well or poorly the rest of his team fared. Not only did he routinely put up the wins in round robin play, but he almost always came big in every playoffs he was a part of. Among all the players on this list, he comes the closest to joining the pantheon of Greatest Team League Players to have ever played SC2.

[image loading]


  • SPL 2014: 30-15 | 4-3 in ace matches
    • 3K MVP: Billowy, DRG, TAiLS
    • 3K CJ: Bunny, Hydra, herO
    • 3K KT: Flash, Sleep, TY
  • SPL 2015: 27-16 | 4-3 in ace matches
    • 3K KT: Zest, Life, Stats
    • AK KT: Zest, Life, Stats, Flash


The Greatest Team League Players of All Time


While I was unable to rank any of the team league players in any kind of coherent Power Ranking, there were three players who stood above the rest when it came to team league results.

Mr. Team League



MMA made it on my list as one of the greatest players of all time. Yet there is an entire other side of MMA’s story that has nothing to do with his individual results, and that is the steadily amazing and strong performances he’s put on in nearly every team league he has ever entered. In many ways, the team league has been home field for MMA. It is the place where he first rose to become a huge name in the scene. It is the place where he recovered from his slump after leaving Korea. It is the place that has become almost synonymous with his name. While he doesn’t have the incredible heights that INnoVation or TaeJa had in contrast, his work has been very consistent and he was a major part of how both SlayerS and Acer reached and won so many team league finals.

[image loading]


  • GSTL 2011 March: 5-1
  • GSTL 2011 May: 3-0
  • GSTL 2013 Season 2: 5-2
  • ATC 1: 31-14
  • ATC 2: 17-3
  • ATC 3: 16-10

Total Titles: 6

The Super Ace


In terms of pure results, no one tops INnoVation in team leagues. He was on three different teams, entering 5 team leagues—2 ATCs, 1 GSTL and 2 Proleagues. He won them all. The only thing that doesn’t make him the default best team league player of all time is that he was also on really strong teams for the majority of those runs, barring his time on STX, where he really hard carried. In his GSTL run, he was with Axiom—a team that had just come third the season before without his or MMA’s help. In the 2 ATCs he shared ace duties with MMA, and while he put on more numbers in the regular season, MMA pulled really heavy weight in those team leagues as well. Finally his latest Proleague title came with SKT where he wasn’t even the biggest contributor on his team (he was second to soO). Even more insane was that the next three players of SKT were Dark, Classic and Dream with records of 17-12, 15-8 and 12-6 respectively. Yes, he was an important part of SKT, but SKT ran 5 deep in a league that requires only 4 player slots.

[image loading]


Even in those circumstances, he is still one of, if not the greatest, Team League player SC2 has ever produced and has always been one of the core players as to whether or not a team wins the league.

  • ATC 2: 20-7
  • ATC 3: 38-8
  • GSTL 2013 S2: 12-2
  • SPL 2013: 44-20 | 3-1 in ace matches
  • PL 2015:18-7 | 1-0 in ace matches

Total Titles: 5

The Super Hard Carry


TaeJa is again an anomaly. Unlike the other two players, he does not even have a team league title to his name. His biggest and majority claim to fame however was his IPL TAC 3 run. To understand the magnitude of the run, I will Power Rank the strength of the teams before the event started:

  1. IM
  2. StarTale
  3. Prime
  4. MVP
  5. SlayerS
  6. FXO
  7. TSL
  8. NSHS
  9. Team Liquid


Team Liquid were the 9th best team in the league. He took a 9th place team and carried them all the way to 2nd place. Yes, he had some assistance from HerO and others, but Taeja almost single-handedly enabled this entire run against 8 of the best Korean teams in the world. Here are the results he had to pull off to make this happen:

  • Prime AK: Annyeong, B4, Creator, Maru, MKP
  • MVP 2K: TAiLS, Vampire
  • ST 4K: Life, Curious, Squirtle, Bomber
  • SlayerS 4K: Genius, CoCa, Min, Puzzle
  • IM AK: Seed, YongHwa, Losira, NesTea, YoDa
  • IM 2K: First, YongHwa


That is the single hardest run anyone has ever had to do in a team league in SC2. No run even comes comparably close. To put it into modern day terms, it's as if Proleague switched to all-kill Bo9 format, INnoVation switched teams to Prime, then proceeded to all-kill Samsung, ST-Yoe, CJ, Jin Air, KT, and SKT 1.5 times. That was the relative difficulty that Taeja had to overcome with his run.

Also he did well in some ATCs, but really all of Taeja’s greatness in team leagues comes from that single run alone.

  • IPL TAC 3: 23-3
  • ATC 1: 21-15
  • ATC 2: 20-12
  • ATC 3: 14-6


[image loading]


Writer: stuchiu
Graphics: lichter
Photos: Daily E-Sports, GameMecca
Editor: lichter
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TL+ Member
JamesT
Profile Blog Joined October 2014
United States681 Posts
December 10 2015 03:01 GMT
#2
To put it into modern day terms, it's as if Proleague switched to all-kill Bo9 format, INnoVation switched teams to Prime, then proceeded to all-kill Samsung, ST-Yoe, CJ, Jin Air, KT, and SKT 1.5 times. That was the relative difficulty that Taeja had to overcome with his run.

Gave me a good hardy laugh even though prime does not exist anymore.
How are you doing today?
Solar424
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
United States4001 Posts
December 10 2015 03:11 GMT
#3
On December 10 2015 12:01 JamesT wrote:
Show nested quote +
To put it into modern day terms, it's as if Proleague switched to all-kill Bo9 format, INnoVation switched teams to Prime, then proceeded to all-kill Samsung, ST-Yoe, CJ, Jin Air, KT, and SKT 1.5 times. That was the relative difficulty that Taeja had to overcome with his run.

Gave me a good hardy laugh even though prime does not exist anymore.

That makes it even more impressive
forsakeNXE
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany539 Posts
December 10 2015 03:11 GMT
#4
www.youtube.com

This was when INnoVation really took a special place in my heart

Such a great series!
Let's learn together!
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5357 Posts
December 10 2015 03:16 GMT
#5
The legendary IPLTAC3 1v9
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
December 10 2015 03:22 GMT
#6
How come you no show MMA's stats from this year and Taeja's from 2012-2013 SPL?

Inno still the team league God.
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
December 10 2015 04:04 GMT
#7
I have such a love hate relationship with these articles because the story of DRG being "great" not "greatest" seems to be a very common theme. I am honestly surprised MMA made top 3, he is obv great, but when I think team league, im much more likely to think of even Yonghwa
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
December 10 2015 04:27 GMT
#8
I still think greatest of all time list should have just been INnoVation/TaeJa.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
FlyingSteaks
Profile Joined April 2012
Brazil433 Posts
December 10 2015 04:48 GMT
#9
Innovation should've been crowned the greatest, but yeah ok
Shana
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Indonesia1814 Posts
December 10 2015 04:49 GMT
#10
Ah yes Taeja, that kid won so much on WoL right? Whatever happened to him during HotS till now since I barely read his name anymore on news.
Believing in what lies ahead. | That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet.
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
December 10 2015 04:50 GMT
#11
On December 10 2015 13:49 Shana wrote:
Ah yes Taeja, that kid won so much on WoL right? Whatever happened to him during HotS till now since I barely read his name anymore on news.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/483881-greatest-players-of-all-time-part-3
Moderator
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
December 10 2015 05:10 GMT
#12
do you guys remember when mma did unbelievable shit in slayers? god I miss that team. the hype was real back then
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
December 10 2015 05:18 GMT
#13
Taeja best team league player of all time off a single performance. It was one hell of a performance but still. Liquid advantage.
chambertin
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1704 Posts
December 10 2015 05:58 GMT
#14
On December 10 2015 12:16 Whatson wrote:
The legendary IPLTAC3 1v9


Ya but more like 1 vs 23 ...

God that run was so fucking fantastic. (one of them' glad I was around back then moments)
"I know one thing, that I know nothing" - Socrates?
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
December 10 2015 06:02 GMT
#15
On December 10 2015 14:18 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Taeja best team league player of all time off a single performance. It was one hell of a performance but still. Liquid advantage.


i'm not sure whether this list is in order. i think it isn't but i dunno.

it was definitely one of the greatest performances in the history of sc2. easily top 5 performances ever. but yeah he wouldn't be my consensus #1.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-10 06:20:49
December 10 2015 06:17 GMT
#16
On December 10 2015 14:18 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Taeja best team league player of all time off a single performance. It was one hell of a performance but still. Liquid advantage.

Hey we all love our Taeja is the best narrative which is set up anywhere you look at for achievements which aren't really comparable at all with the truly great ones.
IPL TAC, lol.

The comparison to allkilling all the proleague teams, cmon man you are better than that stuchiu -.-

It is time that proleague starts again btw, we all know it's the most exciting sc2 league there is.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16009 Posts
December 10 2015 06:52 GMT
#17
On December 10 2015 15:17 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2015 14:18 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Taeja best team league player of all time off a single performance. It was one hell of a performance but still. Liquid advantage.

Hey we all love our Taeja is the best narrative which is set up anywhere you look at for achievements which aren't really comparable at all with the truly great ones.
IPL TAC, lol.

The comparison to allkilling all the proleague teams, cmon man you are better than that stuchiu -.-

It is time that proleague starts again btw, we all know it's the most exciting sc2 league there is.

you always find a way to disregard taejas achievements do you?
also there were all the top teams of the world so it is comparable to proleague
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5357 Posts
December 10 2015 07:00 GMT
#18
On December 10 2015 13:04 Cricketer12 wrote:
I have such a love hate relationship with these articles because the story of DRG being "great" not "greatest" seems to be a very common theme. I am honestly surprised MMA made top 3, he is obv great, but when I think team league, im much more likely to think of even Yonghwa

MMA will always be regarded as THE clutchest teamleague player of the WoL era. Yonghwa? He had his all-kills but even then he was never that Ace player that won his team a GSTL title. DRG had his moments, definitely. Unfortunately, he lost to MMA too many times with the championship on the line to be considered the greatest .
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Diabolique
Profile Joined June 2015
Czech Republic5118 Posts
December 10 2015 07:40 GMT
#19
Thank you for the million dollar man, I missed his mentioning anywhere for a long time ... and I was following him in season 3 / 2015 when he was definitely not the advantage for JAGW ... A pity, he did not beat Innovation in the final and in the final ace match as he would end the season finals with 10-0 score :-) At that time, BlizzCon was set ... and when Life sent home Inno, there was no force in the way ...
sOs | Rogue | Maru | Trap | Scarlett | Snute | MC
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-10 07:44:22
December 10 2015 07:43 GMT
#20
MMA vs DRG had so much hype during the GSTL peak. That was a lot of fun, truly.

On Taeja's IPL TAC run, I read an article some years ago splitting out players, in professional sports, that produced Hall of Fame careers and "Pantheon" performances. The discussion revolving around players that reach a completely other level for a period of time. (I'm pretty sure it was about pitchers in the post-season in MLB baseball. Which is why it makes sense.)

Taeja just did things that simply aren't going to be repeated. He will always be the one true master in the "Low prep" events. Which is what makes him an all-time great, even if he never did win a GSL.
CynicalDeath
Profile Joined January 2012
Italy3490 Posts
December 10 2015 07:56 GMT
#21
To put it into modern day terms, it's as if Proleague switched to all-kill Bo9 format, INnoVation switched teams to Prime, then proceeded to all-kill Samsung, ST-Yoe, CJ, Jin Air, KT, and SKT 1.5 times. That was the relative difficulty that Taeja had to overcome with his run.

...this made me laugh and gave me nerdchills at the same time: when he was in shape, TaeJa was a monster!
ModeratorSC2 LP Admin - My Life for Aiur - Let the Metal flow - @Cynical_Death
MarianoSC2
Profile Joined June 2015
Slovakia1855 Posts
December 10 2015 08:12 GMT
#22
Wow... I have seen much fanboyism here but this is simply too much. Just stop it with the Taeja bias already its getting old. And really hurts this site in general. These kind of articles simply cant be taken seriosly. Its a Shame...
Top 11: Rogue, Maru, Inno, Zest, Life, sOs, Stats, Dark, soO, Mvp, Classic/Trap/MC/Rain
nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3751 Posts
December 10 2015 09:05 GMT
#23
Wasn't Taeja's IPL TAC run made easier thanks to korean teams playing generally from different server (IIRC most of the games were played online)?
Playoffs were offline. Still impressive but Proleague is always offline.
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
December 10 2015 09:31 GMT
#24
Since Taeja lived in Korea, either both Koreans played on the KR server or they both played on the NA server, he didn't have any inherent advantage.
Moderator
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
December 10 2015 09:40 GMT
#25
Taeja. Witnessing that finals against IM on stream was so amazing, one of the rare times I was on the edge of my seat watching this. And even when it was all over, I felt so damn happy with how close he made it. Taeja was a monster this summer.
LiquipediaWanderer
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55555 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-10 10:26:45
December 10 2015 10:18 GMT
#26
I like how the part about Taeja completely leaves out the EG-TL Proleague disaster where his winrate was below 50%. I mean, for Flash, half the text is about the worst Proleague season of his career. Taeja's worst isn't even mentioned in any shape or form, even though it was all offline in contrast to ATC.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
negativedge
Profile Joined December 2011
4279 Posts
December 10 2015 11:19 GMT
#27
that taeja run was hilarious (TL_LiquidSucksBallsWithoutMe nevar forget) but come on, Innvoation is the easy pick for greatest. consistently great over a long period of time, and he literally won every team league he's ever entered. no contest.
Lgnarrow
Profile Joined April 2015
104 Posts
December 10 2015 11:41 GMT
#28
Taeja - player of the year 2015
Veldril
Profile Joined August 2010
Thailand1817 Posts
December 10 2015 11:43 GMT
#29
On December 10 2015 20:19 negativedge wrote:
that taeja run was hilarious (TL_LiquidSucksBallsWithoutMe nevar forget) but come on, Innvoation is the easy pick for greatest. consistently great over a long period of time, and he literally won every team league he's ever entered. no contest.


For those who wonder:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/359920-pics-liquid-new-recuits

That was legendary indeed.
Without love, we can't see anything. Without love, the truth can't be seen. - Umineko no Naku Koro Ni
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8159 Posts
December 10 2015 11:45 GMT
#30
On December 10 2015 20:19 negativedge wrote:
that taeja run was hilarious (TL_LiquidSucksBallsWithoutMe nevar forget) but come on, Innvoation is the easy pick for greatest. consistently great over a long period of time, and he literally won every team league he's ever entered. no contest.


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StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55555 Posts
December 10 2015 11:55 GMT
#31
MoustacheTerran is the best.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
FunKaDeLiC
Profile Joined April 2010
France79 Posts
December 10 2015 11:56 GMT
#32
Inno's stats are just disgusting.
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
December 10 2015 12:03 GMT
#33
On December 10 2015 18:40 Ragnarork wrote:
Taeja. Witnessing that finals against IM on stream was so amazing, one of the rare times I was on the edge of my seat watching this. And even when it was all over, I felt so damn happy with how close he made it. Taeja was a monster this summer.


Yeah Taeja single-handedly saved an otherwise awful event. Guy was like fucking Majin Buu, just wouldn't die.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Lgnarrow
Profile Joined April 2015
104 Posts
December 10 2015 12:19 GMT
#34
Inno's stats are simillar to Flash's stats from bw. Clearly best TL player in SC2.

Btw, will we see "best HotS players" ranking, or article ?
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
December 10 2015 12:19 GMT
#35
Main problem with Inno is that he rolled a 0 for his charisma stat.
Zest fanboy.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
December 10 2015 12:20 GMT
#36
On December 10 2015 15:52 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2015 15:17 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On December 10 2015 14:18 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Taeja best team league player of all time off a single performance. It was one hell of a performance but still. Liquid advantage.

Hey we all love our Taeja is the best narrative which is set up anywhere you look at for achievements which aren't really comparable at all with the truly great ones.
IPL TAC, lol.

The comparison to allkilling all the proleague teams, cmon man you are better than that stuchiu -.-

It is time that proleague starts again btw, we all know it's the most exciting sc2 league there is.

you always find a way to disregard taejas achievements do you?
also there were all the top teams of the world so it is comparable to proleague

Hey it's not my fault that Taeja gets overhyped all the time I don't even wanna complain because i really like the articles and that stuchiu takes the time to write these, it's a great way to remember and revisit all of these events/moments, but yes anytime Taeja is mentioned i am here to make fun of him a bit.
"all these premier titles" Nobody ever mentions that there were quite a few uncompetetive ones in there. (just an example)
But yeah i doubt i can change the general view on Taeja, it's pretty much a lost cause
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
December 10 2015 12:44 GMT
#37
INnoVation > Taeja
just for the Frost game vs SuperNova
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
forsakeNXE
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany539 Posts
December 10 2015 14:33 GMT
#38
On December 10 2015 21:44 Ej_ wrote:
INnoVation > Taeja
just for the Frost game vs SuperNova


Do you mean the whirlwind map?
Let's learn together!
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
December 10 2015 14:38 GMT
#39
On December 10 2015 23:33 forsakeNXE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2015 21:44 Ej_ wrote:
INnoVation > Taeja
just for the Frost game vs SuperNova


Do you mean the whirlwind map?

nope, before the Whirlwind super ace they played a game on Frost where INnoVation was fucking dead in what had been a complete mech mirror with no way to come back. Then he suddenly turned the game around and snatched the GSTL championship from AZUBU and, after that, he finished off heartbroken SuNo on Whirlwind.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3751 Posts
December 10 2015 14:43 GMT
#40
On December 10 2015 21:03 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2015 18:40 Ragnarork wrote:
Taeja. Witnessing that finals against IM on stream was so amazing, one of the rare times I was on the edge of my seat watching this. And even when it was all over, I felt so damn happy with how close he made it. Taeja was a monster this summer.


Yeah Taeja single-handedly saved an otherwise awful event. Guy was like fucking Majin Buu, just wouldn't die.

You mean until Seed pulled Goku with Dragonball-based power restoration with Spirit Bomb to barely win.
BlackZetsu
Profile Joined October 2014
United States179 Posts
December 10 2015 15:27 GMT
#41
What a joke article. Doesn't even mention that had herO had the most wins in Proleague 2 years in a row, or that he's the only player to get 20 wins in Proleague in back to back years..
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-10 16:14:15
December 10 2015 15:44 GMT
#42
The final boss should have been top 3.
And fucking Sniper should have been on the list, because that guy was a god of Starcraft.
[image loading]
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55555 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-10 15:53:22
December 10 2015 15:49 GMT
#43
On December 11 2015 00:27 BlackZetsu wrote:
What a joke article. Doesn't even mention that had herO had the most wins in Proleague 2 years in a row, or that he's the only player to get 20 wins in Proleague in back to back years..

Just because the article doesn't mention every detail about your favorite player doesn't mean it's a joke.

Actually, pretty much every player on this list would deserve their own seperate article about their team league career (and a few more that aren't even mentioned here). And for herO that would include his inability to deliver in all-kill format.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
munch
Profile Joined July 2014
Mute City2363 Posts
December 10 2015 16:00 GMT
#44
On December 11 2015 00:27 BlackZetsu wrote:
What a joke article. Doesn't even mention that had herO had the most wins in Proleague 2 years in a row, or that he's the only player to get 20 wins in Proleague in back to back years..

2014:
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2015:
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WriterForm is temporary, MMA is permanent || http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/508630-article-archive
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
December 10 2015 16:03 GMT
#45
First of all, sOs picture reminded me this hilarious piece of art, need to see it again.

And then - not enough praise for sOs!

And to the discussion above me - I think that the "most wins" award is for wins outside of play off. Not sure though.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
munch
Profile Joined July 2014
Mute City2363 Posts
December 10 2015 16:05 GMT
#46
On December 11 2015 01:03 deacon.frost wrote:
First of all, sOs picture reminded me this hilarious piece of art, need to see it again.

And then - not enough praise for sOs!

And to the discussion above me - I think that the "most wins" award is for wins outside of play off. Not sure though.


I know, but just because it's the official award doesn't make ignoring playoff results correct.
Fact is, herO is awful in all-kill scenarios
WriterForm is temporary, MMA is permanent || http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/508630-article-archive
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
December 10 2015 20:04 GMT
#47
On December 10 2015 18:05 nimdil wrote:
Wasn't Taeja's IPL TAC run made easier thanks to korean teams playing generally from different server (IIRC most of the games were played online)?
Playoffs were offline. Still impressive but Proleague is always offline.


Right it was an online event (though Taeja would have been from Korea too as Stichui points out).

Normally these types of articles put offline events on a pedestal so it's weird to see how much weight IPL TAC is being given here especially since Taeja has mostly sucked in every other teamleague he's played in (true he got an all-kill with Slayers to burst on the scene).
nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3751 Posts
December 11 2015 00:35 GMT
#48
Honorable mention for Stephano's result in GSL World Championship:
1-0 MC
1-0 Life
1-0 MC
1-0 Seed
1-0 DongRaeGu
0-1 Squirtle
ZertoN
Profile Joined February 2014
Germany214 Posts
December 11 2015 14:20 GMT
#49
how can anyome seriously be so biased that they pick taeja over innovation as the greatest team league player of all time?
"I don't like games that i need to think a lot, i am not interested in those games." - TaeJa, 2016
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
December 11 2015 15:22 GMT
#50
On December 11 2015 00:27 BlackZetsu wrote:
What a joke article. Doesn't even mention that had herO had the most wins in Proleague 2 years in a row, or that he's the only player to get 20 wins in Proleague in back to back years..

This post is actually wrong in every single way (well done on that little achievement!)

herO actually lead the league in wins in neither 2014 nor 2015! Maru beat him by four wins in 2014 and he was topped by Rogue, sOs, Maru, and Zest in 2015.

Now quick thinkers in the audience may have already realized that what I just said makes Maru another player to get 20 wins in back to back years (30 and 27 respectively) therefore proving the second part of your statement to be false, but as the great Billy Mays would have said, "But wait, there's more!" sOs and Zest also pulled off the back to back 20 win splits. In terms of wins over the past two years, herO is third as it goes

Maru 57
sOs 52
herO 51
Zest 48

In terms of win % herO is actually fourth on this list of players who won 20 in back to back years. (Rounded to the nearest hundredth) It goes

sOs 65%
Maru 61.96%
Zest 60.76%
herO 60%

So you see while herO is undoubtedly a great team league player and one of the best playing today, he is not THE best and frankly the fact that he was mentioned here while someone like Zest was left out should be enough to make you happy.
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
Frenchy91
Profile Joined August 2015
France36 Posts
December 11 2015 16:23 GMT
#51
What a joke... Taeja is not a great team league player... Stop this liquid bias it's more and more ridiculous.

Innovation is the best when it comes to team league.
INnoVation SoO
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
December 11 2015 21:31 GMT
#52
Good recap - agree with the top 3. Taeja did win a GSTL or two while on Slayers right?
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
December 11 2015 21:32 GMT
#53
On December 11 2015 23:20 ZertoN wrote:
how can anyome seriously be so biased that they pick taeja over innovation as the greatest team league player of all time?


It's not Taeja > Inno, he didn't bother ranking the top 3.

Probably be something like Inno -> MMA -> Taeja
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
December 11 2015 22:14 GMT
#54
On December 12 2015 06:31 Bagration wrote:
Good recap - agree with the top 3. Taeja did win a GSTL or two while on Slayers right?


Wasn't on Slayers for their first win I believe.

IIRC his debut was in the second GSTL they won (when he all-killed Zenex). Went 0-1 as the starter next match (cuz how can you not start someone who all-killed?) then wasn't fielded in the finals.

I forgot how short GSTL's were, only 3 rounds, which does make his contribution more significant than I originally thought.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
December 12 2015 03:10 GMT
#55
Not a fan of leaving out PL stats to reinforce Taeja & MMA's "Greatest" narratives when you include them for DRG and other "Great" players who played over multiple eras.
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
December 12 2015 03:25 GMT
#56
On December 12 2015 06:32 Bagration wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2015 23:20 ZertoN wrote:
how can anyome seriously be so biased that they pick taeja over innovation as the greatest team league player of all time?


It's not Taeja > Inno, he didn't bother ranking the top 3.


The list is very clearly not numbered so I dunno why people assume it's in order
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
Shyft
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada37 Posts
December 12 2015 05:58 GMT
#57
I know he disappeared and everyone forgot about him, but MKP should get an honorable mention, he was an absolute monster back in the old school GSTL days
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
December 12 2015 06:07 GMT
#58
On December 12 2015 14:58 Shyft wrote:
I know he disappeared and everyone forgot about him, but MKP should get an honorable mention, he was an absolute monster back in the old school GSTL days


Some people are still upset at the events of April 8, 2012.
Philozovic
Profile Joined August 2012
France1677 Posts
December 12 2015 11:30 GMT
#59
On December 12 2015 06:32 Bagration wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2015 23:20 ZertoN wrote:
how can anyome seriously be so biased that they pick taeja over innovation as the greatest team league player of all time?


It's not Taeja > Inno, he didn't bother ranking the top 3.

Probably be something like Inno -> MMA -> Taeja


More like

Inno >>>>> who fucking cares who is second ?? Inno is going to win no matter what
INnoVation is the absolute best | I wept for i knew his words to be true
Boucot
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
France15997 Posts
December 12 2015 13:26 GMT
#60
TaeJa vs YongHwa on Antiga was stupidly good. What a performance he achieved. Unfortunately IPL TAC 3 still remains as one of the most embarrassing tournaments downtime-wise.
Former SC2 writer for Millenium - twitter.com/Boucot
jonich0n
Profile Joined February 2009
United States1982 Posts
December 13 2015 13:37 GMT
#61
nice to see Flash at least get a mention for being such a rock for KT until 2015 where he really struggled for too long of a period (what was it, he started 0-6 or 0-7 in the year? he bounced back in a way, but ultimately his overall record was very poor for the year considering the standards he had previously set). But still deserves respect for what he did for KT in '13 and '14.

and yes, for me, it has to be Inno, Maru and sOs who have to have been the standout most consistent performers in PL in the last couple years (although yes, Maru faded hard late in 2015, shame about the wrists ). Innovation for the last couple years especially, and dang did he carry in 2015, even though he had an incredible supporting cast around him just in case he'd occasionally falter (which he didn't).

herO, soO and Zest deserve shout-outs (herO especially considering how much extra pressure was on him considering his team depth) for being pretty great performers as well, despite both the protosses having some pretty bad periods of poor form/slump on a couple of occasions.

one final thing, where the hell is Life on these lists? you'd think such an accomplished and decorated individual league player would put up better results in team leagues, more akin to someone like Innovation, but he simply hasn't, not even close. one wonders.
(>'.')>
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
December 15 2015 07:58 GMT
#62
we need to bring back more team leagues. I miss them. speaking of teaja wasn't he in some showmatch recently? I mean I think he got swept but I remember him playing.

I'd make some comment about virus but I think the entirity of his team league career was a random 3 kill. maybe some stuff back when he first showed up but I don't think he was that successful then
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
BlackZetsu
Profile Joined October 2014
United States179 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-18 01:20:11
December 18 2015 01:20 GMT
#63
On December 12 2015 00:22 Darkhorse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2015 00:27 BlackZetsu wrote:
What a joke article. Doesn't even mention that had herO had the most wins in Proleague 2 years in a row, or that he's the only player to get 20 wins in Proleague in back to back years..

This post is actually wrong in every single way (well done on that little achievement!)

herO actually lead the league in wins in neither 2014 nor 2015! Maru beat him by four wins in 2014 and he was topped by Rogue, sOs, Maru, and Zest in 2015.

Now quick thinkers in the audience may have already realized that what I just said makes Maru another player to get 20 wins in back to back years (30 and 27 respectively) therefore proving the second part of your statement to be false, but as the great Billy Mays would have said, "But wait, there's more!" sOs and Zest also pulled off the back to back 20 win splits. In terms of wins over the past two years, herO is third as it goes

Maru 57
sOs 52
herO 51
Zest 48

In terms of win % herO is actually fourth on this list of players who won 20 in back to back years. (Rounded to the nearest hundredth) It goes

sOs 65%
Maru 61.96%
Zest 60.76%
herO 60%

So you see while herO is undoubtedly a great team league player and one of the best playing today, he is not THE best and frankly the fact that he was mentioned here while someone like Zest was left out should be enough to make you happy.


Regular season wins. herO even won an award for having the most wins in Proleague in back to back years at the SPL finals this year. I guess you didn't see that.
Dervish19
Profile Joined December 2015
3 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-28 04:03:33
December 28 2015 03:54 GMT
#64
I have questions about this statement of sOs part of the article:
However, his playoff performance was strong, as he got a triple kill against Samsung in Round 3. 2015 SPL was his best showing as he put up the numbers during the regular rounds, but also carried the team with two all kills against CJ and KT, taking the most wins for JA in the playoffs against nearly every team they went up against.

SPL 2013: 32-15 | 1-0 in ace matches
SPL 2014: 25-13 | 1-4 in ace matches
3x Kill Samsung: Shine, Stork, RorO


I went deeply in TL and did not find such matches. Instead, he played vs Solar (lost), Reality (won), Stork (won) and Armani (won).
Jin Air did not play vs Samsung in playoff at all. And how was it possible to make a triple kill in any Round if a player plays only 1-2 games in that one Round?

Is that a mistake then or I looked somewhere wrong?

but also carried the team with two all kills against CJ and KT, taking the most wins for JA in the playoffs against nearly every team they went up against.

Yet one more mistake (?). sOs did not make all-kill vs CJ, he just won 2 times.
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
December 28 2015 04:01 GMT
#65
On December 28 2015 12:54 Dervish19 wrote:
I have questions about this statement of sOs part of the article:
Show nested quote +
However, his playoff performance was strong, as he got a triple kill against Samsung in Round 3. 2015 SPL was his best showing as he put up the numbers during the regular rounds, but also carried the team with two all kills against CJ and KT, taking the most wins for JA in the playoffs against nearly every team they went up against.

SPL 2013: 32-15 | 1-0 in ace matches
SPL 2014: 25-13 | 1-4 in ace matches
3x Kill Samsung: Shine, Stork, RorO


I went deeply in TL and did not find such matches. Instead, he played vs Solar (lost), Reality (won), Stork (won) and Armani (won).
Jin Air did not play vs Samsung in playoff at all. And how was it possible to make a triple kill in any Round if a player plays only 1-2 games in that one Round?

Is that a mistake then or I looked somewhere wrong?

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2014_Proleague/Round_4
Moderator
Dervish19
Profile Joined December 2015
3 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-28 04:06:37
December 28 2015 04:06 GMT
#66
On December 28 2015 13:01 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2015 12:54 Dervish19 wrote:
...

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2014_Proleague/Round_4

Well, sOs played and won one game vs Armani. RoRo won vs Rogue and Stork won vs Maru. That's it, no triple kill. Or am I reading the table wrongly?
munch
Profile Joined July 2014
Mute City2363 Posts
December 28 2015 04:34 GMT
#67
On December 28 2015 13:06 Dervish19 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2015 13:01 stuchiu wrote:
On December 28 2015 12:54 Dervish19 wrote:
...

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2014_Proleague/Round_4

Well, sOs played and won one game vs Armani. RoRo won vs Rogue and Stork won vs Maru. That's it, no triple kill. Or am I reading the table wrongly?


Look at the Round 4 Playoffs match, not the round robin
WriterForm is temporary, MMA is permanent || http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/508630-article-archive
Dervish19
Profile Joined December 2015
3 Posts
December 28 2015 04:42 GMT
#68
On December 28 2015 13:34 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2015 13:06 Dervish19 wrote:
On December 28 2015 13:01 stuchiu wrote:
On December 28 2015 12:54 Dervish19 wrote:
...

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2014_Proleague/Round_4

Well, sOs played and won one game vs Armani. RoRo won vs Rogue and Stork won vs Maru. That's it, no triple kill. Or am I reading the table wrongly?


Look at the Round 4 Playoffs match, not the round robin

Ty mate, I got it!
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