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Fezvez's' Co-op guide and hero review - Page 49

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Rizare
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada593 Posts
March 07 2017 03:04 GMT
#961
Patch 3.1.1 is coming tomorrow on America servers. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20581819/

Most notable mentions are

-New Dead of Night map
-Less liberators in terran attack waves
-Masteries changed for Alarak, Kerrigan and Zagara
-Karax new lvl 15 now blocks an attack or ability that does at least 20 damage every 4 minutes
-Enemy baneling damage is back to normal. Turns out it was indeed double
-Some Stukov buildings now properly benefit from Karax's chrono field
-Can no longer abuse Zagara multiple baneling nests before 7

Beside that, no mention of Chain of Ascension 2nd attack wave bug fixed, Miner Evacuation red dot wave sometime not visible or sometime still wrong enemy race announcement on that map.
fezvez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France3021 Posts
March 07 2017 03:35 GMT
#962
Patch notes bois!

By the way, Rizare, you missed the most important update :

- The Purifier Beam is no longer transported with Nova’s units when Nova’s Tactical Airlift is used near the Purifier Beam.

Damn, my griefing potential has been halved =(
Rizare
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada593 Posts
March 07 2017 04:52 GMT
#963
On March 07 2017 12:35 fezvez wrote:
Patch notes bois!

By the way, Rizare, you missed the most important update :

- The Purifier Beam is no longer transported with Nova’s units when Nova’s Tactical Airlift is used near the Purifier Beam.

Damn, my griefing potential has been halved =(

Yeah, it sounds hilarious. I didn't put that in because it sounds so rare and not a big of an issue. Could have been useful for this week mutation.

Come to think of it, there are a lot of Stukov bug fixes but I don't play him since it's so choppy and always have a bad time with him. So maybe there are big bug fixes that are really nice but I didn't catch them.
Tohron
Profile Joined April 2010
United States135 Posts
March 07 2017 05:01 GMT
#964
Amusing detail about how the new Unity Barrier (seems to) work:

If Stukov has a Karax ally and a wave of his infested gets nuked, any infested that weren't previously hit with a 20+ damage attack would survive the nuke unscathed. This would definitely make them a great combo for Mutually Assured Destruction mutations.
Rizare
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada593 Posts
March 08 2017 03:23 GMT
#965
For Dead of Night, you only have 1 base with 9 mineral nodes and 3 gas so it can be a bit weird after being used to 2 bases-economy for so long. The map is simple but really laggy if you have an awful computer whenever it's night because of the number of infested spawned. Hunterlings are the most annoying special units since they can jump in and kill your workers easily. 1st stank appears at night 3 but it's also when the bonus objective appears which can be either top-left or bottom-right from games I played. Defend bottom-left, then also top-right for night 2 and finally you get 2 more side lanes to defend at night 3 for 4 lanes.

As for masteries, I gotta say Kerrigan cost and time reduction for researches mastery is godly in my opinion. 2nd set is now unit gas cost reduction or increase immobilization wave dmg. With 30 points, that means your stun does 200 dmg instead of 100 which is surprisingly nice. 3rd set is the research cost and time or mutating carapace mastery. With 30 pts, you get 60% reduction for ups or permanent 200 shield on Kerrigan. The reduction basically lets Kerrigan have 3/3 ups really early like Abathur.

Alarak chrono boost mastery surprised me. 1st set is between Alarak auto-attack or chrono boost. I'll say chrono boost mastery is neat for getting economy quicker and thus having all ups ready really quickly. 3rd set has been changed to overcharge or combat unit atk speed now.

No comment on Zagara since I don't play her much. I played Karax but I'm not quite sure how much of a difference his new lvl 15 really makes so I'll let someone else answer that instead.
imJealous
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1382 Posts
March 08 2017 06:41 GMT
#966
Hmm Dead of Night is interesting... It seems to get easier the longer you go? Not sure how I feel about that...
... In life very little goes right. "Right" meaning the way one expected and the way one wanted it. One has no right to want or expect anything.
Ouga
Profile Joined March 2008
Finland645 Posts
March 08 2017 07:55 GMT
#967
I did it twice, I think both times it ended during 3rd time out of base? I didn't quite get if it turns harder at any point, only the Stank was tough (killed like 20 DTs when played Vora when went full DTs) but nothing else was troublesome. Probably could push thru 2nd night to finish it too with right commanders. With mastery commanders it's too easy but then again all missions are. I hope the mutations turn hard at least.

Morales did claim you need to do x amount per night or else? Would be weird if there wasn't any sort of time limit.on it. Any experience how it goes if you don't push during days?
dacSyzygy
Profile Joined April 2015
Germany42 Posts
March 08 2017 09:37 GMT
#968
Hmm. Dead of Night feels pretty easy. The undead never ever come close to break a good base defense. Hunterlings and the Stank didn't even appear when I tried it, just Chokers, Kaboomers and Nydus Worms. But well, we cleared everything in the 3rd night...
Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
March 08 2017 12:17 GMT
#969
the mastery changes seem good, although i haven't tried them yet

but they really should raise the max level to 120 to get ppl grinding again
Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
March 08 2017 12:22 GMT
#970
but i wonder why didn' they replace the kerrigan regeneration mastery

seems pretty useless to me
Yuudachi
Profile Joined March 2017
Hong Kong4 Posts
March 08 2017 20:13 GMT
#971
Great to see the guide updated. Just a few things to add:
Raynor: The true power of this commander is definitely defending ground, especially maps like train. Get around 20 vultures and spam spider mines, there's no ground unit that can stand a chance against it. I can 1 shot the train every time after I've established an economy(6+orbitals). Just fight air with vikings or leave it to your partner.
Karax: After level 11, Karax is not bad at all in offense maps. Bring a worker, use a energizer to generate a power field then build monoliths. Since the range of monoliths are so long, the ai usually don't react to your harass and keep getting weaker. when defending waves, add some cannons and batteries in front then it is good. By the late game, your towers should be all over the map and waves are easily defended. You don't need an army at all.
Ouga
Profile Joined March 2008
Finland645 Posts
March 09 2017 04:56 GMT
#972
Dead of Night doesn't seem to have any timer. Only thing I noticed that came harder over time was the amount of Stanks. Each night there was 1 more than previous. But I only got to 3 Stanks before ally destroyed them. I didn't pay close attention but I think you had to kill one before next one would even spawn, so it doesn't really make it hard. Even that still took 41min or so and I wasn't even out of minerals yet.
fezvez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France3021 Posts
March 10 2017 13:34 GMT
#973
So, Dead of Night is okayish, a bit on the easy side, but I can't wait to see a mutation on it.

The main interesting thing is that you have 9 mineral patch and 3 gas (as opposed to 16 mineral patch and 4 gas) which gives your relatively much more gas. So Kerrigan and Karax have a easier time getting online.

On the other hand, Raynor, Zagara and Alarak float a ton of gas if you stick to normal builds (5k gas on Zagara -_-)
Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
March 14 2017 17:20 GMT
#974
i wonder why nobody's shouting out loud how awesome the new kerrigan is

she's definitely one of the strongest choices now

By the way, people mostly compare individual commanders, although it might be more accurate to compare commander pairs

Here's my ranking, what do you guys think (pls use each commander once!)?

1) kerrigan + stukov
infinite creep with kerrigan's bonus
free buffer&static defences from stukov&extreme striking power from kerrigan
2) swann + karax
reconstruction beam helps all units&structures tremendously
gas drones greatly strengthen karax, and chrono boosts greatly strengthen swann
energizers make swann's firepower devastating
3) vorazun + raynor
cloaking affects banshees, including the dusk wings
medics give the much needed healing
hyperion greatly improves corsairs& void rays
dark templars synergize with mass marines&medics very well
4) alarak + abathur
abathur gives the healing&buffer, alarak gives the ultimate firepower
havocs improve abathur's units just as good as alarak's
5) artanis + zagara
shield overcharge&guardian shell greatly improve numerous zerg, and mass frenzy greatly improves massive protoss
long range protoss synergize with melee zerg very well, and ultimate anti-ground tempests are excellently complemented by ultimate scourge/corroptor anti-air
6) just the OP nova, don't like her)
Icysoul
Profile Joined December 2007
Canada254 Posts
March 14 2017 23:59 GMT
#975
Main reason we don't rank pairs is that with high masteries, brutal can be soloed with just one commander. Theres no need for synergistic overkill when one commander is enough. Another big reason is that more often than not, at least for me, we don't have control over what the other guy plays.

I agree, Kerrigan got a massive economy boost with the new masteries. She's ramps up a lot more quickly and can now go bloodlords and not be utterly gas starved. Her weakness is still heavy air, but the enemy liberator quantity nerf helps with that. I personally already find Kerrigan very good in mutators since she can cheese many of the mutator mechanics. Also anytime you have a late game commander that you want to get online, Kerrigan can deal with the early game. I don't know if she joins the OP broken tier of Nova, Alarak, but she is getting close.
fezvez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France3021 Posts
March 15 2017 02:56 GMT
#976
Yup, Kerrigan is much better if you put everything in the economic masteries. She may be better than Zagara at carrying solo the first half of a game. She is still not completely OP, she still struggles immensely versus very big air waves.
BaneRiders
Profile Joined August 2013
Sweden3630 Posts
March 16 2017 21:44 GMT
#977
I just played Dead of the Night with a rookie Raynor on Brutal. I told him he could get extra CCs and mule away. Lo and behold, after a few nights we ran out of moneys!! I didn't think it was possible. In the end we had to throw everything at the last remaining buildings, SCVs, buckets, ice cream machines, literally everything, and we finally got it. My infested did 258k damage.
Earth, Water, Air and Protoss!
Executrix
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands36 Posts
March 17 2017 13:46 GMT
#978
I havent seen anyone talk about the new zagara change. I'm not a fan of the removal of the larvae spawn mastery since I always used this and went with 4-6 hatches and no queens for extra supply and no inject micro.

Now I'm kinda forced to either 8+ hatches (which is too much of a mineral sink) or 4 hatches+2queens (but gotta inject). I loved the oldschool mass hatchery swarm playstyle.

The new increased mass frenzy duration mastery is fun, but its really not that useful since Zagara's battles take like less than 10 seconds most of the time and everything is dead.

So, the new Zagara changes feel like quite the nerf to her. Which could be a good thing, as main Zagara player, I always felt Zagara was way too OP and quick earlygame. Slightly less now but her downside is still the same now. (issues carrying lategame due to explosive nature of units).


Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
March 17 2017 15:24 GMT
#979
well zagara's mastery for larvae overlapped with her improved injects, so in my opinion it's good that this mastery was replaced

i'm not sure i like zagara now though. it would be nice if she traded corruptors for kerrigan's mutalisks (at a decreased cost) - synergy with zergling's armor mitigation would be astonishing

furthermore, zagara might use a mastery to increase her supply cap, say by 2 or 3 per lvl

she could also use the missiles upgrade that would improve her, the queens, the crawlers, the roaches and the hunter killers

what do you guys think?

dacSyzygy
Profile Joined April 2015
Germany42 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-19 05:45:08
March 19 2017 05:43 GMT
#980
Has anyone tested how many Nighs he can survive in Night of the Dead? The amount of Stanks, Kaboomers, Chokers and Spotters gets insane after the 7th night. I had a 200 Supply of fully evolved Swarmhosts with 100 Biomass each + like 100 spines for defense and they still were able to overrun it in a single attempt (like 5-7 stanks plus a dozen of the other special units at the same time just chewed through everything ^^).

A Swann/Karax Combo should be able to last incredibly long, especially since both Swanns repairing and Karax's Repairbeam are both for free, so one don't run out of minerals for repairs.
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