EPTOn October 21 2015 10:22 Djzapz wrote:
Should Lance Armstrong be banned from buying broccoli at the supermarket?
Should Lance Armstrong be banned from buying broccoli at the supermarket?
No, but he should not be allowed to ride on a bike.
Korean forum opinions on Afreeca's reply to KeSPA - Page 4
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
No, but he should not be allowed to ride on a bike. | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On October 21 2015 13:37 T.O.P. wrote: No, but he should not be allowed to ride on a bike. I can't tell if this is serious or sarcasm. | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
On October 21 2015 13:37 T.O.P. wrote: No, but he should not be allowed to ride on a bike. A more accurate analogy would be: He can ride a bike, but he shouldn't be able to stream himself riding one (or film it and post online). | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On October 21 2015 13:40 TheWinks wrote: I can't tell if this is serious or sarcasm. Lance Armstrong should not be allowed to make money from major sports broadcasting corporation coverage of bike riding on the exact same platform that the Tours are also taking place. Which is exactly what's happening with matchfixers streaming on Afreeca when GSL is going to be broadcasted on the same platform. | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On October 21 2015 13:46 Caihead wrote: Lance Armstrong should not be allowed to make money from major sports broadcasting corporation coverage of bike riding on the exact same platform that the Tours are also taking place. Which is exactly what's happening with matchfixers streaming on Afreeca when GSL is going to be broadcasted on the same platform. The various organizations can ban him, but if he, say, makes a youtube channel and it shows him riding bikes or talking about riding bikes or whatever, then those organizations cannot and should not be able to touch him there even if Youtube becomes the platform of choice for broadcasting the Tour de France or whatever. | ||
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juvenal
2448 Posts
On October 21 2015 11:42 ArvickHero wrote: cmon lets be realistic here, it's not like Yoda or B4 are actually going to make any real money from streaming sc2 on Afreeca. They aren't popular personalities and the game they play isn't even popular on Afreeca lol this makes sense but ultimately it's a bad argument. It's all about the case law. Suppose "insert big sc2 player name" is caught match fixing next, gets banned from Afreeca because he could make loads of money off it - people will start bitching "why Yoda and B4 didn't get banned then, double standards or what?!" The reasonable reaction would be to try and come up with a definition for "well known esports personality that can realistically (how do you really know?) earn money (how much exactly?) from Afreeca streams" and you never will. ps: people should stop excusing B4 with his age, the guy is 27 years old, people raise kids at this sort of age, not take irresponsible decisions. | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On October 21 2015 13:45 phodacbiet wrote: A more accurate analogy would be: He can ride a bike, but he shouldn't be able to stream himself riding one (or film it and post online). http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/16/lance-armstrong-tour-de-france-haunt-charity-ride The horror. | ||
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juvenal
2448 Posts
On October 21 2015 14:04 T.O.P. wrote: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/16/lance-armstrong-tour-de-france-haunt-charity-ride The horror. charity is another matter completely. The point is to stop any sc2 related activity with mercenary motives. | ||
r_gg
141 Posts
On October 21 2015 12:32 Zibit wrote: So I hope this isn't too off topic to the original article, but I want to say something about the responses and the outrage. I know this probably won't be a popular opinion, and I agree with most that B4 and Yoda definitely should have known better... But, I find it kind of sickening the way that when these things happen, people are so ready to jump on the bandwagon of hurting them even more. I'm specifically addressing those who think they shouldn't make money in any way off StarCraft because they hurt the mystical, magical, super-pure "e-sports" scene. These guys are kids, and grossly underpaid kids at that. I find it a huge contradiction that while people rally to try to ban them from possibly streaming to make money in future, no one writes articles asking about the fundamental reasons this happens. People want to talk about image and integrity of having things shown on the same service as GSL. But no one wants to talk integrity of the institutions that let people like Gerrard not pay salaries and use his role to facilitate match fixing to begin with. I feel like everyone rushes to hate on these match fixers, who did do something wrong. But if this is a problem people really want to address, maybe we should be less quick to judge these players and a little more understanding and interested in why and how it's happening. After all, you don't stop it from happening by nabbing a few players who barely made enough to feed themselves, and then try to block them making money on the main skill they have. You do it by rooting out the Gerrards and the facilitators and the blackmailers and the people who threaten them... you know... THE FREAKING MOB that is implicated in the prosecutor's report. I understand that people are angry. But I specifically don't understand trying to limit their ability to go make money outside of KeSPA organized esports. I just want to know what people like Gerrard, who are supposed to be shepherds to these young kids, have to say for themselves. If YoDa and Gerrard thought even for a second about the consequences of match-fixing and how it impacted the scene back then, they wouldn't be doing what they did. No "it was for the team" isn't even an acceptable excuse because their act is what caused the scene to lose out on sponsorship and created tons of unpaid players in the first place. What they did is making things get even worse for the sake of their own interest. What are you going to do if SBENU or Hotsix decides to stop sponsoring Starcraft due to all the bad press from it? What if SpoTV decide to drop esport all together? (which is pretty much what happened back in BW incident) Sure, Kespa could try to change the prize structure, monitor the economic state of the teams, and try to enforce teams to pay better salary, but those things are something that they need to figure out in the future. What they need to do right now is to show that the industry as a whole doesn't condone the action and convince the current and future sponsors that this will never happen again. You aren't going to solve the poor economic situation of the players unless you have more sponsors to keep the scene healthy. How is Kespa going to convince an outsider that there is no more match-fixing going on when the organizer of the most prestigious tournament of the scene is openly supporting a match-fixer streaming and profiting off of the very game he tainted? That it won't happen if you treat the players well? That clearly doesn't explain how successful players like savior or yoda got evolved. Kespa needs to be firm in showing that the industry as a whole is against what happened, and it's going to be difficult to gain a sponsor's trust if they can't show that Afreeca, which is now sizable part of the scene's organization, supports their cause for a cleaner competitive scene. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
One point I haven't seen brought up is who are the kind of players who match fix? As we know, B and C teamers. These guys are likely already on small salaries and make very little or nothing from prize money. One of the only ways to make money before and after match fixing is streaming and they should not be allowed to continue this after disgracing the community. You are not stripping these players of much by taking away their programmer status because they weren't successful anyway. | ||
digmouse
China6330 Posts
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On October 21 2015 13:52 TheWinks wrote: The various organizations can ban him, but if he, say, makes a youtube channel and it shows him riding bikes or talking about riding bikes or whatever, then those organizations cannot and should not be able to touch him there even if Youtube becomes the platform of choice for broadcasting the Tour de France or whatever. Except Youtube already does takedowns at the beck and call of major corporations and other institutions. If Youtube did become the platform of choice for broadcasting you really think he wouldn't get his channel taken down? | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
They get their punishment and then they get the opportunity for rehabilitation. Life-time bans, especially in such petty crimes, are absolutely ridiculous. | ||
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juvenal
2448 Posts
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On October 21 2015 14:40 Caihead wrote: Except Youtube already does takedowns at the beck and call of major corporations and other institutions. If Youtube did become the platform of choice for broadcasting you really think he wouldn't get his channel taken down? Youtube does not do takedowns arbitrarily and organizations abusing things like DMCA to block undesirable, but not illegal, videos are doing so illegally. A good example is abusing the DMCA to takedown a TB video game review. No, I don't think they would take down his channel. Tournament organizers would have no legal right to make that demand. Get a court injunction or give it up imo. | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On October 21 2015 15:09 TheWinks wrote: Youtube does not do takedowns arbitrarily and organizations abusing things like DMCA to block undesirable, but not illegal, videos are doing so illegally. A good example is abusing the DMCA to takedown a TB video game review. No, I don't think they would take down his channel. Tournament organizers would have no legal right to make that demand. Get a court injunction or give it up imo. Might want to recheck that after TPP. | ||
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
On October 21 2015 14:58 juvenal wrote: Petty crimes, because video games are nothing serious. What kind of attitude is that - coming from an esports fan. Not petty because it's esports, but because it's small impact and little damage. We're not talking of staged finals here. Sure it's bad and you can't let it slide, but cardinal sins against esports-ness and fan feelings should not lead to draconic punishments. | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
What needs to happen with this scandal is it needs to get swept under the rug faster than Flash can blink, it needs to disappear. For sponsors, fans and the Community to keep being reminded of the matchfixing through the fixers streaming and possibly getting featured(like on twitch don't know how Afreeca works) thats super bad. Thats the kind of thing that will make sponsors disappear and the scene die down, Kespa got their heads on straight in this situation, they need to erradicate the shit out of this event or get erradicated themselves in the end. So its not about the laws, or the individual people that did wrong, its about the scene(and all the people that works in) being protected from further ripples that this could cause in the scene. If you disagree with this you obviously do not understand the effects this could potentially have on everyone that is a pro in sc2, I don't understand but I'm pretty sure Kespa understand this 100 times better than any of us lurkers. | ||
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r_gg
141 Posts
On October 21 2015 15:46 Daswollvieh wrote: Not petty because it's esports, but because it's small impact and little damage. We're not talking of staged finals here. Sure it's bad and you can't let it slide, but cardinal sins against esports-ness and fan feelings should not lead to draconic punishments. wow..... really? after seeing all that happened to Brood War from the incident? | ||
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