10 months. It has been 10 long months since the last time Naniwa stepped into the booth to play SC2. And in that time SC2 had become a much calmer, more peaceful place. But the second Naniwa decided to enter competitive play once more, the entire EU community erupted as player after player after player wanted to take him out, including: Dayshi, Kas, Happy, MarineLord, Miniraiser, Nerchio, Kane. And what caused it all was Naniwa exercising his right to force the Russian stream off the game as they had been broadcasting without delay. In typical Naniwa fashion, he made certain to accuse Happy of stream watching before kicking them out.
As has become tradition, the Live Report thread ended with fans and haters slinging mud at each other until it all ended with a hail of bans. Nothing had changed. Even 10 months since his departure from SC2, Naniwa’s mere participation had led to more EU rivalries in one day than the entirety of 2013.
Naniwa himself incites conflict.
Even before his infamous incident at IEM Katowice, Naniwa was a nexus of constant arguing. Take for instance his road to Blizzcon in 2013. During that year, Zealousy released an article previewing Naniwa at Blizzcon. In it he described Naniwa as the most polarizing figure to have ever played the game. One that had always played the game for himself above all else. In typical fashion, posters got angry at the assessment, calling it negative, false, biased or shit. Naniwa then went on to almost quote Zealousy verbatim in his Blizzcon preview video where he said, "I came here with my own strength, and I will continue to play for myself. Whether you cheer for me or not, that's up to you, of course. I appreciate it but, you're not the reason I play the game. I play because I like to win."
This anecdote is a microcosm of the entire dynamic of SC2’s relationship with Naniwa. No statement made about Naniwa, no matter how true, can be made without an entire discourse that ends with both sides flaming each other. Those who hate Naniwa constantly bring up his attitude problems, his flaming and his unprofessional behavior. Those who love him either shrug off those antics or revel in them. In either case both his fans and his haters cannot deny his skill in the game. It is a common turn of phrase when discussing Naniwa to hear something along the lines of, “Despite what he does, I love Naniwa because he wins.” Or “If only Naniwa would stop doing this shit, I’d be a fan.”
The arguments about Naniwa hinge on two major aspects. His skill in the game, and his actions outside of it. And a majority of fans focus on either one or the other as though they were two separate, distinct parts. I believe this is a flawed simplification of who or what Naniwa is.
It is Naniwa’s ego that drives everything above all else. It is why he is one of the most intensely competitive players in the scene. It is also why he is a terrible loser prone to flaming people for his losses. It is why he can go practice upwards to 14 hours a day on ladder or drop the game for months before coming back. It is the drive, the ego, the ambition, the relentless pursuit of being the best that makes Naniwa both an icon of SC2 and its pariah.
That drive is what forced Naniwa to push through and get 2nd at MLG Providence in 2011. It was also that same drive that made him feel utterly repulsed and disgusted at being forced to play a meaningless game against Nestea. That drive forced him to go to Korea and try to become the best and led to his consecutive Ro8 finishes in Code S. That drive is also what led him to scream in the parking lot after his loss to Mvp and then accuse Polt and ST of leaking replays.
For every pro SC2 player, every victory or loss is keenly felt (unless you’re Taeja or Life who don’t seem to give a fuck). Every victory is an affirmation of your skill, your time, you work, your everything. Every loss is a condemnation. A mark of shame that reaches into your chest and boils over as the rage, the shame, the hatred, the anger, the disgust, the repulsion overcomes and overwhelms you in waves. These feelings are something every competitive player has felt at some point in their career. The biggest difference between Naniwa and the rest of the SC2 players is he can’t contain it. He cannot put on a public persona for his fans. He loves his fans, but in the end he plays for himself. So when he loses he finds excuses, he flames, he rages, he talks shit, or he forfeits one of the largest tournaments of the year after 1 game due to soundproofing issues.
As to the truth of the situation we will almost certainly never know. And the truth of the matter is that it doesn’t matter. Because this was just another incident of Naniwa being who he is. A force of competitive will that has simultaneously created some of the best and some of the worst moments in SC2 history. One whose ego, drive, ambition, and will has forced him atop the SC2 elite class with equal amounts of praise and derision. That is what Naniwa is. To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws is to deny Naniwa his humanity, the source of what has pushed him so far. To ignore his skill and focus on his failings and unending drama he creates is to ignore the burning competitive spirit that defines Starcraft 2 competition which Naniwa exemplifies.
You can say many things about Naniwa. He is a Champion and a rager, he is a hero and a villain, an icon and a pariah. But what you cannot say is Naniwa is a fake. A hand crafted personality that is put on when he has to deal with the fans or the public. Naniwa is who he is. He never pretended to be otherwise whether it be fighting Life to the death at IEM NY, pulling the probes against Nestea, dancing his zealots in front of MC to only die to DTs, raging at Tefel as the worth player on earht, or forfeiting Katowice. Naniwa is Naniwa for better and for worse and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
NaNiwa is the villain this game needs. I think he's a massive tool but I am cheering for him to succeed because ultimately that will be good for the growth of the game.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
+1 for Kane here. At the end it just a video game and how you treat people is what really matters.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
Well, you're being a bad person and a bad player, where does it leave you?
I'm all for good behavior, but I honestly never thought Naniwa's antics were that bad...I'm glad he's back, mostly because he's a karking good Protoss player. Good for him.
On January 18 2015 14:20 Legio wrote: So why do all these pros come out of the woodwork to pick a fight with Naniwa? What does that tell us about them?
They are jelly of Naniwa and his achievements. They never wanted him to come back, because it reminds people of what they could be as a foreigner.
Hahaha. What's even funny was that I actually wrote article about NaNiwa because I thought Zealously was a bit too negative with his depiction, and one guy on reddit accidentally titled my article as the trademarked "Road to BlizzCon". I treated NaNiwa more as a person who made a lot of sacrifices because of his determination to win (more like a misunderstood sociopath).
But even then, I actually wish he would stay retired because of numerous cases of being unprofessional...
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
+1 for Kane here. At the end it just a video game and how you treat people is what really matters.
Treating people nicely is far less important than succeeding at something, anything, even if it is "just a video game," because the people will forget you and the game will fade into obscurity, but the accomplishment will always remain.
Edit: Also I think it says something about Kane that he passive aggressively insults Naniwa without provocation in his own spotlight thread.
On January 18 2015 14:20 Legio wrote: So why do all these pros come out of the woodwork to pick a fight with Naniwa? What does that tell us about them?
Actually, Naniwa during his retirement came out of the woodwork to pick a fight with kane.
NaNiwa (I love how he has undefined in his name) is more accurately a martyr and a pariah. Despite his actions proving that he cares for nobody other than himself, there will always be a few stubborn sycophants of his trying to elevate him beyond being a very good foreigner. He was a good player. He is a shitty person. What is more important now?
On January 18 2015 14:20 Legio wrote: So why do all these pros come out of the woodwork to pick a fight with Naniwa? What does that tell us about them?
Actually, Naniwa during his retirement came out of the woodwork to pick a fight with kane.
And what about the other 6-7 pros mentioned in the article that want to pick a fight with Naniwa? What about Kane soliciting money on twitter to have Nerchio attack Naniwa in real life?
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
+1 for Kane here. At the end it just a video game and how you treat people is what really matters.
No, sorry. At the end of the day being happy is what matters. I'd rather be an asshole with hundreds of thousands of dollars and the knowledge that I'm one of the best competitors in my area, than bee a poor, bitter nerd who feels the need to rage at people for their precieved lack of "professionalism" out of what I can only assume is jealousy.
Great article. I love what Naniwa does to the starcraft scene.
On January 18 2015 14:33 Circumstance wrote: Under an hour, two pages, a spillover onto Twitter, and a grudge between two players already in Challenger.
Damn if the dude doesn't get people's attention.
Exactly! NaNi saving eSports. Rivalries galore! WE NEEDED THIS.
God I love Naniwa because of the emotion he brings out of other people. He says stuff that most people should (with any shred of maturity) just brush off and ignore. But it is his skill and his achievement in SC2 that make people even more pissed. And I fucking love it lol. Rivalry and player-to-player trashtalk is what makes things interesting, and Naniwa brings the dash of salt to a much needed stale professional community.
I fucking love this drama because, in the end, its completely meaningless.
On January 18 2015 14:20 Legio wrote: So why do all these pros come out of the woodwork to pick a fight with Naniwa? What does that tell us about them?
Actually, Naniwa during his retirement came out of the woodwork to pick a fight with kane.
And what about the other 6-7 pros mentioned in the article that want to pick a fight with Naniwa? What about Kane soliciting money on twitter to have Nerchio attack Naniwa in real life?
Naniwa accused Happy of stream watching. Naniwa called Dayshi Dayshit. Kas and Marinelord wanted to teach him a lesson for insulting their friends. He called them ladder heroes with no achevements. There was that entire Miniraiser on Nation Wars drama thing I dont even want to touch. Nerchio is Nerchio. Then he also insulted every SEA player who played in the SEA qualifier.
Don't know about Kane asking Nerchio to attack Naniwa, but knowing what I know about Nerchio, I'm almost certain that's a joke.
I'm pretty neutral about all this though. I'm neither for nor against Naniwa.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
+1 for Kane here. At the end it just a video game and how you treat people is what really matters.
Let's be honest here. If you dedicate your childhood and young adult life to playing a video game competitively over a career that actually makes a serious difference in the world, you probably give more of a shit about winning than how you treat others. Though, it's not like you cannot be a nice person while playing a competitive game, either. Sheth was pretty nice.
When it comes to a competitive game, it's the competition that matters. I come to see impressive shit... Not to see Gandhi in gold-league.
On January 18 2015 14:20 Legio wrote: So why do all these pros come out of the woodwork to pick a fight with Naniwa? What does that tell us about them?
Actually, Naniwa during his retirement came out of the woodwork to pick a fight with kane.
And what about the other 6-7 pros mentioned in the article that want to pick a fight with Naniwa? What about Kane soliciting money on twitter to have Nerchio attack Naniwa in real life?
Naniwa accused Happy of stream watching. Naniwa called Dayshi Dayshit. Kas and Marinelord wanted to teach him a lesson for insulting their friends. He called them ladder heroes with no achevements. There was that entire Miniraiser on Nation Wars drama thing I dont even want to touch. Nerchio is Nerchio. Then he also insulted every SEA player who played in the SEA qualifier.
Don't know about Kane asking Nerchio to attack Naniwa, but knowing what I know about Nerchio, I'm almost certain that's a joke.
I'm pretty neutral about all this though. I'm neither for nor against Naniwa.
Dude, Kane has solicited $800 on Twitter so far for Nerchio to attack Naniwa in real life. If you call that a joke, then why is Naniwas "picking a fight" not jokes?
On January 18 2015 14:20 Legio wrote: So why do all these pros come out of the woodwork to pick a fight with Naniwa? What does that tell us about them?
Actually, Naniwa during his retirement came out of the woodwork to pick a fight with kane.
And what about the other 6-7 pros mentioned in the article that want to pick a fight with Naniwa? What about Kane soliciting money on twitter to have Nerchio attack Naniwa in real life?
Naniwa accused Happy of stream watching. Naniwa called Dayshi Dayshit. Kas and Marinelord wanted to teach him a lesson for insulting their friends. He called them ladder heroes with no achevements. There was that entire Miniraiser on Nation Wars drama thing I dont even want to touch. Nerchio is Nerchio. Then he also insulted every SEA player who played in the SEA qualifier.
Don't know about Kane asking Nerchio to attack Naniwa, but knowing what I know about Nerchio, I'm almost certain that's a joke.
I'm pretty neutral about all this though. I'm neither for nor against Naniwa.
Dude, Kane has solicited $800 on Twitter so far for Nerchio to attack Naniwa in real life. If you call that a joke, then why is Naniwas "picking a fight" not jokes?
Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
On January 18 2015 14:20 Legio wrote: So why do all these pros come out of the woodwork to pick a fight with Naniwa? What does that tell us about them?
Actually, Naniwa during his retirement came out of the woodwork to pick a fight with kane.
And what about the other 6-7 pros mentioned in the article that want to pick a fight with Naniwa? What about Kane soliciting money on twitter to have Nerchio attack Naniwa in real life?
Naniwa accused Happy of stream watching. Naniwa called Dayshi Dayshit. Kas and Marinelord wanted to teach him a lesson for insulting their friends. He called them ladder heroes with no achevements. There was that entire Miniraiser on Nation Wars drama thing I dont even want to touch. Nerchio is Nerchio. Then he also insulted every SEA player who played in the SEA qualifier.
Don't know about Kane asking Nerchio to attack Naniwa, but knowing what I know about Nerchio, I'm almost certain that's a joke.
I'm pretty neutral about all this though. I'm neither for nor against Naniwa.
Dude, Kane has solicited $800 on Twitter so far for Nerchio to attack Naniwa in real life. If you call that a joke, then why is Naniwas "picking a fight" not jokes?
lol orginizing a fight isn't "attacking"
SetGuitarsToKill @SetGuitars2Kill 5h5 hours ago
@mYiKane Shit, I'd throw in some money too. Might wanna open up a kickstarter or something for that.
On January 18 2015 14:20 Legio wrote: So why do all these pros come out of the woodwork to pick a fight with Naniwa? What does that tell us about them?
Actually, Naniwa during his retirement came out of the woodwork to pick a fight with kane.
And what about the other 6-7 pros mentioned in the article that want to pick a fight with Naniwa? What about Kane soliciting money on twitter to have Nerchio attack Naniwa in real life?
Naniwa accused Happy of stream watching. Naniwa called Dayshi Dayshit. Kas and Marinelord wanted to teach him a lesson for insulting their friends. He called them ladder heroes with no achevements. There was that entire Miniraiser on Nation Wars drama thing I dont even want to touch. Nerchio is Nerchio. Then he also insulted every SEA player who played in the SEA qualifier.
Don't know about Kane asking Nerchio to attack Naniwa, but knowing what I know about Nerchio, I'm almost certain that's a joke.
I'm pretty neutral about all this though. I'm neither for nor against Naniwa.
Dude, Kane has solicited $800 on Twitter so far for Nerchio to attack Naniwa in real life. If you call that a joke, then why is Naniwas "picking a fight" not jokes?
lol orginizing a fight isn't "attacking"
SetGuitarsToKill @SetGuitars2Kill 5h5 hours ago
@mYiKane Shit, I'd throw in some money too. Might wanna open up a kickstarter or something for that.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I for one couldn't be happier that Naniwa is back. Can't wait to have someone with some emotion to cheer for who can actually win.
On January 18 2015 14:20 Legio wrote: So why do all these pros come out of the woodwork to pick a fight with Naniwa? What does that tell us about them?
Actually, Naniwa during his retirement came out of the woodwork to pick a fight with kane.
And what about the other 6-7 pros mentioned in the article that want to pick a fight with Naniwa? What about Kane soliciting money on twitter to have Nerchio attack Naniwa in real life?
Naniwa accused Happy of stream watching. Naniwa called Dayshi Dayshit. Kas and Marinelord wanted to teach him a lesson for insulting their friends. He called them ladder heroes with no achevements. There was that entire Miniraiser on Nation Wars drama thing I dont even want to touch. Nerchio is Nerchio. Then he also insulted every SEA player who played in the SEA qualifier.
Don't know about Kane asking Nerchio to attack Naniwa, but knowing what I know about Nerchio, I'm almost certain that's a joke.
I'm pretty neutral about all this though. I'm neither for nor against Naniwa.
Dude, Kane has solicited $800 on Twitter so far for Nerchio to attack Naniwa in real life. If you call that a joke, then why is Naniwas "picking a fight" not jokes?
lol orginizing a fight isn't "attacking"
SetGuitarsToKill @SetGuitars2Kill 5h5 hours ago
@mYiKane Shit, I'd throw in some money too. Might wanna open up a kickstarter or something for that.
I'd be a funny fight.
It would be hilarious, until we all realized that Nerchio is a string bean who would just snap.
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
Don't bother dude. Naniwa is absolutely flawless and perfect in their eyes. Every single thing he's ever done is justifiable in some crazy way. And he never loses.
On January 18 2015 14:20 Legio wrote: So why do all these pros come out of the woodwork to pick a fight with Naniwa? What does that tell us about them?
A lot, a lot a lot a lot.
I wish more people were aware of the image they present. It's like any big drama, if there's people acting a bit not quite 100% that's one thing. It's obvious that they're giving off some kind of image, and likely don't care. But the people coming out in opposition to it often look like the bigger idiots in my eyes.
There is very little Naniwa can do to damage his reputation in my eyes (interpret that how you will). But everyone else seems so eager to drag their own reputation through the mud when talking about Nani.
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Snute too, Snute's probably above most of them even.
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
Thank you for coming back naniwa. TL news articles and LR threads just got alot more fun to browse!!!
If you win WCS make sure you thank the important people like the guy who put delay onto the stream, the power company for not having a blackout, your opponent for sucking. Things like that
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I think at some point, a lot of Koreans have feared Snute. Some have probably feared Vortix Sen and Scarlett at points in at least some matchups too, though not the tip top ones obviously
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
Sen, Taiwan Open. Only foreigner Premier Tournament Champ since the dawn of WCS.
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I think at some point, a lot of Koreans have feared Snute. Some have probably feared Vortix Sen and Scarlett at points in at least some matchups too, though not the tip top ones obviously
There's a chasm between IdrA, Stephano, HuK, and Naniwa and the rest of the foreigners. Except for Stephano, they had good showings in the GSL. Stephano stands out for how he completely dominated the foreign scene, but he was towards retirement when he did a stint in Korea.
Or maybe we'd like to forget what happens to the rest. Anyone remember Leenock vs. Thorzain?
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all?
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I think at some point, a lot of Koreans have feared Snute. Some have probably feared Vortix Sen and Scarlett at points in at least some matchups too, though not the tip top ones obviously
There's a chasm between IdrA, Stephano, HuK, and Naniwa and the rest of the foreigners. Except for Stephano, they had good showings in the GSL. Stephano stands out for how he completely dominated the foreign scene, but he was towards retirement when he did a stint in Korea.
Or maybe we'd like to forget what happens to the rest. Anyone remember Leenock vs. Thorzain?
Any player who's peak was 2010 or early 2011 had a much easier time being dominant than you could in today's game which has way more talent all around. Idra and Huk mainly, but those others to an extent had better timing than anything else.
On January 18 2015 15:18 ZigguratOfUr wrote: It'll be interesting to see how far he'll go in WCS. It'll be really frickin entertaining to see how many feuds he can start along the way.
He might not even get that far. Kane is running a Twitter campaign now to have him DQ'ed by Blizzard.
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I dunno about Idra man. I mean, he's beat a few Koreans, but I wouldn't say he's ever been a top-tier player in SC2 (or in BW, but he was for some time the best foreigner in BW). I suppose MMA did fear him enough that he killed his own CC, though.
On January 18 2015 15:18 ZigguratOfUr wrote: It'll be interesting to see how far he'll go in WCS. It'll be really frickin entertaining to see how many feuds he can start along the way.
He might not even get that far. Kane is running a Twitter campaign now to have him DQ'ed by Blizzard.
If Blizzard/WCS has to have a bunch of rallying pros to be able to make a decision, then the decision shouldn't be made. Tournament organizers need to have some balls and stand by their decisions.
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all?
Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation.
Sorry to go off-topic from the drama, but can we talk just a bit about nanis sc2 form? Is he as good as before? Then we can continue with the personal insults and drama please.
I think people are just hungry for drama. Nothing Naniwa has ever done has struck me as over the top. Nani brings passion back into the scene. Whether you hate him or love him, you're going to watch his games.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
I'd rather be an irrelevant fanboy then have no success in SC2...
but i guess you have become accustomed to that position....
I'd rather also be an irrelevant fanboy then make lame videos of myself petting myself.
yea... im good with where im at
you on the other hand. Keep on qualifying for challenger. And if you want a piece of this Fanboy all you gotta do is msg
On January 18 2015 15:18 ZigguratOfUr wrote: It'll be interesting to see how far he'll go in WCS. It'll be really frickin entertaining to see how many feuds he can start along the way.
He might not even get that far. Kane is running a Twitter campaign now to have him DQ'ed by Blizzard.
Won't happen. Worse Blizzard will do is fine him, I don't think even that. I guess since its Naniwa, he might ragequit SCII because of the fine, and claim its unfair and that Kane should be fined for his other Twitter comments, but I doubt it.
On January 18 2015 15:25 Cascade wrote: Sorry to go off-topic from the drama, but can we talk just a bit about nanis sc2 form? Is he as good as before? Then we can continue with the personal insults and drama please.
We haven't seen much of his play, but he hasn't practised for a while so he's certainly not at his former level at the peak of his form. However, due to that his form may increase dramatically as we approach the WCS season, so there's really no way to know. Personally I don't think he'll make it far, but its really up in the air.
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all?
Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation.
Vortix was more consistent than idra was in a more competitive time period for a longer period of time. I respect his multiple top 8 finishes from the latter end of 2012 to the end of 2014 more than Idra's reputation as a great Zerg in the early 2010-2011 period and MLG runs.
And Thorzain's reputation was as good as Idra's during his prime. He was respected by Koreans for his methodical builds, compositions and ideas. Slayers greatly respected his play and MMA and him talked about strategy fairly often. His prime was from latter half 2011 to halfway 2012, but his strategic innovations on TvP play were extremely important and he was Naniwa's rival during that entire era for a reason with both going even in maps the entire way. Oh he also won Stockholm in 2012.
And "players who Koreans feared" is fairly intangible. And yes, Vortix and Thorzain did succeed to some extent against highest level competition.
On January 18 2015 15:25 Cascade wrote: Sorry to go off-topic from the drama, but can we talk just a bit about nanis sc2 form? Is he as good as before? Then we can continue with the personal insults and drama please.
Well, no one actually knows Naniwa's current state. From the looks of it, he only participated in the third qualifier for WCS EU, and he made it through in that one time. He beat Space Marine, Mana, Hanfy, and Happy -- mostly players who ended up qualifying eventually. He looked quite solid versus those players. Does he look as good as before? Well, depends on what stage of before you look at. Does he look like a top 8 GSL player? No, of course not. But he does look very solid, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him beat Nerchio.
For reference, Nerchio beat Tefel, lost to Dayshi, beat Complain, lost to Ptit Drogo, lost to some guy named Miszu, lost to fraer, beat ZhuGeLiang, beat Complain (again), and beat Space Marine. He qualified on his 5th qualifier versus Naniwa's 1st qualifier.
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all?
Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation.
Thorzain is easily up there with the best foreigners. Winning TSL3 and an offline premiere (DH) with Koreans in it is nothing to scoff at. He had his share of other good performances against Koreans as well, such as when he almost beat DRG in DH Valencia.
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all?
Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation.
Vortix was more consistent than idra was in a more competitive time period for a longer period of time. I respect his multiple top 8 finishes from the latter end of 2012 to the end of 2014 more than Idra's reputation as a great Zerg in the early 2010-2011 period and MLG runs.
And Thorzain's reputation was as good as Idra's during his prime. He was respected by Koreans for his methodical builds, compositions and ideas. Slayers greatly respected his play and MMA and him talked about strategy fairly often. His prime was from latter half 2011 to halfway 2012, but his strategic innovations on TvP play were extremely important and he was Naniwa's rival during that entire era for a reason with both going even in maps the entire way. Oh he also won Stockholm in 2012.
And "players who Koreans feared" is fairly intangible. And yes, Vortix and Thorzain did succeed to some extent against highest level competition.
I didn't say "highest level competition." I said "at the highest level," which means IN KOREA... you seem to have amnesia about IdrA winning an IEM too. All I can gather from this is that you haven't been watching SC2 as long as I have, given how you discount pre-patch WoL performances, or how you forget just how IdrA and HuK stood above the rest back then. Micro has gotten a bit better and the maps have become more balanced, but the game hasn't changed that much. The idea that Vortix can be compared to IdrA is laughable. Vortix literally never won a thing of significance.
On January 18 2015 15:42 lichter wrote: I like how everyone neglected Sen in this argument, just like always.
Only foreigner to win a Premier Tournament in the WCS era, guys
can't argue against that
Homefield advantage + underwhelming competition + few terrans when terrans dominated = unimpressive. I'm happy for Sen, but a lone tournament victory does not measure up to what the other guys I mentioned did. No clue why Taiwan Open was given Premier status even. Sen belongs in the next tier of foreigners with Scarlett, Snute, and Thorzain.
On January 18 2015 15:25 Cascade wrote: Sorry to go off-topic from the drama, but can we talk just a bit about nanis sc2 form? Is he as good as before? Then we can continue with the personal insults and drama please.
I think he looked kind of rough around the edges. Definitely not in shape to start killing Koreans, I felt like he was simply waiting out Happy, and hoping his control would win him a decisive engagement. But even when Naniwa did win engagements, he didn't pounce on them for the kill like you see Koreans doing.
In terms of macro and micro, he was top shelf foreigner level for sure. He is not going to make mistakes or get stressed out, but he was vulnerable against Happy in game one. His main was getting dropped over and over.
He seems to be content to play with an economy deficit for some reason. I'm not sure if that is confidence, or simply his style of protoss.
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all?
Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation.
Vortix was more consistent than idra was in a more competitive time period for a longer period of time. I respect his multiple top 8 finishes from the latter end of 2012 to the end of 2014 more than Idra's reputation as a great Zerg in the early 2010-2011 period and MLG runs.
And Thorzain's reputation was as good as Idra's during his prime. He was respected by Koreans for his methodical builds, compositions and ideas. Slayers greatly respected his play and MMA and him talked about strategy fairly often. His prime was from latter half 2011 to halfway 2012, but his strategic innovations on TvP play were extremely important and he was Naniwa's rival during that entire era for a reason with both going even in maps the entire way. Oh he also won Stockholm in 2012.
And "players who Koreans feared" is fairly intangible. And yes, Vortix and Thorzain did succeed to some extent against highest level competition.
I didn't say "highest level competition." I said "at the highest level," which means IN KOREA... you seem to have amnesia about IdrA winning an IEM too. All I can gather from this is that you haven't been watching SC2 as long as I have, given how you discount pre-patch WoL performances, or how you forget just how IdrA and HuK stood above the rest back then. Micro has gotten a bit better and the maps have become more balanced, but the game hasn't changed that much. The idea that Vortix can be compared to IdrA is laughable. Vortix literally never won a thing of significance.
pre-patch WoL? The game where InControl was a top 4 MLG player and no Korean actually played?
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all?
Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation.
Vortix was more consistent than idra was in a more competitive time period for a longer period of time. I respect his multiple top 8 finishes from the latter end of 2012 to the end of 2014 more than Idra's reputation as a great Zerg in the early 2010-2011 period and MLG runs.
And Thorzain's reputation was as good as Idra's during his prime. He was respected by Koreans for his methodical builds, compositions and ideas. Slayers greatly respected his play and MMA and him talked about strategy fairly often. His prime was from latter half 2011 to halfway 2012, but his strategic innovations on TvP play were extremely important and he was Naniwa's rival during that entire era for a reason with both going even in maps the entire way. Oh he also won Stockholm in 2012.
And "players who Koreans feared" is fairly intangible. And yes, Vortix and Thorzain did succeed to some extent against highest level competition.
I didn't say "highest level competition." I said "at the highest level," which means IN KOREA... you seem to have amnesia about IdrA winning an IEM too. All I can gather from this is that you haven't been watching SC2 as long as I have, given how you discount pre-patch WoL performances, or how you forget just how IdrA and HuK stood above the rest back then. Micro has gotten a bit better and the maps have become more balanced, but the game hasn't changed that much. The idea that Vortix can be compared to IdrA is laughable. Vortix literally never won a thing of significance.
You're making multiple fallacious arguments. And even more ad hominem attacks as time goes on. At this point, no argument I make no matter how cogent or factual will convince you otherwise. May as well stop here.
On January 18 2015 14:57 pigmanbear wrote: [quote] It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all?
Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation.
Vortix was more consistent than idra was in a more competitive time period for a longer period of time. I respect his multiple top 8 finishes from the latter end of 2012 to the end of 2014 more than Idra's reputation as a great Zerg in the early 2010-2011 period and MLG runs.
And Thorzain's reputation was as good as Idra's during his prime. He was respected by Koreans for his methodical builds, compositions and ideas. Slayers greatly respected his play and MMA and him talked about strategy fairly often. His prime was from latter half 2011 to halfway 2012, but his strategic innovations on TvP play were extremely important and he was Naniwa's rival during that entire era for a reason with both going even in maps the entire way. Oh he also won Stockholm in 2012.
And "players who Koreans feared" is fairly intangible. And yes, Vortix and Thorzain did succeed to some extent against highest level competition.
I didn't say "highest level competition." I said "at the highest level," which means IN KOREA... you seem to have amnesia about IdrA winning an IEM too. All I can gather from this is that you haven't been watching SC2 as long as I have, given how you discount pre-patch WoL performances, or how you forget just how IdrA and HuK stood above the rest back then. Micro has gotten a bit better and the maps have become more balanced, but the game hasn't changed that much. The idea that Vortix can be compared to IdrA is laughable. Vortix literally never won a thing of significance.
pre-patch WoL? The game where InControl was a top 4 MLG player and no Korean actually played?
Yea, when IdrA was the most consistent foreigner in Korea, living there and doing well in Code S. But cherry-pick and believe whatever you want, I'm done trying to teach history to a bunch of people who probably didn't watch Foxer.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all?
Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation.
Vortix was more consistent than idra was in a more competitive time period for a longer period of time. I respect his multiple top 8 finishes from the latter end of 2012 to the end of 2014 more than Idra's reputation as a great Zerg in the early 2010-2011 period and MLG runs.
And Thorzain's reputation was as good as Idra's during his prime. He was respected by Koreans for his methodical builds, compositions and ideas. Slayers greatly respected his play and MMA and him talked about strategy fairly often. His prime was from latter half 2011 to halfway 2012, but his strategic innovations on TvP play were extremely important and he was Naniwa's rival during that entire era for a reason with both going even in maps the entire way. Oh he also won Stockholm in 2012.
And "players who Koreans feared" is fairly intangible. And yes, Vortix and Thorzain did succeed to some extent against highest level competition.
I didn't say "highest level competition." I said "at the highest level," which means IN KOREA... you seem to have amnesia about IdrA winning an IEM too. All I can gather from this is that you haven't been watching SC2 as long as I have, given how you discount pre-patch WoL performances, or how you forget just how IdrA and HuK stood above the rest back then. Micro has gotten a bit better and the maps have become more balanced, but the game hasn't changed that much. The idea that Vortix can be compared to IdrA is laughable. Vortix literally never won a thing of significance.
pre-patch WoL? The game where InControl was a top 4 MLG player and no Korean actually played?
Yea, when IdrA was the most consistent foreigner in Korea, living there and doing well in Code S. But cherry-pick and believe whatever you want, I'm done trying to teach history to a bunch of people who probably didn't watch Foxer.
Oh shit name dropping obscure players like Foxer, this guy is serious.
On January 18 2015 14:20 Legio wrote: So why do all these pros come out of the woodwork to pick a fight with Naniwa? What does that tell us about them?
Actually, Naniwa during his retirement came out of the woodwork to pick a fight with kane.
On January 18 2015 15:05 pigmanbear wrote: [quote] "Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all?
Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation.
Vortix was more consistent than idra was in a more competitive time period for a longer period of time. I respect his multiple top 8 finishes from the latter end of 2012 to the end of 2014 more than Idra's reputation as a great Zerg in the early 2010-2011 period and MLG runs.
And Thorzain's reputation was as good as Idra's during his prime. He was respected by Koreans for his methodical builds, compositions and ideas. Slayers greatly respected his play and MMA and him talked about strategy fairly often. His prime was from latter half 2011 to halfway 2012, but his strategic innovations on TvP play were extremely important and he was Naniwa's rival during that entire era for a reason with both going even in maps the entire way. Oh he also won Stockholm in 2012.
And "players who Koreans feared" is fairly intangible. And yes, Vortix and Thorzain did succeed to some extent against highest level competition.
I didn't say "highest level competition." I said "at the highest level," which means IN KOREA... you seem to have amnesia about IdrA winning an IEM too. All I can gather from this is that you haven't been watching SC2 as long as I have, given how you discount pre-patch WoL performances, or how you forget just how IdrA and HuK stood above the rest back then. Micro has gotten a bit better and the maps have become more balanced, but the game hasn't changed that much. The idea that Vortix can be compared to IdrA is laughable. Vortix literally never won a thing of significance.
pre-patch WoL? The game where InControl was a top 4 MLG player and no Korean actually played?
Yea, when IdrA was the most consistent foreigner in Korea, living there and doing well in Code S. But cherry-pick and believe whatever you want, I'm done trying to teach history to a bunch of people who probably didn't watch Foxer.
Oh shit name dropping obscure players like Foxer, this guy is serious.
Guess we all better sit back and let the wisdom drop
To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws is to deny Naniwa his humanity,
10000000000000000000000000000% On point! Best article on TL for the entire duration of SC2 so far. Only other article that is compatible to the level of epic-ness that is this article, would be Naniwa's "temporary retirement" article.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
Kane sounds pretty salty right now :\ must be stressing over the fact that he has to play qualifiers over and over again... btw Kane the fact that you're insulting people for liking a personality other than you, kind of contradicts yourself proclaimed title of a "good person" or to "be[come] a good person".
I for one certainly appriciate the fact that Naniwa speaks his mind; I am much too simple a man for conceit, intrigues and public relations-approved communication.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
in other words, Kane thinks everyone who ISN'T making money from the scene, "irrelevant fanboys." Seriously, fuck this guy. Your motherfucking pay cheque is based at some point on our attention and willingness to donate to you.
How come Kane is salty? He use to harass everyone on the NA ladder back when he was just an average GM. I use to watch IdrA/huk/incontrol stream back in the day, and Kane would annoy/snipe/bm all day lol.
I'm glad Naniwa is coming back, despite his attitude, he is a good player with many achievements in his career.
On January 18 2015 15:05 pigmanbear wrote: [quote] "Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all?
Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation.
Vortix was more consistent than idra was in a more competitive time period for a longer period of time. I respect his multiple top 8 finishes from the latter end of 2012 to the end of 2014 more than Idra's reputation as a great Zerg in the early 2010-2011 period and MLG runs.
And Thorzain's reputation was as good as Idra's during his prime. He was respected by Koreans for his methodical builds, compositions and ideas. Slayers greatly respected his play and MMA and him talked about strategy fairly often. His prime was from latter half 2011 to halfway 2012, but his strategic innovations on TvP play were extremely important and he was Naniwa's rival during that entire era for a reason with both going even in maps the entire way. Oh he also won Stockholm in 2012.
And "players who Koreans feared" is fairly intangible. And yes, Vortix and Thorzain did succeed to some extent against highest level competition.
I didn't say "highest level competition." I said "at the highest level," which means IN KOREA... you seem to have amnesia about IdrA winning an IEM too. All I can gather from this is that you haven't been watching SC2 as long as I have, given how you discount pre-patch WoL performances, or how you forget just how IdrA and HuK stood above the rest back then. Micro has gotten a bit better and the maps have become more balanced, but the game hasn't changed that much. The idea that Vortix can be compared to IdrA is laughable. Vortix literally never won a thing of significance.
pre-patch WoL? The game where InControl was a top 4 MLG player and no Korean actually played?
Yea, when IdrA was the most consistent foreigner in Korea, living there and doing well in Code S. But cherry-pick and believe whatever you want, I'm done trying to teach history to a bunch of people who probably didn't watch Foxer.
Oh shit name dropping obscure players like Foxer, this guy is serious.
Can't tell if that was sarcasm or you're just a dim-witted Zerg player like most of them out there. If you don't remember, Foxer stands for Fake-Boxer, a.k.a. MVP.MarineKing. I guess he has "fallen off" a bit since WoL days, so maybe you calling him an "obscure player" kinda fit. But, like I said, unless you're "sarcastic" on the "name dropping"-comment, you have just proved me right.
P.S. at this point saying you're sarcastic just makes you look like dim-witted liar, sorry you can't win. You play Zerg :\
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all?
Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation.
Vortix was more consistent than idra was in a more competitive time period for a longer period of time. I respect his multiple top 8 finishes from the latter end of 2012 to the end of 2014 more than Idra's reputation as a great Zerg in the early 2010-2011 period and MLG runs.
And Thorzain's reputation was as good as Idra's during his prime. He was respected by Koreans for his methodical builds, compositions and ideas. Slayers greatly respected his play and MMA and him talked about strategy fairly often. His prime was from latter half 2011 to halfway 2012, but his strategic innovations on TvP play were extremely important and he was Naniwa's rival during that entire era for a reason with both going even in maps the entire way. Oh he also won Stockholm in 2012.
And "players who Koreans feared" is fairly intangible. And yes, Vortix and Thorzain did succeed to some extent against highest level competition.
I didn't say "highest level competition." I said "at the highest level," which means IN KOREA... you seem to have amnesia about IdrA winning an IEM too. All I can gather from this is that you haven't been watching SC2 as long as I have, given how you discount pre-patch WoL performances, or how you forget just how IdrA and HuK stood above the rest back then. Micro has gotten a bit better and the maps have become more balanced, but the game hasn't changed that much. The idea that Vortix can be compared to IdrA is laughable. Vortix literally never won a thing of significance.
pre-patch WoL? The game where InControl was a top 4 MLG player and no Korean actually played?
Yea, when IdrA was the most consistent foreigner in Korea, living there and doing well in Code S. But cherry-pick and believe whatever you want, I'm done trying to teach history to a bunch of people who probably didn't watch Foxer.
Oh shit name dropping obscure players like Foxer, this guy is serious.
Can't tell if that was sarcasm or you're just a dim-witted Zerg player like most of them out there. If you don't remember, Foxer stands for Fake-Boxer, a.k.a. MVP.MarineKing. I guess he has "fallen off" a bit since WoL days, so maybe you calling him an "obscure player" kinda fit. But, like I said, unless you're "sarcastic" on the "name dropping"-comment, you have just proved me right.
P.S. at this point saying you're sarcastic just makes you look like dim-witted liar, sorry you can't win. You play Zerg :\
¨Talking about pre-patch wol is kinda stupid tho. Even BitByBit got top 4 (?) in gsl at the time.
I'll probably get a ban for this (which I gladly accept), but after working in the corporate sector for about 10 years, my opinion about Naniwa is this:
He's a passive-aggressive piece of shit, and in ANY other "professional" environment, he'd been fired many times over a LONG time ago... Employers DO NOT tolerate unprofessional behavior, and rightly so!
Naniwa is a stupid kid who has much to learn, not just about SC2
On January 18 2015 14:20 Legio wrote: So why do all these pros come out of the woodwork to pick a fight with Naniwa? What does that tell us about them?
Actually, Naniwa during his retirement came out of the woodwork to pick a fight with kane.
Is this really an article that is only about Naniwa? Is the SC2 scene weird to the point where a player can have the most unprofessional possible behavior and still have an article only about him? As Kane said, how about making an article about Nerchio or about all the respectful, professional, non-drama mongering pro gamers out there (instead of calling them some random "qualifier hero")?
hehe drama. Regardless whether someone is a Nani fan or a hater, still gotta admit that he gets the views. The first SCII article that I've read in ages and I agree with the overall point of it.
On January 18 2015 16:52 OtherWorld wrote: Is this really an article that is only about Naniwa? Is the SC2 scene weird to the point where a player can have the most unprofessional possible behavior and still have an article only about him? As Kane said, how about making an article about Nerchio or about all the respectful, professional, non-drama mongering pro gamers out there (instead of calling them some random "qualifier hero")?
Players being extremely unprofessional and getting articles about only them as a result is extremely common in sports; I don't know what you're talking about. Plus writing articles about random pros isn't as interesting.
On January 18 2015 16:44 RevTiberius wrote: I'll probably get a ban for this (which I gladly accept), but after working in the corporate sector for about 10 years, my opinion about Naniwa is this:
He's a passive-aggressive piece of shit, and in ANY other "professional" environment, he'd been fired many times over a LONG time ago... Employers DO NOT tolerate unprofessional behavior, and rightly so!
Naniwa is a stupid kid who has much to learn, not just about SC2
User was temp banned for this post.
Martyr ban: making life easy for TL moderators for years.
On January 18 2015 16:41 Ej_ wrote: pigmanbear confirmed the SC2 specialist because he knows what MK's original handle in SC2 was
edit: LOL that post above me
MarineKing's original handle was Boxer, Foxer is just a nickname; don't think he ever actually used it.
Not that this is in the slightest relevant to anything at all.
this. Boxer used to have the manofpower or somethng handle back when rumours came out that he was trying the game then once he started playing it, the fans changed MKP's handle from boxer to foxer (fake boxer) into MKP eventually (info for those who weren't present at the time ^^).
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all?
Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation.
Vortix was more consistent than idra was in a more competitive time period for a longer period of time. I respect his multiple top 8 finishes from the latter end of 2012 to the end of 2014 more than Idra's reputation as a great Zerg in the early 2010-2011 period and MLG runs.
And Thorzain's reputation was as good as Idra's during his prime. He was respected by Koreans for his methodical builds, compositions and ideas. Slayers greatly respected his play and MMA and him talked about strategy fairly often. His prime was from latter half 2011 to halfway 2012, but his strategic innovations on TvP play were extremely important and he was Naniwa's rival during that entire era for a reason with both going even in maps the entire way. Oh he also won Stockholm in 2012.
And "players who Koreans feared" is fairly intangible. And yes, Vortix and Thorzain did succeed to some extent against highest level competition.
I didn't say "highest level competition." I said "at the highest level," which means IN KOREA... you seem to have amnesia about IdrA winning an IEM too. All I can gather from this is that you haven't been watching SC2 as long as I have, given how you discount pre-patch WoL performances, or how you forget just how IdrA and HuK stood above the rest back then. Micro has gotten a bit better and the maps have become more balanced, but the game hasn't changed that much. The idea that Vortix can be compared to IdrA is laughable. Vortix literally never won a thing of significance.
pre-patch WoL? The game where InControl was a top 4 MLG player and no Korean actually played?
Yea, when IdrA was the most consistent foreigner in Korea, living there and doing well in Code S. But cherry-pick and believe whatever you want, I'm done trying to teach history to a bunch of people who probably didn't watch Foxer.
Oh shit name dropping obscure players like Foxer, this guy is serious.
Can't tell if that was sarcasm or you're just a dim-witted Zerg player like most of them out there. If you don't remember, Foxer stands for Fake-Boxer, a.k.a. MVP.MarineKing. I guess he has "fallen off" a bit since WoL days, so maybe you calling him an "obscure player" kinda fit. But, like I said, unless you're "sarcastic" on the "name dropping"-comment, you have just proved me right.
P.S. at this point saying you're sarcastic just makes you look like dim-witted liar, sorry you can't win. You play Zerg :\
Can't tell if serious or troll.. Need swag bro in here to fill me in.
On January 18 2015 16:41 Ej_ wrote: pigmanbear confirmed the SC2 specialist because he knows what MK's original handle in SC2 was
edit: LOL that post above me
MarineKing's original handle was Boxer, Foxer is just a nickname; don't think he ever actually used it.
Not that this is in the slightest relevant to anything at all.
this. Boxer used to have the manofpower or somethng handle back when rumours came out that he was trying the game then once he started playing it, the fans changed MKP's handle from boxer to foxer (fake boxer) into MKP eventually (info for those who weren't present at the time ^^).
I still don't get why folks in this community get upset when players trash talk or "missbehave" as this community puts it. It's like none of you ever watched sports or been apart of the entertainment industry. It's like common among professional athletes to have drama, trash talk, stir the pot to make things interesting.
It's so silly reading peoples comments on how everyone should behave like they are bankers or in the office handling clients all day. You guys are silly.
At the end of the day Esports is apart of the entertainment industry, are you not entertained?
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all?
Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation.
Vortix was more consistent than idra was in a more competitive time period for a longer period of time. I respect his multiple top 8 finishes from the latter end of 2012 to the end of 2014 more than Idra's reputation as a great Zerg in the early 2010-2011 period and MLG runs.
And Thorzain's reputation was as good as Idra's during his prime. He was respected by Koreans for his methodical builds, compositions and ideas. Slayers greatly respected his play and MMA and him talked about strategy fairly often. His prime was from latter half 2011 to halfway 2012, but his strategic innovations on TvP play were extremely important and he was Naniwa's rival during that entire era for a reason with both going even in maps the entire way. Oh he also won Stockholm in 2012.
And "players who Koreans feared" is fairly intangible. And yes, Vortix and Thorzain did succeed to some extent against highest level competition.
I didn't say "highest level competition." I said "at the highest level," which means IN KOREA... you seem to have amnesia about IdrA winning an IEM too. All I can gather from this is that you haven't been watching SC2 as long as I have, given how you discount pre-patch WoL performances, or how you forget just how IdrA and HuK stood above the rest back then. Micro has gotten a bit better and the maps have become more balanced, but the game hasn't changed that much. The idea that Vortix can be compared to IdrA is laughable. Vortix literally never won a thing of significance.
pre-patch WoL? The game where InControl was a top 4 MLG player and no Korean actually played?
Yea, when IdrA was the most consistent foreigner in Korea, living there and doing well in Code S. But cherry-pick and believe whatever you want, I'm done trying to teach history to a bunch of people who probably didn't watch Foxer.
Oh shit name dropping obscure players like Foxer, this guy is serious.
Can't tell if that was sarcasm or you're just a dim-witted Zerg player like most of them out there. If you don't remember, Foxer stands for Fake-Boxer, a.k.a. MVP.MarineKing. I guess he has "fallen off" a bit since WoL days, so maybe you calling him an "obscure player" kinda fit. But, like I said, unless you're "sarcastic" on the "name dropping"-comment, you have just proved me right.
P.S. at this point saying you're sarcastic just makes you look like dim-witted liar, sorry you can't win. You play Zerg :\
Thx for the comic relief bro. Even after your seemingly hateful and angry edit, I feel you. I know deeeeeeeep down that you knew that the guy stuchis was talking to was acting like a bitter fool and thus posted your first post as a comic distraction from the hate, and then followed up with your "hateful" edit to continue the joke by any means necessary.
Don't worry, I never thought you sucked at getting sarcasm and made a fool of yourself twice over in one post. Props to you man.
Continuing on, pretty sad day seeing this nani kid back in SC2. It does point out how many sc2 fans are bad people inside though! Although this was known beforehand anyways...
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
Right, I left HuK out, but he's borderline. Had Jinro competed longer in Korea he might belong. The rest aren't close. When I talk about Naniwa, IdrA, Stephano, and (possibly) HuK, I'm talking about foreigners who have succeeded to some extent at the highest level against good completition. Players who Koreans feared. We'll see if Naniwa can bring it back to that now.
For somebody who writes so much about SC2, you have a distorted view of the game's history.
I don't think I have a distorted view of SC2 at all?
Evidently you do, if you think that Vortix or Thorzain remotely belong in this conversation.
Vortix was more consistent than idra was in a more competitive time period for a longer period of time. I respect his multiple top 8 finishes from the latter end of 2012 to the end of 2014 more than Idra's reputation as a great Zerg in the early 2010-2011 period and MLG runs.
And Thorzain's reputation was as good as Idra's during his prime. He was respected by Koreans for his methodical builds, compositions and ideas. Slayers greatly respected his play and MMA and him talked about strategy fairly often. His prime was from latter half 2011 to halfway 2012, but his strategic innovations on TvP play were extremely important and he was Naniwa's rival during that entire era for a reason with both going even in maps the entire way. Oh he also won Stockholm in 2012.
And "players who Koreans feared" is fairly intangible. And yes, Vortix and Thorzain did succeed to some extent against highest level competition.
I didn't say "highest level competition." I said "at the highest level," which means IN KOREA... you seem to have amnesia about IdrA winning an IEM too. All I can gather from this is that you haven't been watching SC2 as long as I have, given how you discount pre-patch WoL performances, or how you forget just how IdrA and HuK stood above the rest back then. Micro has gotten a bit better and the maps have become more balanced, but the game hasn't changed that much. The idea that Vortix can be compared to IdrA is laughable. Vortix literally never won a thing of significance.
pre-patch WoL? The game where InControl was a top 4 MLG player and no Korean actually played?
Yea, when IdrA was the most consistent foreigner in Korea, living there and doing well in Code S. But cherry-pick and believe whatever you want, I'm done trying to teach history to a bunch of people who probably didn't watch Foxer.
Oh shit name dropping obscure players like Foxer, this guy is serious.
Can't tell if that was sarcasm or you're just a dim-witted Zerg player like most of them out there. If you don't remember, Foxer stands for Fake-Boxer, a.k.a. MVP.MarineKing. I guess he has "fallen off" a bit since WoL days, so maybe you calling him an "obscure player" kinda fit. But, like I said, unless you're "sarcastic" on the "name dropping"-comment, you have just proved me right.
P.S. at this point saying you're sarcastic just makes you look like dim-witted liar, sorry you can't win. You play Zerg :\
So you are saying zerg is weak and zerg players only win because of skill? P.S. What was the point that he proved right in the first place :D
On January 18 2015 16:52 OtherWorld wrote: Is this really an article that is only about Naniwa? Is the SC2 scene weird to the point where a player can have the most unprofessional possible behavior and still have an article only about him? As Kane said, how about making an article about Nerchio or about all the respectful, professional, non-drama mongering pro gamers out there (instead of calling them some random "qualifier hero")?
Players being extremely unprofessional and getting articles about only them as a result is extremely common in sports; I don't know what you're talking about. Plus writing articles about random pros isn't as interesting.
Except that in sports, unprofessional players are not the only ones to get articles about them. They also get articles about them because of their results, their showman behavior, a memorable moment of the year, a recovery after an accident (ok this one is uncommon in eSports), etc.
On January 18 2015 16:52 OtherWorld wrote: Is this really an article that is only about Naniwa? Is the SC2 scene weird to the point where a player can have the most unprofessional possible behavior and still have an article only about him? As Kane said, how about making an article about Nerchio or about all the respectful, professional, non-drama mongering pro gamers out there (instead of calling them some random "qualifier hero")?
Players being extremely unprofessional and getting articles about only them as a result is extremely common in sports; I don't know what you're talking about. Plus writing articles about random pros isn't as interesting.
Except that in sports, unprofessional players are not the only ones to get articles about them. They also get articles about them because of their results, their showman behavior, a memorable moment of the year, a recovery after an accident (ok this one is uncommon in eSports), etc.
Naniwa is obviously a big deal in the StarCraft community. Him qualifying for WCS is a huge storyline and the idea that he shouldn't be written about unless they write an article for everyone is absurd. You don't have to agree or condone with his behavior to understand this. Obviously plenty of people care about him. I for one thing think he was way over the line for his comment about Kane. However try telling a sports newspaper they shouldn't write about Zlatan. It makes no sense. Both Zlatan and Naniwa are some of the very best to have played the game.
On January 18 2015 16:52 OtherWorld wrote: Is this really an article that is only about Naniwa? Is the SC2 scene weird to the point where a player can have the most unprofessional possible behavior and still have an article only about him? As Kane said, how about making an article about Nerchio or about all the respectful, professional, non-drama mongering pro gamers out there (instead of calling them some random "qualifier hero")?
Players being extremely unprofessional and getting articles about only them as a result is extremely common in sports; I don't know what you're talking about. Plus writing articles about random pros isn't as interesting.
Except that in sports, unprofessional players are not the only ones to get articles about them. They also get articles about them because of their results, their showman behavior, a memorable moment of the year, a recovery after an accident (ok this one is uncommon in eSports), etc.
Naniwa is obviously a big deal in the StarCraft community. Him qualifying for WCS is a huge storyline and the idea that he shouldn't be written about unless they write an article for everyone is absurd. You don't have to agree or condone with his behavior to understand this. Obviously plenty of people care about him. I for one thing think he was way over the line for his comment about Kane. However try telling a sports newspaper they shouldn't write about Zlatan. It makes no sense. Both Zlatan and Naniwa are some of the very best to have played the game.
With all the talk of professionalism and old player name dropping in this thread, I felt compelled to search out this clip. Not that I'm trying to draw parallels, but I hope for more lols like what I had from this video and this thread.
On January 18 2015 16:52 OtherWorld wrote: Is this really an article that is only about Naniwa? Is the SC2 scene weird to the point where a player can have the most unprofessional possible behavior and still have an article only about him? As Kane said, how about making an article about Nerchio or about all the respectful, professional, non-drama mongering pro gamers out there (instead of calling them some random "qualifier hero")?
Agreed. If TL wants suggestions, I met a really nice, respectful opponent on gold league the other day who would make a great subject. He is just as relevant the current batch of non-naniwa foreigner pros, so why not.
On January 18 2015 16:52 OtherWorld wrote: Is this really an article that is only about Naniwa? Is the SC2 scene weird to the point where a player can have the most unprofessional possible behavior and still have an article only about him? As Kane said, how about making an article about Nerchio or about all the respectful, professional, non-drama mongering pro gamers out there (instead of calling them some random "qualifier hero")?
Players being extremely unprofessional and getting articles about only them as a result is extremely common in sports; I don't know what you're talking about. Plus writing articles about random pros isn't as interesting.
Except that in sports, unprofessional players are not the only ones to get articles about them. They also get articles about them because of their results, their showman behavior, a memorable moment of the year, a recovery after an accident (ok this one is uncommon in eSports), etc.
Naniwa is obviously a big deal in the StarCraft community. Him qualifying for WCS is a huge storyline and the idea that he shouldn't be written about unless they write an article for everyone is absurd. You don't have to agree or condone with his behavior to understand this. Obviously plenty of people care about him. I for one thing think he was way over the line for his comment about Kane. However try telling a sports newspaper they shouldn't write about Zlatan. It makes no sense. Both Zlatan and Naniwa are some of the very best to have played the game.
I guess I'm just angry at him getting more exposure than he would get if he had the behavior of a Snute or of a Scarlett then. edit : I guess I'm also angry at all the NaNifans coming back to praise him and excuse every mistake he makes by accusing Swarm Hosts/Terran/soundproofing/whatever (and insulting his opponents too).
respectful, professional, non-drama mongering pro gamers
lol
You missed the "or" part. Though Nerchio never accused ESL's PCs or soundproofing for his losses afaik.
Meh, I think that most of what I did and why a lot of people don't like me was really blown up out of proportion. It's true that I was always balance whining but it's my opinion about the game. Sure there was some soft insults from time to time which were probably quite unnecessary but that weren't the end of the world either. Being on the other side of insults or whines from other players I actually have more fun instead of being butthurt, thinking to myself "Did you really say that?". I think you guys(or progamers) are really too sensitive from time to time, especially those that do the same behing curtains.
Love or hate him; Naniwa always makes me excited to check TL to see what he's done now. An article about any other random Sc2 pro wouldn't have 9 pages of #passion after the same amount of time, that's for sure.
respectful, professional, non-drama mongering pro gamers
lol
You missed the "or" part. Though Nerchio never accused ESL's PCs or soundproofing for his losses afaik.
Meh, I think that most of what I did and why a lot of people don't like me was really blown up out of proportion. It's true that I was always balance whining but it's my opinion about the game. Sure there was some soft insults from time to time which were probably quite unnecessary but that weren't the end of the world either. Being on the other side of insults or whines from other players I actually have more fun instead of being butthurt, thinking to myself "Did you really say that?". I think you guys(or progamers) are really too sensitive from time to time, especially those that do the same behing curtains.
Out of curiosity, would you ever try to get an opponent disqualified from a tournament if he BM'ed you?
On January 18 2015 18:49 ClueClueClue wrote: Love or hate him; Naniwa always makes me excited to check TL to see what he's done now. An article about any other random Sc2 pro wouldn't have 9 pages of #passion after the same amount of time, that's for sure.
Love them or hate them; the terrorist always makes me excited to check the news to see what they've done. Not comparing Naniwa to terrorist ofc..
respectful, professional, non-drama mongering pro gamers
lol
You missed the "or" part. Though Nerchio never accused ESL's PCs or soundproofing for his losses afaik.
Meh, I think that most of what I did and why a lot of people don't like me was really blown up out of proportion. It's true that I was always balance whining but it's my opinion about the game. Sure there was some soft insults from time to time which were probably quite unnecessary but that weren't the end of the world either. Being on the other side of insults or whines from other players I actually have more fun instead of being butthurt, thinking to myself "Did you really say that?". I think you guys(or progamers) are really too sensitive from time to time, especially those that do the same behing curtains.
Out of curiosity, would you ever try to get an opponent disqualified from a tournament if he BM'ed you?
Of course not, considering what I did in the past that would be hypocrisy. And as I said in my post, I don't really take any insult towards me too personal inside the game and I think nobody really should unless it's something really bad.
On January 18 2015 18:49 ClueClueClue wrote: Love or hate him; Naniwa always makes me excited to check TL to see what he's done now. An article about any other random Sc2 pro wouldn't have 9 pages of #passion after the same amount of time, that's for sure.
Love them or hate them; the terrorist always makes me excited to check the news to see what they've done. Not comparing Naniwa to terrorist ofc..
"The terrorists" aren't as easily pinpointed as the single person NaNiwa, and afaik the shots they fire are of a different kind... as long as you're not physically hurting people, any ruckus a player like NaNi can stir up is pretty entertaining imo.
Dream scenario: NaNi reaches premier finals, loses terribly to Life, swears that he will have his revenge on humanity, flees into space where he becomes a sith lord and is taught the way of the light saber.
On January 18 2015 18:49 ClueClueClue wrote: Love or hate him; Naniwa always makes me excited to check TL to see what he's done now. An article about any other random Sc2 pro wouldn't have 9 pages of #passion after the same amount of time, that's for sure.
Love them or hate them; the terrorist always makes me excited to check the news to see what they've done. Not comparing Naniwa to terrorist ofc..
"The terrorists" aren't as easily pinpointed as the single person NaNiwa, and afaik the shots they fire are of a different kind... as long as you're not physically hurting people, any ruckus a player like NaNi can stir up is pretty entertaining imo.
I should not have said "terrorist" T_T... I can only bold "Not comparing Naniwa to terrorist ofc" ... All i'm saying is that the "let's not care about what someone does because they create drama" reasoning is in my opinion a terrible one.
Nani ur my fev player allways have been, fuck haters do what u allways do SLAY THESE NERDS ! Anyways big fan my friend im very happy that u came back. U saved our race and starcraft!!
Regardless I'd say Naniwa is the most successful foreigner against Korean, especially when the scene has been very saturated with Koreans. He's the only one who's able to stand toe to toe with many Koreans even as Kespa players entered the scene, beating Dear (during his peak), Innovation, Hyun, Jaedong, San, Duckduck, and also reaching multiple finals against Leenock and life.
Most foreigners can only dream what he has achieved. IMO he did better than Stephano in this regard.
On January 18 2015 18:49 ClueClueClue wrote: Love or hate him; Naniwa always makes me excited to check TL to see what he's done now. An article about any other random Sc2 pro wouldn't have 9 pages of #passion after the same amount of time, that's for sure.
Love them or hate them; the terrorist always makes me excited to check the news to see what they've done. Not comparing Naniwa to terrorist ofc..
What a jerk posting... i dont get excited seeing ppl die. Something is very very wrong with you
On January 18 2015 18:49 ClueClueClue wrote: Love or hate him; Naniwa always makes me excited to check TL to see what he's done now. An article about any other random Sc2 pro wouldn't have 9 pages of #passion after the same amount of time, that's for sure.
Love them or hate them; the terrorist always makes me excited to check the news to see what they've done. Not comparing Naniwa to terrorist ofc..
What a jerk posting... i dont get excited seeing ppl die. Something is very very wrong with you
On January 18 2015 18:49 ClueClueClue wrote: Love or hate him; Naniwa always makes me excited to check TL to see what he's done now. An article about any other random Sc2 pro wouldn't have 9 pages of #passion after the same amount of time, that's for sure.
Love them or hate them; the terrorist always makes me excited to check the news to see what they've done. Not comparing Naniwa to terrorist ofc..
What a jerk posting... i dont get excited seeing ppl die. Something is very very wrong with you
That was not at all what i was saying ?
You say you're excited to check the news to check upon whatever shenanigans terrorists are doing.. they usually kill people. Seems a bit fucked up, mate.
On January 18 2015 18:49 ClueClueClue wrote: Love or hate him; Naniwa always makes me excited to check TL to see what he's done now. An article about any other random Sc2 pro wouldn't have 9 pages of #passion after the same amount of time, that's for sure.
Love them or hate them; the terrorist always makes me excited to check the news to see what they've done. Not comparing Naniwa to terrorist ofc..
What a jerk posting... i dont get excited seeing ppl die. Something is very very wrong with you
That was not at all what i was saying ?
You say you're excited to check the news to check upon whatever shenanigans terrorists are doing.. they usually kill people. Seems a bit fucked up, mate.
wtf i was quoting a post... I pushed the reasoning of the guy i quote to show that it was stupid.
On January 18 2015 18:49 ClueClueClue wrote: Love or hate him; Naniwa always makes me excited to check TL to see what he's done now. An article about any other random Sc2 pro wouldn't have 9 pages of #passion after the same amount of time, that's for sure.
Love them or hate them; the terrorist always makes me excited to check the news to see what they've done. Not comparing Naniwa to terrorist ofc..
What a jerk posting... i dont get excited seeing ppl die. Something is very very wrong with you
That was not at all what i was saying ?
You say you're excited to check the news to check upon whatever shenanigans terrorists are doing.. they usually kill people. Seems a bit fucked up, mate.
wtf i was quoting a post... I pushed the reasoning of the guy i quote to show that it was stupid.
In that case your are comparing Naniwa to terrorists (altough you claim not to) wich doesnt make it any better. Shitty post stays very very shitty
Additionally your quoted post isnt stupid at all. Look at other big industries, you need ppl like Naniwa who make stuff controversal, it gets the ppl going. It generates the attention you need to make an industrie. Simple example (just as simple as your terrorist statement): you think hollywood would draw so much attention and ppl you give up on their lifes to try to become succesfull there without all that gossip/drama around? think not
On January 18 2015 19:03 pichoo wrote: Regardless I'd say Naniwa is the most successful foreigner against Korean, especially when the scene has been very saturated with Koreans. He's the only one who's able to stand toe to toe with many Koreans even as Kespa players entered the scene, beating Dear (during his peak), Innovation, Hyun, Jaedong, San, Duckduck, and also reaching multiple finals against Leenock and life.
Most foreigners can only dream what he has achieved. IMO he did better than Stephano in this regard.
aligulac appears to be down but something tells me Stephano is way ahead in that regard.
Naniwa's only real advantage over him and most foreigners is that he was successful against Koreans in the gsl. Back to back ro8s in 2012 (when the competition had really ramped up) is quite a feat but still I'd firmly rank Stephano ahead of him as the undisputed #1 foreigner. After his big IPL3 win Stephano began to win so much against Koreans it almost stopped being noteworthy. He really felt indistinguishable from the average Korean zerg.
Hell, even in Stephano's nadir, he was still the only foreigner to ever make a WCS final during the Korean invasion of 2013-2014.
On January 18 2015 19:03 pichoo wrote: Regardless I'd say Naniwa is the most successful foreigner against Korean, especially when the scene has been very saturated with Koreans. He's the only one who's able to stand toe to toe with many Koreans even as Kespa players entered the scene, beating Dear (during his peak), Innovation, Hyun, Jaedong, San, Duckduck, and also reaching multiple finals against Leenock and life.
Most foreigners can only dream what he has achieved. IMO he did better than Stephano in this regard.
aligulac appears to be down but something tells me Stephano is way ahead in that regard.
Naniwa's only real advantage over him and most foreigners is that he was successful against Koreans in the gsl. Back to back ro8s in 2012 (when the competition had really ramped up) is quite a feat but still I'd firmly rank Stephano ahead of him as the undisputed #1 foreigner. After his big IPL3 win Stephano began to win so much against Koreans it almost stopped being noteworthy. He really felt indistinguishable from the average Korean zerg.
Hell, even in Stephano's nadir, he was still the only foreigner to ever make a WCS final during the Korean invasion of 2013-2014.
Are you trying to use actual facts while arguing with Naniwa fans? Please
On January 18 2015 19:03 pichoo wrote: Regardless I'd say Naniwa is the most successful foreigner against Korean, especially when the scene has been very saturated with Koreans. He's the only one who's able to stand toe to toe with many Koreans even as Kespa players entered the scene, beating Dear (during his peak), Innovation, Hyun, Jaedong, San, Duckduck, and also reaching multiple finals against Leenock and life.
Most foreigners can only dream what he has achieved. IMO he did better than Stephano in this regard.
aligulac appears to be down but something tells me Stephano is way ahead in that regard.
Naniwa's only real advantage over him and most foreigners is that he was successful against Koreans in the gsl. Back to back ro8s in 2012 (when the competition had really ramped up) is quite a feat but still I'd firmly rank Stephano ahead of him as the undisputed #1 foreigner. After his big IPL3 win Stephano began to win so much against Koreans it almost stopped being noteworthy. He really felt indistinguishable from the average Korean zerg.
Hell, even in Stephano's nadir, he was still the only foreigner to ever make a WCS final during the Korean invasion of 2013-2014.
Zerg achievements during the Brood Lord / Infestor era doesn't count as achievements. There were plenty of foreigner zergs taking games and series of Koreans back then.
On January 18 2015 19:03 pichoo wrote: Regardless I'd say Naniwa is the most successful foreigner against Korean, especially when the scene has been very saturated with Koreans. He's the only one who's able to stand toe to toe with many Koreans even as Kespa players entered the scene, beating Dear (during his peak), Innovation, Hyun, Jaedong, San, Duckduck, and also reaching multiple finals against Leenock and life.
Most foreigners can only dream what he has achieved. IMO he did better than Stephano in this regard.
aligulac appears to be down but something tells me Stephano is way ahead in that regard.
Naniwa's only real advantage over him and most foreigners is that he was successful against Koreans in the gsl. Back to back ro8s in 2012 (when the competition had really ramped up) is quite a feat but still I'd firmly rank Stephano ahead of him as the undisputed #1 foreigner. After his big IPL3 win Stephano began to win so much against Koreans it almost stopped being noteworthy. He really felt indistinguishable from the average Korean zerg.
Hell, even in Stephano's nadir, he was still the only foreigner to ever make a WCS final during the Korean invasion of 2013-2014.
Zerg achievements during the Brood Lord / Infestor era doesn't count as achievements. There were plenty of foreigner zergs taking games and series of Koreans back then.
Agreed, especially since Stephano was so known because he abused BL / Infestor, amirite?
Everybody remembers the Stephano 12 min BL / Infestor max out, which gave him the vast majority of his wins.
On January 18 2015 19:03 pichoo wrote: Regardless I'd say Naniwa is the most successful foreigner against Korean, especially when the scene has been very saturated with Koreans. He's the only one who's able to stand toe to toe with many Koreans even as Kespa players entered the scene, beating Dear (during his peak), Innovation, Hyun, Jaedong, San, Duckduck, and also reaching multiple finals against Leenock and life.
Most foreigners can only dream what he has achieved. IMO he did better than Stephano in this regard.
aligulac appears to be down but something tells me Stephano is way ahead in that regard.
Naniwa's only real advantage over him and most foreigners is that he was successful against Koreans in the gsl. Back to back ro8s in 2012 (when the competition had really ramped up) is quite a feat but still I'd firmly rank Stephano ahead of him as the undisputed #1 foreigner. After his big IPL3 win Stephano began to win so much against Koreans it almost stopped being noteworthy. He really felt indistinguishable from the average Korean zerg.
Hell, even in Stephano's nadir, he was still the only foreigner to ever make a WCS final during the Korean invasion of 2013-2014.
Zerg achievements during the Brood Lord / Infestor era doesn't count as achievements. There were plenty of foreigner zergs taking games and series of Koreans back then.
Ever heard of a thing called roach? I don't think you know what you're talking about
On January 18 2015 19:03 pichoo wrote: Regardless I'd say Naniwa is the most successful foreigner against Korean, especially when the scene has been very saturated with Koreans. He's the only one who's able to stand toe to toe with many Koreans even as Kespa players entered the scene, beating Dear (during his peak), Innovation, Hyun, Jaedong, San, Duckduck, and also reaching multiple finals against Leenock and life.
Most foreigners can only dream what he has achieved. IMO he did better than Stephano in this regard.
aligulac appears to be down but something tells me Stephano is way ahead in that regard.
Naniwa's only real advantage over him and most foreigners is that he was successful against Koreans in the gsl. Back to back ro8s in 2012 (when the competition had really ramped up) is quite a feat but still I'd firmly rank Stephano ahead of him as the undisputed #1 foreigner. After his big IPL3 win Stephano began to win so much against Koreans it almost stopped being noteworthy. He really felt indistinguishable from the average Korean zerg.
Hell, even in Stephano's nadir, he was still the only foreigner to ever make a WCS final during the Korean invasion of 2013-2014.
Zerg achievements during the Brood Lord / Infestor era doesn't count as achievements. There were plenty of foreigner zergs taking games and series of Koreans back then.
People have been riding imbalances throughout the game. Should never discredit peoples achievements. The achievements are what the players play for, shouldn't take it away from them. No matter what imbalanced thing they used.
Only thing that should discredit achievements is straight up cheating. And fortunally we haven't had many big cheating scandals in sc2.
On January 18 2015 19:03 pichoo wrote: Regardless I'd say Naniwa is the most successful foreigner against Korean, especially when the scene has been very saturated with Koreans. He's the only one who's able to stand toe to toe with many Koreans even as Kespa players entered the scene, beating Dear (during his peak), Innovation, Hyun, Jaedong, San, Duckduck, and also reaching multiple finals against Leenock and life.
Most foreigners can only dream what he has achieved. IMO he did better than Stephano in this regard.
aligulac appears to be down but something tells me Stephano is way ahead in that regard.
Naniwa's only real advantage over him and most foreigners is that he was successful against Koreans in the gsl. Back to back ro8s in 2012 (when the competition had really ramped up) is quite a feat but still I'd firmly rank Stephano ahead of him as the undisputed #1 foreigner. After his big IPL3 win Stephano began to win so much against Koreans it almost stopped being noteworthy. He really felt indistinguishable from the average Korean zerg.
Hell, even in Stephano's nadir, he was still the only foreigner to ever make a WCS final during the Korean invasion of 2013-2014.
Zerg achievements during the Brood Lord / Infestor era doesn't count as achievements. There were plenty of foreigner zergs taking games and series of Koreans back then.
thats true but not at Stephano's first year. First sign of BroodLord /Infestor era begun around May/June 2012. Stephano won IPL3 in October 2011. Plenty foreign zerg taking alot games during that BL/inf era, where Stephano lost his "alone" dominance.
but hell, why other Zerg were unable to win any tournament that time?
best foreign SC player ever and mediocre kids are still trying to somehow justify their lack of skill by talking shit, better zip it and learn from the guy that still manages to kill you even that he retired
On January 18 2015 19:36 JustPassingBy wrote: I for one am glad that Naniwa is back, despite his incredibly toxic attitude.
After the last year, I welcome any foreigner that has the potential to fight Koreans on even grounds.
Yeah, I'm also happy that is he is back and yeah, last year was lukewarm at best, with foreigner contenders failing consistently when it counted the most. Let's see if the N-factor can make an impact in the long run, or if it is a temporary visit...
It's not that easy to not flame/rage, work on our behaviour is one of the hardest thing to do.
Beside this, when playing becomes a job, you HAVE to do this work on yourself.
Since i watch this game, i've always been amazed about the reaction of losers (i-e losing a final last match to a cheese), they always seem "oh well i lost, meh .., well play to the other guy". Impressive self-control.
On January 18 2015 19:53 Kosak wrote: best foreign SC player ever and mediocre kids are still trying to somehow justify their lack of skill by talking shit, better zip it and learn from the guy that still manages to kill you even that he retired
A: He never retired. B: He acts like the biggest douche in the world, so theres a reaason why peo0ple dont like him.
I really really really hope blizzard does not do any weak stuff like DQing him for trashing bad players on twitter
I want naniwa to beat all lame foreign pros in casual fashion and then cause some controversy so that other hardworking foreigners can once again look at him and see what they're lacking: skill and carisma
On January 18 2015 19:03 pichoo wrote: Regardless I'd say Naniwa is the most successful foreigner against Korean, especially when the scene has been very saturated with Koreans. He's the only one who's able to stand toe to toe with many Koreans even as Kespa players entered the scene, beating Dear (during his peak), Innovation, Hyun, Jaedong, San, Duckduck, and also reaching multiple finals against Leenock and life.
Most foreigners can only dream what he has achieved. IMO he did better than Stephano in this regard.
aligulac appears to be down but something tells me Stephano is way ahead in that regard.
Naniwa's only real advantage over him and most foreigners is that he was successful against Koreans in the gsl. Back to back ro8s in 2012 (when the competition had really ramped up) is quite a feat but still I'd firmly rank Stephano ahead of him as the undisputed #1 foreigner. After his big IPL3 win Stephano began to win so much against Koreans it almost stopped being noteworthy. He really felt indistinguishable from the average Korean zerg.
Hell, even in Stephano's nadir, he was still the only foreigner to ever make a WCS final during the Korean invasion of 2013-2014.
Zerg achievements during the Brood Lord / Infestor era doesn't count as achievements. There were plenty of foreigner zergs taking games and series of Koreans back then.
Stephano was doing good way before BL/Infestor showed up. I don't think it's a coincidence that we suddenly saw ling/infestor popping up everywhere in Korean games after he won IPL3. Skill recognize skill.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
I would probably have done half the shit he's done anyway. He's emotional and struggles to contain himself which makes him act unprofessional and appear rude, when really he's just being forced to deal with his own emotions in the public eye. It doesnt make what he does right, but it would do everyone well to remember how some teenagers can struggle with things like this.
On January 18 2015 20:16 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: got a theory why ppl hates Nani
simply, cause he's talented and able to show high results, the highest in Europe I would say.
a person that our scene needs, the evil genius, but I like it :D he's a very special guy, u don't have to bash him, simply enjoy him playing
I have a theory on this too. It's because he often shows disrespect towards his opponents, towards casters, towards the community, towards the game itself, because he constantly whines about everything. Edit : oh yeah, and the behavior of some/most of his fans probably plays a part in that too.
On January 18 2015 20:16 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: got a theory why ppl hates Nani
simply, cause he's talented and able to show high results, the highest in Europe I would say.
a person that our scene needs, the evil genius, but I like it :D he's a very special guy, u don't have to bash him, simply enjoy him playing
I have a theory on this too. It's because he often shows disrespect towards his opponents, towards casters, towards the community, towards the game itself, because he constantly whines about everything. Edit : oh yeah, and the behavior of some/most of his fans probably plays a part in that too.
He had a real point in everything he ever started to complain. Is it so hard to accept behind the wall of hate?
On January 18 2015 20:16 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: got a theory why ppl hates Nani
simply, cause he's talented and able to show high results, the highest in Europe I would say.
a person that our scene needs, the evil genius, but I like it :D he's a very special guy, u don't have to bash him, simply enjoy him playing
I have a theory on this too. It's because he often shows disrespect towards his opponents, towards casters, towards the community, towards the game itself, because he constantly whines about everything. Edit : oh yeah, and the behavior of some/most of his fans probably plays a part in that too.
He had a real point in everything he ever started to complain. Is it so hard to accept behind the wall of hate?
Like Happy "stream cheating"? Or a soundproof problem at IEM? Or all the other things hes done lol. Its simple, hes a whiny kid who cannot accept a loss.
On January 18 2015 20:16 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: got a theory why ppl hates Nani
simply, cause he's talented and able to show high results, the highest in Europe I would say.
a person that our scene needs, the evil genius, but I like it :D he's a very special guy, u don't have to bash him, simply enjoy him playing
I have a theory on this too. It's because he often shows disrespect towards his opponents, towards casters, towards the community, towards the game itself, because he constantly whines about everything. Edit : oh yeah, and the behavior of some/most of his fans probably plays a part in that too.
He had a real point in everything he ever started to complain. Is it so hard to accept behind the wall of hate?
He had a real point? Funny how no one else complained about ESL's PCs, then. Funny how he was still saying how Protoss was UP back in the Golden Era of Protoss. Oh yeah, too, how is insulting Stephano (the "you already made 200K$ building only infestors" tweet), or Kane ("you know SC2 is dead when Kane is number one on ladder"), or other progamers, making a good point? I'm sorry but no. Some of his concerns/complaints were legit. Most of them were not. edit : funnily enough I've never seen him complain after a win lol.
True but we give skilled players more leeway and that's ok considering the spotlight on them.
Is that really OK? That's double standard. A rule being a rule, it should be applied without double standards.
I think he meant that any misstep someone does as top player is blown up a lot more than a misstep from a no-name player. Also, top players will be provoced more. So I can see the point of being more forgiving with top player, without being "double standard".
Also, even if top players are treated differently, so what? They want the best players for the best tournaments to get as many views as possible. If that requires being a bit unfair to some players, I don't see what would stop them.
On January 18 2015 20:16 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: got a theory why ppl hates Nani
simply, cause he's talented and able to show high results, the highest in Europe I would say.
a person that our scene needs, the evil genius, but I like it :D he's a very special guy, u don't have to bash him, simply enjoy him playing
I have a theory on this too. It's because he often shows disrespect towards his opponents, towards casters, towards the community, towards the game itself, because he constantly whines about everything. Edit : oh yeah, and the behavior of some/most of his fans probably plays a part in that too.
He had a real point in everything he ever started to complain. Is it so hard to accept behind the wall of hate?
He had a real point? Funny how no one else complained about ESL's PCs, then. Funny how he was still saying how Protoss was UP back in the Golden Era of Protoss. Oh yeah, too, how is insulting Stephano (the "you already made 200K$ building only infestors" tweet), or Kane ("you know SC2 is dead when Kane is number one on ladder"), or other progamers, making a good point? I'm sorry but no. Some of his concerns/complaints were legit. Most of them were not. edit : funnily enough I've never seen him complain after a win lol.
Proven: Naniwa winning is a sign of good, fair conditions!
aligulac appears to be down but something tells me Stephano is way ahead in that regard.
Naniwa's only real advantage over him and most foreigners is that he was successful against Koreans in the gsl. Back to back ro8s in 2012 (when the competition had really ramped up) is quite a feat but still I'd firmly rank Stephano ahead of him as the undisputed #1 foreigner. After his big IPL3 win Stephano began to win so much against Koreans it almost stopped being noteworthy. He really felt indistinguishable from the average Korean zerg.
Hell, even in Stephano's nadir, he was still the only foreigner to ever make a WCS final during the Korean invasion of 2013-2014.
On winning tournament, is no doubt Stephano is the best foreigner, however I'm comparing a different era, when Kespa players stepping in to the scene. Naniwa was the only foreigner who can go far in major tournaments full of Koreans and Kespa players. I guess you can say Scarlett was also doing really good in 2013 and early 2014.
OtherWorld: No I'm not Nani fanboy, i'm not even protoss fan. I'm just like everyone else hungry for foreigners doing well in tournaments. With the new WCS system, more chance for foreigners to participate which means more experience and motivations for them, and hopefully we'll see them doing well in other tourneys like IEM or Dreamhack.
respectful, professional, non-drama mongering pro gamers
lol
You missed the "or" part. Though Nerchio never accused ESL's PCs or soundproofing for his losses afaik.
Meh, I think that most of what I did and why a lot of people don't like me was really blown up out of proportion. It's true that I was always balance whining but it's my opinion about the game. Sure there was some soft insults from time to time which were probably quite unnecessary but that weren't the end of the world either. Being on the other side of insults or whines from other players I actually have more fun instead of being butthurt, thinking to myself "Did you really say that?". I think you guys(or progamers) are really too sensitive from time to time, especially those that do the same behing curtains.
Out of curiosity, would you ever try to get an opponent disqualified from a tournament if he BM'ed you?
Of course not, considering what I did in the past that would be hypocrisy. And as I said in my post, I don't really take any insult towards me too personal inside the game and I think nobody really should unless it's something really bad.
Oh Nerchio. I've ... strongly disliked you for years. First because you were a damn beast, destroying many players I was cheering for in various tournaments. Then because I'm a huge Naniwa fanboy and you guys seemed to be enemies, so of course I'd stand by my champ in the rivalry.
But now, with these posts you're... mffhhssmgff.... getting my respect. You display a great deal of self distance and perspective here, just as I think Naniwa does. You made a small fan out of me just now. It's always tough to cheer for two guys with a huge rivalry, so I guess this should be interesting.
Btw for those who missed it, my favourite Nani quote from Desrow's show the other day (not verbatim, and credit to Daniel B, a poster in Barcraft Sthlm): NaNiwa: I don't remember this game being so hard to play but I've improved so much in just a month
XMGToD: But you said you would be the best forigner in one (1) week?
Why the hell are TL authors not even checking what they are writing? It was figured out like 100 times that Russian stream HAD a 3-min delay (which was less than 5-min on other streams, but still it was clear, that nobody could listern to a stream, it's a bullshit), so you're just lying in the article. Great job!
On January 18 2015 20:16 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: got a theory why ppl hates Nani
simply, cause he's talented and able to show high results, the highest in Europe I would say.
a person that our scene needs, the evil genius, but I like it :D he's a very special guy, u don't have to bash him, simply enjoy him playing
I have a theory on this too. It's because he often shows disrespect towards his opponents, towards casters, towards the community, towards the game itself, because he constantly whines about everything. Edit : oh yeah, and the behavior of some/most of his fans probably plays a part in that too.
He had a real point in everything he ever started to complain. Is it so hard to accept behind the wall of hate?
He had a real point? Funny how no one else complained about ESL's PCs, then. Funny how he was still saying how Protoss was UP back in the Golden Era of Protoss. Oh yeah, too, how is insulting Stephano (the "you already made 200K$ building only infestors" tweet), or Kane ("you know SC2 is dead when Kane is number one on ladder"), or other progamers, making a good point? I'm sorry but no. Some of his concerns/complaints were legit. Most of them were not. edit : funnily enough I've never seen him complain after a win lol.
Some people are not afraid to show emotions and not afraid to share emotions. And it's clrearly can be seens that half of his posts are filled with sarcasm almost completely. Exactly that post was about Kane us number 1 on ladder while #dreampool, "daed gaem". Soundproofing at IEM? It is a very real issue, streamcheating by Happy? Less likely but the result was different and Happy played an awful decider.
Hate him or love him, more likely u're still going to watch him playing which is going to be positive for viewer numbers.
I will never, ever, evereverever understand people's opsesion with a player's personality. How can you care about something outside of the game? You think naniwa's personality is awful? You think there are no others like him in other sports? The only problem with naniwa is he communicates with the community and then he hits a wall made by idlers who can never understand what it means to give it your all and try and move the world around you. The only thing important is that he is fucking good at the game, that he gives us amazing series, allways seeks out new ways to win and that his micro allows him to stop a push warping exatly 1 more zealot. I could not care less even he draws dicks in the chat as long as he plays his all. I think naniwa is the best thing that happened to foreign starcraft. I don't see how it could not be. He skills set and dedication to win are what few outside of korea have shown during the years.
On January 18 2015 21:01 mRpolite wrote: I will never, ever, evereverever understand people's opsesion with a player's personality. How can you care about something outside of the game?
And prizepool gets more attraction than the playerpool or/and tournament itself. All this phenomenons exist since sc2. I complained this thing for 5 yrs now.
On January 18 2015 20:55 Alex007 wrote: Why the hell are TL authors not even checking what they are writing? It was figured out like 100 times that Russian stream HAD a 3-min delay (which was less than 5-min on other streams, but still it was clear, that nobody could listern to a stream, it's a bullshit), so you're just lying in the article. Great job!
The Russian stream was breaking the rules by considerable margin of 2 minutes and that's what matters. In fact, they should be punished in some way for that.
Guidelines for non-official World Championship Series Shoutcasters and Streams The shoutcaster must receive permission from both players to broadcast if the game is being broadcast on a non-official World Championship Series Qualifier stream; The stream must be broadcast on a 5 minute delay;
Do people actually know Kane has an amputated foot? How can you say he had that coming. Nuts. It's like Kane poked Naniwa in the cheek and Naniwa blew his head off in return. It's way over the line.
The Russian stream was breaking the rules by considerable margin of 2 minutes and that's what matters. In fact, they should be punished in some way for that.
WCS Player Handbook, pg. 32:
If you're such a fan of last year's handbook, try also to count the amount of times Naniwa broke it while insulting his opponent and all russians in general. That's definitely the one to be "punished".
On January 18 2015 21:19 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Do people actually know Kane has an amputated foot? How can you say he had that coming. Nuts. It's like Kane poked Naniwa in the cheek and Naniwa blew his head off in return. It's way over the line.
When you fuck with people 24/7, they might actually say or do something back at you.
On January 18 2015 21:19 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Do people actually know Kane has an amputated foot? How can you say he had that coming. Nuts. It's like Kane poked Naniwa in the cheek and Naniwa blew his head off in return. It's way over the line.
Yea but Kane does a lot of that sort of provoking shit. Can't say I sympathise all that much.
The Russian stream was breaking the rules by considerable margin of 2 minutes and that's what matters. In fact, they should be punished in some way for that.
WCS Player Handbook, pg. 32:
If you're such a fan of last year's handbook, try also to count the amount of times Naniwa broke it while insulting his opponent and all russians in general. That's definitely the one to be "punished".
It's so hard to change a single number of delay in your OBS...You are trying to prove actually what? Insulting russians in general? Are we living in different worlds or what? :D
On January 18 2015 21:19 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Do people actually know Kane has an amputated foot? How can you say he had that coming. Nuts. It's like Kane poked Naniwa in the cheek and Naniwa blew his head off in return. It's way over the line.
Making people to boo Naniwa out of the scene is a little more than a poke in the cheek for me. If you make harsch attacks towards someone, you should be prepared to take the backlash and that´s just what came his way. I think your comparison is way off.
On January 18 2015 21:19 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Do people actually know Kane has an amputated foot? How can you say he had that coming. Nuts. It's like Kane poked Naniwa in the cheek and Naniwa blew his head off in return. It's way over the line.
When you fuck with people 24/7, they might actually say or do something back at you.
On January 18 2015 21:19 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Do people actually know Kane has an amputated foot? How can you say he had that coming. Nuts. It's like Kane poked Naniwa in the cheek and Naniwa blew his head off in return. It's way over the line.
On January 18 2015 21:19 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Do people actually know Kane has an amputated foot? How can you say he had that coming. Nuts. It's like Kane poked Naniwa in the cheek and Naniwa blew his head off in return. It's way over the line.
Folks, let's get it straight: Naniwa's comment about Kane was disgusting, but at least he quickly removed it and replaced it with the peace-oriented tweets, so he knows that he did wrong and corrected it in the way he could.
On January 18 2015 21:19 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Do people actually know Kane has an amputated foot? How can you say he had that coming. Nuts. It's like Kane poked Naniwa in the cheek and Naniwa blew his head off in return. It's way over the line.
Folks, let's get it straight: Naniwa's comment about Kane was disgusting, but at least he quickly removed it and replaced it with the peace-oriented tweets, so he knows that he did wrong and corrected it in the way he could.
On January 18 2015 15:48 pigmanbear wrote: [...] The idea that Vortix can be compared to IdrA is laughable. Vortix literally never won a thing of significance.
1) "The idea of comparing these 2 players is laughable!" 2) [Proceeds to compare the 2 players]
Player Rules and Responsibilities 16.0 Player Code of Conduct
B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
17.0 Player Code of Conduct Offenses
B. Violations of the Code of Conduct may vary including a warning, an immediate disqualification, removal from the tournament, and/or restriction from participation in future events.
Player Rules and Responsibilities 16.0 Player Code of Conduct
B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
17.0 Player Code of Conduct Offenses
B. Violations of the Code of Conduct may vary including a warning, an immediate disqualification, removal from the tournament, and/or restriction from participation in future events.
On January 18 2015 14:36 peanuts wrote: Welp, I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy this one. Have fun kids. Daily reminder that not even Nani is as evil as Sniper though.
Nani, if you win WCS, I'm dying my hair blue again. Just saying.
"again" wtf dude :D
aaaaand of course it's stuchiu who wrote this article! great article! ye nani is awesome, more a hero than a villain imo. a personality we needed to make this gaem aliev again!
I love the "went too far" thing. If you get punched in the face, you can punch back as hard as you want. Seeing these are words only, this was not over the line at all in my opinion. Happy Naniwa is back, fed up with all these people on their high horses. Hope he does well.
Player Rules and Responsibilities 16.0 Player Code of Conduct
B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
17.0 Player Code of Conduct Offenses
B. Violations of the Code of Conduct may vary including a warning, an immediate disqualification, removal from the tournament, and/or restriction from participation in future events.
Player Rules and Responsibilities 16.0 Player Code of Conduct
B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
17.0 Player Code of Conduct Offenses
B. Violations of the Code of Conduct may vary including a warning, an immediate disqualification, removal from the tournament, and/or restriction from participation in future events.
Player Rules and Responsibilities 16.0 Player Code of Conduct
B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
17.0 Player Code of Conduct Offenses
B. Violations of the Code of Conduct may vary including a warning, an immediate disqualification, removal from the tournament, and/or restriction from participation in future events.
I usually detest comments about handicaps, but man.. imagine an Annoyotron poking at Deathwing for 20 turns... "hello, hello, hello!!!" Of course he's going to get fricking obliterated.
Player Rules and Responsibilities 16.0 Player Code of Conduct
B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
17.0 Player Code of Conduct Offenses
B. Violations of the Code of Conduct may vary including a warning, an immediate disqualification, removal from the tournament, and/or restriction from participation in future events.
Player Rules and Responsibilities 16.0 Player Code of Conduct
B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
17.0 Player Code of Conduct Offenses
B. Violations of the Code of Conduct may vary including a warning, an immediate disqualification, removal from the tournament, and/or restriction from participation in future events.
If drawing inappropriate things with scans is not ok, then this can not be acceptable.
Thanks for that. However, in this case I think that the players were talking outside of the game about things which are only indirectly related to the game. I mean, isn't it a personal business of the players what kind of a relation they have in real life outside of the game?
One could consider the legal interpretations of tweets that wish physical harm or stage physical fights, but I'm pretty sure that everyone agrees here that this would be a hugely overblown case. Finally, Naniwa removed his tweet, so he backed off from his statement.
Player Rules and Responsibilities 16.0 Player Code of Conduct
B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
17.0 Player Code of Conduct Offenses
B. Violations of the Code of Conduct may vary including a warning, an immediate disqualification, removal from the tournament, and/or restriction from participation in future events.
If drawing inappropriate things with scans is not ok, then this can not be acceptable.
Thanks for that. However, in this case I think that the players were talking outside of the game about things which are only indirectly related to the game. I mean, isn't it a personal business of the players what kind of a relation they have in real life outside of the game?
One could consider the legal interpretations of tweets that wish physical harm or stage physical fights, but I'm pretty sure that everyone agrees here that this would be a hugely overblown case. Finally, Naniwa removed his tweet, so he backed off from his statement.
I think he remembered this:
The WCS Administration team is also aware of other reported infractions of our Behavior rule (16.B in the WCS Player Handbook) on various social media and other public locations by players competing in the World Championship Series. Warnings will continue to be issued when players are in violation of the Code of Conduct, and further action may be taken after additional review. We take all reports of misconduct very seriously and will investigate all matters to maintain the ongoing confidence of our competitors and viewers.
Player Rules and Responsibilities 16.0 Player Code of Conduct
B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
17.0 Player Code of Conduct Offenses
B. Violations of the Code of Conduct may vary including a warning, an immediate disqualification, removal from the tournament, and/or restriction from participation in future events.
Player Rules and Responsibilities 16.0 Player Code of Conduct
B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
17.0 Player Code of Conduct Offenses
B. Violations of the Code of Conduct may vary including a warning, an immediate disqualification, removal from the tournament, and/or restriction from participation in future events.
Sports has plenty of bad boys - they bring drama into the game. Here I am thinking of the likes of Jose Mourinho, not that piece of human effluence Michael Vicks.
Great to see Naniwa back in the game - loved his skill and the excitement/controversy he brought into the game. He was, and probably still is, the only Protoss I will ever support against a Terran player.
I don't like this 'hate campaign' versus naniwa from Kane and others. Reminds me of the incontrol and idra high fiving moment vs destiny. Easy to pick on someone with a group. It's just silly.
I mean Naniwa has no filter, so he's brutally honest which makes him very rude and people think he's an asshole for it, which is totally fine of course. But gathering together as a group versus 1 person is way worse than being an asshole, it means you can't distance yourself from it which means you are no better a person. What is wrong with just accepting you don't like someone. You don't have to get along with every other progamer. Why do you need to gather together and try to demoralize him... Sad group mentality.
I was never a fan of Naniwa but seeing the reactions to his return makes me want cheer for him lol.
Player Rules and Responsibilities 16.0 Player Code of Conduct
B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
17.0 Player Code of Conduct Offenses
B. Violations of the Code of Conduct may vary including a warning, an immediate disqualification, removal from the tournament, and/or restriction from participation in future events.
On January 18 2015 20:55 Alex007 wrote: Why the hell are TL authors not even checking what they are writing? It was figured out like 100 times that Russian stream HAD a 3-min delay (which was less than 5-min on other streams, but still it was clear, that nobody could listern to a stream, it's a bullshit), so you're just lying in the article. Great job!
The Russian stream was breaking the rules by considerable margin of 2 minutes and that's what matters. In fact, they should be punished in some way for that.
Guidelines for non-official World Championship Series Shoutcasters and Streams The shoutcaster must receive permission from both players to broadcast if the game is being broadcast on a non-official World Championship Series Qualifier stream; The stream must be broadcast on a 5 minute delay;
All the other streams had 3 minutes. The Russian stream had 0 delay beyond standard Twitch delay. If they didn't, I wouldn't have removed them.
On January 18 2015 20:55 Alex007 wrote: Why the hell are TL authors not even checking what they are writing? It was figured out like 100 times that Russian stream HAD a 3-min delay (which was less than 5-min on other streams, but still it was clear, that nobody could listern to a stream, it's a bullshit), so you're just lying in the article. Great job!
The Russian stream was breaking the rules by considerable margin of 2 minutes and that's what matters. In fact, they should be punished in some way for that.
Guidelines for non-official World Championship Series Shoutcasters and Streams The shoutcaster must receive permission from both players to broadcast if the game is being broadcast on a non-official World Championship Series Qualifier stream; The stream must be broadcast on a 5 minute delay;
All the other streams had 3 minutes. The Russian stream had 0 delay beyond standard Twitch delay. If they didn't, I wouldn't have removed them.
Thanks. I was wondering if this apparently pro-Russian fan from Ukraine was presenting the facts correctly or not, so thanks for clarifications. Btw. by standard Twitch delay you mean a few seconds? Anyway, the conclusions are the same.
Can someone please do one of those crazy hype trailers for the NaNiwa vs. Nerchio match? With all the drama etc.? Just as the icing on the cake? That's like the most hype match since the WCS finals.
On January 18 2015 20:55 Alex007 wrote: Why the hell are TL authors not even checking what they are writing? It was figured out like 100 times that Russian stream HAD a 3-min delay (which was less than 5-min on other streams, but still it was clear, that nobody could listern to a stream, it's a bullshit), so you're just lying in the article. Great job!
The Russian stream was breaking the rules by considerable margin of 2 minutes and that's what matters. In fact, they should be punished in some way for that.
Guidelines for non-official World Championship Series Shoutcasters and Streams The shoutcaster must receive permission from both players to broadcast if the game is being broadcast on a non-official World Championship Series Qualifier stream; The stream must be broadcast on a 5 minute delay;
All the other streams had 3 minutes. The Russian stream had 0 delay beyond standard Twitch delay. If they didn't, I wouldn't have removed them.
Thanks. I was wondering if this apparently pro-Russian fan from Ukraine was presenting the facts correctly or not, so thanks for clarifications. Btw. by standard Twitch delay you mean a few seconds? Anyway, the conclusions are the same.
I find it can range from anything to 10-50 seconds usually.
oooh. Naniwa. Didnt miss him at all. He is a garbage person and thats it. U have to accept it. He cannot control himself. He is not 5 years old. And I disagree with Stichu. If Naniwa was more stable and could control himself he could have reached in Sc2 much more. I dont wanna overlook his character because of his SC2 achievments. The best thing we could is just ignore him. RIP
On January 18 2015 20:55 Alex007 wrote: Why the hell are TL authors not even checking what they are writing? It was figured out like 100 times that Russian stream HAD a 3-min delay (which was less than 5-min on other streams, but still it was clear, that nobody could listern to a stream, it's a bullshit), so you're just lying in the article. Great job!
The Russian stream was breaking the rules by considerable margin of 2 minutes and that's what matters. In fact, they should be punished in some way for that.
Guidelines for non-official World Championship Series Shoutcasters and Streams The shoutcaster must receive permission from both players to broadcast if the game is being broadcast on a non-official World Championship Series Qualifier stream; The stream must be broadcast on a 5 minute delay;
All the other streams had 3 minutes. The Russian stream had 0 delay beyond standard Twitch delay. If they didn't, I wouldn't have removed them.
Ah, finally cleared up. Expect your post to be quoted a million times in a million threads :D
On January 18 2015 20:55 Alex007 wrote: Why the hell are TL authors not even checking what they are writing? It was figured out like 100 times that Russian stream HAD a 3-min delay (which was less than 5-min on other streams, but still it was clear, that nobody could listern to a stream, it's a bullshit), so you're just lying in the article. Great job!
The Russian stream was breaking the rules by considerable margin of 2 minutes and that's what matters. In fact, they should be punished in some way for that.
Guidelines for non-official World Championship Series Shoutcasters and Streams The shoutcaster must receive permission from both players to broadcast if the game is being broadcast on a non-official World Championship Series Qualifier stream; The stream must be broadcast on a 5 minute delay;
All the other streams had 3 minutes. The Russian stream had 0 delay beyond standard Twitch delay. If they didn't, I wouldn't have removed them.
Ah, finally cleared up. Expect your post to be quoted a million times in a million threads :D
I cleared it up multiple times the very same evening already, surprised it's still being discussed
On January 18 2015 20:55 Alex007 wrote: Why the hell are TL authors not even checking what they are writing? It was figured out like 100 times that Russian stream HAD a 3-min delay (which was less than 5-min on other streams, but still it was clear, that nobody could listern to a stream, it's a bullshit), so you're just lying in the article. Great job!
The Russian stream was breaking the rules by considerable margin of 2 minutes and that's what matters. In fact, they should be punished in some way for that.
Guidelines for non-official World Championship Series Shoutcasters and Streams The shoutcaster must receive permission from both players to broadcast if the game is being broadcast on a non-official World Championship Series Qualifier stream; The stream must be broadcast on a 5 minute delay;
All the other streams had 3 minutes. The Russian stream had 0 delay beyond standard Twitch delay. If they didn't, I wouldn't have removed them.
Ah, finally cleared up. Expect your post to be quoted a million times in a million threads :D
I cleared it up multiple times the very same evening already, surprised it's still being discussed
On January 18 2015 20:55 Alex007 wrote: Why the hell are TL authors not even checking what they are writing? It was figured out like 100 times that Russian stream HAD a 3-min delay (which was less than 5-min on other streams, but still it was clear, that nobody could listern to a stream, it's a bullshit), so you're just lying in the article. Great job!
The Russian stream was breaking the rules by considerable margin of 2 minutes and that's what matters. In fact, they should be punished in some way for that.
Guidelines for non-official World Championship Series Shoutcasters and Streams The shoutcaster must receive permission from both players to broadcast if the game is being broadcast on a non-official World Championship Series Qualifier stream; The stream must be broadcast on a 5 minute delay;
All the other streams had 3 minutes. The Russian stream had 0 delay beyond standard Twitch delay. If they didn't, I wouldn't have removed them.
Ah, finally cleared up. Expect your post to be quoted a million times in a million threads :D
I cleared it up multiple times the very same evening already, surprised it's still being discussed
It can't be denied that he will bring some viewers back. Others want to see him win, other want to see him lose.
He's a dirty protoss and a toxic attitude player so I consider myself as anti-fan. Ragequit vs. Polt to "retirement" and losing to Thorzain in TSL3 finals put smile on my face. Anyway, WCS is going to be entertaining this year!
On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote: 10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed.
Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose?
There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed.
You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series.
Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there.
On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote: 10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed.
Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose?
There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed.
You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series.
Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there.
I see Naniwa the same as you do. He is very intelligent and knows what he's doing when he rages/flames/etc.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
Let's hope. Just one week until Nerchio gives him a lesson in Swarm Host and we'll see how he handles that.
You do know that if you had said that about any other player you would have been banned or at the very least warned. Naniwa bring controversy and is one of very, very few interesting people to watch in Sc2. The scene has been stale for a long ass time and we need some colorful characters.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
Let's hope. Just one week until Nerchio gives him a lesson in Swarm Host and we'll see how he handles that.
You do know that if you had said that about any other player you would have been banned or at the very least warned. Naniwa bring controversy and is one of very, very few interesting people to watch in Sc2. The scene has been stale for a long ass time and we need some colorful characters.
The scene doesnt need a rager of his caliber. He is an absolutely terrible person, who blames pretty much everything else than himself for losses. There is a reason why so many people dislike him greatly.
On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote: 10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed.
Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose?
There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed.
You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series.
Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there.
I see Naniwa the same as you do. He is very intelligent and knows what he's doing when he rages/flames/etc.
Hmm, I think you're both a bit paranoid about this. NaNiwa is an ass for sure but to think he created all the drama he has in his career on purpose? No way. He is now a little bit of course.
respectful, professional, non-drama mongering pro gamers
lol
You missed the "or" part. Though Nerchio never accused ESL's PCs or soundproofing for his losses afaik.
Meh, I think that most of what I did and why a lot of people don't like me was really blown up out of proportion. It's true that I was always balance whining but it's my opinion about the game. Sure there was some soft insults from time to time which were probably quite unnecessary but that weren't the end of the world either. Being on the other side of insults or whines from other players I actually have more fun instead of being butthurt, thinking to myself "Did you really say that?". I think you guys(or progamers) are really too sensitive from time to time, especially those that do the same behing curtains.
Out of curiosity, would you ever try to get an opponent disqualified from a tournament if he BM'ed you?
Of course not, considering what I did in the past that would be hypocrisy. And as I said in my post, I don't really take any insult towards me too personal inside the game and I think nobody really should unless it's something really bad.
On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote: 10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed.
Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose?
There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed.
You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series.
Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there.
would you mind to clarify what the highlighted (by me) part is supposed to mean?
On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote: 10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed.
Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose?
There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed.
You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series.
Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there.
would you mind to clarify what the highlighted (by me) part is supposed to mean?
If Naniwa wasn't a good player, noone would care for his intentional insults and bm.
The thing is though that he is only a good player in terms of "foreigners". Being able to beat the majority of a rather weak foreign scene does not make you a sick player.
If he would be a korean-based player, he wouldn't make Code S at all, not even with a decent training time of like half a year. I'm pretty sure of that.
He'd be totally irrelevant in Korea, except for his twitter drama. That's it.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
Let's hope. Just one week until Nerchio gives him a lesson in Swarm Host and we'll see how he handles that.
You do know that if you had said that about any other player you would have been banned or at the very least warned. Naniwa bring controversy and is one of very, very few interesting people to watch in Sc2. The scene has been stale for a long ass time and we need some colorful characters.
The scene doesnt need a rager of his caliber. He is an absolutely terrible person, who blames pretty much everything else than himself for losses. There is a reason why so many people dislike him greatly.
And yet nerchio is some kind of hero for people. Idra was also the same. The scene had a way larger amount of viewers when the "ragers" were active. I would argue that the scene needs controversy. The community always drum the controversial people out of the scene and then they sit and wonder why the scene seems so boring all of the sudden.
Nani's response was severe but if we care about the level of severity then we're basically rewarding Kane for knowing what intensity of trash talk he's able to get away with. I think mean-spirited is mean-spirited and there's no honest and good argument for drawing the line somewhere specific. You can cut really deep with a very basic insult if you know it hits a sore spot of your victim. For all we know, Nani was hurt 10x more by Kane's comment than Kane was by Nani's. Either you're allowed to try to hurt other people with your words or you're not. How good you are at it and how well you can keep your comments "socially acceptable" are irrelevant. I feel like we're all playing some game by reaching a consensus that a certain comment is off limits.
We may as well cut the bullshit and start brainstorming some exchanges between players that'll get the most viewers. We want to maximize drama without driving people away with offensiveness and immaturity, while also not emphasizing these external storylines so much that we alienate the viewers who just want to focus on the games. I'm not a great writer so anyone else want to throw some stuff out there so we can get a rough draft to Blizzard before season one gets rolling?
On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote: 10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed.
Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose?
There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed.
You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series.
Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there.
would you mind to clarify what the highlighted (by me) part is supposed to mean?
If Naniwa wasn't a good player, noone would care for his intentional insults and bm.
The thing is though that he is only a good player in terms of "foreigners". Being able to beat the majority of a rather weak foreign scene does not make you a sick player.
If he would be a korean-based player, he wouldn't make Code S at all, not even with a decent training time of like half a year. I'm pretty sure of that.
He'd be totally irrelevant in Korea, except for his twitter drama. That's it.
Thanks, I had been confused by your wording then. All clear now.
Imho, Nani has the talent and the focus to be relevant in Korea - given he'd be training in a korean teamhouse. Don't know if Nani would get along with their strict in-house regimes though...
Anyways, we have seen more than once that talented foreigners can keep up with Koreans given the right training and mentality (think Scarlett, Stephano, etc) and Naniwa certainly is amongst the most talented foreigners, which he has demonstrated yet again by plowing through the competition after his break.
I don't care what everyone says about NaNiwa, but you can't take away the fact that he brings more viewers, more drama, more hype and everything else that SC2 needs in my opinion to be more succesfull again.
I don't like him as a person, but I admire his talent and bravery to do whatever it takes to get the win and succeed.
Please never retire again, NaNiwa. And if you do, come back just like this. I will never forget your two amazing Code S runs. Make that three sometime soon!
On January 18 2015 19:03 pichoo wrote: Regardless I'd say Naniwa is the most successful foreigner against Korean, especially when the scene has been very saturated with Koreans. He's the only one who's able to stand toe to toe with many Koreans even as Kespa players entered the scene, beating Dear (during his peak), Innovation, Hyun, Jaedong, San, Duckduck, and also reaching multiple finals against Leenock and life.
Most foreigners can only dream what he has achieved. IMO he did better than Stephano in this regard.
Sorry, you heard it from TL's master of simple, often incomplete sentences, stuchiu: Naniwa == Vortix. History rewritten.
NaNiwa came from retirement to qualify to WCS in the first qualifier in which he participated. From retirement! Can't wait to see him play ForGG in the finals. He is the best foreigner of all time. And everyone just hates him because sometimes he calles it like it is. Big news everyone: the truth sometimes hurts! Really glad NaNiwa is back. Huge plus for the foreign scene! GoGo NaNiwa!
Omg i love this, the drama around and everything, it is just as important than the game itself imo. I stopped watching and playing sc2, not only because of Naniwa but mostly, it has been so fucking boring scene after that, we need more persons like this. That being said i dont agree with everything he does, says or thinks, for an example, i was mad as hell when he forfeited at katowice, and then he said he had played lol in the hotelroom and not practicing anything at what he should have, that made me pissed and i said to hell with Naniwa, but well i guess it's forgotten now and we have to move on. Seing him coming back made up for it, more than enough.
On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote: 10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed.
Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose?
There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed.
You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series.
Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there.
would you mind to clarify what the highlighted (by me) part is supposed to mean?
If Naniwa wasn't a good player, noone would care for his intentional insults and bm.
The thing is though that he is only a good player in terms of "foreigners". Being able to beat the majority of a rather weak foreign scene does not make you a sick player.
If he would be a korean-based player, he wouldn't make Code S at all, not even with a decent training time of like half a year. I'm pretty sure of that.
He'd be totally irrelevant in Korea, except for his twitter drama. That's it.
[...]
Anyways, we have seen more than once that talented foreigners can keep up with Koreans given the right training and mentality (think Scarlett, Stephano, etc) and Naniwa certainly is amongst the most talented foreigners, which he has demonstrated yet again by plowing through the competition after his break.
I think our opinions differ a lot here. IMO, the "best foreigner" is at the level of skill of a "mediocre to decent Korean". There was never a point where a top foreigner could compete with a top korean. Naniwa came close to competing by two ro8 exits. He's since then relying on that - and keeping up his trash talk to stay relevant.
We need a NaNicam during the entire season of WCS; always showing us what he's up to while other matches are going on. Preferably, Stuichu could be sitting in the ESL studio, researching the NaNiwebs for NaNi stuff live.
If Zlatan gets one on Swedish Tv, NaNiwa should have one on ESL.
On January 19 2015 00:02 Naikonz wrote: NaNiwa came from retirement to qualify to WCS in the first qualifier in which he participated. From retirement! Can't wait to see him play ForGG in the finals. He is the best foreigner of all time. And everyone just hates him because sometimes he calles it like it is. Big news everyone: the truth sometimes hurts! Really glad NaNiwa is back. Huge plus for the foreign scene! GoGo NaNiwa!
That's like the best "bait boxerfred into tempban" post I've ever seen. Congrats on that.
On January 19 2015 00:02 Naikonz wrote: NaNiwa came from retirement to qualify to WCS in the first qualifier in which he participated. From retirement! Can't wait to see him play ForGG in the finals. He is the best foreigner of all time. And everyone just hates him because sometimes he calles it like it is. Big news everyone: the truth sometimes hurts! Really glad NaNiwa is back. Huge plus for the foreign scene! GoGo NaNiwa!
That's like the best "bait boxerfred into tempban" post I've ever seen. Congrats on that.
On January 19 2015 00:02 Naikonz wrote: NaNiwa came from retirement to qualify to WCS in the first qualifier in which he participated. From retirement! Can't wait to see him play ForGG in the finals. He is the best foreigner of all time. And everyone just hates him because sometimes he calles it like it is. Big news everyone: the truth sometimes hurts! Really glad NaNiwa is back. Huge plus for the foreign scene! GoGo NaNiwa!
That's like the best "bait boxerfred into tempban" post I've ever seen. Congrats on that.
Meh, it didn't succeed..
That guy's bait was good, but it wasn't NaNiwa-good.
On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote: 10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed.
Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose?
There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed.
You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series.
Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there.
would you mind to clarify what the highlighted (by me) part is supposed to mean?
If Naniwa wasn't a good player, noone would care for his intentional insults and bm.
The thing is though that he is only a good player in terms of "foreigners". Being able to beat the majority of a rather weak foreign scene does not make you a sick player.
If he would be a korean-based player, he wouldn't make Code S at all, not even with a decent training time of like half a year. I'm pretty sure of that.
He'd be totally irrelevant in Korea, except for his twitter drama. That's it.
[...]
Anyways, we have seen more than once that talented foreigners can keep up with Koreans given the right training and mentality (think Scarlett, Stephano, etc) and Naniwa certainly is amongst the most talented foreigners, which he has demonstrated yet again by plowing through the competition after his break.
I think our opinions differ a lot here. IMO, the "best foreigner" is at the level of skill of a "mediocre to decent Korean". There was never a point where a top foreigner could compete with a top korean. Naniwa came close to competing by two ro8 exits. He's since then relying on that - and keeping up his trash talk to stay relevant.
eh? Before KeSPA players joined Sc2 there was not that huge a gap between the best Koreans and best foreigners. I remember Jinro getting to ro4 in GSL and other players making ro8. Surely getting that far into competitions means you can compete with them?
On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote: 10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed.
Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose?
There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed.
You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series.
Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there.
would you mind to clarify what the highlighted (by me) part is supposed to mean?
If Naniwa wasn't a good player, noone would care for his intentional insults and bm.
The thing is though that he is only a good player in terms of "foreigners". Being able to beat the majority of a rather weak foreign scene does not make you a sick player.
If he would be a korean-based player, he wouldn't make Code S at all, not even with a decent training time of like half a year. I'm pretty sure of that.
He'd be totally irrelevant in Korea, except for his twitter drama. That's it.
[...]
Anyways, we have seen more than once that talented foreigners can keep up with Koreans given the right training and mentality (think Scarlett, Stephano, etc) and Naniwa certainly is amongst the most talented foreigners, which he has demonstrated yet again by plowing through the competition after his break.
I think our opinions differ a lot here. IMO, the "best foreigner" is at the level of skill of a "mediocre to decent Korean". There was never a point where a top foreigner could compete with a top korean. Naniwa came close to competing by two ro8 exits. He's since then relying on that - and keeping up his trash talk to stay relevant.
Naniwa has been the only one that can compete with ALL koreans, yes top of the top too, he got nothing more to prove imo. Ask any korean progamer whos the best foreigner of all time, i bet 90% will say Naniwa.
On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote: 10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed.
Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose?
There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed.
You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series.
Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there.
would you mind to clarify what the highlighted (by me) part is supposed to mean?
If Naniwa wasn't a good player, noone would care for his intentional insults and bm.
The thing is though that he is only a good player in terms of "foreigners". Being able to beat the majority of a rather weak foreign scene does not make you a sick player.
If he would be a korean-based player, he wouldn't make Code S at all, not even with a decent training time of like half a year. I'm pretty sure of that.
He'd be totally irrelevant in Korea, except for his twitter drama. That's it.
[...]
Anyways, we have seen more than once that talented foreigners can keep up with Koreans given the right training and mentality (think Scarlett, Stephano, etc) and Naniwa certainly is amongst the most talented foreigners, which he has demonstrated yet again by plowing through the competition after his break.
I think our opinions differ a lot here. IMO, the "best foreigner" is at the level of skill of a "mediocre to decent Korean". There was never a point where a top foreigner could compete with a top korean. Naniwa came close to competing by two ro8 exits. He's since then relying on that - and keeping up his trash talk to stay relevant.
Naniwa has been the only one that can compete with ALL koreans, yes top of the top too, he got nothing more to prove imo. Ask any korean progamer whos the best foreigner of all time, i bet 90% will say Naniwa.
Not to take any credit from Nani since he IS one of the best foreigners ever, but I doubt 90% will say Naniwa.
On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote: 10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed.
Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose?
There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed.
You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series.
Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there.
would you mind to clarify what the highlighted (by me) part is supposed to mean?
If Naniwa wasn't a good player, noone would care for his intentional insults and bm.
The thing is though that he is only a good player in terms of "foreigners". Being able to beat the majority of a rather weak foreign scene does not make you a sick player.
If he would be a korean-based player, he wouldn't make Code S at all, not even with a decent training time of like half a year. I'm pretty sure of that.
He'd be totally irrelevant in Korea, except for his twitter drama. That's it.
[...]
Anyways, we have seen more than once that talented foreigners can keep up with Koreans given the right training and mentality (think Scarlett, Stephano, etc) and Naniwa certainly is amongst the most talented foreigners, which he has demonstrated yet again by plowing through the competition after his break.
I think our opinions differ a lot here. IMO, the "best foreigner" is at the level of skill of a "mediocre to decent Korean". There was never a point where a top foreigner could compete with a top korean. Naniwa came close to competing by two ro8 exits. He's since then relying on that - and keeping up his trash talk to stay relevant.
Naniwa has been the only one that can compete with ALL koreans, yes top of the top too, he got nothing more to prove imo. Ask any korean progamer whos the best foreigner of all time, i bet 90% will say Naniwa.
Not to take any credit from Nani since he IS one of the best foreigners ever, but I doubt 90% will say Naniwa.
Yeah, Stephano and Scarlett have close to as much right to that title as NaNiwa does. MajOr also seemed to be pretty well respected in the Team 8 house at the time as well, despite not getting much playtime.
I agree though, NaNiwa is at least a top 3 foreigner of all-time. There are other players who have been good at their respective times (Jinro, IdrA, HuK, Sen, ThorZaIN, VortiX), but I think that NaNiwa was probably better than all of them at his prime than when they were at their primes.
Serious: Bunny's not really on the same level as the other players in the poll. He had a couple of really good runs, but nowhere near the level of success as the others. Snute, Stephano, Scarlett, NaNiwa, HuK, Jinro, ThorZaIN and VortiX are by far the most successful foreigners ever. I can't really think of anyone else who really came close to their success, other than possibly Sen.
Scoobers definitely should be on there though. He just blew JD out of the water in that series.
Serious: Bunny's not really on the same level as the other players in the poll. He had a couple of really good runs, but nowhere near the level of success as the others. Snute, Stephano, Scarlett, NaNiwa, HuK, Jinro, ThorZaIN and VortiX are by far the most successful foreigners ever. I can't really think of anyone else who really came close to their success, other than possibly Sen.
Scoobers definitely should be on there though. He just blew JD out of the water in that series.
Best foreigner, not most successful. If we're talking success, it's down to NaNi/Stephano/Sen.
Serious: Bunny's not really on the same level as the other players in the poll. He had a couple of really good runs, but nowhere near the level of success as the others. Snute, Stephano, Scarlett, NaNiwa, HuK, Jinro, ThorZaIN and VortiX are by far the most successful foreigners ever. I can't really think of anyone else who really came close to their success, other than possibly Sen.
Scoobers definitely should be on there though. He just blew JD out of the water in that series.
Serious: Bunny's not really on the same level as the other players in the poll. He had a couple of really good runs, but nowhere near the level of success as the others. Snute, Stephano, Scarlett, NaNiwa, HuK, Jinro, ThorZaIN and VortiX are by far the most successful foreigners ever. I can't really think of anyone else who really came close to their success, other than possibly Sen.
Scoobers definitely should be on there though. He just blew JD out of the water in that series.
That's quite true as well. MaNa probably should be included, but even then I'm pretty sure it would be hard to make a case that he's as good as Snute, Stephano, Scarlett, and NaNiwa. Those 4 are by far the most successful foreigners in SC2. I think one could make the argument that MajOr has the potential to be one of the best foreigners, but given his lack of results it's kind of hard to substantiate that claim.
Serious: Bunny's not really on the same level as the other players in the poll. He had a couple of really good runs, but nowhere near the level of success as the others. Snute, Stephano, Scarlett, NaNiwa, HuK, Jinro, ThorZaIN and VortiX are by far the most successful foreigners ever. I can't really think of anyone else who really came close to their success, other than possibly Sen.
Scoobers definitely should be on there though. He just blew JD out of the water in that series.
That's quite true as well. MaNa probably should be included, but even then I'm pretty sure it would be hard to make a case that he's as good as Snute, Stephano, Scarlett, and NaNiwa. Those 4 are by far the most successful foreigners in SC2. I think one could make the argument that MajOr has the potential to be one of the best foreigners, but given his lack of results it's kind of hard to substantiate that claim.
Well, personally I think I might as well just made a poll with NaNi and Steph
Serious: Bunny's not really on the same level as the other players in the poll. He had a couple of really good runs, but nowhere near the level of success as the others. Snute, Stephano, Scarlett, NaNiwa, HuK, Jinro, ThorZaIN and VortiX are by far the most successful foreigners ever. I can't really think of anyone else who really came close to their success, other than possibly Sen.
Scoobers definitely should be on there though. He just blew JD out of the water in that series.
Best foreigner, not most successful. If we're talking success, it's down to NaNi/Stephano/Sen.
Snute Mana Huk und Nerchio are also up there when it comes to success
Stephano being Number 1 (just going by who has earned the most) and Nani Number 2 and then everyone else slightly above 100k
I guess if we just go by who is the best foreigner from the beginning of SC2 till now I think the only real competition Naniwa has is Stephano but he is retired. So we would have to see if Huk and Nerchio can manage to find their old form and how Snute, Bunny, Sen are gonna do this year
On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote: 10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed.
Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose?
There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed.
You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series.
Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there.
would you mind to clarify what the highlighted (by me) part is supposed to mean?
If Naniwa wasn't a good player, noone would care for his intentional insults and bm.
The thing is though that he is only a good player in terms of "foreigners". Being able to beat the majority of a rather weak foreign scene does not make you a sick player.
If he would be a korean-based player, he wouldn't make Code S at all, not even with a decent training time of like half a year. I'm pretty sure of that.
He'd be totally irrelevant in Korea, except for his twitter drama. That's it.
[...]
Anyways, we have seen more than once that talented foreigners can keep up with Koreans given the right training and mentality (think Scarlett, Stephano, etc) and Naniwa certainly is amongst the most talented foreigners, which he has demonstrated yet again by plowing through the competition after his break.
I think our opinions differ a lot here. IMO, the "best foreigner" is at the level of skill of a "mediocre to decent Korean". There was never a point where a top foreigner could compete with a top korean. Naniwa came close to competing by two ro8 exits. He's since then relying on that - and keeping up his trash talk to stay relevant.
Naniwa has been the only one that can compete with ALL koreans, yes top of the top too, he got nothing more to prove imo. Ask any korean progamer whos the best foreigner of all time, i bet 90% will say Naniwa.
Not to take any credit from Nani since he IS one of the best foreigners ever, but I doubt 90% will say Naniwa.
Yeah, Stephano and Scarlett have close to as much right to that title as NaNiwa does. MajOr also seemed to be pretty well respected in the Team 8 house at the time as well, despite not getting much playtime.
I agree though, NaNiwa is at least a top 3 foreigner of all-time. There are other players who have been good at their respective times (Jinro, IdrA, HuK, Sen, ThorZaIN, VortiX), but I think that NaNiwa was probably better than all of them at his prime than when they were at their primes.
Even as a Naniwa fan, I think, Stephano has to be the overall number 1, but how does Scarlett end up in a tier with those two? I mean, HuK, Snute, ThorZaIN, MaNa, Nerchio and Sen all won tournaments with korean competition, while she never did. I'd put her in the next tier with Idra,Vortix and the consistently forgotten Jim.
Don't really mind drama , no manners , no gg's or even a flame ingame but that was way above what the rulebook allows. I would be very suprised if that results in a warning. In my opinion a warning would mean that Naniwa gets different treatment compared to for example Lillekanin. He got a warning (in q3 or 4) before his ban for way less.
In my opinion he will be disqualified which is sad because I was looking to see one of the best or the best Protoss in Europe play again.
On January 19 2015 00:38 NarutO wrote: Don't really mind drama , no manners , no gg's or even a flame ingame but that was way above what the rulebook allows. I would be very suprised if that results in a warning. In my opinion a warning would mean that Naniwa gets different treatment compared to for example Lillekanin. He got a warning (in q3 or 4) before his ban for way less.
In my opinion he will be disqualified which is sad because I was looking to see one of the best or the best Protoss in Europe play again.
It was at least provoked by Kane, so is not neccesarily a ban (also other than Lillekanin he didin't communicate with twitchchat during the game). If this results in a ban, I expect it to be a double-ban, though, Kane raising money to have Nerchio and Naniwa having a fight is probably not wanted in the rules either.
I love Naniwa. I love how good he was (is?) and when he flames and flips out, I laugh and laugh... So I hope he comes back, better and angrier than ever. Maybe then a foreigner will take a title.
On January 18 2015 20:03 boxerfred wrote: 10% of his attitude in here and he'd be permed.
Nani is posting in here, and he is not permed. So he must be behaving a lot better here than the average community I suppose?
There are no mods on twitter. Read what I said, if he'd put only 10% of his attitude in TL posts he'd be fucking permed.
You know if you have a irrelevant guy that acts dumb, noone cares or hates (see Lillekannin). But Nani a) is a ridiculously good player and b) knows exactly what his attitude does for him and the game. I hate on him so hard because he's doing this shit all the time over and over again - on fucking purpose. If he was just another douche where you could say "well that guy is pretty dumb no need to rage or care", but he's an intelligent guy. He is sharp about the game and about who to bash in what situation, and in contrary to (e.g.) Idra, he's not at all depending on his mindset when going into series.
Naniwa is a guy that uses the fact that there is no mechanic in esports to punish his behaviour in a smart way to keep the attention sticking to him. That is all. That wouldn't be possible if he'd be a good player, but there's a difference between beating the majority of a meh foreign scene and being totally irrelevant in Korea. Nani would be totally irrelevant in Korea now, even with half a year of training down there.
would you mind to clarify what the highlighted (by me) part is supposed to mean?
If Naniwa wasn't a good player, noone would care for his intentional insults and bm.
The thing is though that he is only a good player in terms of "foreigners". Being able to beat the majority of a rather weak foreign scene does not make you a sick player.
If he would be a korean-based player, he wouldn't make Code S at all, not even with a decent training time of like half a year. I'm pretty sure of that.
He'd be totally irrelevant in Korea, except for his twitter drama. That's it.
[...]
Anyways, we have seen more than once that talented foreigners can keep up with Koreans given the right training and mentality (think Scarlett, Stephano, etc) and Naniwa certainly is amongst the most talented foreigners, which he has demonstrated yet again by plowing through the competition after his break.
I think our opinions differ a lot here. IMO, the "best foreigner" is at the level of skill of a "mediocre to decent Korean". There was never a point where a top foreigner could compete with a top korean. Naniwa came close to competing by two ro8 exits. He's since then relying on that - and keeping up his trash talk to stay relevant.
Naniwa has been the only one that can compete with ALL koreans, yes top of the top too, he got nothing more to prove imo. Ask any korean progamer whos the best foreigner of all time, i bet 90% will say Naniwa.
Not to take any credit from Nani since he IS one of the best foreigners ever, but I doubt 90% will say Naniwa.
Yeah I remember Day9 saying in an interview that eliminating Naniwa was like a point of pride for the Koreans because they didn't like his bad manner or something. I'd be willing to bet a lot of them would say Scarlett or Stephano just because they don't like him. Objectively it's pretty close between him and Stephano probably
On January 19 2015 01:13 Incognoto wrote: so what am i supposed to do? like naniwa or dislike him? someone please decide for me
Don't make a rational decesion. Just observe the scene for a while. If you get annoyed by his twitter comments, root against him. If you get hyped watching his games, root for him. In my experience making a decision on whether you like someone or not isn't that useful, it just kind of happens.
On January 19 2015 01:18 Nebuchad wrote: A bunch of people united in criticizing one guy, but it's okay, we're all safe cause of our knowledge that we're the good guys.
On January 19 2015 01:13 Incognoto wrote: so what am i supposed to do? like naniwa or dislike him? someone please decide for me
Don't make a rational decesion. Just observe the scene for a while. If you get annoyed by his twitter comments, root against him. If you get hyped watching his games, root for him. In my experience making a decision on whether you like someone or not isn't that useful, it just kind of happens.
actually i just realized i don't even care at all about the drama. i find it surprising that people do, when there are more interesting things going on than naniwa being rude to people. screw that, is it surprising that people are rude to each other on the internet? :o
On January 19 2015 01:13 Incognoto wrote: so what am i supposed to do? like naniwa or dislike him? someone please decide for me
Don't make a rational decesion. Just observe the scene for a while. If you get annoyed by his twitter comments, root against him. If you get hyped watching his games, root for him. In my experience making a decision on whether you like someone or not isn't that useful, it just kind of happens.
actually i just realized i don't even care at all about the drama. i find it surprising that people do, when there are more interesting things going on than naniwa being rude to people. screw that, is it surprising that people are rude to each other on the internet? :o
On January 19 2015 01:42 lichter wrote: if i replaced the entire article with gibberish now, i wonder if people will notice
Lorem ipsum NaNiwa sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Sed commodo lorem eget eros NaNiwa tempor. Nullam iaculis dolor sit amet enim condimentum, a porta eros pulvinar. Suspendisse ac ex non mi facilisis viverra. Donec sagittis ac ligula vel malesuada. Pellentesque aliquam lacinia lorem at faucibus. Maecenas sed accumsan tellus, a commodo nisi. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; NaNiwa a aliquam est. Ut quis magna vel tortor blandit egestas vitae non diam. In id urna pharetra, bibendum dolor pellentesque, elementum nulla. Donec elementum maximus massa vitae venenatis. Interdum et malesuada fames ac ante ipsum primis in faucibus. Donec et nibh erat. Integer luctus sagittis tortor. Ut semper est ut neque convallis volutpat. Donec venenatis, ipsum nec condimentum sollicitudin, nibh mauris eleifend lorem, NaNiwa blandit enim urna vitae purus.
Etiam et gravida mi. In luctus augue ut porta tristique. Nullam posuere arcu lorem. Cras maximus ut nunc nec rutrum. Sed eu purus in tortor placerat vulputate vitae non ligula. Nullam quis lobortis tortor, sit amet dignissim ipsum. Nam lacinia dui ante, eget mollis dui NaNiwa et. Nam at feugiat felis. NaNiwa viverra ligula vel felis sodales aliquam. Donec quis dui massa. Cras gravida tempor libero ac accumsan. Cras scelerisque at mi id rutrum. Quisque convallis arcu vel nibh elementum varius. Nam in accumsan leo, viverra varius NaNiwa.
On January 19 2015 01:47 Yorkie wrote: Ugh does this guy really deserve an article at this point rofl
Whether or not you like him is irrelevant to articles. Articles is all about how many that read them, and judging by the number of posts here it was a lot of ppl who read it.
On January 19 2015 01:42 lichter wrote: if i replaced the entire article with gibberish now, i wonder if people will notice
Lorem ipsum NaNiwa sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Sed commodo lorem eget eros NaNiwa tempor. Nullam iaculis dolor sit amet enim condimentum, a porta eros pulvinar. Suspendisse ac ex non mi facilisis viverra. Donec sagittis ac ligula vel malesuada. Pellentesque aliquam lacinia lorem at faucibus. Maecenas sed accumsan tellus, a commodo nisi. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; NaNiwa a aliquam est. Ut quis magna vel tortor blandit egestas vitae non diam. In id urna pharetra, bibendum dolor pellentesque, elementum nulla. Donec elementum maximus massa vitae venenatis. Interdum et malesuada fames ac ante ipsum primis in faucibus. Donec et nibh erat. Integer luctus sagittis tortor. Ut semper est ut neque convallis volutpat. Donec venenatis, ipsum nec condimentum sollicitudin, nibh mauris eleifend lorem, NaNiwa blandit enim urna vitae purus.
Etiam et gravida mi. In luctus augue ut porta tristique. Nullam posuere arcu lorem. Cras maximus ut nunc nec rutrum. Sed eu purus in tortor placerat vulputate vitae non ligula. Nullam quis lobortis tortor, sit amet dignissim ipsum. Nam lacinia dui ante, eget mollis dui NaNiwa et. Nam at feugiat felis. NaNiwa viverra ligula vel felis sodales aliquam. Donec quis dui massa. Cras gravida tempor libero ac accumsan. Cras scelerisque at mi id rutrum. Quisque convallis arcu vel nibh elementum varius. Nam in accumsan leo, viverra varius NaNiwa.
I just realized that everything NaNiwa says instantly becomes toxic, since even his positive remarks could be considered to be left-handed compliments.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
The more white dudes who can beat Koreans the beeter. Nani has been the best at doing that.
This is soooooooooo racist. Patheic
1.Don't be oversensitive. Nothing is "soooooo racist" just because there's something with race in it.
2. That was actually a refence to a phrase Moon has said after winning an IEM tournament back in 2011. "Koreans own white dudes" and White dudes own Koreans" is a meme in the SC2 community since then.
(Fischer played for himself mostly... played to win... was known for complaining about match conditions and threatening to withdraw from events... was known for accusing the Russians (equivalent to Koreans for Starcraft) of conspiring against him...
On January 19 2015 02:20 boxerfred wrote: I actually want more swarm host-like units
Wut? Why?
it would get naniwa leave the scene again
But what then?
We can't kill the entirety of Starcraftdom to get to one guy! That would be like invading Afghanistan just to find Bin Laden!
Yeah that would be stupid. I knew people would hate on Nani and they would talk about him a lot. I just think making him leave the scene again would be stupid. Sure he is a controversial character and he deserves some of the shit he gets. Still he is a great player and a great addition to the foreign Scene.
Just cheer for the other guy if you do not like him
On January 19 2015 02:45 ClueClueClue wrote: I just realized that everything NaNiwa says instantly becomes toxic, since even his positive remarks could be considered to be left-handed compliments.
I think the right term is "back-handed". And yes, I know that Naniwa's left-handed.
On January 19 2015 02:45 ClueClueClue wrote: I just realized that everything NaNiwa says instantly becomes toxic, since even his positive remarks could be considered to be left-handed compliments.
I think the right term is "back-handed". And yes, I know that Naniwa's left-handed.
I handed the joke to you, and you just left it lying there! For shame!
On January 19 2015 03:02 Starecat wrote: He is an idiot and Protoss player this combo is worse than Hitler.
Next time a stand-up comedian makes a funny comparison, I'm gonna burst up on stage, grab the mic and say "Imma let you finish, but Starecat made one of the best comparisons of all time!". Protoss players worse than Hitler, good one.
On January 19 2015 03:02 Starecat wrote: He is an idiot and Protoss player this combo is worse than Hitler.
Next time a stand-up comedian makes a funny comparison, I'm gonna burst up on stage, grab the mic and say "Imma let you finish, but Starecat made one of the best comparisons of all time!". Protoss players worse than Hitler, good one.
Nani's ego walked into a bar, there was no counter.
I hope it's not a sign of onset of depression, but personally I couldn't care less about petty drama in sc2. I really marvel at all those people positively filled with glee that two players insulted each other, as if it's the highlight of their day.
Reason: You're on your second account and continue to be a terrible poster. If you really don't value your account that much, we're happy to take it away from you. If you want to shitpost go to Reddit or something.
Reason: You're on your second account and continue to be a terrible poster. If you really don't value your account that much, we're happy to take it away from you. If you want to shitpost go to Reddit or something.
surprising considering how he posted in the thread
On January 19 2015 03:02 Starecat wrote: He is an idiot and Protoss player this combo is worse than Hitler.
Hitler, no skill all-inner.
Those damn turtling Russians.
Well, that's what you get for unallying.
Wow, happy 2000th post by the way.
I just registered to thank you! And to earn a permaban. Anyone who reads my post history sees that my posts are generally friendly and articulate. Whatever. Bye everyone!
Reason: You're on your second account and continue to be a terrible poster. If you really don't value your account that much, we're happy to take it away from you. If you want to shitpost go to Reddit or something.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
Oh God , that's just fucking weak , if he wants to kick Naniwa's ass , he should man up and do it himself.
Oh the other hand I would pay money for a Naniwa vs Nerchiro CHESS BOXING match with sc2 instead of chess , we got resume from replay now ffs ! SOMEBODY MAKE IT HAPPEN !
On January 19 2015 03:02 Starecat wrote: He is an idiot and Protoss player this combo is worse than Hitler.
Hitler, no skill all-inner.
Those damn turtling Russians.
Well, that's what you get for unallying.
Wow, happy 2000th post by the way.
I just registered to thank you! And to earn a permaban. Anyone who reads my post history sees that my posts are generally friendly and articulate. Whatever. Bye everyone!
Reason: You're on your second account and continue to be a terrible poster. If you really don't value your account that much, we're happy to take it away from you. If you want to shitpost go to Reddit or something.
Reason: You're on your second account and continue to be a terrible poster. If you really don't value your account that much, we're happy to take it away from you. If you want to shitpost go to Reddit or something.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
On January 18 2015 14:04 mYiKane wrote:
On January 18 2015 14:00 Jornada wrote:
On January 18 2015 13:49 mYiKane wrote:
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
Oh God , that's just fucking weak , if he wants to kick Naniwa's ass , he should man up and do it himself.
Oh the other hand I would pay money for a Naniwa vs Nerchiro CHESS BOXING match with sc2 instead of chess , we got resume from replay now ffs ! SOMEBODY MAKE IT HAPPEN !
I think you're missing the joke here. Nerchio weighs somewhere in the region of a whopping 67 pounds. Naniwa wouldn't be the one getting his ass kicked most likely. It's just a jab
But about Kane's tweet to Psione.... that was pretty weak. I understand being sensitive about the leg but to my knowledge he hasn't established that it's in the "no joke" zone. Naniwa shouldn't have gone there, but I'm not sure it was so over the top that we need to get Blizzard in on this.
Gotta love when nerds say they'll fight each other in real life lol.Unless Nerchio never said that and Kane just trying to stir the pot. Not like NaNiwa is a hacker or anything if you don't like him that much just squelch him and beat him in Sc2.
And a majority of fans focus on either one or the other as though they were two separate, distinct parts. I believe this is a flawed simplification of who or what Naniwa is.
yet this article is a long drawn out simplification of it. all it does is note all of his accomplishments while also mentioning all of his controversies. why was this even written? this is something youd find in his liquipedia page..
Naniwa definitely has a short temper. It seems to me that because of his reputation, he is quickly demonized for any action that could be perceived as negative. Is it really that BM to complain about stream cheating or soundproofing when there is a legitimate issue? I love Naniwa for his raw talent, his ability to pick up the game seemingly without any effort. I love NaNiwa for being the only foreigner to consistently compete with the top Koreans. I love NaNiwa for beating MVP AND Nestea in macro games when they were both seemingly invincible. I love him for his acerbic wit and scathing commentary. He wears his heart on his sleeve, sure, but some people might say that trait is commendable. You certainly can't accuse him of being dishonest. I'm glad he's back. Gogo NaNiwa fighting!
On January 18 2015 22:31 messioso wrote: The Russian stream had 0 delay beyond standard Twitch delay. If they didn't, I wouldn't have removed them.
On January 18 2015 22:40 messioso wrote: I find it can range from anything to 10-50 seconds usually.
You were told like billion times that there was a delay but you are still writing everywhere that it was not. What is the goal of it? You're not the usual forum guy like some people here, you're the org who should be responsible for your own words. Are you trying to acquit your behavior when you kicked casters without any particular reason, just because NaNiwa wanted that to happen or are there any other reasons for that? Here are the proofs if someone doesn't believe hundreds of russian viewers yet: VOD timing, where you can easily see, that there is a delay set in a Twitch panel. You can see that it is set to 2 minutes, which actually means that real delay was close to 3 mins (impossible to say exactly) due to standart Twitch encoding delay (And again: I agree that it was a bit less than on other streams - a minute or maybe even two - and blablabla, but that's not as important here as the fact that there was a delay big enough to prevent any sort of cheeting). As for me, it's a shame that orgs of the biggest StarCraft 2 tournament sponsored by Blizzard are behaving in such a way. Please stop blaming casters left and right in every situation possible, it becomes too popular nowadays. You'd better deal with some players' manners...
On January 19 2015 04:12 tomastaz wrote: Poor Tefel
Why would you be sorry for the worst player on earht? He deserves it
earht is the alternate univese earth where everyone is a bonjwa in sc2 such that even the worst player on earht would a ten times GSL champion in this universe. It's a compliment :p Nani is merely regretting his miscalculate play against such a god.
On January 19 2015 04:12 tomastaz wrote: Poor Tefel
Why poor Tefel? He owned Nani in that match and thanks to Nani's rage at losing, Tefel is known throughout the entire Starcraft community as one of rather few guys who beat Nani when Nani was taking on Korea at full speed.
Player Rules and Responsibilities 16.0 Player Code of Conduct
B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
17.0 Player Code of Conduct Offenses
B. Violations of the Code of Conduct may vary including a warning, an immediate disqualification, removal from the tournament, and/or restriction from participation in future events.
On January 19 2015 04:38 corona_0489k wrote: Naniwa is the equivalent to Eminem in the SC2 community.
Nah more like Kanye West. Highly controversial in the past years but still brilliant. At least in my opinion.
I said'a blink, blunk, I'm blinkin', I'm blinkin' without thinkin', baby, don't stop the all-in cause a GG's what I'm playin' for When I'm blinkin' to the rhytm, the beat
Player Rules and Responsibilities 16.0 Player Code of Conduct
B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
17.0 Player Code of Conduct Offenses
B. Violations of the Code of Conduct may vary including a warning, an immediate disqualification, removal from the tournament, and/or restriction from participation in future events.
Now what you see is not halluc; my stalkers have arrived And they'll blink until the light of day, even if I'm gas deprived See, I am the NaNiwa, and I would like to tweet hello To the toss and the zerg and the terran out there, and a guy called Nerchio But first I gotta flame flame, I glitter while I twitter I'm not bitter, but I'm known to be a quitter Let's rock, we don't stop till the manner nexi drop Even if I flop, I'm bringin it over the top
On January 19 2015 06:50 ClueClueClue wrote: Now what you see is not halluc; my stalkers have arrived And they'll blink until the light of day, even if I'm gas deprived See, I am the NaNiwa, and I would like to tweet hello To the toss and the zerg and the terran out there, and a guy called Nerchio But first I gotta flame flame, I glitter while I twitter I'm not bitter, but I'm known to be a quitter Let's rock, we don't stop till the manner nexi drop Even if I flop, I'm bringin it over the top
On January 19 2015 06:50 ClueClueClue wrote: Now what you see is not halluc; my stalkers have arrived And they'll blink until the light of day, even if I'm gas deprived See, I am the NaNiwa, and I would like to tweet hello To the toss and the zerg and the terran out there, and a guy called Nerchio But first I gotta flame flame, I glitter while I twitter I'm not bitter, but I'm known to be a quitter Let's rock, we don't stop till the manner nexi drop Even if I flop, I'm bringin it over the top
On January 19 2015 06:50 ClueClueClue wrote: Now what you see is not halluc; my stalkers have arrived And they'll blink until the light of day, even if I'm gas deprived See, I am the NaNiwa, and I would like to tweet hello To the toss and the zerg and the terran out there, and a guy called Nerchio But first I gotta flame flame, I glitter while I twitter I'm not bitter, but I'm known to be a quitter Let's rock, we don't stop till the manner nexi drop Even if I flop, I'm bringin it over the top
On January 19 2015 04:38 corona_0489k wrote: Naniwa is the equivalent to Eminem in the SC2 community.
Nah more like Kanye West. Highly controversial in the past years but still brilliant. At least in my opinion.
I said'a blink, blunk, I'm blinkin', I'm blinkin' without thinkin', baby, don't stop the all-in cause a GG's what I'm playin' for When I'm blinkin' to the rhytm, the beat
On January 19 2015 06:50 ClueClueClue wrote: Now what you see is not halluc; my stalkers have arrived And they'll blink until the light of day, even if I'm gas deprived See, I am the NaNiwa, and I would like to tweet hello To the toss and the zerg and the terran out there, and a guy called Nerchio But first I gotta flame flame, I glitter while I twitter I'm not bitter, but I'm known to be a quitter Let's rock, we don't stop till the manner nexi drop Even if I flop, I'm bringin it over the top
On January 19 2015 07:02 boxerfred wrote: Still no DQ for Naniwa? wow
Are you really expecting rules to be enforced against a player who'll bring tons of viewer ? (it could be nani or anyone for that matter, you can be pretty sure double standard will be applied)
On January 19 2015 07:02 boxerfred wrote: Still no DQ for Naniwa? wow
It's not like any of this is unprovoked. It's pretty unsportsmanlike to put money up for people to beat each other up, and to generally talk shit about nani in the first place, saying stuff like "he'll get boo'd into retirement".
If anything I'd expect both to get a slap for it.
Not that any of this matters because we're getting on the hype train and there IS NO BRAKES
It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
a "good person" lol. that would require a social iq above average mr. internet nerd. ur self proclaimed manners while insulting another pro gamer and flaming some guy back on a forum is so fake and pathetic its really sad to watch. plz stop embarrassing urself thx.
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Another possibility is that the author just learned of the word "pariah" and decided to attach it to some rude guy playing video games. I can't blame him, "pariah" is a cool word.
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Not really. You are talking about the group of people that translate a traffic accident as entertainment in their empty lives, and lack the empathy to do nothing else but laugh.
eSport is not built on drama, but the games themselves. If not, it lacks quality in itself. Players should be treated with some respect, not targeted as fun humor.
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Not really. You are talking about the group of people that translate a traffic accident as entertainment in their empty lives, and lack the empathy to do nothing else but laugh.
eSport is not built on drama, but the games themselves. If not, it lacks quality in itself. Players should be treated with some respect, not targeted as fun humor.
Woah buddy, there's no need to incite people to run Naniwa over with a car, that's stepping wayyy over the boundaries.
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Not really. You are talking about the group of people that translate a traffic accident as entertainment in their empty lives, and lack the empathy to do nothing else but laugh.
eSport is not built on drama, but the games themselves. If not, it lacks quality in itself. Players should be treated with some respect, not targeted as fun humor.
Haha, om my god; I think its you who's lacking some empathy xD
On January 19 2015 07:31 ZenithM wrote: Another possibility is that the author just learned of the word "pariah" and decided to attach it to some rude guy playing video games. I can't blame him, "pariah" is a cool word.
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Not really. You are talking about the group of people that translate a traffic accident as entertainment in their empty lives, and lack the empathy to do nothing else but laugh.
eSport is not built on drama, but the games themselves. If not, it lacks quality in itself. Players should be treated with some respect, not targeted as fun humor.
I agree its not build on drama, but the drama will attract more attention. When rivalries and grudges occur, the games become more entertaining.
Dana White understands how the drama can bring in more viewers; he signed Brock Lesnar for that very reason. Of course, the fighter/player has to have the skills necessary to enter the octagon/sit behind the screen.
I enjoy watching Naniwa because he is a beast at this game, but also because I want to see someone stomp him.
Is drama necessary to garner more attention? No. Will drama garner more attention? Yes.
I am not saying Starcraft 2 needs players like Naniwa and Idra, but when we do have these kinds of characters it makes the games more enjoyable.
To Naniwa, I wish you the best of luck, and I truly hope you make it to Premier league. I also hope that you get floor stomped in the Challenger league.
You are the only player that I will cheer and jeer. Keep on doing what you are doing. I am glad you are back.
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
I have to respectfully disagree Guitars. This article is absolutely necessary. In fact, I was waiting for someone to do a write-up on his return.
Why do I feel its necessary? Because its Naniwa! I was hoping for a more polarized article totally bashing him, but instead we got a slightly unbiased piece that successfully shows Naniwa from two angles.
@Dracolich70, when Dana White signed Brock Lesnar, UFC wasn't in desperate times. It was prospering quite well.
The audience loves having a bad guy to hate, which is why WWE is so popular. Everyone knows its fake, but millions across the globe still loves watching it. Its a formula that has worked before, and works in esports.
On January 19 2015 09:36 lichter wrote: I like how so many people post to complain about the existence of this article while neglecting all the dozen articles we do each week.
On January 19 2015 09:36 lichter wrote: I like how so many people post to complain about the existence of this article while neglecting all the dozen articles we do each week.
Avilo is definitely the NA version of Naniwa. Of course, avilo is even more "amazing" considering his level of skills. Has avilo ever qualified in anything yet??
On January 18 2015 14:33 Circumstance wrote: Under an hour, two pages, a spillover onto Twitter, and a grudge between two players already in Challenger.
Damn if the dude doesn't get people's attention.
Exactly! NaNi saving eSports. Rivalries galore! WE NEEDED THIS.
On January 19 2015 09:51 eVilo wrote: Avilo is definitely the NA version of Naniwa. Of course, avilo is even more "amazing" considering his level of skills. Has avilo ever qualified in anything yet??
On January 19 2015 09:51 eVilo wrote: Avilo is definitely the NA version of Naniwa. Of course, avilo is even more "amazing" considering his level of skills. Has avilo ever qualified in anything yet??
avilo has never done anything noteworthy, and Naniwa doesn't needlessly balance whine as much.
On January 19 2015 09:36 lichter wrote: I like how so many people post to complain about the existence of this article while neglecting all the dozen articles we do each week.
On January 19 2015 09:51 eVilo wrote: Avilo is definitely the NA version of Naniwa. Of course, avilo is even more "amazing" considering his level of skills. Has avilo ever qualified in anything yet??
On January 19 2015 09:36 lichter wrote: I like how so many people post to complain about the existence of this article while neglecting all the dozen articles we do each week.
Fishing for compliments?
lichter has good fashion sense AND writes about SC2, he deserves compliments
On January 19 2015 09:36 lichter wrote: I like how so many people post to complain about the existence of this article while neglecting all the dozen articles we do each week.
On January 19 2015 09:36 lichter wrote: I like how so many people post to complain about the existence of this article while neglecting all the dozen articles we do each week.
On January 19 2015 09:36 lichter wrote: I like how so many people post to complain about the existence of this article while neglecting all the dozen articles we do each week.
Fishing for compliments?
lichter has good fashion sense AND writes about SC2, he deserves compliments
Interesting taste in music too, and he listens to a FUCK TON of music.
On January 19 2015 09:51 eVilo wrote: Avilo is definitely the NA version of Naniwa. Of course, avilo is even more "amazing" considering his level of skills. Has avilo ever qualified in anything yet??
Avilo cant be the NA Naniwa cause he aint good.
If Avilo ever smartened up and really tried to go pro, he could definitely be the NA Naniwa. He isn't great, but he is not a scrub either.
With that being said, I like watching Avilo get crushed. While I also enjoy watching Naniwa get crushed, I also enjoy watching Naniwa do the crushing.
Avilo is a ladder hero that complains about balance. Naniwa is the anti-hero that complains about soundbooth problems. Totally not the same.
On January 19 2015 09:36 lichter wrote: I like how so many people post to complain about the existence of this article while neglecting all the dozen articles we do each week.
Fishing for compliments?
lichter has good fashion sense AND writes about SC2, he deserves compliments
Interesting taste in music too, and he listens to a FUCK TON of music.
On January 19 2015 09:36 lichter wrote: I like how so many people post to complain about the existence of this article while neglecting all the dozen articles we do each week.
Fishing for compliments?
lichter has good fashion sense AND writes about SC2, he deserves compliments
Interesting taste in music too, and he listens to a FUCK TON of music.
On January 19 2015 09:36 lichter wrote: I like how so many people post to complain about the existence of this article while neglecting all the dozen articles we do each week.
Fishing for compliments?
lichter has good fashion sense AND writes about SC2, he deserves compliments
Interesting taste in music too, and he listens to a FUCK TON of music.
On January 19 2015 09:51 eVilo wrote: Avilo is definitely the NA version of Naniwa. Of course, avilo is even more "amazing" considering his level of skills. Has avilo ever qualified in anything yet??
Avilo cant be the NA Naniwa cause he aint good.
If Avilo ever smartened up and really tried to go pro, he could definitely be the NA Naniwa. He isn't great, but he is not a scrub either.
With that being said, I like watching Avilo get crushed. While I also enjoy watching Naniwa get crushed, I also enjoy watching Naniwa do the crushing.
Avilo is a ladder hero that complains about balance. Naniwa is the anti-hero that complains about soundbooth problems. Totally not the same.
Avilo is a ladder hero and a maphack detective even better than Sherlock. It was revealed in avilo's stream that Polt maphacked on NA ladder (if you really believe what avilo claimed). He is a hero for complaining everything except terran and mass ravens. He is a hero coz he never loses to good players but only bad players, maphackers and streamsnipers.
On January 19 2015 09:51 eVilo wrote: Avilo is definitely the NA version of Naniwa. Of course, avilo is even more "amazing" considering his level of skills. Has avilo ever qualified in anything yet??
Avilo cant be the NA Naniwa cause he aint good.
If Avilo ever smartened up and really tried to go pro, he could definitely be the NA Naniwa. He isn't great, but he is not a scrub either.
With that being said, I like watching Avilo get crushed. While I also enjoy watching Naniwa get crushed, I also enjoy watching Naniwa do the crushing.
Avilo is a ladder hero that complains about balance. Naniwa is the anti-hero that complains about soundbooth problems. Totally not the same.
Avilo is a ladder hero and a maphack detective even better than Sherlock. It was revealed in avilo's stream that Polt maphacked on NA ladder (if you really believe what avilo claimed). He is a hero for complaining everything except terran and mass ravens. He is a hero coz he never loses to good players but only bad players, maphackers and streamsnipers.
Whether he can reliably detect a maphacker is irrelevant.
Regarding the part I bolded, if he loses to bad players, what does that make him?
Honestly, I don't even know why I am entertaining the trolls. You are probably Avilo himself trying to shamelessly promote yourself.
Please don't answer my question, because I will now stop replying to any of your comments.
I'm interested in why the author "wouldn't have it any other way" with regards to who Naniwa is. This directly implies that he finds value and importance in the negativity, intense flaming, and emotional drama Naniwa creates, which is actually a pretty shocking statement on its own. Now I would agree that drama can be pretty exciting, just like a TV show, but when its all said and done I think the world is a better place without Naniwa's acerbic personality.
On January 19 2015 09:51 eVilo wrote: Avilo is definitely the NA version of Naniwa. Of course, avilo is even more "amazing" considering his level of skills. Has avilo ever qualified in anything yet??
Avilo cant be the NA Naniwa cause he aint good.
If Avilo ever smartened up and really tried to go pro, he could definitely be the NA Naniwa. He isn't great, but he is not a scrub either.
With that being said, I like watching Avilo get crushed. While I also enjoy watching Naniwa get crushed, I also enjoy watching Naniwa do the crushing.
Avilo is a ladder hero that complains about balance. Naniwa is the anti-hero that complains about soundbooth problems. Totally not the same.
Avilo is a ladder hero and a maphack detective even better than Sherlock. It was revealed in avilo's stream that Polt maphacked on NA ladder (if you really believe what avilo claimed). He is a hero for complaining everything except terran and mass ravens. He is a hero coz he never loses to good players but only bad players, maphackers and streamsnipers.
Whether he can reliably detect a maphacker is irrelevant.
Regarding the part I bolded, if he loses to bad players, what does that make him?
Honestly, I don't even know why I am entertaining the trolls. You are probably Avilo himself trying to shamelessly promote yourself.
Please don't answer my question, because I will now stop replying to any of your comments.
This thread has everything. Naniwa, Nerchio, other pros, bad grammar insults, drama, rap skills :D I don't really like Naniwa but damn, this forum feels so alive right now :-O
On January 19 2015 09:51 eVilo wrote: Avilo is definitely the NA version of Naniwa. Of course, avilo is even more "amazing" considering his level of skills. Has avilo ever qualified in anything yet??
Avilo cant be the NA Naniwa cause he aint good.
If Avilo ever smartened up and really tried to go pro, he could definitely be the NA Naniwa. He isn't great, but he is not a scrub either.
With that being said, I like watching Avilo get crushed. While I also enjoy watching Naniwa get crushed, I also enjoy watching Naniwa do the crushing.
Avilo is a ladder hero that complains about balance. Naniwa is the anti-hero that complains about soundbooth problems. Totally not the same.
Avilo is a ladder hero and a maphack detective even better than Sherlock. It was revealed in avilo's stream that Polt maphacked on NA ladder (if you really believe what avilo claimed). He is a hero for complaining everything except terran and mass ravens. He is a hero coz he never loses to good players but only bad players, maphackers and streamsnipers.
Whether he can reliably detect a maphacker is irrelevant.
Regarding the part I bolded, if he loses to bad players, what does that make him?
Honestly, I don't even know why I am entertaining the trolls. You are probably Avilo himself trying to shamelessly promote yourself.
Please don't answer my question, because I will now stop replying to any of your comments.
---- Sarcasm --->
Your head.
Oh.
Moving on, I really want to see if Naniwa can deal with swarm hosts. I don't know much about Nerchio's sh usage, but I haven't seen many protoss that can reliably deal with sh that doesn't turn into the biggest snorefest ever.
I do not want to see Nerchio go sh every game. If I wanted to be in a coma, I could think of easier and less painful ways.
On January 19 2015 10:39 TheNewEra wrote: This thread has everything. Naniwa, Nerchio, other pros, bad grammar insults, drama, rap skills :D I don't really like Naniwa but damn, this forum feels so alive right now :-O
And this is exactly what I meant with my previous post,
On January 19 2015 08:34 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: I agree its not build on drama, but the drama will attract more attention. When rivalries and grudges occur, the games become more entertaining.
Dana White understands how the drama can bring in more viewers; he signed Brock Lesnar for that very reason. Of course, the fighter/player has to have the skills necessary to enter the octagon/sit behind the screen.
I enjoy watching Naniwa because he is a beast at this game, but also because I want to see someone stomp him.
Is drama necessary to garner more attention? No. Will drama garner more attention? Yes.
I am not saying Starcraft 2 needs players like Naniwa and Idra, but when we do have these kinds of characters it makes the games more enjoyable.
To Naniwa, I wish you the best of luck, and I truly hope you make it to Premier league. I also hope that you get floor stomped in the Challenger league.
You are the only player that I will cheer and jeer. Keep on doing what you are doing. I am glad you are back.
Naniwa is the only player that can generate this much buzz by himself. Sure some players have history against certain opponents (Huk vs Hyun, Bomber vs Polt, Scarlett vs Parting), but Naniwa himself generates so much buzz it doesn't matter who he plays against.
But playing against Nerchio makes this match all the more exciting.
I want to see 5 games of absolute awesomeness, and i will be happy if Naniwa loses or wins.
On January 19 2015 10:32 radscorpion9 wrote: I'm interested in why the author "wouldn't have it any other way" with regards to who Naniwa is. This directly implies that he finds value and importance in the negativity, intense flaming, and emotional drama Naniwa creates, which is actually a pretty shocking statement on its own. Now I would agree that drama can be pretty exciting, just like a TV show, but when its all said and done I think the world is a better place without Naniwa's acerbic personality.
The thing is, even if the drama he creates sounds bad, its drama that is actually good for the game.
Like, for example, maybe ESL (or dreamhack) made better their soudproffing after naniwa statements.
After the probe rush thing, GSL stopped having playings playing stupid unnecessary matches.
And the other stuff, yeh, maybe it sounds bad, but it generates hype, viewers, passion, storylines etc. He really hans't done anythhing really bad like match fixing or anything, and so, i also wouldn't have it any other way.
also if naniwa somehow beats king artur i hope he faces polt in the round of 32 and he sends him to retirement, racking up that kill count for polt to 3.
On January 19 2015 10:53 KingofdaHipHop wrote: also if naniwa somehow beats king artur i hope he faces polt in the round of 32 and he sends him to retirement, racking up that kill count for polt to 3.
Seems less interesting if it's a repeat kill though
On January 19 2015 10:53 KingofdaHipHop wrote: also if naniwa somehow beats king artur i hope he faces polt in the round of 32 and he sends him to retirement, racking up that kill count for polt to 3.
Seems less interesting if it's a repeat kill though
yeah true, polt needs to step up his foreigner career ending game. wouldn't be surprised if scarlett was next tbh
On January 19 2015 10:53 KingofdaHipHop wrote: also if naniwa somehow beats king artur i hope he faces polt in the round of 32 and he sends him to retirement, racking up that kill count for polt to 3.
Seems less interesting if it's a repeat kill though
On January 19 2015 10:53 KingofdaHipHop wrote: also if naniwa somehow beats king artur i hope he faces polt in the round of 32 and he sends him to retirement, racking up that kill count for polt to 3.
Seems less interesting if it's a repeat kill though
I actually wonder whether age correlates to whether someone likes Naniwa (or Idra, for that matter) or not. I can imagine teenagers liking his 'rebellious' attitude but (working) adults being annoyed by his constant unprofessionalism and childish behaviour.
As for me, I had hoped people like him and Idra left the scene altogether. People like them are just toxic.
On January 19 2015 15:40 maartendq wrote: I actually wonder whether age correlates to whether someone likes Naniwa or not. I can imagine teenagers liking his 'rebellious' attitude but (working) adults being annoyed by his constant unprofessionalism and childish behaviour.
As for me, I had hoped people like him and Idra left the scene altogether. People like them are just toxic.
It's that "toxicity" that keeps e-sports interesting. If I had to guess, Naniwa and Idra are two of the biggest contributors to the Starcraft 2 scene.
If you are interested, I am 21 years old, and I care far less about personalities than many people do. I care way more about skill and actual talent, which is why I liked Idra and Naniwa. Both were stubborn as hell, and both were genuine competitors.
On January 19 2015 15:40 maartendq wrote: I actually wonder whether age correlates to whether someone likes Naniwa (or Idra, for that matter) or not. I can imagine teenagers liking his 'rebellious' attitude but (working) adults being annoyed by his constant unprofessionalism and childish behaviour.
As for me, I had hoped people like him and Idra left the scene altogether. People like them are just toxic.
It might be the other way round though: Youngsters take things way to seriously, while ppl a little older become more relaxed and just enjoy the show without fearing for sc2 and the integrity of all eSports to break down
On January 19 2015 10:59 ninazerg wrote: I always stuck behind NaNiWa, and he'd pretty much have to throw a baby in front of a moving train for me to stop being a fan. He's awesome.
I dunno about that. Maybe the baby tweeted something objectionable on Twitter. So then NaNiwa would be perfectly justified in throwing the baby in front of the train.
I hope NaNiwa doesn't just lose to Nerchio if only because that would be really anticlimactic.
On January 19 2015 15:40 maartendq wrote: I actually wonder whether age correlates to whether someone likes Naniwa or not. I can imagine teenagers liking his 'rebellious' attitude but (working) adults being annoyed by his constant unprofessionalism and childish behaviour.
As for me, I had hoped people like him and Idra left the scene altogether. People like them are just toxic.
It's that "toxicity" that keeps e-sports interesting. If I had to guess, Naniwa and Idra are two of the biggest contributors to the Starcraft 2 scene.
If you are interested, I am 21 years old, and I care far less about personalities than many people do. I care way more about skill and actual talent, which is why I liked Idra and Naniwa. Both were stubborn as hell, and both were genuine competitors.
Idra (and all foreign ex-BW pros) got pushed into irrelevance as soon as they could no longer use their BW mechanics to their advantage and other people caught up. Naniwa definitely had the skill and the perseverance to compete even with the top Koreans, but he was far from the only one. Thorzain, Scarlett, Huk, and Stephano were on the same level as well, and had far more pleasant personalities.
On January 19 2015 16:05 Cascade wrote: I think it correlates with socioeconomic factors. Street credit gangsters won't be upset by his behaviour. Snobbish academics will.
I'm sorry but I can't help but notice you just said "street credit gangsters"
On January 19 2015 15:40 maartendq wrote: I actually wonder whether age correlates to whether someone likes Naniwa or not. I can imagine teenagers liking his 'rebellious' attitude but (working) adults being annoyed by his constant unprofessionalism and childish behaviour.
As for me, I had hoped people like him and Idra left the scene altogether. People like them are just toxic.
It's that "toxicity" that keeps e-sports interesting. If I had to guess, Naniwa and Idra are two of the biggest contributors to the Starcraft 2 scene.
If you are interested, I am 21 years old, and I care far less about personalities than many people do. I care way more about skill and actual talent, which is why I liked Idra and Naniwa. Both were stubborn as hell, and both were genuine competitors.
Well, I guess it's the eternal skill vs drama debate. I personally don't think that that "toxicity" is good for the scene, I think a scene is healthy when the players' skill is high and their drama low (compare the NA pro scene with the KR one), but apparently many do think the other way.
On January 19 2015 10:59 ninazerg wrote: I always stuck behind NaNiWa, and he'd pretty much have to throw a baby in front of a moving train for me to stop being a fan. He's awesome.
I always stuck behind ninazerg, and she'd pretty much have to throw Naniwa in front of a moving train for me to stop being a fan. She's awesome.
On January 19 2015 10:32 radscorpion9 wrote: I'm interested in why the author "wouldn't have it any other way" with regards to who Naniwa is. This directly implies that he finds value and importance in the negativity, intense flaming, and emotional drama Naniwa creates, which is actually a pretty shocking statement on its own. Now I would agree that drama can be pretty exciting, just like a TV show, but when its all said and done I think the world is a better place without Naniwa's acerbic personality.
The thing is, even if the drama he creates sounds bad, its drama that is actually good for the game.
Like, for example, maybe ESL (or dreamhack) made better their soudproffing after naniwa statements.
After the probe rush thing, GSL stopped having playings playing stupid unnecessary matches.
And the other stuff, yeh, maybe it sounds bad, but it generates hype, viewers, passion, storylines etc. He really hans't done anythhing really bad like match fixing or anything, and so, i also wouldn't have it any other way.
gotta say I agree so strongly with this guy. Long live NaNiwa's SC2 career
On January 19 2015 16:05 Cascade wrote: I think it correlates with socioeconomic factors. Street credit gangsters won't be upset by his behaviour. Snobbish academics will.
I'm sorry but I can't help but notice you just said "street credit gangsters"
I guess that classifies me as a snobbish academic?
On January 19 2015 15:40 maartendq wrote: I actually wonder whether age correlates to whether someone likes Naniwa or not. I can imagine teenagers liking his 'rebellious' attitude but (working) adults being annoyed by his constant unprofessionalism and childish behaviour.
As for me, I had hoped people like him and Idra left the scene altogether. People like them are just toxic.
It's that "toxicity" that keeps e-sports interesting. If I had to guess, Naniwa and Idra are two of the biggest contributors to the Starcraft 2 scene.
If you are interested, I am 21 years old, and I care far less about personalities than many people do. I care way more about skill and actual talent, which is why I liked Idra and Naniwa. Both were stubborn as hell, and both were genuine competitors.
Well, I guess it's the eternal skill vs drama debate. I personally don't think that that "toxicity" is good for the scene, I think a scene is healthy when the players' skill is high and their drama low (compare the NA pro scene with the KR one), but apparently many do think the other way.
Wow so much hate for NA. We all play the same game. How do you know there is no drama in Korea? Trust me, there is. It just doesn't make its way overseas all the time. If you're implying a correlation between drama and low skill, I think you're horribly mistaken.
On January 19 2015 15:40 maartendq wrote: I actually wonder whether age correlates to whether someone likes Naniwa or not. I can imagine teenagers liking his 'rebellious' attitude but (working) adults being annoyed by his constant unprofessionalism and childish behaviour.
As for me, I had hoped people like him and Idra left the scene altogether. People like them are just toxic.
It's that "toxicity" that keeps e-sports interesting. If I had to guess, Naniwa and Idra are two of the biggest contributors to the Starcraft 2 scene.
If you are interested, I am 21 years old, and I care far less about personalities than many people do. I care way more about skill and actual talent, which is why I liked Idra and Naniwa. Both were stubborn as hell, and both were genuine competitors.
Well, I guess it's the eternal skill vs drama debate. I personally don't think that that "toxicity" is good for the scene, I think a scene is healthy when the players' skill is high and their drama low (compare the NA pro scene with the KR one), but apparently many do think the other way.
Wow so much hate for NA. We all play the same game. How do you know there is no drama in Korea? Trust me, there is. It just doesn't make its way overseas all the time. If you're implying a correlation between drama and low skill, I think you're horribly mistaken.
I'm not hating on NA, there was a video some times ago in which NA players themselves (Kane and Suppy iirc?) were saying that the NA scene was more concerned about drama than about the game itself. Sorry if I have misunderstood that video though. And there is probably drama in Korea ofc, but there are no twitter wars like here, no very visible drama. There is obviously little to no correlation between drama and low skill, Naniwa being the living proof of that. I just think that in general when people care more about drama they care less about the games and vice versa.
On January 19 2015 16:05 Cascade wrote: I think it correlates with socioeconomic factors. Street credit gangsters won't be upset by his behaviour. Snobbish academics will.
I'm sorry but I can't help but notice you just said "street credit gangsters"
I guess that classifies me as a snobbish academic?
Nothing wrong with having high standards when it comes to manners, as far as I know.
On January 19 2015 16:05 Cascade wrote: I think it correlates with socioeconomic factors. Street credit gangsters won't be upset by his behaviour. Snobbish academics will.
I'm sorry but I can't help but notice you just said "street credit gangsters"
I guess that classifies me as a snobbish academic?
On January 19 2015 09:51 eVilo wrote: Avilo is definitely the NA version of Naniwa. Of course, avilo is even more "amazing" considering his level of skills. Has avilo ever qualified in anything yet??
avilo has never done anything noteworthy, and Naniwa doesn't needlessly balance whine as much.
On January 19 2015 09:51 eVilo wrote: Avilo is definitely the NA version of Naniwa. Of course, avilo is even more "amazing" considering his level of skills. Has avilo ever qualified in anything yet??
avilo has never done anything noteworthy, and Naniwa doesn't needlessly balance whine as much.
On January 19 2015 07:31 ZenithM wrote: Another possibility is that the author just learned of the word "pariah" and decided to attach it to some rude guy playing video games. I can't blame him, "pariah" is a cool word.
my favorite magic card. So many ways to use it!
Also a really cool necron unit, which was sadly scrapped.
I always stuck behind NaNiWa, and he'd pretty much have to throw a baby in front of a moving train for me to stop being a fan. He's awesome.
Why would this stop you from being a fan? It's just Swedish culture.
On January 19 2015 10:59 ninazerg wrote: I always stuck behind NaNiWa, and he'd pretty much have to throw a baby in front of a moving train for me to stop being a fan. He's awesome.
I always stuck behind ninazerg, and she'd pretty much have to throw Naniwa in front of a moving train for me to stop being a fan. She's awesome.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
That's a pretty hypocritical statement right there.. Attacking both Naniwa and a random TL fan in back to back sentences. What makes you any better of a person? I fail to see it
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
That's a pretty hypocritical statement right there.. Attacking both Naniwa and a random TL fan in back to back sentences. What makes you any better of a person? I fail to see it
Yeah plus that at the end of the sentence really adds to the insult imo. I love the banter between the pros but wish the fans would be left out of it.
Region lock and the return of Naniwa have me hyped as fuck for this year.
mYiKane: You are not a good enough player to be insulting people like that. Also, you are an embarrassment to your team and your country with no significant results in your career. Can't wait for the Colonel qxc to kick the living shit out of you.
On January 18 2015 14:50 SoleSteeler wrote: Almost everyone has a negative reaction to Nani when he insults them. When others insult each other they always seem to just brush it off. I guess Naniwa is more "serious" in his insults.
That said, I'm a huge fan of watching Nani's games and interviews. I find his personality fascinating too...
It's because the other pros don't/won't come to Naniwas defense. And so you see some challenging him to a fight, wanting to see him physically hurt, like schoolyard bullies. They cannot best Naniwa in SC2 and they can't break his spirit, so this is the ugly result.
Saying they can't best him may be taking it a bit far.
"Best" doesn't mean "defeat in a game." It doesn't mean "defeat in a series" either, or "show better results in a tournament." Naniwa has had the most illustrious career of any foreigner, and immediately starts stomping face after not playing competitively for a long time. Stephano and IdrA are the only foreigners who can sit at the adults table with Naniwa.
Thorzain, Jinro, Huk, Vortix, Sen, Scarlett have all had as good as or better careers than Idra in SC2 in terms of results, consistency and competitive environment.
easy to avoid the main point when the supporting argument is weak.
Have to admit I got some goosebumps reading the article. Very good read! Naniwa made SC2 interesting no matter if you hate or love him and in the end that's all that matters.
Just look at NaNiwa's face. The face of a thinker, a warrior, a man for all seasons. Yes, NaNiwa is all that and more but he is not perfect. Perhaps his greatest flaw is that he is too selfless, he cares too much for his fellow Brotoss with nary a thought for himself. A man of limitless accomplishments and unbridled modesty.
I can safely say that to know him is to love him and to love him is to know him. Those who know him love him while those who do not know him love him from afar.
On January 20 2015 06:24 icydergosu wrote: Just look at NaNiwa's face. The face of a thinker, a warrior, a man for all seasons. Yes, NaNiwa is all that and more but he is not perfect. Perhaps his greatest flaw is that he is too selfless, he cares too much for his fellow Brotoss with nary a thought for himself. A man of limitless accomplishments and unbridled modesty.
I can safely say that to know him is to love him and to love him is to know him. Those who know him love him while those who do not know him love him from afar.
Greatest single post in this thread. And there's been quite a few contenders.
Honestly I never used to care about Naniwa, then I realized that I just didn't follow Sc2 anymore. I was bored watching the game and had moved on. But I still found myself watching Naniwa matches cause he almost always found a way to piss his opponent or a bunch of fans off.
Turns out I had been such a secret Naniwa fan that I didn't even know it myself. He combines high skill with making the game more interesting by creating storylines in all his matches. Hell he even creates stories out of his ladder struggles by declaring war on Blizzard and Swarm Hosts.
Maybe somone at Blizzards SC2 unit is into wrestling, they could make Naniwa vs Nerchio a career vs career no holds barred match. Looser goes into retirement, everything is allowed (disconnecting opponents keyboard, stream-cheating, ddos attacks). Could really push this to the next level
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Not really. You are talking about the group of people that translate a traffic accident as entertainment in their empty lives, and lack the empathy to do nothing else but laugh.
eSport is not built on drama, but the games themselves. If not, it lacks quality in itself. Players should be treated with some respect, not targeted as fun humor.
I agree its not build on drama, but the drama will attract more attention. When rivalries and grudges occur, the games become more entertaining.
Dana White understands how the drama can bring in more viewers; he signed Brock Lesnar for that very reason. Of course, the fighter/player has to have the skills necessary to enter the octagon/sit behind the screen.
I enjoy watching Naniwa because he is a beast at this game, but also because I want to see someone stomp him.
Is drama necessary to garner more attention? No. Will drama garner more attention? Yes.
I am not saying Starcraft 2 needs players like Naniwa and Idra, but when we do have these kinds of characters it makes the games more enjoyable.
To Naniwa, I wish you the best of luck, and I truly hope you make it to Premier league. I also hope that you get floor stomped in the Challenger league.
You are the only player that I will cheer and jeer. Keep on doing what you are doing. I am glad you are back.
But I am sure Brock Lesnar agrees to the fact that he is brought in as entertainment, as that element is part of MMA/Wrestling, while Naniwa does not.
These are young kids, playing games, and the media are trying to target them with labels of hero/villain is just wrong, as it only there to bring hateful notions to players, and shows more how desperate the state of Starcraft must be in. It is about branding him in an image, so they can sell their stuff, rather than sell him as a good player, which he is.
If drama garner more attention, then it tells the story that the game can't sell itself, or the audience need something not related to the game to be peaked. This is not a circus, but eSports. If TL wants to beat this drum, they have lost the path in my eyes.
On January 20 2015 08:58 ClueClueClue wrote: He can talk the NaNitalk, but can he walk the NaNiwalk?
When he beat Flash 2-1 then narrowly lost the group final 4-3 at MLG Dallas 2012, that's when I knew. Also one of those games he proxy immortal busted him, something I had rarely, if ever seen. That's ballin' status.
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Not really. You are talking about the group of people that translate a traffic accident as entertainment in their empty lives, and lack the empathy to do nothing else but laugh.
eSport is not built on drama, but the games themselves. If not, it lacks quality in itself. Players should be treated with some respect, not targeted as fun humor.
I agree its not build on drama, but the drama will attract more attention. When rivalries and grudges occur, the games become more entertaining.
Dana White understands how the drama can bring in more viewers; he signed Brock Lesnar for that very reason. Of course, the fighter/player has to have the skills necessary to enter the octagon/sit behind the screen.
I enjoy watching Naniwa because he is a beast at this game, but also because I want to see someone stomp him.
Is drama necessary to garner more attention? No. Will drama garner more attention? Yes.
I am not saying Starcraft 2 needs players like Naniwa and Idra, but when we do have these kinds of characters it makes the games more enjoyable.
To Naniwa, I wish you the best of luck, and I truly hope you make it to Premier league. I also hope that you get floor stomped in the Challenger league.
You are the only player that I will cheer and jeer. Keep on doing what you are doing. I am glad you are back.
But I am sure Brock Lesnar agrees to the fact that he is brought in as entertainment, as that element is part of MMA/Wrestling.
These are young kids, playing games, and the media are trying to target them with labels of hero/villain is just wrong, and shows more how desperate the state of Starcraft must be in. It is about branding him in an image, so they can sell their stuff, rather than sell him as a good player, which he is.
If drama garner more attention, then it tells the story that the game can't sell itself, or the audience need something not related to the game to be peaked. This is not a circus, but eSports. If TL wants to beat this drum, they have lost the path in my eyes.
Yea, sure, because we humans are robots who enjoy objective, standard, and impersonal games, and never get out of the frame. I assume you play macro, right?
SC2 is the game itself, and everything that surround it, including its players and their personalities. If you do not like that way, you better reconsider your enjoyment of an individual sport like SC2.
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Not really. You are talking about the group of people that translate a traffic accident as entertainment in their empty lives, and lack the empathy to do nothing else but laugh.
eSport is not built on drama, but the games themselves. If not, it lacks quality in itself. Players should be treated with some respect, not targeted as fun humor.
I agree its not build on drama, but the drama will attract more attention. When rivalries and grudges occur, the games become more entertaining.
Dana White understands how the drama can bring in more viewers; he signed Brock Lesnar for that very reason. Of course, the fighter/player has to have the skills necessary to enter the octagon/sit behind the screen.
I enjoy watching Naniwa because he is a beast at this game, but also because I want to see someone stomp him.
Is drama necessary to garner more attention? No. Will drama garner more attention? Yes.
I am not saying Starcraft 2 needs players like Naniwa and Idra, but when we do have these kinds of characters it makes the games more enjoyable.
To Naniwa, I wish you the best of luck, and I truly hope you make it to Premier league. I also hope that you get floor stomped in the Challenger league.
You are the only player that I will cheer and jeer. Keep on doing what you are doing. I am glad you are back.
But I am sure Brock Lesnar agrees to the fact that he is brought in as entertainment, as that element is part of MMA/Wrestling.
These are young kids, playing games, and the media are trying to target them with labels of hero/villain is just wrong, and shows more how desperate the state of Starcraft must be in. It is about branding him in an image, so they can sell their stuff, rather than sell him as a good player, which he is.
If drama garner more attention, then it tells the story that the game can't sell itself, or the audience need something not related to the game to be peaked. This is not a circus, but eSports. If TL wants to beat this drum, they have lost the path in my eyes.
Yea, sure, because we humans are robots who enjoy objective, standard, and impersonal games, and never get out of the frame. I assume you play macro, right?
SC2 is the game itself, and everything that surround it, including its players and their personalities. If you do not like that way, you better reconsider your enjoyment of an individual sport like SC2.
I am sorry to interrupt your notion of the game that is not related to the game, as being human. It seems most of my post went over your head, though. Naniwa didn't ask to satisfy your thirst for things not related to the game, just because you feel more human that way. I would call you something else, though.
I enjoy eSports very much without drama, or stigmatizing players in order to enjoy it. Not because I am a robot, but because I am interested the games in eSport. I think players should be respected, rather than being targets of hate, and I think that part would serve TL better. What you enjoy on your own is up to you. This is not about you, or what you do, but a critique of the article.
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Not really. You are talking about the group of people that translate a traffic accident as entertainment in their empty lives, and lack the empathy to do nothing else but laugh.
eSport is not built on drama, but the games themselves. If not, it lacks quality in itself. Players should be treated with some respect, not targeted as fun humor.
I agree its not build on drama, but the drama will attract more attention. When rivalries and grudges occur, the games become more entertaining.
Dana White understands how the drama can bring in more viewers; he signed Brock Lesnar for that very reason. Of course, the fighter/player has to have the skills necessary to enter the octagon/sit behind the screen.
I enjoy watching Naniwa because he is a beast at this game, but also because I want to see someone stomp him.
Is drama necessary to garner more attention? No. Will drama garner more attention? Yes.
I am not saying Starcraft 2 needs players like Naniwa and Idra, but when we do have these kinds of characters it makes the games more enjoyable.
To Naniwa, I wish you the best of luck, and I truly hope you make it to Premier league. I also hope that you get floor stomped in the Challenger league.
You are the only player that I will cheer and jeer. Keep on doing what you are doing. I am glad you are back.
But I am sure Brock Lesnar agrees to the fact that he is brought in as entertainment, as that element is part of MMA/Wrestling, while Naniwa does not.
These are young kids, playing games, and the media are trying to target them with labels of hero/villain is just wrong, as it only there to bring hateful notions to players, and shows more how desperate the state of Starcraft must be in. It is about branding him in an image, so they can sell their stuff, rather than sell him as a good player, which he is.
If drama garner more attention, then it tells the story that the game can't sell itself, or the audience need something not related to the game to be peaked. This is not a circus, but eSports. If TL wants to beat this drum, they have lost the path in my eyes.
I don't understand your post. My example of Brock was to show how talent plus personality can really bring in the ratings. The element of entertainment is a core aspect of any content, and whether you are entertained because of the players skills, or their personality, it doesn't make much difference.
Sure, Naniwa doesn't play this game for the purpose of entertaining the audience. He is playing it for himself, but it's that exact attitude that makes the audience even more involved.
And I don't think stuchiu's article demonized him into a villain or martyred him into a hero, because the audience is already polarized about Naniwa anyways, and this article only reminded us of who exactly is Naniwa.
Drama garners more attention, but its never the focus. The focus will always be skill, and nothing will take that away. Do you honestly think we would care about Naniwa if he wasn't a great player? As I said before, Naniwa brings talent and ego, but he would be just another Avilo if he didn't have the talent.
TL can write content with any angle they so wish, and perhaps they are using Naniwa's image to sell better content, but they never lied about anything. In my opinion, all they did was state the facts, and let the reader form their own opinion, which is responsible journalism.
If you feel TL has strayed from some holy honor of esports, then that is your respectful right, but I like my steak with sauce.
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Not really. You are talking about the group of people that translate a traffic accident as entertainment in their empty lives, and lack the empathy to do nothing else but laugh.
eSport is not built on drama, but the games themselves. If not, it lacks quality in itself. Players should be treated with some respect, not targeted as fun humor.
I agree its not build on drama, but the drama will attract more attention. When rivalries and grudges occur, the games become more entertaining.
Dana White understands how the drama can bring in more viewers; he signed Brock Lesnar for that very reason. Of course, the fighter/player has to have the skills necessary to enter the octagon/sit behind the screen.
I enjoy watching Naniwa because he is a beast at this game, but also because I want to see someone stomp him.
Is drama necessary to garner more attention? No. Will drama garner more attention? Yes.
I am not saying Starcraft 2 needs players like Naniwa and Idra, but when we do have these kinds of characters it makes the games more enjoyable.
To Naniwa, I wish you the best of luck, and I truly hope you make it to Premier league. I also hope that you get floor stomped in the Challenger league.
You are the only player that I will cheer and jeer. Keep on doing what you are doing. I am glad you are back.
But I am sure Brock Lesnar agrees to the fact that he is brought in as entertainment, as that element is part of MMA/Wrestling.
These are young kids, playing games, and the media are trying to target them with labels of hero/villain is just wrong, and shows more how desperate the state of Starcraft must be in. It is about branding him in an image, so they can sell their stuff, rather than sell him as a good player, which he is.
If drama garner more attention, then it tells the story that the game can't sell itself, or the audience need something not related to the game to be peaked. This is not a circus, but eSports. If TL wants to beat this drum, they have lost the path in my eyes.
Yea, sure, because we humans are robots who enjoy objective, standard, and impersonal games, and never get out of the frame. I assume you play macro, right?
SC2 is the game itself, and everything that surround it, including its players and their personalities. If you do not like that way, you better reconsider your enjoyment of an individual sport like SC2.
I am sorry to interrupt your notion of the game that is not related to the game, as being human. It seems most of my post went over your head, though. Naniwa didn't ask to satisfy your thirst for things not related to the game, just because you feel more human that way. I would call you something else, though.
I enjoy eSports very much without drama, or stigmatizing players in order to enjoy it. Not because I am a robot, but because I am interested the games in eSport. I think players should be respected, rather than being targets of hate, and I think that part would serve TL better. What you enjoy on your own is up to you. This is not about you, or what you do, but a critique of the article.
TL writers did not ask to satisfy your own tastes about SC2, nor they will concur with your critiques or feedbacks. As do the most part of us.
You are free to leave TL if you want; it is your right. But please, we do not need your senseless feedback.
In other news: I believe we only need ~600 more pages in this thread for it to become eligable for its own Liquid` sub-site, next to Liquid`Dota and Liquid`Legends!
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Not really. You are talking about the group of people that translate a traffic accident as entertainment in their empty lives, and lack the empathy to do nothing else but laugh.
eSport is not built on drama, but the games themselves. If not, it lacks quality in itself. Players should be treated with some respect, not targeted as fun humor.
I agree its not build on drama, but the drama will attract more attention. When rivalries and grudges occur, the games become more entertaining.
Dana White understands how the drama can bring in more viewers; he signed Brock Lesnar for that very reason. Of course, the fighter/player has to have the skills necessary to enter the octagon/sit behind the screen.
I enjoy watching Naniwa because he is a beast at this game, but also because I want to see someone stomp him.
Is drama necessary to garner more attention? No. Will drama garner more attention? Yes.
I am not saying Starcraft 2 needs players like Naniwa and Idra, but when we do have these kinds of characters it makes the games more enjoyable.
To Naniwa, I wish you the best of luck, and I truly hope you make it to Premier league. I also hope that you get floor stomped in the Challenger league.
You are the only player that I will cheer and jeer. Keep on doing what you are doing. I am glad you are back.
But I am sure Brock Lesnar agrees to the fact that he is brought in as entertainment, as that element is part of MMA/Wrestling.
These are young kids, playing games, and the media are trying to target them with labels of hero/villain is just wrong, and shows more how desperate the state of Starcraft must be in. It is about branding him in an image, so they can sell their stuff, rather than sell him as a good player, which he is.
If drama garner more attention, then it tells the story that the game can't sell itself, or the audience need something not related to the game to be peaked. This is not a circus, but eSports. If TL wants to beat this drum, they have lost the path in my eyes.
Yea, sure, because we humans are robots who enjoy objective, standard, and impersonal games, and never get out of the frame. I assume you play macro, right?
SC2 is the game itself, and everything that surround it, including its players and their personalities. If you do not like that way, you better reconsider your enjoyment of an individual sport like SC2.
Well, there are people who watch the game because they want to watch the game. Personally I don't care which player is playing, as long as the games are good. Good games for me means long games with lots of action all over the map, or games in which players use some unconventional tactics and unit combinations.
On January 18 2015 13:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I wish Naniwa had never come back to Starcraft.
Don't worry, he's bound to get boo'd into retirement again soon enough
This may be true.... but at least he will make it to Premier....
You on the other hand.... have fun qualifying for challenger over and over again.
I'd rather be a good person and a bad player than a shitty person and a good player. Also, I'd MUCH rather be a good person and a shitty player than a shitty player AND an irrelevant fanboy
+1 for Kane here. At the end it just a video game and how you treat people is what really matters.
Lol. For people who depend on money they get from playing "just a game" I think it is more than that. Football is just a game as well... but average player earns more money than a good doctor and everyone takes is seriously, especially the players.
OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
On January 20 2015 18:09 -Archangel- wrote: And no matter what people say, Sc2 has become a boring place after Idra, Stephano and Nani quit.
So so true... the quality of games is still high but I don't think I've truly been able to get behind any current player. Bring back Nani, Idra, Steph etc... they put the personality and the story into the scene, things which have been steadily declining for a while now.
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
He has the right to behave as he wants, and haters have the right to hate him.
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Exactly. There's nothing special or good about being who you want to be if you're not really a good person. Some people (me included ) need to be who they truely are less often
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Exactly. There's nothing special or good about being who you want to be if you're not really a good person. Some people (me included ) need to be who they truely are less often
No, because if you're not who you are, you can never learn.
Only if you're truly yourself, you will learn why your behavior needs to change if it does. If you're always faking in fear others may react negatively, always playing safe - you will never be a useful person for this planet.
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Ok, I didn't know he did those things - wishing cancer and losing limbs...... hm
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Exactly. There's nothing special or good about being who you want to be if you're not really a good person. Some people (me included ) need to be who they truely are less often
No, because if you're not who you are, you can never learn.
Only if you're truly yourself, you will learn why your behavior needs to change if it does. If you're always faking in fear others may react negatively, always playing safe - you will never be a useful person for this planet.
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Ok, I didn't know he did those things - wishing cancer and losing limbs...... hm
Yes that's a mistake.
Who are you to decide whom others are and aren't? Can't we decide it ourselves? Isn't who we are always changing?
Instead of this essentialism, let's try to be kind and fair to each other. What matters is not who we are, but what we do.
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Exactly. There's nothing special or good about being who you want to be if you're not really a good person. Some people (me included ) need to be who they truely are less often
No, because if you're not who you are, you can never learn.
Only if you're truly yourself, you will learn why your behavior needs to change if it does. If you're always faking in fear others may react negatively, always playing safe - you will never be a useful person for this planet.
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Ok, I didn't know he did those things - wishing cancer and losing limbs...... hm
Yes that's a mistake.
Thing is, people who assholes and who are who they are tend to not get anywhere in the adult world. On the contrary, they usually end up lonely and isolated because no-one wants anything to do with them. It isfor this reason that parents teach their children how to behave in public. Some children learn easier than others, and there are the few that never learn at all.
Forcing someone to do something is not mistreating a person if that person is contractually obliged to those tasks.
I like Nani. I'm a fan. He is damn good, creative with his own approach to the game, and true to himself. And don't forget, that the truth it's not always the best or right thing. It's just the truth, no hiding, no fear of outside criticism, no denying, the truth.
He's done some questionable things, sure. I have as well. Who hasn't? Nobody is perfect. I've never meant or tried to do harm or push around and make feel bad other people. But I have. Situations that clash with your personality. And for some people, Nani has too.
The thing is, even though I've never meant to do such things, I don't deny I did them. I don't hide. I don't blame other things. I'm to blame. I don't pretend to be a better person than what I already are, just high-lighting my achievements and strengths, and hiding and denying my weaknesses and mistakes.
Nani has stated several times he rages, that he is not a good looser, that he flames, that he hasn't reacted or showed the best behaviors at certain situations (Nestea & Polt). Does this means he is justified? Well, no, I guess not.
I don't know if I make my point clear. But Naniwa is Naniwa and he is not trying to be someone else or trying to be a crowd-pleaser. He probably never meant wrong (flaming and raging can't be really taken serious, its word-play. Do people always mean what they say? Just because you say something in Twitter it doesn't means you mean it. It just means you are ballsy), but he has never denied his actions.
People like to pick on him for some reason. He is not perfect sure. But what makes the other person a better one? Just because their mistakes haven't been exposed they have the right to bully on him? This makes them far worse in my opinion. And it only makes me think they want the attention by using Naniwa.
Naniwa is a hands-down dedicated and very skillful player which can't help speaking his mind and taking actions do to his emotions. I can't say I really know him, its just what I perceive from him.
People will love you for who you are and hate you for the very same reason.
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Exactly. There's nothing special or good about being who you want to be if you're not really a good person. Some people (me included ) need to be who they truely are less often
No, because if you're not who you are, you can never learn.
Only if you're truly yourself, you will learn why your behavior needs to change if it does. If you're always faking in fear others may react negatively, always playing safe - you will never be a useful person for this planet.
On January 21 2015 00:25 Darkhorse wrote:
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Ok, I didn't know he did those things - wishing cancer and losing limbs...... hm
Yes that's a mistake.
Who are you to decide whom others are and aren't? Can't we decide it ourselves? Isn't who we are always changing?
Instead of this essentialism, let's try to be kind and fair to each other. What matters is not who we are, but what we do.
If you're not who you are, what you do will be weak, or your efforts will be unsustainable at long term..
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Exactly. There's nothing special or good about being who you want to be if you're not really a good person. Some people (me included ) need to be who they truely are less often
No, because if you're not who you are, you can never learn.
Only if you're truly yourself, you will learn why your behavior needs to change if it does. If you're always faking in fear others may react negatively, always playing safe - you will never be a useful person for this planet.
On January 21 2015 00:25 Darkhorse wrote:
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Ok, I didn't know he did those things - wishing cancer and losing limbs...... hm
Yes that's a mistake.
Who are you to decide whom others are and aren't? Can't we decide it ourselves? Isn't who we are always changing?
Instead of this essentialism, let's try to be kind and fair to each other. What matters is not who we are, but what we do.
If you're not who you are, what you do will be weak, or your efforts will be unsustainable at long term..
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Exactly. There's nothing special or good about being who you want to be if you're not really a good person. Some people (me included ) need to be who they truely are less often
No, because if you're not who you are, you can never learn.
Only if you're truly yourself, you will learn why your behavior needs to change if it does. If you're always faking in fear others may react negatively, always playing safe - you will never be a useful person for this planet.
On January 21 2015 00:25 Darkhorse wrote:
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Ok, I didn't know he did those things - wishing cancer and losing limbs...... hm
Yes that's a mistake.
Who are you to decide whom others are and aren't? Can't we decide it ourselves? Isn't who we are always changing?
Instead of this essentialism, let's try to be kind and fair to each other. What matters is not who we are, but what we do.
If you're not who you are, what you do will be weak, or your efforts will be unsustainable at long term..
You haven't answered any of his questions though d:
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Exactly. There's nothing special or good about being who you want to be if you're not really a good person. Some people (me included ) need to be who they truely are less often
No, because if you're not who you are, you can never learn.
Only if you're truly yourself, you will learn why your behavior needs to change if it does. If you're always faking in fear others may react negatively, always playing safe - you will never be a useful person for this planet.
On January 21 2015 00:25 Darkhorse wrote:
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Ok, I didn't know he did those things - wishing cancer and losing limbs...... hm
Yes that's a mistake.
Thing is, people who assholes and who are who they are tend to not get anywhere in the adult world. On the contrary, they usually end up lonely and isolated because no-one wants anything to do with them.
I disagree. Only the stubborn ones who don't have the ability of self-reflection end up like this.
If you are yourself always, but are willing to face the effects of your actions, you will learn, and you will become a softer person. There are numerous examples of people who were douchebags, but evolved. It's pointless to give examples, as it's not hard to remember one for any of us, but I'll still give one example - Mike Tyson. He was a supreme idiot. But he was so strong and too much of a 'bigshot' to be willing to behave as he 'should' instead as he wants.
Listen to him now. He's a different person. And very very useful for the world as he can give amazing insights, as he's been on both sides. He's been the villan - not like Idra who does it because he feeds off of it, but because he was literally fucked up, he was authentically a nasty person.
If he's been in a different position, where he had to kiss up to others in order to fit in, he would be a 'nice guy' with a lot of unprocessed anger issues.
It isfor this reason that parents teach their children how to behave in public. Some children learn easier than others, and there are the few that never learn at all.
Forcing someone to do something is not mistreating a person if that person is contractually obliged to those tasks.
I will resist as hard as I can to teach my kid 'how to behave in public'.
I will only try to inform him things like: "if you're rude to somebody, it may offend him and hurt his feelings." Useful, if-then sentences. Not things like "do this!" or "do this because it's what people do"
I think it's very counter-productive for a proper development.
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Exactly. There's nothing special or good about being who you want to be if you're not really a good person. Some people (me included ) need to be who they truely are less often
No, because if you're not who you are, you can never learn.
Only if you're truly yourself, you will learn why your behavior needs to change if it does. If you're always faking in fear others may react negatively, always playing safe - you will never be a useful person for this planet.
On January 21 2015 00:25 Darkhorse wrote:
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Ok, I didn't know he did those things - wishing cancer and losing limbs...... hm
Yes that's a mistake.
Who are you to decide whom others are and aren't? Can't we decide it ourselves? Isn't who we are always changing?
Instead of this essentialism, let's try to be kind and fair to each other. What matters is not who we are, but what we do.
If you're not who you are, what you do will be weak, or your efforts will be unsustainable at long term..
You haven't answered any of his questions though d:
I don't know why he asked those questions, I don't know what he is referring to.
I am not the one to decide whom others are and aren't. Yes you can decide for yourself. Yes, who we are is always changing (I would use the word evolving).
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Exactly. There's nothing special or good about being who you want to be if you're not really a good person. Some people (me included ) need to be who they truely are less often
No, because if you're not who you are, you can never learn.
Only if you're truly yourself, you will learn why your behavior needs to change if it does. If you're always faking in fear others may react negatively, always playing safe - you will never be a useful person for this planet.
On January 21 2015 00:25 Darkhorse wrote:
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Ok, I didn't know he did those things - wishing cancer and losing limbs...... hm
Yes that's a mistake.
Who are you to decide whom others are and aren't? Can't we decide it ourselves? Isn't who we are always changing?
Instead of this essentialism, let's try to be kind and fair to each other. What matters is not who we are, but what we do.
If you're not who you are, what you do will be weak, or your efforts will be unsustainable at long term..
But who are we, if not our actions...?
Your actions can be in 'sync' with who you are, and 'out of sync'. Or to use a more poetic version: your actions can spring out of your heart, or they can be 'cold' and calculated.
You can do things because your heart truly wants you to do it. (sorry if somebody is annoyed by this abstract language) Or you can do things you don't like, while hoping somebody will reward you for it.
You are in that case being weak, by preferring to do what somebody else likes, instead of what you like.
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Exactly. There's nothing special or good about being who you want to be if you're not really a good person. Some people (me included ) need to be who they truely are less often
No, because if you're not who you are, you can never learn.
Only if you're truly yourself, you will learn why your behavior needs to change if it does. If you're always faking in fear others may react negatively, always playing safe - you will never be a useful person for this planet.
On January 21 2015 00:25 Darkhorse wrote:
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Ok, I didn't know he did those things - wishing cancer and losing limbs...... hm
Yes that's a mistake.
Who are you to decide whom others are and aren't? Can't we decide it ourselves? Isn't who we are always changing?
Instead of this essentialism, let's try to be kind and fair to each other. What matters is not who we are, but what we do.
If you're not who you are, what you do will be weak, or your efforts will be unsustainable at long term..
You haven't answered any of his questions though d:
I don't know why he asked those questions, I don't know what he is referring to.
I am not the one to decide whom others are and aren't. Yes you can decide for yourself. Yes, who we are is always changing (I would use the word evolving).
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Exactly. There's nothing special or good about being who you want to be if you're not really a good person. Some people (me included ) need to be who they truely are less often
No, because if you're not who you are, you can never learn.
Only if you're truly yourself, you will learn why your behavior needs to change if it does. If you're always faking in fear others may react negatively, always playing safe - you will never be a useful person for this planet.
On January 21 2015 00:25 Darkhorse wrote:
On January 21 2015 00:06 niteReloaded wrote: OP says "To praise his skill without acknowledging his flaws"
His 'flaws' are being who he is all the time, so I see it as beauty, not a flaw.
This world has too many 'nice boys, nice girls', and fake people.
I would simply say that anyone who doesnt like Naniwa is jealous as they don't have the courage to be who they are, while Naniwa does have it. It's simply being a hater.
Almost all of Nani's mistakes I can think of resulted from someone mistreating him: - forcing him to play a tournament he didn't practice for. - forcing him to play meaningless games etc.
And about his rage and manners: he doesn't owe you anything. he is just playing a game. It's your choice to watch him. He has the right to behave as he wants. If the organizers wish to punish him for his behavior, they have the right to do so. Naniwa is not malicious. He acts from his heart whether its fighting 'to death' or raging.
I don't see how people truly dislike that.
ROFL nah I have the courage to be who I am but who I am isn't the kind of person who will wish for others to lose limbs/wish for someone to get cancer/call people autistic/quit due to stupid excuses
Your argument is based on the premise that everyone is an asshole with no filter but most people are too scared to show the world that they're assholes. The courageous ones are the people who don't give a shit about anyone else and put others down
Right
Also I'd like to know what world you live in where name calling/wishing physical pain on someone isn't malicious
Ok, I didn't know he did those things - wishing cancer and losing limbs...... hm
Yes that's a mistake.
Who are you to decide whom others are and aren't? Can't we decide it ourselves? Isn't who we are always changing?
Instead of this essentialism, let's try to be kind and fair to each other. What matters is not who we are, but what we do.
If you're not who you are, what you do will be weak, or your efforts will be unsustainable at long term..
But who are we, if not our actions...?
Your actions can be in 'sync' with who you are, and 'out of sync'. Or to use a more poetic version: your actions can spring out of your heart, or they can be 'cold' and calculated.
You can do things because your heart truly wants you to do it. (sorry if somebody is annoyed by this abstract language) Or you can do things you don't like, while hoping somebody will reward you for it.
You are in that case being weak, by preferring to do what somebody else likes, instead of what you like.
It's all you, since the actions are yours. I wouldn't say any of my personal treats, positive or negative, are more "me" than others. I'm a wide spectrum of good and evil, and I choose to try and do good things - and so should NaNiwa. Explaining his behavior with him being "truthful" and "who he is" is really insulting, imo.
On January 21 2015 02:58 niteReloaded wrote: Ok, I could agree its all you.
But if you are acting in a way you don't like, in order for someone else to like you: then it's still you. You're a weak human.
Naniwa is a strong human. Not too mannered, but strong.
I'd say that rude behavior is a sign of weakness, since you're succumbing to instinct without considering the consequences of your actions. How does always taking the easy route make you strong? Why would his first impulse to be the correct course of action? Gut feeling is really overrated imo, since it's basically our weaknesses, our pride and our prejudice shining through without being filtered through our consciousness. If anything, that makes those actions based on gut feeling less 'us' than others.
On January 21 2015 02:58 niteReloaded wrote: Ok, I could agree its all you.
But if you are acting in a way you don't like, in order for someone else to like you: then it's still you. You're a weak human.
Naniwa is a strong human. Not too mannered, but strong.
I'd say that rude behavior is a sign of weakness, since you're succumbing to instinct without considering the consequences of your actions. How does always taking the easy route make you strong? Why would his first impulse to be the correct course of action? Gut feeling is really overrated imo, since it's basically our weaknesses, our pride and our prejudice shining through without being filtered through our consciousness. If anything, that makes those actions based on gut feeling less 'us' than others.
It's fallacious to imply rude people don't consider the consequence of their actions. In fact I believe a large portion of rude people do it perfectly intentionally for a wide variety of reasons.
On January 21 2015 02:58 niteReloaded wrote: Ok, I could agree its all you.
But if you are acting in a way you don't like, in order for someone else to like you: then it's still you. You're a weak human.
Naniwa is a strong human. Not too mannered, but strong.
So respecting basic social conventions and manners and not trying to enter in a conflict with every person you don't like is being a weak human?
It makes you A human. If you act exactly how you feel, all the time, there's something missing in either your upbringing or your mind. Only drunk people and small kids follow every single impulse, but they learn or sober up sooner or later.
On January 21 2015 02:58 niteReloaded wrote: Ok, I could agree its all you.
But if you are acting in a way you don't like, in order for someone else to like you: then it's still you. You're a weak human.
Naniwa is a strong human. Not too mannered, but strong.
I'd say that rude behavior is a sign of weakness, since you're succumbing to instinct without considering the consequences of your actions. How does always taking the easy route make you strong? Why would his first impulse to be the correct course of action? Gut feeling is really overrated imo, since it's basically our weaknesses, our pride and our prejudice shining through without being filtered through our consciousness. If anything, that makes those actions based on gut feeling less 'us' than others.
It's fallacious to imply rude people don't consider the consequence of their actions. In fact I believe a large portion of rude people do it perfectly intentionally for a wide variety of reasons.
That's probably true, but the reason for that kind of behavior in each individual instance is often a lack of a long-term perspective. When in a line at the super market, a rude person would only care about getting quickly to the registry, and not how many people he/she shoved aside. When insulted, a rude person would retaliate with as much defensiveness as he/she could muster instead of walking away/disarming the insultor. If these people considered their own behavior to be rude, you could probably say that they're aware of the consequences of their actions, but I'm pretty sure most people don't see themselves that way, even if they behave badly. They're only doing what they have to to get what they want, they're following their instinct to do "their favorite thing", as Louis CK puts it. It's more so a lock missing in these people's minds than them being deliberately dislikeable.
On January 21 2015 02:58 niteReloaded wrote: Ok, I could agree its all you.
But if you are acting in a way you don't like, in order for someone else to like you: then it's still you. You're a weak human.
Naniwa is a strong human. Not too mannered, but strong.
So respecting basic social conventions and manners and not trying to enter in a conflict with every person you don't like is being a weak human?
Yes, if you would HONESTLY wish to act differently.
In the case that you would wish to do illegal things, then it's smart to not do them even if you would like to, as you may end up in prison. But in a case of being 'nice' to people you don't like, out of fear of them disapproving you, then it's weak i'd say.
On January 21 2015 02:58 niteReloaded wrote: Ok, I could agree its all you.
But if you are acting in a way you don't like, in order for someone else to like you: then it's still you. You're a weak human.
Naniwa is a strong human. Not too mannered, but strong.
I'd say that rude behavior is a sign of weakness, since you're succumbing to instinct without considering the consequences of your actions. How does always taking the easy route make you strong? Why would his first impulse to be the correct course of action? Gut feeling is really overrated imo, since it's basically our weaknesses, our pride and our prejudice shining through without being filtered through our consciousness. If anything, that makes those actions based on gut feeling less 'us' than others.
I'd say rude behavior is a sign of immaturity. While surpressing your true nature, even if it's immature, because you want to be liked, is weak/cowardly.
So, I'd say immature people often fake maturity as they are raised that way without being explained why its good to do 'mannered things'. So they have no chance to learn true maturity as their 'rough edges' are never shown, and are never given the chance to be truly polished and smoothed out.
I would even maybe argue that the braves way to live, and a way that would be most fast when it comes to personal growth, would be to always follow the impulse. With time, if the impulse would result in negative results, the impulses would change, you would start seeing things in a different way.
Of course, the entire time I'm assuming the person has the ability to self-reflect and adjust.
On January 21 2015 02:58 niteReloaded wrote: Ok, I could agree its all you.
But if you are acting in a way you don't like, in order for someone else to like you: then it's still you. You're a weak human.
Naniwa is a strong human. Not too mannered, but strong.
I'd say that rude behavior is a sign of weakness, since you're succumbing to instinct without considering the consequences of your actions. How does always taking the easy route make you strong? Why would his first impulse to be the correct course of action? Gut feeling is really overrated imo, since it's basically our weaknesses, our pride and our prejudice shining through without being filtered through our consciousness. If anything, that makes those actions based on gut feeling less 'us' than others.
It's fallacious to imply rude people don't consider the consequence of their actions. In fact I believe a large portion of rude people do it perfectly intentionally for a wide variety of reasons.
That's probably true, but the reason for that kind of behavior in each individual instance is often a lack of a long-term perspective. When in a line at the super market, a rude person would only care about getting quickly to the registry, and not how many people he/she shoved aside. When insulted, a rude person would retaliate with as much defensiveness as he/she could muster instead of walking away/disarming the insultor. If these people considered their own behavior to be rude, you could probably say that they're aware of the consequences of their actions, but I'm pretty sure most people don't see themselves that way, even if they behave badly. They're only doing what they have to to get what they want, they're following their instinct to do "their favorite thing", as Louis CK puts it. It's more so a lock missing in these people's minds than them being deliberately dislikeable.
So, why aren't you shoving people at the supermarket? Is it because it's a 'social norm' or because you feel empathy for people?
If it's the former, you're a coward; if it's the latter, you're a healthy person.
On January 21 2015 02:58 niteReloaded wrote: Ok, I could agree its all you.
But if you are acting in a way you don't like, in order for someone else to like you: then it's still you. You're a weak human.
Naniwa is a strong human. Not too mannered, but strong.
So respecting basic social conventions and manners and not trying to enter in a conflict with every person you don't like is being a weak human?
Yes, if you would HONESTLY wish to act differently.
In the case that you would wish to do illegal things, then it's smart to not do them even if you would like to, as you may end up in prison. But in a case of being 'nice' to people you don't like, out of fear of them disapproving you, then it's weak i'd say.
On January 21 2015 02:58 niteReloaded wrote: Ok, I could agree its all you.
But if you are acting in a way you don't like, in order for someone else to like you: then it's still you. You're a weak human.
Naniwa is a strong human. Not too mannered, but strong.
I'd say that rude behavior is a sign of weakness, since you're succumbing to instinct without considering the consequences of your actions. How does always taking the easy route make you strong? Why would his first impulse to be the correct course of action? Gut feeling is really overrated imo, since it's basically our weaknesses, our pride and our prejudice shining through without being filtered through our consciousness. If anything, that makes those actions based on gut feeling less 'us' than others.
I'd say rude behavior is a sign of immaturity. While surpressing your true nature, even if it's immature, because you want to be liked, is weak/cowardly.
So, I'd say immature people often fake maturity as they are raised that way without being explained why its good to do 'mannered things'. So they have no chance to learn true maturity as their 'rough edges' are never shown, and are never given the chance to be truly polished and smoothed out.
I would even maybe argue that the braves way to live, and a way that would be most fast when it comes to personal growth, would be to always follow the impulse. With time, if the impulse would result in negative results, the impulses would change, you would start seeing things in a different way.
Of course, the entire time I'm assuming the person has the ability to self-reflect and adjust.
On January 21 2015 02:58 niteReloaded wrote: Ok, I could agree its all you.
But if you are acting in a way you don't like, in order for someone else to like you: then it's still you. You're a weak human.
Naniwa is a strong human. Not too mannered, but strong.
I'd say that rude behavior is a sign of weakness, since you're succumbing to instinct without considering the consequences of your actions. How does always taking the easy route make you strong? Why would his first impulse to be the correct course of action? Gut feeling is really overrated imo, since it's basically our weaknesses, our pride and our prejudice shining through without being filtered through our consciousness. If anything, that makes those actions based on gut feeling less 'us' than others.
It's fallacious to imply rude people don't consider the consequence of their actions. In fact I believe a large portion of rude people do it perfectly intentionally for a wide variety of reasons.
That's probably true, but the reason for that kind of behavior in each individual instance is often a lack of a long-term perspective. When in a line at the super market, a rude person would only care about getting quickly to the registry, and not how many people he/she shoved aside. When insulted, a rude person would retaliate with as much defensiveness as he/she could muster instead of walking away/disarming the insultor. If these people considered their own behavior to be rude, you could probably say that they're aware of the consequences of their actions, but I'm pretty sure most people don't see themselves that way, even if they behave badly. They're only doing what they have to to get what they want, they're following their instinct to do "their favorite thing", as Louis CK puts it. It's more so a lock missing in these people's minds than them being deliberately dislikeable.
So, why aren't you shoving people at the supermarket? Is it because it's a 'social norm' or because you feel empathy for people?
If it's the former, you're a coward; if it's the latter, you're a healthy person.
Making some sacrifices in order to function in civilized society isn't cowardice...
Whats the problem? People are desperate to see a foreigner that is able to win tournaments. That I can understand and people who dislike him for so many reasons I can understand too. Its sad that the community gathers behind a person like him because all the foreigners we have that have/had a payment to play full-time just disappointed.
In this thread you see how desperate the fans are. They bow to a person who tried it in LoL / Dota and last in Hots but failed miserable. And he has to be the saviour for foreigner SC2...yeah sure.
Let the "fans" hope and let the "haters" hate. Both have good reasons to do this. Accept it, tolerate it! Always this fundamentalist Christians...
On January 21 2015 02:58 niteReloaded wrote: Ok, I could agree its all you.
But if you are acting in a way you don't like, in order for someone else to like you: then it's still you. You're a weak human.
Naniwa is a strong human. Not too mannered, but strong.
So respecting basic social conventions and manners and not trying to enter in a conflict with every person you don't like is being a weak human?
Yes, if you would HONESTLY wish to act differently.
In the case that you would wish to do illegal things, then it's smart to not do them even if you would like to, as you may end up in prison. But in a case of being 'nice' to people you don't like, out of fear of them disapproving you, then it's weak i'd say.
But in the case it's not illegal but you're being a bane for people around by your attitude? How is being impolite and obnoxious for the people you live with being "strong" and the opposite, doing necessary sacrifices to live in good society with others, being "weak"?
On January 21 2015 02:58 niteReloaded wrote: Ok, I could agree its all you.
But if you are acting in a way you don't like, in order for someone else to like you: then it's still you. You're a weak human.
Naniwa is a strong human. Not too mannered, but strong.
So respecting basic social conventions and manners and not trying to enter in a conflict with every person you don't like is being a weak human?
Yes, if you would HONESTLY wish to act differently.
In the case that you would wish to do illegal things, then it's smart to not do them even if you would like to, as you may end up in prison. But in a case of being 'nice' to people you don't like, out of fear of them disapproving you, then it's weak i'd say.
But in the case it's not illegal but you're being a bane for people around by your attitude? How is being impolite and obnoxious for the people you live with being "strong" and the opposite, doing necessary sacrifices to live in good society with others, being "weak"?
I repeat what I said in a prior post. If you control your urges out of empathy and realizing your actions may hurt others, then it's ok. But if you don't have empathy, but are surpressing yourself out of fear of being judged, then it's weak imo.
Wait, I thought we were meant to flame each other based on what we think about nani? Why did this turn into some silly philosophical debate about the by definition false statement "you're not who you are"? >_> Keep on track ppl!!
On topic: any chance of Nani streaming, so that we can watch him lose, whine and insult, being provoked and overly retaliate. And play some great games ofc! I think it'd be 4 games of streaming before the first major insult towards a known player. Over/under anyone?
Love that Nani is back! Love him or hate him, I don't think that anyone can deny he's entertaining... and I think that's exactly what I personally need from the scene these days. A bit of entertainment.
People who have a one sided view on this player should watch this lengthy interview. There is much more to him as a person. I feel like alot of the comments show that some people rather have a narrow view on him just to be able to hate on him:
On January 19 2015 07:16 Dracolich70 wrote: It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player, and made into an article. Awful. Not sure if it is a slippery slope of regression for Starcraft or this site. Probably both.
Many would argue both. Especially the first one in my eyes. I haven't been around long enought to truely say anything about the second, but I do think this article was super unneccissary.
Oh c'mon. It's just fun humor on one of the most controversial SC2 players of all time. Plus, it helps to inform people that Naniwa is back from retirement.
And the Starcraft/E-sports scene has always been a sucker for player/team drama. People like seeing rage, insults, IRL fights between two scrawny players, etc.
Not really. You are talking about the group of people that translate a traffic accident as entertainment in their empty lives, and lack the empathy to do nothing else but laugh.
eSport is not built on drama, but the games themselves. If not, it lacks quality in itself. Players should be treated with some respect, not targeted as fun humor.
I agree its not build on drama, but the drama will attract more attention. When rivalries and grudges occur, the games become more entertaining.
Dana White understands how the drama can bring in more viewers; he signed Brock Lesnar for that very reason. Of course, the fighter/player has to have the skills necessary to enter the octagon/sit behind the screen.
I enjoy watching Naniwa because he is a beast at this game, but also because I want to see someone stomp him.
Is drama necessary to garner more attention? No. Will drama garner more attention? Yes.
I am not saying Starcraft 2 needs players like Naniwa and Idra, but when we do have these kinds of characters it makes the games more enjoyable.
To Naniwa, I wish you the best of luck, and I truly hope you make it to Premier league. I also hope that you get floor stomped in the Challenger league.
You are the only player that I will cheer and jeer. Keep on doing what you are doing. I am glad you are back.
But I am sure Brock Lesnar agrees to the fact that he is brought in as entertainment, as that element is part of MMA/Wrestling, while Naniwa does not.
These are young kids, playing games, and the media are trying to target them with labels of hero/villain is just wrong, as it only there to bring hateful notions to players, and shows more how desperate the state of Starcraft must be in. It is about branding him in an image, so they can sell their stuff, rather than sell him as a good player, which he is.
If drama garner more attention, then it tells the story that the game can't sell itself, or the audience need something not related to the game to be peaked. This is not a circus, but eSports. If TL wants to beat this drum, they have lost the path in my eyes.
I don't understand your post. My example of Brock was to show how talent plus personality can really bring in the ratings. The element of entertainment is a core aspect of any content, and whether you are entertained because of the players skills, or their personality, it doesn't make much difference.
Sure, Naniwa doesn't play this game for the purpose of entertaining the audience. He is playing it for himself, but it's that exact attitude that makes the audience even more involved.
And I don't think stuchiu's article demonized him into a villain or martyred him into a hero, because the audience is already polarized about Naniwa anyways, and this article only reminded us of who exactly is Naniwa.
Drama garners more attention, but its never the focus. The focus will always be skill, and nothing will take that away. Do you honestly think we would care about Naniwa if he wasn't a great player? As I said before, Naniwa brings talent and ego, but he would be just another Avilo if he didn't have the talent.
TL can write content with any angle they so wish, and perhaps they are using Naniwa's image to sell better content, but they never lied about anything. In my opinion, all they did was state the facts, and let the reader form their own opinion, which is responsible journalism.
If you feel TL has strayed from some holy honor of esports, then that is your respectful right, but I like my steak with sauce.
Brock is paid to be an entertainer, a target of hate or love(or indifference) - he has agreed to it, selling an imaginary image is what he also do. That is the business that he is in. eSport is virtual sports of competitors. Sure, people can like/dislike/be fanbois/be haters, but the difference should be what media tries to advocate. Naniwa is here to play a game. Media should focus on this, and leave the banter/stigmata/personal opinions to themselves or people. Media are not to form peoples opinions of a player, to the degree of hate/love/hero/villain. Therefore this article is trash, not becoming of a eSport news site, such as TL, unless they are aiming to be a click-tabloid.
TL can do what they want, but it doesn't remove opinions on what they are doing/allowing from news writers.
Dracolich70, we have different views on how the media (i.e. TL) should develop articles, and those views differ greatly. Whether it is newsworthy or tabloid trash is debatable but I don't want to get into a big debate over the merits of this article, because it would end up no where.
I do understand your objection, and to a certain degree you are correct. I would hate to read an article on ESPN about Pacman Jones and his adventures in strip clubs, but I would love to read about his neck injury. However, I don't think this article is trashy, but at least I understand how you feel.
On January 22 2015 11:40 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: Dracolich70, we have different views on how the media (i.e. TL) should develop articles, and those views differ greatly. Whether it is newsworthy or tabloid trash is debatable but I don't want to get into a big debate over the merits of this article, because it would end up no where.
I do understand your objection, and to a certain degree you are correct. I would hate to read an article on ESPN about Pacman Jones and his adventures in strip clubs, but I would love to read about his neck injury. However, I don't think this article is trashy, but at least I understand how you feel.
If you'd hate to read an article of Pacman Jones ,about his strip club adventures, you must absolutely loathe it being a verdict of how one should perceive his persona, whether or not you agree with it. It is trashtalk. Much like this article. It is unprofessional.
Naniwa, unlike Brock is not here to sell an (imaginary) image, but to compete. He didn't agree to be hero/villain, and let that be a selling point to the game/news site.
On January 22 2015 11:40 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: Dracolich70, we have different views on how the media (i.e. TL) should develop articles, and those views differ greatly. Whether it is newsworthy or tabloid trash is debatable but I don't want to get into a big debate over the merits of this article, because it would end up no where.
I do understand your objection, and to a certain degree you are correct. I would hate to read an article on ESPN about Pacman Jones and his adventures in strip clubs, but I would love to read about his neck injury. However, I don't think this article is trashy, but at least I understand how you feel.
If you'd hate to read an article of Pacman Jones ,about his strip club adventures, you must absolutely loathe it being a verdict of how one should perceive his persona, whether or not you agree with it. It is trashtalk. Much like this article. It is unprofessional.
Naniwa, unlike Brock is not here to sell an (imaginary) image, but to compete. He didn't agree to be hero/villain, and let that be a selling point to the game/news site.
This article didn't focus on Naniwa's persona, it also spoke about some of his accomplishments. Perhaps it could be written with less focus on Naniwa's image, and more about his skills and chances to advance, but like I said before, I like my steak with sauce. Although, I don't see this article as a verdict on Naniwa, but more of a sum of his talent and ego combined.
On January 22 2015 11:40 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: Dracolich70, we have different views on how the media (i.e. TL) should develop articles, and those views differ greatly. Whether it is newsworthy or tabloid trash is debatable but I don't want to get into a big debate over the merits of this article, because it would end up no where.
I do understand your objection, and to a certain degree you are correct. I would hate to read an article on ESPN about Pacman Jones and his adventures in strip clubs, but I would love to read about his neck injury. However, I don't think this article is trashy, but at least I understand how you feel.
If you'd hate to read an article of Pacman Jones ,about his strip club adventures, you must absolutely loathe it being a verdict of how one should perceive his persona, whether or not you agree with it. It is trashtalk. Much like this article. It is unprofessional.
Naniwa, unlike Brock is not here to sell an (imaginary) image, but to compete. He didn't agree to be hero/villain, and let that be a selling point to the game/news site.
Woah bro, the article is stating that Naniwa is both a player and a badass motherfucker who gives less than two shits about his image and would rather tweet some mildly offensive stuff instead.
The esports scene is not just about what players play, but also about the players themselves. I wouldn't say that the article was too extremely opinion-based. It was a pretty solid objective overview of Naniwa, as a person and player. I can understand one not caring for those types of articles and only wanting to see articles pertaining to Starcraft material exclusively, though. Unfortunately, that is not all TL cares about, and that's not all SC2 fans care about, either.
There are some parts of the article that make some assumptions; However, those assumptions are pretty logical.
On January 22 2015 11:40 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: Dracolich70, we have different views on how the media (i.e. TL) should develop articles, and those views differ greatly. Whether it is newsworthy or tabloid trash is debatable but I don't want to get into a big debate over the merits of this article, because it would end up no where.
I do understand your objection, and to a certain degree you are correct. I would hate to read an article on ESPN about Pacman Jones and his adventures in strip clubs, but I would love to read about his neck injury. However, I don't think this article is trashy, but at least I understand how you feel.
If you'd hate to read an article of Pacman Jones ,about his strip club adventures, you must absolutely loathe it being a verdict of how one should perceive his persona, whether or not you agree with it. It is trashtalk. Much like this article. It is unprofessional.
Naniwa, unlike Brock is not here to sell an (imaginary) image, but to compete. He didn't agree to be hero/villain, and let that be a selling point to the game/news site.
Woah bro, the article is stating that Naniwa is both a player and a badass motherfucker who gives less than two shits about his image and would rather tweet some mildly offensive stuff instead.
The esports scene is not just about what players play, but also about the players themselves. I wouldn't say that the article was too extremely opinion-based. It was a pretty solid objective overview of Naniwa, as a person and player. I can understand one not caring for those types of articles and only wanting to see articles pertaining to Starcraft material exclusively, though. Unfortunately, that is not all TL cares about, and that's not all SC2 fans care about, either.
There are some parts of the article that make some assumptions; However, those assumptions are pretty logical.
Yeah, I understand that this article is at large, "Naniwa is back, please resume your past opinion of him, in case you forgot, here it is.". Though much of it is created by overexaggerated media to create drama and fueling opinons for those finding it hard to have one, and trying to act like this is just how it is, or just reflecting peoples opinions. nor does it leave any room for moving on for any.
As I said in my initial post, "It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player",
Or as Waxangel says it, "good work stuchiu, keeping SC2 alive".
Well, I will leave it, realizing what it has become. Hope it doesn´t spread to the Dota 2 and HS section. Have fun.
On January 28 2015 01:22 Godwrath wrote: It only took 4 posts into shitstorm. Amazing. I think we need a new scale to measure sc2 polarizing personalities.
On January 22 2015 11:40 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote: Dracolich70, we have different views on how the media (i.e. TL) should develop articles, and those views differ greatly. Whether it is newsworthy or tabloid trash is debatable but I don't want to get into a big debate over the merits of this article, because it would end up no where.
I do understand your objection, and to a certain degree you are correct. I would hate to read an article on ESPN about Pacman Jones and his adventures in strip clubs, but I would love to read about his neck injury. However, I don't think this article is trashy, but at least I understand how you feel.
If you'd hate to read an article of Pacman Jones ,about his strip club adventures, you must absolutely loathe it being a verdict of how one should perceive his persona, whether or not you agree with it. It is trashtalk. Much like this article. It is unprofessional.
Naniwa, unlike Brock is not here to sell an (imaginary) image, but to compete. He didn't agree to be hero/villain, and let that be a selling point to the game/news site.
Woah bro, the article is stating that Naniwa is both a player and a badass motherfucker who gives less than two shits about his image and would rather tweet some mildly offensive stuff instead.
The esports scene is not just about what players play, but also about the players themselves. I wouldn't say that the article was too extremely opinion-based. It was a pretty solid objective overview of Naniwa, as a person and player. I can understand one not caring for those types of articles and only wanting to see articles pertaining to Starcraft material exclusively, though. Unfortunately, that is not all TL cares about, and that's not all SC2 fans care about, either.
There are some parts of the article that make some assumptions; However, those assumptions are pretty logical.
Yeah, I understand that this article is at large, "Naniwa is back, please resume your past opinion of him, in case you forgot, here it is.". Though much of it is created by overexaggerated media to create drama and fueling opinons for those finding it hard to have one, and trying to act like this is just how it is, or just reflecting peoples opinions. nor does it leave any room for moving on for any.
As I said in my initial post, "It must be desperate times for Starcraft, if the hero/villain tag has to be placed on a player",
Or as Waxangel says it, "good work stuchiu, keeping SC2 alive".
Well, I will leave it, realizing what it has become. Hope it doesn´t spread to the Dota 2 and HS section. Have fun.
Implying tagging individuals in sports as hero/villain is somehow connected to the success/popularity of said sport? It's a common trope that's used in thousands of news sites for all kinds of sports, like it or not.
Great writeup. Naniwa is awesome. Heels make life more interesting. And for a scene with personalities as bland as SC2, he's a godsend. The fact that he's more talented than everyone here makes it all the more enjoyable.
On January 29 2015 11:50 Orr wrote: Great writeup. Naniwa is awesome. Heels make life more interesting. And for a scene with personalities as bland as SC2, he's a godsend. The fact that he's more talented than everyone here makes it all the more enjoyable.
I think if he wasn't a talented player, he'd be the equivalent of Avilo...
On January 29 2015 11:50 Orr wrote: Great writeup. Naniwa is awesome. Heels make life more interesting. And for a scene with personalities as bland as SC2, he's a godsend. The fact that he's more talented than everyone here makes it all the more enjoyable.
The 10 post acounts that come to say Naniwa is god.
On January 29 2015 11:50 Orr wrote: Great writeup. Naniwa is awesome. Heels make life more interesting. And for a scene with personalities as bland as SC2, he's a godsend. The fact that he's more talented than everyone here makes it all the more enjoyable.
The 10 post acounts that come to say Naniwa is god.
TL turning into Reddit little by little.
Thanks Oba- I mean thanks Naniwa !!
So now it's forbidden to make that kind of post if you have less than X posts ? Wtf is wrong with you dude
It took me 1 or 2 years to make my account after discovering TL, stop acting like an elitist ffs
On January 18 2015 13:57 hatp wrote: NaNiwa is autistic
User was warned for this post
I am autist too, problems with it, is it just an observation or are you trying to be Mean =?
Recently it's being used as an insult more and more on the internet. He was just being an ass.
Yea it really is, i think the destiny streamviewer crowd is a huge part of it. Any time you go near there (a lot of people saying it with Grey Goo for example, after destiny/huk playing) it's quite obvious. People are happy using whatever words as general insults or talking down on others because of perceived inferiority especially if somebody leading their "group" is doing it.