EPTConsider gsl a bonus, either you don't watch it or you pay the 14/24 dollar per season for it (2015 has 3 gsl seasons).
What is even the purpose of this (flame) thread? Nobody cares someone rather watches his free dota, cs:go shit.
GSL Low quality Non-sub - Page 31
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anessie
180 Posts
Consider gsl a bonus, either you don't watch it or you pay the 14/24 dollar per season for it (2015 has 3 gsl seasons). What is even the purpose of this (flame) thread? Nobody cares someone rather watches his free dota, cs:go shit. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On January 17 2015 07:13 anessie wrote: What is even the purpose of this (flame) thread? Nobody cares someone rather watches his free dota, cs:go shit. "Nobody cares" that I'll be watching SSL instead of Code S? And you speak for GSL's sponsors when you say this, do you? | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
f you want a serious discussion then let's discuss how TotalBiscuits pulls more viewers on his LotV tournament than GSL on a stacked day. because I offer free 720p, prompt spoiler-free vods and dont air in an awful timeslot for foreign viewers?  | ||
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anessie
180 Posts
On January 17 2015 07:58 pure.Wasted wrote: "Nobody cares" that I'll be watching SSL instead of Code S? And you speak for GSL's sponsors when you say this, do you? Seemed to me people here established that gsl management doesn't really care about exposure of the sponsors for the English broadcast. I wouldn't even know who these sponsors are. In the "breaks" it's still the aged Asus & Corsair clips which date back to 2013. | ||
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
On January 17 2015 13:11 TotalBiscuit wrote: because I offer free 720p, prompt spoiler-free vods and dont air in an awful timeslot for foreign viewers? And how do you make money? | ||
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lost_artz
United States366 Posts
He likely doesn't off the tournament. If he does I can't imagine it's a lot. I think for TB in some cases it's more-so just about supporting the Scene and getting some extra exposure. Of course that's just speculation. I imagine he'll answer himself | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
By being popular. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On January 17 2015 13:11 TotalBiscuit wrote: because I offer free 720p, prompt spoiler-free vods and dont air in an awful timeslot for foreign viewers? Basically I agree with the last point, I'm not exactly sure how VODs influence live viewers but you are the expert. If anything I'd say that a horrible VOD system encourages live viewers, does it not? Since people have the mentality of "Oh hey, I need to catch this live, otherwise I'll never be able to watch it!" - that would be my assumption at least. But yeah, the fact that GSL streams at noon for EU and early in the morning for US timezones does a lot for their viewernumbers, and not in a positive way. The point I was trying to bring across asking this particular question is: GSL is a team of many people, with a rented/built studio and everything. Their english production consists of Tasteless, Artosis other casters(that all have living expenses!) and a view other staff members,a view extra cameras and all that. So it's not exactly free either. Yet, in the english stream, to finance that, they have around 15k viewers a view hours every week and that does not seem that much. Just to make that clear: I think that it's silly from Blizzard to have rules for WCS Global Events, but not Leagues, and I still think it sucks for both, the viewers and GSL itself, to have medium behind a paywall. But this feels to me like a decision someone in a suit made saying "There's not enough money. Get more money!" and thats practically their only way instead of increasing season prices. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On January 17 2015 19:49 KeksX wrote: Basically I agree with the last point, I'm not exactly sure how VODs influence live viewers but you are the expert. If anything I'd say that a horrible VOD system encourages live viewers, does it not? Since people have the mentality of "Oh hey, I need to catch this live, otherwise I'll never be able to watch it!" - that would be my assumption at least. But yeah, the fact that GSL streams at noon for EU and early in the morning for US timezones does a lot for their viewernumbers, and not in a positive way. The point I was trying to bring across asking this particular question is: GSL is a team of many people, with a rented/built studio and everything. Their english production consists of Tasteless, Artosis other casters(that all have living expenses!) and a view other staff members,a view extra cameras and all that. So it's not exactly free either. Yet, in the english stream, to finance that, they have around 15k viewers a view hours every week and that does not seem that much. Just to make that clear: I think that it's silly from Blizzard to have rules for WCS Global Events, but not Leagues, and I still think it sucks for both, the viewers and GSL itself, to have medium behind a paywall. But this feels to me like a decision someone in a suit made saying "There's not enough money. Get more money!" and thats practically their only way instead of increasing season prices. The problem with GSL is they have burned most of their goodwill from the early days and have lost their position as the only place to watch top Korean talent. Back in 2010-11, you had the same shitty stream, but you had a subscription that got you SICK quality, a great VoD system and an awesome website. Not only that but it was the only place to watch the best of the best and the only place to watch an actual instudio event with real production behind it. Outside of that, you got to watch mostly foreigners fighting in online events with terribad production or in the occasional live event. The instudio experience for GOM was completely different, it was a premium product worth paying for. Now it's not unique. It's competing with Proleague and Starleague and that's just on the Korean side. Instudio stuff for WCS has become very common and groups like ESL have got very good at it, better than GSL in some ways. They took away the website and replaced it with Twitch, which just flat out isnt as good (especially for VoDs oh lord). Worse still, while in the old days this was the only place to watch top Korean talent, now even people like me can do tournaments which successfully invite the best. Koreans have gone global and GSL has been left behind. They've cut their production value in the meantime, leaving us with a product which is just not as desirable anymore. What's the solution? I don't know. I think without further Blizzard help GSL is probably doomed, unless LOTV explodes in Korea. Its possible they could add enough value to get people to sub again but lost confidence is very hard to rebuild and there are other tournaments which are as good as GSL now and dont charge you through the nose to be able to watch it without burning your eyes out in glorious cinematic 240p or whatever the hell blurfest they stream in now. They'd have to offer something premium. What I would do if I were GSL 1) Offer a 1080p60 stream for season pass holders 2) Offer FP-views for both players 3) Set up your site to allow people to watch all 3 at once. 4) Run a small number of premium only showmatchs or events such as 2v2s. 5) Offer subscription holders entries to giveaways, featuring signed merch from players 6) A subscriber only pre-show, featuring interviews with players, coachs and casters. 7) Fantasy GSL for subscribers, complete with prizes for the winners. 8) Translated Korean cast highlights of the most hype moments 9) Move VoDs back to the site and make absolutely 100% sure they are promptly uploaded and spoiler free. 10) "GSL Offtime" - A lighthearted show where players take part in silly events such as a Zoozoobubble tournament. Just a few ideas. If GSL is to survive with this business model they must present a premium product. Currently they do not. The kind of people willing to pay that sort of money for GSL are the kind of people who are enthusiasts. Give them enthusiast-level content and they will come. In the meantime however, don't punish people for not subscribing. That level of quality is unwatchable. Even 480p should look better than that. | ||
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RHoudini
Belgium3632 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On January 17 2015 20:31 TotalBiscuit wrote: What I would do if I were GSL 1) Offer a 1080p60 stream for season pass holders 2) Offer FP-views for both players 3) Set up your site to allow people to watch all 3 at once. 4) Run a small number of premium only showmatchs or events such as 2v2s. 5) Offer subscription holders entries to giveaways, featuring signed merch from players 6) A subscriber only pre-show, featuring interviews with players, coachs and casters. 7) Fantasy GSL for subscribers, complete with prizes for the winners. 8) Translated Korean cast highlights of the most hype moments 9) Move VoDs back to the site and make absolutely 100% sure they are promptly uploaded and spoiler free. Just a few ideas. If GSL is to survive with this business model they must present a premium product. Currently they do not. The kind of people willing to pay that sort of money for GSL are the kind of people who are enthusiasts. Give them enthusiast-level content and they will come. In the meantime however, don't punish people for not subscribing. That level of quality is unwatchable. Even 480p should look better than that. (Sorry that I quote only that part now, I think the rest what you wrote is pretty clear cut and nothing to argue about it. I agree on most points, although I personally still trust GSL more than PL/OGN on SC2.) Would you say that moving to Twitch was a bad move for them? It seems like they don't do most things like that because it requires a lot of work on Twitch's side that they necessarily can't do anything about. Setting up 3 streams on Twitch is easy, but linking them so that 1 subscription enables all 3 in high quality is something else and they'd have to rely on Twitch for that. Just in general I think that the stuff they have done without Twitch was much better than Twitch itself. Even the horrible GOM player was running once you have managed to install it properly. I also think that a lot of what you suggested is great, but an investment. And they might not be able to justify that to those with the money. | ||
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Brett
Australia3823 Posts
On January 17 2015 00:45 kaluro wrote: The videostream is: 640x360 (=360p) 550kbps bitrate. So indeed, lower than 480p. 2014 had more average viewers and more total prize money, than any previous years had. I'm not sure what you're on about but I'd love for you to back-up your doomsaying claims. Or are you just trolling? :o 2014 did not have more viewers than sc2's heyday. 2010-2 were pretty huge years. This isn't a controversial claim lol... There may have been more prize money last year, I've not done any sort of comparison. | ||
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DeadByDawn
United Kingdom476 Posts
TBH my subscriptions are mostly to show my support for SC2. Being so busy with other things I may not even get to watch any of the games I have subscribed to. | ||
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
Best thing to do for GSL, in my opinion, is give Tastosis a PC to observe the game directly. Have the English stream have foreigner-oriented sponsors (as an overlay or something), the GSL is strong enough to attract those kinds of sponsors, I believe. Back to a proper VOD system. Reduce cost of subscription. Increasing stream quality for "free" viewers. They basically need to give the foreigner viewers a bit more attention. | ||
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andoRRR
Germany36 Posts
On January 17 2015 21:51 Brett wrote: 2014 did not have more viewers than sc2's heyday. 2010-2 were pretty huge years. This isn't a controversial claim lol... There may have been more prize money last year, I've not done any sort of comparison. Maybe GSL didn't have more viewers, but overall, with the first person streams and all the other tournaments every week I would say that there are more viewers than ever. I don't think that any player had 2000 viewers on his stream almost every day in 2012. And a small channel like BaseTradeTV with 5000 viewers+ for all their casts didn't exist too. There was only GSL. Because that's not the case anymore, but they are the only ones with such horrific stream conditions if you're no subscriber, everyone is complaining. With every right to, imo. Why watch something for $15 when you get it for free almost any other week... | ||
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ilikeredheads
Canada1995 Posts
The saddest part of all this is Blizzard's continuous silence on this matter. It pretty shows they just don't care. But then, if they did say something, it'll probably be the same PR bullshit along the lines of "we continue to listen to your feedback and they will be brought into our internal discusssions..blah blah blah.." | ||
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Lu_e
United States95 Posts
GOM have always liked to screw around. | ||
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Brett
Australia3823 Posts
On January 18 2015 06:18 andoRRR wrote: Maybe GSL didn't have more viewers, but overall, with the first person streams and all the other tournaments every week I would say that there are more viewers than ever. I don't think that any player had 2000 viewers on his stream almost every day in 2012. And a small channel like BaseTradeTV with 5000 viewers+ for all their casts didn't exist too. There was only GSL. Because that's not the case anymore, but they are the only ones with such horrific stream conditions if you're no subscriber, everyone is complaining. With every right to, imo. Why watch something for $15 when you get it for free almost any other week... I'm not 'doom saying' at all, but let's get real here... There has been a decline. These are the first two examples I found via searching/googling. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if I checked other tournaments they'd mostly show a similar downward trend on the whole. Streaming: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/440092-top-100-streamers-of-2013-top-50-of-december vs http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/475208-top-100-streamers-of-2014-top-50-of-december Dreamhack Winter: 2013 http://www.gosugamers.net/files/images/news/2013/december/infographic-dhw13-1_680px.png vs 2014 http://www.esports.gg/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Day3Dreamhack20141.jpg Plus articles by prominent community members speaking about the decline and what can be done. It's not a massive issue tbh. The only reason I made the original comment about viewership is that some people are saying in this thread that the decline is because of GOM's decision re: subs, which is just ridiculous. | ||
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