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On December 20 2014 00:00 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 23:57 Clonester wrote:
When S2 came out last year, everyone hated Merry go Round. Now people cry for it. Times change but I am glad that we lost these just to old, 100% discovered and thus boring maps. I think that just shows how much worse current map pool is
Maybe, but I think it is different:
When S3 came out, I hated FTL for a certain time ( while I had to play on it.. ) But every FTL-game shows me why this map has to be in the progamer pool, these games cant be compared to any other games on the typical KSS and Overgrowth. They are so different that I really get hyped when FTL is played (mostly as Map 7 in Grandfinals which could lead to my hype for that map too ), I will remember the Flash-Parting Game on FTL for ages, the KSS and Overgrowthgames, pfff what has happend there, I dont remember.
When Merry came out, everyone was like "ah shit, this Zerg map" and Terrans were like "we have to veto this crap" and Protoss was like "Soultrain or Veto" and now it is concidered as pretty much balanced even between Protoss and Zerg, where no heavy buffs or nerfs have changed the meta.
Edit:
Maybe Blizzard should think about making a WCS Mappool and a Mappool for the Ladder, while the Ladderpool is not only 7 maps big, but arround 13. Grandmasters have to play only on the WCS Mappool, Masters can join their "league" by queeing in a WCS Quee and Diamands can do it too, but they dont field against Grandmaster in this special ladder.
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On December 20 2014 00:06 Clonester wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 00:00 Ej_ wrote:On December 19 2014 23:57 Clonester wrote:
When S2 came out last year, everyone hated Merry go Round. Now people cry for it. Times change but I am glad that we lost these just to old, 100% discovered and thus boring maps. I think that just shows how much worse current map pool is Maybe, but I think it is different: When S3 came out, I hated FTL for a certain time ( while I had to play on it.. ) But every FTL-game shows me why this map has to be in the progamer pool, these games cant be compared to any other games on the typical KSS and Overgrowth. They are so different that I really get hyped when FTL is played (mostly as Map 7 in Grandfinals which could lead to my hype for that map too ), I will remember the Flash-Parting Game on FTL for ages, the KSS and Overgrowthgames, pfff what has happend there, I dont remember. When Merry came out, everyone was like "ah shit, this Zerg map" and Terrans were like "we have to veto this crap" and Protoss was like "Soultrain or Veto" and now it is concidered as pretty much balanced even between Protoss and Zerg, where no heavy buffs or nerfs have changed the meta.
Foxtrot is actually decent, and fun, I actually kind of sort of don't mind it as a choice if they feel they have to keep maps from last season.
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It seems I have rather unusual preferences :O I don't like King Sejong or Overgrowth and I love Deadwing and Nimbus, quite dislike Catallena.
I like the new changes, would have liked to see Foxtrot go though :/
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I agree. We are heading toward the last phase of HotS , gotta scrap every old map and remake the entire pool.
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On December 19 2014 23:57 Clonester wrote:
When Merry came out, everyone was like "ah shit, this Zerg map" and Terrans were like "we have to veto this crap" and Protoss was like "Soultrain or Veto" and now it is concidered as pretty much balanced even between Protoss and Zerg, where no heavy buffs or nerfs have changed the meta.
Merry was always considered to be T>Z>P...
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On December 20 2014 00:19 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 23:57 Clonester wrote:
When Merry came out, everyone was like "ah shit, this Zerg map" and Terrans were like "we have to veto this crap" and Protoss was like "Soultrain or Veto" and now it is concidered as pretty much balanced even between Protoss and Zerg, where no heavy buffs or nerfs have changed the meta.
Merry was always considered to be T>Z>P...
In S2, when there were no Thor and Mine Buffs, this map was not consideres as T>Z. It was considered as pure Zerg map.
Then Terrans began to abuse the cliff at the 4.base of the Zerg, gaving him a harsh time to establish the 4. base.
But only after the Minebuff and the Thorbuff the meta changed and it became a T>Z map.
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I don't mind what Blizzard did, I would have kicked Catallena if it were up to me but using how olds the maps are as a criterium is important as well.
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We need 7 new maps, every other map has been played too often.
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On December 19 2014 20:41 Tuczniak wrote:
Blizzard: We want to help zergs via maps. -> remove decent maps for Z, leave bad maps for Z. #Blizzardlogic.
except when you see the 4 new maps or test them. But Maps in Sc2 have one problem anyway. If it helps the Zerg most of the time it helps Bio against Protoss, if it helps Protoss most of the time it helps Mech against Zerg. Makes it almost impossible to make 3 way balanced maps. And strangely enough despite the veto system we use in tournaments, people still think that this is how the maps are supposed to be made.
Well it is also a strong influence by lazy players from all areas that don't want to play on different maps, because it helps their lazyness of being able to play one build.
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I'd keep only Foxtrot and KSS, but would only keep KSS because I feel like that map's potential hasn't been reached yet. Overgrowth is figured out and boring now, it's the same game for every matchup and doesn't have as much depth as KSS or Foxtrot.
That said, I think Blizzard should have considered bringing back older maps like Frost or Whirlwind, now that the game is more figured out.
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Out with the Old ! I want to see new maps.
I might barf on the next Overgrowth game.
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My map opinions are always so different from everyone else.
Master/ex-GM Z here
Keep Catallena
Kick Deadwing
Keep Foxtrot
Kick Overgrowth
Keep Merry Go Round
On the fence, but I said "Keep" King Sejong Station
Kick Nimbus
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Instead of pretending certain maps are imbalanced, lets look at some statistics.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vvoaL59.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TqE11ve.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/naVeiup.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hvHMx2G.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hzeTRJT.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MyOQ3ag.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wUvn4zr.png)
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King Sejong may be the best map ever.
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Change all the maps. They've all been around way too long and ladder has become incredibly boring.
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Really strange move by blizzard.
Overgrowth>King Sejong> Merry Go Round >Catallena> Deadwing > Foxtrot
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Get rid of them all. They're all pretty dull at this point.
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On December 20 2014 09:00 Ben... wrote:
Get rid of them all. They're all pretty dull at this point.
This assessment is dumb. Good maps aren't easy to make. When we have good ones, this is stupid to dump them just because they're old. Frost left too fast for instance. Nimbus was pretty hyped at the beginning (by Rotterdam especially) and turned out to be one of the worst maps ever devised.
I'm pretty sure people will be crying for Overgrowth and KSS to return when every BO5 will involve Secret Spring, Deadwing, Catallena or Inferno Pools.
The only thing I disagree with most people -if I am to believe this poll : Foxtrot Labs needs to stay. It's a pretty good map, still not figured out.
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EPT
