On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
When I arrive 30min (or up to my personal record - 90min) late to an exam - I pass the exam anyway because I know my shit. Well - it is how it was anyway when I still was studying.
Pretty sure you can't do that in most universities in the US. and by that I mean, I don't think professors allow you to show up late to a final exam. A regular exam throughout the semester maybe.
Weird. I mean if exam lasts 3h what's the difference? I come late 90minutes - I just have half the time to finish everything. It's not like I have any advantage because of it. Though to be fair my Math & Comp Sc. department was pretty relaxed.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
When I arrive 30min (or up to my personal record - 90min) late to an exam - I pass the exam anyway because I know my shit. Well - it is how it was anyway when I still was studying.
Pretty sure you can't do that in most universities in the US. and by that I mean, I don't think professors allow you to show up late to a final exam. A regular exam throughout the semester maybe.
Weird. I mean if exam lasts 3h what's the difference? I come late 90minutes - I just have half the time to finish everything. It's not like I have any advantage because of it. Though to be fair my Math & Comp Sc. department was pretty relaxed.
You also disturb everybody in the exam room, screw up their procedures, AND vastly increase the chances of people cheating (loads of people cheat on exams by having someone get the exam questions then posting the answers half an hour into the exam).
On February 10 2015 08:07 Dimagus wrote: As an American, regular season sports games get rescheduled because they have the time to make it up. Playoff/postseason/finals are an entirely separate matter especially when the venue is open, the field (or internet) is in game shape, the other team is there, and the fans and staff are ready.
And then there's the fact that they make a fuck ton of money broadcasting the games. So yes they want to broadcast no matter what. Kespa isn't making a ton of money from these games, so they are only interested in fairness. One team made it on time, fans showed up on time, casters and crew showed up on time. Everybody else seemed to make it there on time, just not ST-Yoe. If it is snowing in a big city like that, you have to expect that accidents are likely and give yourself a lot of extra time. Don't just leave 10 minutes early and call it good.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
LOL ?! In what world are you leaving bro ?
Are you really being serious or are you sarcastic ?
I'm serious. Nobody here would ever fail an exam because a train did arrive with about 30min delay and the student wasn't able to be there in time. Everything that's beyond the individuals power doesn't result in a punishmen and I really doubt that Switzerland is the only country where that's the case, tbh.
Although I have to admit that Switzerland might be a bit different to many other countries. Simply because if our trains are delayed (even if it's only 5-10min) everyone goes nuts.
edit: Checked a few universities around the world. Every single one had some kind of ruling for exactly these situations: If you're late to an exam because the public transport was delayed/impossible due to whatever reason, you're excused. So... I'm not sarcastic, seems to be true in many countries :-P
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
You could study wherever you want here and it's not about them catering me like a child. EVERY kind of exam would accept a delay if the reason I arrived late wasn't my bad.
And lets face it: There's no reasonable explanation to let someone fail an exam because he was late without any wrong doing. Otherwise you'd basically force anyone who takes the exam to live right around the corner. Every other way it might be impossible to arrive in time (-> 08:00 exam? Well, if the first 2 trains are fucked up, it'd be impossible to arrive in time.)
Cool, there are rules like that.
And guess what, there are rules that KeSPA and all of its teams follow. They may not be the same.
Ohh common!! I am sure the fans, the players on BOTH teams, and pretty much everyone else was more interested in having the games played than a forced forfeit. The players have put in so much time and effort into preparing and not to mention the enormous effort during the regular season. WTF Kespa. Late is late and rules are rules, but you have to look at the circumstances, that is there was an accident which the team had no control over. Could they have planned to leave super early and still get there on time? Yes. However they were also never late so there is no reason to have that much time buffer in getting to the studio. They were "only" half an hour late, a fcking swarm host game will easily drag on for additional hours, I know it's not comparing the same thing, just saying from a time perspective.
I couldn't help but wonder if that was KT, would they also get DQed? I think not since SK telecom being a big sponsor of the teams...
lets be honest guys, Kespa has always had extremely unconventional rulings and questionable DQs (PPP????) so this shouldn't be even remotely surprising.
still sucks as always though. Kespa super strict org.
On February 10 2015 09:13 Phredxor wrote: Did startale say how late it was going to make them? If it was a few hours then I think it's fair enough. That would just be unfair on JAGW.
On February 09 2015 21:37 sparklyresidue wrote: Guys it's a TV broadcast, it's pretty reasonable in the adult world to expect people to arrive within a certain time frame. Sorry if that rustles anyone's jimmies, I wanted to see the match too, but this is pretty sensible.
Can't set a precedent where it's okay to be late, even if it's your favorite Tawainese/Korean hybrid team led by Bomber himself.
This isn't like they got drunk and passed out on the subway. It was an accident. An exceptional event.
If I'm late to work because of traffic, it's still my fault, not the road's.
edit: Timely example. it's snowing here today, so I'm leaving an extra half hour early to make sure I get to work on time or early.
If I'm late to an exam at my university because of traffic, it wouldn't be my fault. Basically, they'll give me another date, have people there to observe the exam, even book a room for me. Just because of my traffic / public transport issues. They expect me to arrive 30min early (which kespa does as well) and if these 30min aren't enough because of reasons that are not in my power... well... that's accepted as an excuse.
And I'd assume thats how it's handled in almost every country in almost every organisation.
You're talking about a college exam at a college that caters to you like a child. If you're 30 minutes late to a professional exam in a situation where everyone else made it on time, they fail you and make you start over. Because professionals get there.
it would be one thing if the snow was so bad that nobody could reasonably make it to the studio. But everyone else was there - the casters, the staff, JinAir, and the fans. Only ST couldn't make it. So this is on them, not Kespa.
When I arrive 30min (or up to my personal record - 90min) late to an exam - I pass the exam anyway because I know my shit. Well - it is how it was anyway when I still was studying.
Pretty sure you can't do that in most universities in the US. and by that I mean, I don't think professors allow you to show up late to a final exam. A regular exam throughout the semester maybe.
Weird. I mean if exam lasts 3h what's the difference? I come late 90minutes - I just have half the time to finish everything. It's not like I have any advantage because of it. Though to be fair my Math & Comp Sc. department was pretty relaxed.
I've shown up late for 2 finals before. One just gave me the remainder (1.5 hr / 3 hr) and the other let me work till I finished. I think a professor is allowed to do as they please if you're late, however.
And obviously rules are there to be followed, but they are only worth having if used with common sense. Kespa clearlu expects teams to prepare for the worst (like get there 3 hours earlier than needed to be ready no matter what)
If they showed up at 7 p.m they still would be able to play. We were on the phone with them up to the 7 p.m start time and there was no way they would be able to get to nexon arena in a reasonable time. They were still very far away in traffic at the 7 p.m start time.
On February 10 2015 06:40 Gojira621 wrote: In America, and I'm assuming other places as well, if a big sporting event, even a televised one, is unable to happen due to weather or accidents or whatever, its simply rescheduled to whenever is available. Really disappointing kespa didn't want to do this and instead unfairly give a team a loss for something they had no control over. Makes me not even want to watch proleague for awhile. Bad timing considering how lacking the tourney scene is right now, the korean betting scandals, etc.
100% Agreed
It's one thing if weather etc is so bad that NOBODY can participate. (for the whole "exam thing", 3/4 of the class including the teacher are 30 min late.) However, when the weather / traffic doesn't prevent anyone else from being on time and ready then it's the "responsibility" (people don't seem to like the word 'fault') of the late party.
As a spectator I do wish this were not the case but I do respect KeSPA for sticking to their rules.
On February 10 2015 03:59 ricecake wrote: Rescheduling isn't a reasonable option because of how tightly packed everything is. Not only will it be pretty difficult to find a good time with all the other tournaments going on, that completely throws CJ and SKT T1 under the bus.
Delaying is the only potential solution (1 map / 30 mins or something) but that still isn't very fair for Jin Air and is hard on the fans. Since there was no knowledge on when ST would show up, people could be sitting around forever, and would probably mentally tax JAG enough to affect their match tonight. At some point you just have to call it.
This doesn't happen in "real" sports because the team buses get police escorts to clear the roads for them.
Not sure what country you're referring too, but in America this does not happen. Pretty much all professional basketball, football, and baseball teams will have a charter bus take them to and from the airport/hotel to the sports arena. With typically one police car/motorcycle in front and behind their vehicle. Pretty much the most minimal 'police escort' possible. The roads are most assuredly not cleared for them. The only person in America who gets the full VIP treatment is the POTUS. And possibly the VPOTUS depending on the situation. When they roll out the roads are cleared and they have a 15-20 vehicle convey.
If they showed up at 7 p.m they still would be able to play. We were on the phone with them up to the 7 p.m start time and there was no way they would be able to get to nexon arena in a reasonable time. They were still very far away in traffic at the 7 p.m start time.
Glad we have more details and the shitstorm can end now. Thanks for the info Chuddinater!
So it seems ST would be way too late and a map loss every 30min would end up in a 4-0 anyways... I hope this helps people feel less robbed.
If they showed up at 7 p.m they still would be able to play. We were on the phone with them up to the 7 p.m start time and there was no way they would be able to get to nexon arena in a reasonable time. They were still very far away in traffic at the 7 p.m start time.
Thanks for the infos! I think that it makes a lot more sense
If they showed up at 7 p.m they still would be able to play. We were on the phone with them up to the 7 p.m start time and there was no way they would be able to get to nexon arena in a reasonable time. They were still very far away in traffic at the 7 p.m start time.
This official KeSPA answer needs to be in the the OP to stop the bashing against KeSPA please.
I know people like to back KeSPA because it has rules, but rules are here for a reason.
If they showed up at 7 p.m they still would be able to play. We were on the phone with them up to the 7 p.m start time and there was no way they would be able to get to nexon arena in a reasonable time. They were still very far away in traffic at the 7 p.m start time.
Listen, I know you have rules set in place for many different reasons and for many different situations. Whether it's to prevent people from taking advantage of situations, ruining program schedules, ensuring that they fulfill commitments etc.
However, please take into consideration whom it is your organization actually serves and then enlighten me as to how the decision to DQ them, instead of rescheduling, is a service to your consumer?
Note: if you are unaware of who your consumer is, who your organization actually serves, and who your organization relies upon most to keep your organization in business, its ME and everyone like me. We are called fans. We are the people who watch the teams and players you govern.
Another Note: In my opinion, I see that no rules here were intentionally broken. Things happen and you need an appropriate solution for when these things occur. If you are a straight "by the rule" type of organization and you have no free-thinkers / decision-makers to use their head in situations like this, criticism and bad publicity will follow KeSPA forever. You can't just go by the rules word for word until something happens that falls clearly and morally outside the spirit and intent of your rule book; then MAYBE make an amendment to said rule for future issues. Correct the issue when it happens, set a precedent, and then go in and create an amendment to the rule. I know how organizations like yours work and all it takes is someone with a brain and the right job title to make the right decision.
EPT
