On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Not really. You are talking about the group of people that translate a traffic accident as entertainment in their empty lives, and lack the empathy to do nothing else but laugh.
eSport is not built on drama, but the games themselves. If not, it lacks quality in itself. Players should be treated with some respect, not targeted as fun humor.
I agree its not build on drama, but the drama will attract more attention. When rivalries and grudges occur, the games become more entertaining.
Dana White understands how the drama can bring in more viewers; he signed Brock Lesnar for that very reason. Of course, the fighter/player has to have the skills necessary to enter the octagon/sit behind the screen.
I enjoy watching Naniwa because he is a beast at this game, but also because I want to see someone stomp him.
Is drama necessary to garner more attention? No. Will drama garner more attention? Yes.
I am not saying Starcraft 2 needs players like Naniwa and Idra, but when we do have these kinds of characters it makes the games more enjoyable.
To Naniwa, I wish you the best of luck, and I truly hope you make it to Premier league. I also hope that you get floor stomped in the Challenger league.
You are the only player that I will cheer and jeer. Keep on doing what you are doing. I am glad you are back.
But I am sure Brock Lesnar agrees to the fact that he is brought in as entertainment, as that element is part of MMA/Wrestling.
These are young kids, playing games, and the media are trying to target them with labels of hero/villain is just wrong, and shows more how desperate the state of Starcraft must be in. It is about branding him in an image, so they can sell their stuff, rather than sell him as a good player, which he is.
If drama garner more attention, then it tells the story that the game can't sell itself, or the audience need something not related to the game to be peaked. This is not a circus, but eSports. If TL wants to beat this drum, they have lost the path in my eyes.
Yea, sure, because we humans are robots who enjoy objective, standard, and impersonal games, and never get out of the frame. I assume you play macro, right?
SC2 is the game itself, and everything that surround it, including its players and their personalities. If you do not like that way, you better reconsider your enjoyment of an individual sport like SC2.
I am sorry to interrupt your notion of the game that is not related to the game, as being human. It seems most of my post went over your head, though. Naniwa didn't ask to satisfy your thirst for things not related to the game, just because you feel more human that way. I would call you something else, though.
I enjoy eSports very much without drama, or stigmatizing players in order to enjoy it. Not because I am a robot, but because I am interested the games in eSport. I think players should be respected, rather than being targets of hate, and I think that part would serve TL better. What you enjoy on your own is up to you. This is not about you, or what you do, but a critique of the article.
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Not really. You are talking about the group of people that translate a traffic accident as entertainment in their empty lives, and lack the empathy to do nothing else but laugh.
eSport is not built on drama, but the games themselves. If not, it lacks quality in itself. Players should be treated with some respect, not targeted as fun humor.
I agree its not build on drama, but the drama will attract more attention. When rivalries and grudges occur, the games become more entertaining.
Dana White understands how the drama can bring in more viewers; he signed Brock Lesnar for that very reason. Of course, the fighter/player has to have the skills necessary to enter the octagon/sit behind the screen.
I enjoy watching Naniwa because he is a beast at this game, but also because I want to see someone stomp him.
Is drama necessary to garner more attention? No. Will drama garner more attention? Yes.
I am not saying Starcraft 2 needs players like Naniwa and Idra, but when we do have these kinds of characters it makes the games more enjoyable.
To Naniwa, I wish you the best of luck, and I truly hope you make it to Premier league. I also hope that you get floor stomped in the Challenger league.
You are the only player that I will cheer and jeer. Keep on doing what you are doing. I am glad you are back.
But I am sure Brock Lesnar agrees to the fact that he is brought in as entertainment, as that element is part of MMA/Wrestling, while Naniwa does not.
These are young kids, playing games, and the media are trying to target them with labels of hero/villain is just wrong, as it only there to bring hateful notions to players, and shows more how desperate the state of Starcraft must be in. It is about branding him in an image, so they can sell their stuff, rather than sell him as a good player, which he is.
If drama garner more attention, then it tells the story that the game can't sell itself, or the audience need something not related to the game to be peaked. This is not a circus, but eSports. If TL wants to beat this drum, they have lost the path in my eyes.
I don't understand your post. My example of Brock was to show how talent plus personality can really bring in the ratings. The element of entertainment is a core aspect of any content, and whether you are entertained because of the players skills, or their personality, it doesn't make much difference.
Sure, Naniwa doesn't play this game for the purpose of entertaining the audience. He is playing it for himself, but it's that exact attitude that makes the audience even more involved.
And I don't think stuchiu's article demonized him into a villain or martyred him into a hero, because the audience is already polarized about Naniwa anyways, and this article only reminded us of who exactly is Naniwa.
Drama garners more attention, but its never the focus. The focus will always be skill, and nothing will take that away. Do you honestly think we would care about Naniwa if he wasn't a great player? As I said before, Naniwa brings talent and ego, but he would be just another Avilo if he didn't have the talent.
TL can write content with any angle they so wish, and perhaps they are using Naniwa's image to sell better content, but they never lied about anything. In my opinion, all they did was state the facts, and let the reader form their own opinion, which is responsible journalism.
If you feel TL has strayed from some holy honor of esports, then that is your respectful right, but I like my steak with sauce.
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Not really. You are talking about the group of people that translate a traffic accident as entertainment in their empty lives, and lack the empathy to do nothing else but laugh.
eSport is not built on drama, but the games themselves. If not, it lacks quality in itself. Players should be treated with some respect, not targeted as fun humor.
I agree its not build on drama, but the drama will attract more attention. When rivalries and grudges occur, the games become more entertaining.
Dana White understands how the drama can bring in more viewers; he signed Brock Lesnar for that very reason. Of course, the fighter/player has to have the skills necessary to enter the octagon/sit behind the screen.
I enjoy watching Naniwa because he is a beast at this game, but also because I want to see someone stomp him.
Is drama necessary to garner more attention? No. Will drama garner more attention? Yes.
I am not saying Starcraft 2 needs players like Naniwa and Idra, but when we do have these kinds of characters it makes the games more enjoyable.
To Naniwa, I wish you the best of luck, and I truly hope you make it to Premier league. I also hope that you get floor stomped in the Challenger league.
You are the only player that I will cheer and jeer. Keep on doing what you are doing. I am glad you are back.
But I am sure Brock Lesnar agrees to the fact that he is brought in as entertainment, as that element is part of MMA/Wrestling.
These are young kids, playing games, and the media are trying to target them with labels of hero/villain is just wrong, and shows more how desperate the state of Starcraft must be in. It is about branding him in an image, so they can sell their stuff, rather than sell him as a good player, which he is.
If drama garner more attention, then it tells the story that the game can't sell itself, or the audience need something not related to the game to be peaked. This is not a circus, but eSports. If TL wants to beat this drum, they have lost the path in my eyes.
Yea, sure, because we humans are robots who enjoy objective, standard, and impersonal games, and never get out of the frame. I assume you play macro, right?
SC2 is the game itself, and everything that surround it, including its players and their personalities. If you do not like that way, you better reconsider your enjoyment of an individual sport like SC2.
I am sorry to interrupt your notion of the game that is not related to the game, as being human. It seems most of my post went over your head, though. Naniwa didn't ask to satisfy your thirst for things not related to the game, just because you feel more human that way. I would call you something else, though.
I enjoy eSports very much without drama, or stigmatizing players in order to enjoy it. Not because I am a robot, but because I am interested the games in eSport. I think players should be respected, rather than being targets of hate, and I think that part would serve TL better. What you enjoy on your own is up to you. This is not about you, or what you do, but a critique of the article.
TL writers did not ask to satisfy your own tastes about SC2, nor they will concur with your critiques or feedbacks. As do the most part of us.
You are free to leave TL if you want; it is your right. But please, we do not need your senseless feedback.
In other news: I believe we only need ~600 more pages in this thread for it to become eligable for its own Liquid` sub-site, next to Liquid`Dota and Liquid`Legends!
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Not really. You are talking about the group of people that translate a traffic accident as entertainment in their empty lives, and lack the empathy to do nothing else but laugh.
eSport is not built on drama, but the games themselves. If not, it lacks quality in itself. Players should be treated with some respect, not targeted as fun humor.
I agree its not build on drama, but the drama will attract more attention. When rivalries and grudges occur, the games become more entertaining.
Dana White understands how the drama can bring in more viewers; he signed Brock Lesnar for that very reason. Of course, the fighter/player has to have the skills necessary to enter the octagon/sit behind the screen.
I enjoy watching Naniwa because he is a beast at this game, but also because I want to see someone stomp him.
Is drama necessary to garner more attention? No. Will drama garner more attention? Yes.
I am not saying Starcraft 2 needs players like Naniwa and Idra, but when we do have these kinds of characters it makes the games more enjoyable.
To Naniwa, I wish you the best of luck, and I truly hope you make it to Premier league. I also hope that you get floor stomped in the Challenger league.
You are the only player that I will cheer and jeer. Keep on doing what you are doing. I am glad you are back.
But I am sure Brock Lesnar agrees to the fact that he is brought in as entertainment, as that element is part of MMA/Wrestling.
These are young kids, playing games, and the media are trying to target them with labels of hero/villain is just wrong, and shows more how desperate the state of Starcraft must be in. It is about branding him in an image, so they can sell their stuff, rather than sell him as a good player, which he is.
If drama garner more attention, then it tells the story that the game can't sell itself, or the audience need something not related to the game to be peaked. This is not a circus, but eSports. If TL wants to beat this drum, they have lost the path in my eyes.
Yea, sure, because we humans are robots who enjoy objective, standard, and impersonal games, and never get out of the frame. I assume you play macro, right?
SC2 is the game itself, and everything that surround it, including its players and their personalities. If you do not like that way, you better reconsider your enjoyment of an individual sport like SC2.
Well, there are people who watch the game because they want to watch the game. Personally I don't care which player is playing, as long as the games are good. Good games for me means long games with lots of action all over the map, or games in which players use some unconventional tactics and unit combinations.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
+1 for Kane here. At the end it just a video game and how you treat people is what really matters.
Lol. For people who depend on money they get from playing "just a game" I think it is more than that. Football is just a game as well... but average player earns more money than a good doctor and everyone takes is seriously, especially the players.
OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
On January 20 2015 18:09 -Archangel- wrote: And no matter what people say, Sc2 has become a boring place after Idra, Stephano and Nani quit.
So so true... the quality of games is still high but I don't think I've truly been able to get behind any current player. Bring back Nani, Idra, Steph etc... they put the personality and the story into the scene, things which have been steadily declining for a while now.
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
He has the right to behave as he wants, and haters have the right to hate him.
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Exactly. There's nothing special or good about being who you want to be if you're not really a good person. Some people (me included ) need to be who they truely are less often
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Exactly. There's nothing special or good about being who you want to be if you're not really a good person. Some people (me included ) need to be who they truely are less often
No, because if you're not who you are, you can never learn.
Only if you're truly yourself, you will learn why your behavior needs to change if it does. If you're always faking in fear others may react negatively, always playing safe - you will never be a useful person for this planet.
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Ok, I didn't know he did those things - wishing cancer and losing limbs...... hm
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Exactly. There's nothing special or good about being who you want to be if you're not really a good person. Some people (me included ) need to be who they truely are less often
No, because if you're not who you are, you can never learn.
Only if you're truly yourself, you will learn why your behavior needs to change if it does. If you're always faking in fear others may react negatively, always playing safe - you will never be a useful person for this planet.
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Ok, I didn't know he did those things - wishing cancer and losing limbs...... hm
Yes that's a mistake.
Who are you to decide whom others are and aren't? Can't we decide it ourselves? Isn't who we are always changing?
Instead of this essentialism, let's try to be kind and fair to each other. What matters is not who we are, but what we do.
EPT
) need to be who they truely are less often
