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On October 17 2015 07:32 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2015 06:50 Clonester wrote:On October 17 2015 06:31 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 17 2015 02:14 Clonester wrote:
With Guild Wars 2 getting a 400.000$ ESL Pro League, maybe it is also time for a SC II ESL Pro League here in Europe Unless it's online, in which case no one would care about just like ATC and SC2ITL, then it's absolutely impossible given the current state of SC2. Most teams don't even have enough members to play a team league, and the ones that do don't have them together outside of TL. Why should nobody care? Does nobody care about the over 9000 CS:GO leagues (which are all played online?) If we say, Blizzard would finance a ESL ProLeague like ArenaNet with Guildwars 2, so 400k per Season, maybe 2 Seasons a year, Teams all over Europe would invest heavy into the Scene. To get SC II pro players is not that expensive, it is online played and only the playoffs are played over a time. Bo7 ProLeague Format. Strickt play-days, penaltys for missing players and so on what makes a league professionel. It is not compareable to ATC or SC2ITL: ATC was 20k, 20 times less then the Guild Wars 2 Pro League, SC2ITL even less. And both with less strict rules, smaller finals and so on. You dont need to have your teams togeather to practice. Hell most strong CS:GO Teams just meet during bootcamps and tournaments and do not live togeather. Thats not a problem at all. It is the money that was allways missing for such a move. But money shouldnt be an option when you can share down over 600k for WCS Europe+someothers. Why would nobody watch? Because XYZ Foreigner against ABC Foreigner? They also meet at WCS and people watch it. No teams? With so much money on the line, teams could easily pick up players left and right and even give them some sort of (small payment). Companys like Valve, ArenaNet, 343Industries/Microsoft dump money after money in Leagues to obtain a healthy scene and market their games, while Blizzard was allways shy about it. Yes, they sponsort WCS with over 1M per year for the complete year: (3 Seasons WCS, GSL, SSL + Global Finals). But thats much less then other companys investet into their game per year, LoL, Dota, CS:GO (yes they have more viewers and players) but it still stands. A serious made SC II Europeen ProLeague would bring the strong structure for the foreigner, the constant money flow the foreigners would need (not only some tournamentmoney, but a possible (low) monthly income) and the practice arena with strong team structures. It was a missplay to not intro CSGO can have 9000 leagues because CSGO is over 9000 more times popular than SC2 is right now and that's just reality. WCS already costs Blizzard a lot, and Blizzard isn't going to sell $400k worth of copies extra by having a EU Proleague on top of WCS which they already invest millions into. We have to keep in mind that WCS is a marketing tool and a crutch to keep the scene alive after Blizzard realized they fucked up massively and SC2 was dying. Over half of players who buy the game never touch multiplayer, it's for the campaign alone, so I just can't see it ever happening. And especially don't compare it to LoL. LoL makes over a billion dollars are year, any money they put into their scene is negligible to them. And sadly, I don't believe teams all over Europe would invest heavily into the scene even if it did happen. C9 reportedly had plans to pick up some NA Starcraft players until they realized there were literally none worth picking up who weren't already on a team. There simply isn't enough talent in EU and NA to have more than 8 teams just like Proleague does. Even if 8 teams only had 4 players each, the bare minimum to run something like that, are there even 32 EU and NA players good enough to compete for $400k? WCS already brings money to the foreigner scene. Frankly, it brings way more than the foreign scene deserves. Ro32 at WCS gets you almost $1000 more Ro4 at GSL, despite the fact that no WCS player could ever hope to make Ro4 at GSL. And then we wonder why a guy like DRG wants to switch over hmmmmm I wonder?!
This is precisely the problem unless you win the prize money for Korean leagues is awful and people will continue to leave unless it's resolved.
For example let's look at how much herO who was the most consistent player in WCS earned this year from it:
Season 1:
GSL Ro4: $3610
SSL Ro16: $902
Season 2:
GSL Ro16: $1354
SSL Ro4: $4061
Season 3:
GSL Ro16: $1354
SSL 1st: $36099
Total earnings: $47380
Without his win he would have nkt earned much and he has to battle through the best in the world to get it.
ByuL only made around $28,000 despite he made 3 second places and one Ro8.
When a player can make $4500 just for finishing Ro32 in WCS then ofc Koreans are going to want to play in it rather than loss to the best and only earn $902.
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Sure if we look at it like that it sounds bad, but you also should not forget that these guys don't need to pay for anything really.
But yeah korea is extremely top heavy, that doesn't help.
I also forgot that WCS has a higher prize pool, kinda sad as well^^
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On October 17 2015 08:32 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Sure if we look at it like that it sounds bad, but you also should not forget that these guys don't need to pay for anything really.
progaming has a lot of cost in time; by the time retirement arrive there are adults who do not have job experience or education.
if you look at sidebar you will see progamer who are approaching their 30's and essentially begging for money while playing video game
there is every incentive to make as much money as possible for progamer, because although there are some who have exuberant amount of money to justify, even then it is still a high opportunity cost of their youth (days, months, years of sitting at computer).
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On October 17 2015 08:23 AWalker9 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2015 07:32 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 17 2015 06:50 Clonester wrote:On October 17 2015 06:31 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On October 17 2015 02:14 Clonester wrote:
With Guild Wars 2 getting a 400.000$ ESL Pro League, maybe it is also time for a SC II ESL Pro League here in Europe Unless it's online, in which case no one would care about just like ATC and SC2ITL, then it's absolutely impossible given the current state of SC2. Most teams don't even have enough members to play a team league, and the ones that do don't have them together outside of TL. Why should nobody care? Does nobody care about the over 9000 CS:GO leagues (which are all played online?) If we say, Blizzard would finance a ESL ProLeague like ArenaNet with Guildwars 2, so 400k per Season, maybe 2 Seasons a year, Teams all over Europe would invest heavy into the Scene. To get SC II pro players is not that expensive, it is online played and only the playoffs are played over a time. Bo7 ProLeague Format. Strickt play-days, penaltys for missing players and so on what makes a league professionel. It is not compareable to ATC or SC2ITL: ATC was 20k, 20 times less then the Guild Wars 2 Pro League, SC2ITL even less. And both with less strict rules, smaller finals and so on. You dont need to have your teams togeather to practice. Hell most strong CS:GO Teams just meet during bootcamps and tournaments and do not live togeather. Thats not a problem at all. It is the money that was allways missing for such a move. But money shouldnt be an option when you can share down over 600k for WCS Europe+someothers. Why would nobody watch? Because XYZ Foreigner against ABC Foreigner? They also meet at WCS and people watch it. No teams? With so much money on the line, teams could easily pick up players left and right and even give them some sort of (small payment). Companys like Valve, ArenaNet, 343Industries/Microsoft dump money after money in Leagues to obtain a healthy scene and market their games, while Blizzard was allways shy about it. Yes, they sponsort WCS with over 1M per year for the complete year: (3 Seasons WCS, GSL, SSL + Global Finals). But thats much less then other companys investet into their game per year, LoL, Dota, CS:GO (yes they have more viewers and players) but it still stands. A serious made SC II Europeen ProLeague would bring the strong structure for the foreigner, the constant money flow the foreigners would need (not only some tournamentmoney, but a possible (low) monthly income) and the practice arena with strong team structures. It was a missplay to not intro CSGO can have 9000 leagues because CSGO is over 9000 more times popular than SC2 is right now and that's just reality. WCS already costs Blizzard a lot, and Blizzard isn't going to sell $400k worth of copies extra by having a EU Proleague on top of WCS which they already invest millions into. We have to keep in mind that WCS is a marketing tool and a crutch to keep the scene alive after Blizzard realized they fucked up massively and SC2 was dying. Over half of players who buy the game never touch multiplayer, it's for the campaign alone, so I just can't see it ever happening. And especially don't compare it to LoL. LoL makes over a billion dollars are year, any money they put into their scene is negligible to them. And sadly, I don't believe teams all over Europe would invest heavily into the scene even if it did happen. C9 reportedly had plans to pick up some NA Starcraft players until they realized there were literally none worth picking up who weren't already on a team. There simply isn't enough talent in EU and NA to have more than 8 teams just like Proleague does. Even if 8 teams only had 4 players each, the bare minimum to run something like that, are there even 32 EU and NA players good enough to compete for $400k? WCS already brings money to the foreigner scene. Frankly, it brings way more than the foreign scene deserves. Ro32 at WCS gets you almost $1000 more Ro4 at GSL, despite the fact that no WCS player could ever hope to make Ro4 at GSL. And then we wonder why a guy like DRG wants to switch over hmmmmm I wonder?! This is precisely the problem unless you win the prize money for Korean leagues is awful and people will continue to leave unless it's resolved. For example let's look at how much herO who was the most consistent player in WCS earned this year from it: Season 1: GSL Ro4: $3610 SSL Ro16: $902 Season 2: GSL Ro16: $1354 SSL Ro4: $4061 Season 3: GSL Ro16: $1354 SSL 1st: $36099 Total earnings: $47380 Without his win he would have nkt earned much and he has to battle through the best in the world to get it. ByuL only made around $28,000 despite he made 3 second places and one Ro8. When a player can make $4500 just for finishing Ro32 in WCS then ofc Koreans are going to want to play in it rather than loss to the best and only earn $902.
I'd argue Rogue is more consistent, seeing as he made 5 Ro8's this year.
GSL S1: $2,256 (Ro8)
GSL S2: $2,256 (Ro8)
GSL S3: $2,256 (Ro8)
SSL S1: $1,805 (Ro8)
SSL S2: $180 (out in challenger)
SSL S3: $1,805 (Ro8)
So Rogue made $10558 on the year, or slightly less than a player who would make Ro32 at WCS Premier twice and Challenger once. Granted, Rogue still has Blizzcon, but considering he got Maru first round it'll probably only be another $5000. A guy like Kane, who made Ro8 once and 2 Ro32 at WCS has already made more than Rogue probably will.
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i do not think it would be unreasonable to say that many of the top player in korea are smart and have high mental capacity; they certainly show their ability to work hard and commit
so think about that if you envy them and think that it is good life for them. because being smart hardworking and having high mental skills could have translated to better things in reality life.
and probably more money.
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Hello this is 눈부신이메리칸 again from DCinside Starcraft Gallery.
Region Lock should be instated in WCS, definitely. It would be cool if the foreign scene realized that it is absolutely necessary at this point and "Get good" isn't really enough.
Kung Fu Cup 2015 is a pretty good example of the difference between Foreign and Korean scene right now and please don't go "Oh bly went up, we can do it too." this was like a picnic for Korean players and they didn't even practice for it. They just came back from vacation and slaughtered everyone.
The SGall community would like to express the fact that people who run off to foreign teams because they couldn't make it in Korea are not looked upon kindly, even in the Korean community. DRG is actually close to being a 1st class player, which makes the fact he is looking for easy money all the more auspicious. We want to stop Korean players who aren't any good from getting prize money they don't even deserve by being lucky in finding a foreign team.
Korea already has the GSL (Please support it guys its not doing so good these days) and the SSL, 2 premier class tourneys for WCS points, and as long as IEM and DreamHack are open to all, WCS America, at least, should be open to foreigners.
StarCraft is a game for only the best, and the Korean community wants the 'best' to come from all regions, not just from Korea. Until Amerca/EU gets the necessary infrastructure and players to compete with the Korean scene, We feel the region lock is necessary both for the Foreign players and the community.
General consensus is that the foreign scene is like the panda bear, something to care for, not to hunt down mercilessly. We want SC2 to improve in the future and getting all our 2nd and 3rd rate players eliminate foreigners in their own territory does not seem like an improvement.
However, Foreigners without much achievement who complain about Korean tier 2, tier 3 players coming into America are also not looked upon very well. We think they are also looking for easy money, like the tier 2-3 Korean players.
We understand you guys train hard as well and the infrastructure might not be as good, and eagerly await the day we can have a global slugfest 
- The DCInside Starcraft Gallery Community
http://gall.dcinside.com/board/lists/?id=starcraft_new
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the foreign scene is like the panda bear, i love it haha
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lol. You can also go the other way around and say, when the panda bear is not able to adept to the modern time, maybe it is time for him to die out like the mammoth or the saber-toothed tiger.
I would understand this topic much more for a full region lock, when GSL and SSL would widespread money in korea as WCS does. But thats not the case. Both leagues are in total arround 150k $, while WCS is alone arround 216k $, per Season. While it is true, that foreigns also need money to stay pro or to become a pro, it is the same for koreans. They need income and the need for income will allways drive them into the WCS, as there does lay "save money". Not easy money. Moving to another country and culture is never that easy. But the money is save, as you earn more in the WCS then you earn in Korea when you cant reached the toppest of the top. Not even speaking about "Code A" and "Code B", while Challangers get over 2k, Code A players get 350$.
The will allways be pressure on the korean pros to move out. Or to give up the game. So many pros, so little money. But it is not like the korean scene has more money from tournaments and the scene in korea is in a healthy state. It has its own gigantic problems and people here seem to think everything there is build out of dreams and gold.
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EPT
