EPTLegacy of the Void: Multiplayer Development Update - Page 5
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
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fruity.
England1711 Posts
On December 18 2014 04:56 Musicus wrote: "when meching" oops, you're right mech does mean 100% mech. We never have bio there too. | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 18 2014 04:41 Lumi wrote: Since when is that /such/ a problem issue? This sounds like a TvP specific concern and frankly the boys aren't getting pulled as much .. which is the lone major exploit of that moment for Protoss, as far as I am aware. Open to your insights, though. - It's an issue because protoss is the race that has the most trouble securing extra expansions and splitting up their army to defend them. In LotV, economy changes will force protoss to do this though. Defending three bases is already an issue in HotS, of course depending on maps. Being forced to expand faster will automatically spread you more thin - which is fine for terran and zerg because their armies move very fast and work fine in smaller battles. Protoss armies are slow and rely a lot on unit/terrain synergy (zealot/sentry/colossus armies to defend the front -> stalkers to defend drops). Expanding faster = more places to defend = even more difficult to split your army correctly. This change alone would be a big nerf to protoss in HotS. - You also have to factor in the warpgate changes (8 second warpin time, 200% damage while warping in). Defensive emergency warpins won't exist anymore. Where you could previously warp in units to stall for time until your army or a part of it arrives, you won't be able to do that anymore. If you still warp in, those units will die incredibly fast and do nothing. It'd be like throwing resources at your opponent. This change alone would already be a gigantic problem in HotS. - The first two changes would already be hugely problematic for protoss as is, and we haven't even factored in the new units yet. Currently, terran gets HERCs and Cyclones (both are early-midgame units) and zerg gets Ravagers and Lurkers (which are midgame and late-midgame units respectively). For this early-midgame stage in the game, protoss gets... well, nothing. Immortals might be a bit stronger now against units that previously countered them (which is questionable, we'll have to test this), Disruptors are a tier 3 unit that costs insane amounts of gas and is only available at robotics bay tech, which means they most likely can't be in the game that early. Ravagers make forcefields irrelevant and Cyclones look like they counter every protoss unit (I'm quite sure that the unit will be massively worked on though, so don't think about it too much). So while the first two issues would already mess with protoss in its current state, LotV also introduces new units and abilities in the early-midgame for the other two races while protoss doesn't get any, has to expand faster and can't use defensive warpins anymore. What's really needed for protoss is a strong, beefy unit or concept that you can leave on its own, or with little support, and it will do fine. Something like a super-stalker. Of course you'd have to be incredibly careful not to turn that into an easy to mass, go across the map and kill people type of unit, but it's what protoss needs the most. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15905 Posts
the mineral changes will make the game super unforgiving, it will basically turn the game into "who kills the first base wins" since you will just starve out with very little chance to come back then. the worker change is also terrible. and why the hell does zerg need better AA? with tempests and ravens nerfed, zerg will already have maybe the strongest AA in the game. a mixture of broodlords, infestors and corruptors will be very hard to deal with; remember wol? it will certainly not be as strong as in wol since voidrays and carriers are buffed and terran has combined upgrades and better seeker missile, but i don't think zerg will have problems with heavy air armys at all. ah i forgot, they want to remove the combined upgrades, then it will probably be as strong as in wol. the infestor ability is really crap so i'm glad they are looking into it. Also i'm VERY sceptical how the lurker will work in sc2, and hope it won't replace the baneling. generally i really dislike the idea of adding even more splash damage in the game, therefore i also hope the disruptor will be changed. the HERC seems just completely useless now but maybe i'm missing something. | ||
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egrimm
Poland1199 Posts
On December 18 2014 04:47 purakushi wrote: Shield battery instead of overcharge, please. (remove mothership/msc, too) This might be good. Also i really liked "energize" from early HotS beta. Maybe add it to Battery as an upgrade? | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 18 2014 05:00 Grumbels wrote: I mean, that's true, but given Blizzard's track record I'm a bit worried they won't increase the cost of the Ultralisk Cavern. :/ I'll take this opportunity to promote a suggestion (although I think people didn't really like it the previous times I suggested it, so maybe it's embarrassing to bring it up): if you're building ultralisks the eggs should be one size larger so that you can scout ultralisk transitions easier. :p I actually think this would be a great change. Have different egg sizes/colors for different techs. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On December 18 2014 04:55 Musicus wrote: Soul Train is dead man, even Parting won't be able to make it work vs ravagers. Maybe we should implement moving forcefields then, to create epic forcefield-ravager shots interactions (and make PartinG a happy man again) | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On December 18 2014 04:58 Big J wrote: I think disruptors do a hell of a job for that, also early WP harass and stargate builds force (real) antiair (not the ravager shots against which no progamer will ever lose his early airunits against), so you can't go roach/ravager to begin with. Hm a deployed WP is an easy ravager target, and zergs have overrun Protoss stargate openers with pure roach already. Now imagine that when forcefields won't hold of the roaches and ravagers at least have the potential to hit air, including the MSC which is also an easy target. I think Protoss will just get swarmed, even their warpins are slower. Now I don't know how early you can get how many disruptors out. They might do it, but I'm sceptical, lots of play testing needed I guess. Edit: Disruptor seems to be robo bay tech can costs 300 gas? No way that holds off roach/ravager max. You will have more bases to defend too and defensive warpins suck hard now. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On December 18 2014 05:05 OtherWorld wrote: Maybe we should implement moving forcefields then, to create epic forcefield-ravager shots interactions (and make PartinG a happy man again) loool, give forcefields blink | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On December 18 2014 05:03 fruity. wrote: oops, you're right mech does mean 100% mech. We never have bio there too. Yeah pretty much, otherwise it's bio/mech  . | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20282 Posts
Prior to this change, whoever clicked faster was the more effective player using this unit. They say that like it's some really terrible thing that should be avoided that's kind of the whole point of micro - doing more small things faster and more intelligently than your opponent in return for an advantage in gameplay | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
Herc change  Meh why change a cool unit to keep a dull unit (hellbat). Knockback effect seems something that doesn't belong into Starcraft.I like how they reference dota's doom spell. Other changes seem logical enough. Economy change seems a little random. | ||
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Lumi
United States1612 Posts
On December 18 2014 05:11 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Protoss does not need a new harassment unit... please. I don't like all the gimmicky units, just add some more basic ones. Herc change Meh why change a cool unit to keep a dull unit (hellbat). Knockback effect seems something that doesn't belong into Starcraft.I like how they reference dota's doom spell. Other changes seem logical enough. Economy change seems a little random. I was interpreting that as a reference to their own doom spell originating in warcraft 3, cast by doom guards | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 18 2014 05:11 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Protoss does not need a new harassment unit... please. I don't like all the gimmicky units, just add some more basic ones. Herc change Meh why change a cool unit to keep a dull unit (hellbat). Knockback effect seems something that doesn't belong into Starcraft.I like how they reference dota's doom spell. Other changes seem logical enough. Economy change seems a little random. Personally, I think the HERC could have really cool synergy with biomine play if it's worked right. Imagine a HERC knocking a group of banelings into range of a few mines, or even into tank range. I obviously don't know how exactly the ability would work or if that would be feasible, but I could see it being a really cool feature in the vein of the micro tricks a lot of people are asking for. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15905 Posts
it's just a 1 click "my unit is now better" ability; this is not interesting micro but just brainless apm drain. basically like the voidray charge, the fight begins and you activate it, much fun. I already imagine tasteless saying "GREAT BARRIER" | ||
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AyaaLa
Spain629 Posts
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ANLProbe
667 Posts
On December 18 2014 04:06 EatThePath wrote: Why do I get the impression whenever I read these that the sc2 design team has no idea what it's doing. I get the same impression. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
I also lov more communication from Blizz | ||
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paddyz
Ireland628 Posts
Imo this would be bad for the game as in moderation they are my favourite thing about the game, because in these situations micro is rewarded most. | ||
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