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Korea (South)227 Posts
While I might sound biased, being Korean and getting free HD quality and vods, I think this move is inevitable.
While people say GSL is the most prestigious tournament in SC2, thats a thing of the past. Right now, even in the so called better production, better everything S3SL or Proleague, the korean viewership on Youtube and Naver totals just around 4~5000 viewers each, not all of them Korean, or at least that's the average viewer number I've seen so far (If I'm wrong, please correct me).
On twitch, it averages around 10,000 viewers and 15000 to 20000 in the finals or important matches. Korean viewership is really not at an all high level despite the current dip in popularity LOL has at the moment.
GOMTV needs the money, and I firmly believe that instead of crapping about why its always low quality, its a bad business model, stuff that is obvious etc we should at least pity the once greatest SC2 tournament of all time hands down and try to support it in its time of crisis.
Sure, I also dislike that there is a paywall for above MEDIUM quality, I also dislike the really awful casting Tasteosis has been showing recently. It will put off people who don't have the inclination or ability to monthly pay the amount needed.
But no-one can deny that GSL has been the longest lasting, and the most loyal and epic tournament SC2 has had in its lifespan. Its had memorable moments and glorious experiences that no other tournament has and ever will.
Lets try to save GSL one step at a time, and then after all the dust has cleared, we can start to make the steps necessary to ensure free HD quality, free vods and overall refurbishment of the tournament. We won't be able to complain about the GSL if it ceases to exist, and the prospect of perhaps NEVER being able to watch GSL again saddens me to no end.
Trust me, If Korean vods and HD quality was behind a paywall, I would be thrusting my wallet towards them.
People who can pay, lets pay instead of saying they should change for us, that their model is wrong. We know its wrong, so lets try to support them to the point where they can do things right.
Hopefully no-one bashes this post. I am in no way saying that putting a steep paywall is right. I am merely trying to say lets support GOM if they're in a shitty spot. That's what passionate fans do, right?
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Poland3764 Posts
On June 10 2015 17:35 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 17:07 Cascade wrote:On June 10 2015 16:50 Noocta wrote:On June 10 2015 16:45 Cascade wrote:
I feel it's fair. If you don't pay, why do people feel so entitled to HQ stream? >_>
. Because we're in 2015. 2015 is the year of companies not trying to earn money? 2015 is the year where you complain on the quality of products you get for free? it's a sample! Meant to make you want to subscribe! You are not a customer, you are a potential customer consuming free samples. Like those free little shampoo-samples you get! Do you complain that there is not enough shampoo in the shampoo samples because you can only wash your hair 2 times with it, not 3 as you could last year? Yeah, they get a tiny profit from the ads (unless you use ad-block, that the majority of us do I assume), but that won't be many cents per viewer. The thing is literally everyone provides high quality for free except for GSL. So yeah, I'd say it's normal that people feel entitled to have hq.
Also SC2 in LQ looks worse than SC:BW in LQ.
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On June 10 2015 17:19 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 17:04 OtherWorld wrote:
"But all the other tournaments are free!"
Yeah, maybe they don't have the attraction to get many paying viewers. As a few posters have said, GSL is the most prestigious tournament (or so many think), so many people are ready to pay to see it, even with other "lesser" tournaments available for free. Which is why this move is an option for GSL, but probably not viable for any other tournament, as very few would actually pay for it. It's not a matter of the other tournaments being nice and passionate about SC2, it's just not a good move for them to shut out free views.
Fair enough, but prestige and brand image are not infinite. If they keep on like this, will come a time when GSL will not be seen as the most prestigious SC2 tournament, but as the shitty tournament with crap quality while SSL will be all hype. They maybe gain financially from losing 100 free viewers for every new subscriber, but they certainly don't gain in prestige and image. Yeah, I can't judge myself if it is a good business move. It could be as you say that it is a profitable move short term, but not long term. Maybe it's a "ded gaem" move, trying to cash out as much as possible on their prestige before they inevitably go down? :o Oh, the conspiracy theories... Anyway, I just got a bit annoyed at all the people that behaved as if they had a say in it, as if they were paying customers that didn't get the product they paid for. Sorry.
There is one thing that should rub you the wrong way at least a little bit I think: They went out of their way to stop the English viewer base to even watch the Korean YT stream (which is easily circumvented but that's not the point). That's really pushing it.
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On June 10 2015 17:07 baiesradu wrote:
If you like the product of a company , support it.
If you expect free high quality products you are just a beggar and no business model is designed for you.
No matter the industry, people working somewhere have to make enough to make a living , bring profit to their owner or
their job would not exist .
If you are in a stage in your life where you can not afford to support the things that you love, it's ok , we have all been there,
that still does not give you the right to demand something . Appreciate the things made from passion by someone else and understand that even Teamliquid , Basetrade, GSL exist because of the people that can support it with money not with demands for something in exchange for nothing.
I think the only reason for the GSL twitch english channel is the foreign audience , which is not their main target nor their main source of income. So they could continue without it. So if you like Tastosis, wolf and you want them to continue support GSL if you can .
At least that is my opinion ..
generally people support sporting events by watching them. You can never spend a dime on the NFL but as long as youre watching it on tv and contributing to their tv ratings that is most important. GSL does not (or at least should not) depend on money from people in other countries to sustain themselves. That is a pretty terrible business model. They SHOULD be getting most of their financial support from sponsors and investors (who want ROI via viewers, which GOM is discouraging by reverting back to shit quality streams). Getting subscribers is just extra money they rake in to provide whatever services or do with as they please. I feel like the difference between providing low and medium quality isn't significant and just feels like more of a cash grab than an actual financial problem but whatever.
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On June 10 2015 17:35 Orlok wrote:
While I might sound biased, being Korean and getting free HD quality and vods, I think this move is inevitable.
While people say GSL is the most prestigious tournament in SC2, thats a thing of the past. Right now, even in the so called better production, better everything S3SL or Proleague, the korean viewership on Youtube and Naver totals just around 4~5000 viewers each, not all of them Korean, or at least that's the average viewer number I've seen so far (If I'm wrong, please correct me).
On twitch, it averages around 10,000 viewers and 15000 to 20000 in the finals or important matches. Korean viewership is really not at an all high level despite the current dip in popularity LOL has at the moment.
GOMTV needs the money, and I firmly believe that instead of crapping about why its always low quality, its a bad business model, stuff that is obvious etc we should at least pity the once greatest SC2 tournament of all time hands down and try to support it in its time of crisis.
Sure, I also dislike that there is a paywall for above MEDIUM quality, I also dislike the really awful casting Tasteosis has been showing recently. It will put off people who don't have the inclination or ability to monthly pay the amount needed.
But no-one can deny that GSL has been the longest lasting, and the most loyal and epic tournament SC2 has had in its lifespan. Its had memorable moments and glorious experiences that no other tournament has and ever will.
Lets try to save GSL one step at a time, and then after all the dust has cleared, we can start to make the steps necessary to ensure free HD quality, free vods and overall refurbishment of the tournament. We won't be able to complain about the GSL if it ceases to exist, and the prospect of perhaps NEVER being able to watch GSL again saddens me to no end.
Trust me, If Korean vods and HD quality was behind a paywall, I would be thrusting my wallet towards them.
People who can pay, lets pay instead of saying they should change for us, that their model is wrong. We know its wrong, so lets try to support them to the point where they can do things right.
Hopefully no-one bashes this post. I am in no way saying that putting a steep paywall is right. I am merely trying to say lets support GOM if they're in a shitty spot. That's what passionate fans do, right?
do you think racism could also be a problem? (see + Show Spoiler + )
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Weird that all other e-sports can provice excellent quality streams, but GSL have to charge for it.... well guess I wont be watching GSL again, dont mind to much anyway
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Russian Federation367 Posts
You know what GOM? You can bring back WoL GSL S1 quality of stream, but you cant bring back all those names, hype and diversity of a game styles. This game is not so interesting to watch it at low quality. Goodbye, your BW league died fast, now your sc2 league will die with the same rate. Hello, SPOTV, our new king!
On June 10 2015 17:35 Orlok wrote:
Hopefully no-one bashes this post. I am in no way saying that putting a steep paywall is right. I am merely trying to say lets support GOM if they're in a shitty spot. That's what passionate fans do, right?
If youre so passinate and cute: go and buy a ticket for a twitch, dont try to act like "wow if I would not be korean then I would definetly subscribe". Just go and do it, stop talking us what we should do when youre not doing the same thing.
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Goodbye GSL then.
I won't watch crappy streamquality, and I don't pay when I get FORCED to, because that is what happens here.
Tastosis alone would be worth paying. But since its PvPvPvZ again, I won't pay, I have seen enough of that.
I hope they will start casting another league soon, or the 2 casters that got me into SC2, as well as the League (GSL) will get me out of it again, since PL and GSL were the last things I was was enjoying when it came to SC2.
Since PL doesn't have the "mind mind mind" song in the middle anymore, and the passionate and wise casters got replaced by an entertaining hair-commenter that doesn't understand the game, PL lost it's charm. And now GSL.
On June 10 2015 16:00 shabby wrote:
Really don't mind this change. Always been paying for GSL, and will keep supporting. A few dollars a month to have 2 great tournaments instead of 1 is worth it imo.
I wouldn't mind it, I paid for many seasons until it was only PvPvPvP. Even though I could watch it on "High" and Live.
But I DO mind, if I get forced to pay. And that is what is basically happening here.
I dunno what Streaming in mid/high quality costs them or how it costs more, bot it sounds like an extremely foul excuse
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On June 10 2015 17:21 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 17:13 swissman777 wrote:
Imho, I can only hope that this is a good decision.
It's hard to see the actual financial situation of GOM, so I can't claim whether this is an act of desperation or cunning and arrogant display of entrepreneurship. However, usually every legitimate corporations acts desperate because they are truly desperate. They don't use cheap tricks to cash in unless they are very confident with their customer loyalty (ie youtube and maybe apple). Desperate times call for desperate and panicky measures. If you truly want GSL to continue on with its great production, you should try to pity them and help them. Or like in the real world let competition decide on who get's to stay and who doesn't. GSL has been very prestigous up to this point, but whoever offers the better product (in this case best quality for smallest investment, which clearly isn't GOM right now) gets the majority of viewership in that department.
Or pay where the quality is due. If you like SSL more, then sure, let the competition rule out the winner. However, no one should be frugal and expect good quality. If GSL can't continue with the support it has, do you think that SSL can? SSL may be offering more in terms of higher free resolution stream, but how long could it last before SSL runs out of their initial revenue made to attract customers like it is for every new entreprises?
Moreover, you must also know that once GSL goes out, a monopoly both in individual and team leagues is a terrible news for us. Spotv would then have the freedom to do whatever it pleases to a large extent.
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On June 10 2015 17:41 Rollora wrote:Goodbye GSL then. I won't watch crappy streamquality, and I don't pay when I get FORCED to, because that is what happens here. Tastosis alone would be worth paying. But since its PvPvPvZ again, I won't pay, I have seen enough of that. I hope they will start casting another league soon, or the 2 casters that got me into SC2, as well as the League (GSL) will get me out of it again, since PL and GSL were the last things I was was enjoying when it came to SC2. Since PL doesn't have the "mind mind mind" song in the middle anymore, and the passionate and wise casters got replaced by an entertaining hair-commenter that doesn't understand the game, PL lost it's charm. And now GSL. Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 16:00 shabby wrote:
Really don't mind this change. Always been paying for GSL, and will keep supporting. A few dollars a month to have 2 great tournaments instead of 1 is worth it imo. I wouldn't mind it, I paid for many seasons until it was only PvPvPvP. Even though I could watch it on "High" and Live. But I DO mind, if I get forced to pay. And that is what is basically happening here. I dunno what Streaming in mid/high quality costs them or how it costs more, bot it sounds like an extremely foul excuse
Yeah, better Tasteless who hasn't played a starcraft game in the last 5 years or Artosis who plays hearthstone than moonglade who is a former sc2 progamer and korean GM now.
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Kind of crazy when I can watch other tournaments on Azubu with the same players for free in source.
Even on twitch you can get alot of the same matchups on high for free.
Cant't blame GOM for trying to make money though.
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I'm not even sure why this is such a big issue honestly. Perhaps it speaks about the maturity level of the community that people complain about paying 5$ a month for a service as they would any other service in the world.
At least understand that people need to be compensated for work, even if you dislike GOM.
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On June 10 2015 17:41 Rollora wrote:
I wouldn't mind it, I paid for many seasons until it was only PvPvPvP.
how convenient for you that gom did this AFTER the ro16, cuz now you can blame it on protoss 
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On June 10 2015 15:58 doihy wrote:
Why are people disappointed in GSL for doing this? If viewership wasn't so low they wouldn't have to do this. And the reason viewership is so low because of blizzard's design. If anything it is blizzards fault for making GSL do this. Sometimes it feels that people who watch GSL only watch because they are fan of Starcraft- not as an esport. But if you took away the starcraft name and look at the gameplay itself even less viewers would be watching.
Its 2015 here where I am.
And it has already proven that good content and free content actually raises the viewernumbers that pay for content.
Like all those "pirates", pirating games and movies. And since that scene is so big, you know what? Legal streaming booms, torrent streaming goes back a bit, netflix and other services rise, and movies in cinema are more successful then ever before, the box office results of the most successful movies of all times show: the most successful ones were made in the years where Internet piracy was already on the rise. you can clearly see, this has an advertising effect, not a "stealing" one
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How much more money will they get from those few people that will sub now because of the low quality ? 200$? I doubt thats worth it....
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On June 10 2015 17:43 Alucen-Will- wrote:
I'm not even sure why this is such a big issue honestly. Perhaps it speaks about the maturity level of the community that people complain about paying 5$ a month for a service as they would any other service in the world.
At least understand that people need to be compensated for work, even if you dislike GOM.
So you are saying that the other tournaments runners aren't making money because they offer high quality for free. Ok. Then everyone is stupid and only GSL found the ultimate way to make big money off of tournaments.
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On June 10 2015 17:38 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 17:35 Orlok wrote:
While I might sound biased, being Korean and getting free HD quality and vods, I think this move is inevitable.
While people say GSL is the most prestigious tournament in SC2, thats a thing of the past. Right now, even in the so called better production, better everything S3SL or Proleague, the korean viewership on Youtube and Naver totals just around 4~5000 viewers each, not all of them Korean, or at least that's the average viewer number I've seen so far (If I'm wrong, please correct me).
On twitch, it averages around 10,000 viewers and 15000 to 20000 in the finals or important matches. Korean viewership is really not at an all high level despite the current dip in popularity LOL has at the moment.
GOMTV needs the money, and I firmly believe that instead of crapping about why its always low quality, its a bad business model, stuff that is obvious etc we should at least pity the once greatest SC2 tournament of all time hands down and try to support it in its time of crisis.
Sure, I also dislike that there is a paywall for above MEDIUM quality, I also dislike the really awful casting Tasteosis has been showing recently. It will put off people who don't have the inclination or ability to monthly pay the amount needed.
But no-one can deny that GSL has been the longest lasting, and the most loyal and epic tournament SC2 has had in its lifespan. Its had memorable moments and glorious experiences that no other tournament has and ever will.
Lets try to save GSL one step at a time, and then after all the dust has cleared, we can start to make the steps necessary to ensure free HD quality, free vods and overall refurbishment of the tournament. We won't be able to complain about the GSL if it ceases to exist, and the prospect of perhaps NEVER being able to watch GSL again saddens me to no end.
Trust me, If Korean vods and HD quality was behind a paywall, I would be thrusting my wallet towards them.
People who can pay, lets pay instead of saying they should change for us, that their model is wrong. We know its wrong, so lets try to support them to the point where they can do things right.
Hopefully no-one bashes this post. I am in no way saying that putting a steep paywall is right. I am merely trying to say lets support GOM if they're in a shitty spot. That's what passionate fans do, right? do you think racism could also be a problem? (see + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQk4QDjnNPA )
Last time I checked, Koreans aren't racist against Caucasians(White people).
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Korea (South)227 Posts
I'm pretty sure that racism has EXTREMELY little to do with the paywall. I can't deny that there is racism in Korea that is harsher than in some other countries, but GOM's financial troubles aren't targeting their hate for foreigners and forcing them to pay. Its safe to say that they are just in a really god-awful financial spot, and really have no choice but to reinstall the no quality but low paywall, or that they are lying and trying to squeeze out any money they can get. Out of the two, I think the former is more likely than the latter.
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Viewership going down?
Let's make the free stream unwatchable and the KR streams/vods unavailable from outside korea! That'll make more people watch GSL compared to S2SL, right?
Right? ;__;
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4713 Posts
Man, I feel really sorry for the GSL and what they seem to be forced to do and can't help but feel it goes back to when Blizzard forced the Twitch partnership down their throat, ever since its been downhill.
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EPT
