EPTOn January 12 2015 23:36 RaFox17 wrote:
You do make a strong argument with your numbers and facts and stuff, but not sure wether to believe you or the multiple people saying SC2 is a daed game. They do seem quite convinced.
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2015 20:09 Eliezar wrote:
It wasn't in a west that couldn't compete. When the scene transitioned to Korea many of the best west players had moved on and Bnet had already lost much of its population. Players like Zileas, Sosowac, Gadianton, and TillerMan were no longer in the game when professional starcraft took off in Korea...you take those 4 and add Grrr... and Maynard and you have the 6 best players during Bnets hey day. Pillars, Kain, Jolly, and Honest (Korean) were behind those players until those players started dropping off.
I'm not buying the revised history that StarCraft was bigger in Korea than StarCraft 2 is in the entire world either. Sure in Korea there was a bigger impact on television and in the studio, but...there were 4 major individual tournaments in 2001; in 2011 there were way more premier tournaments in Korea (11), in Europe (8), and in the North America (12). There was a massive amount of prize money for the year, there were great crowds, and there were solid online streaming numbers.
Moneywise 2001 saw the largest tournament pay out less than $10k US...2011 saw the largest tournament pay out almost $190k US. The largest broodwar prize pool ever was about $110k US...there were 7 tournaments in 2011 alone that had larger prize pools than that, 3 in 2010, and 6 in 2012 (including the $250k US prize money world championship), 9 in 2014, and I forgot to count 2013 and don't feel like going back and looking it up.
So starcraft 2 has had MORE tournaments, bigger prize pools, and has had an actual global audience.
Its actually pretty crazy how successful the game has been.
On January 12 2015 06:02 DemigodcelpH wrote:
That was in a west that couldn't compete. The Korean BW scene was bigger than the SC2 Korean + west scene combined.
On January 11 2015 07:11 Eliezar wrote:
To me it seems more non Koreans play SC2 at 4 years past release than played BW at 4 years after SC's release. You'd log onto BNET and it would be endless bots and empty channel ghost towns. I think there is the myth of Broodwar that doesn't represent the reality. Warcraft 3 coming out in 2002 also took away much of what was left of the Broodwar scene...sure Grrr and Pillars and Maynard and Dudey and whoever were living in Korea (okay so ilnp doesn't count) but there wasn't much of a Broodwar scene at that point outside of Korea.
On January 08 2015 11:44 BaronVonOwn wrote:
I feel like you can't go wrong if you err on the side of making it more like BW. BW didn't start fizzling out 3 years after release and there's a reason for that. Look at CSGO. They made a few small, evolutionary changes rather than massively breaking from the past. They stayed true to the Counter-Strike formula and that is being rewarded big time.
I don't see what problem this is solving? How does this make the game more fun?
On January 07 2015 01:19 Big J wrote:
The difference between Broodwar and SC2 is in mindset.
In Broodwar, when something was a "hardcounter" people just had to put up with it because blizzard would never patch the game.
SC2 has the problem of the second-born. BW people expect the game to offer the same strategies as their game had, aka "this is supposed to be BW 2.0".
Then there is the young generation of SC2-fans that is spoiled by how much blizzard supported the game with patches. And now demand that anything they would like to have playable to become playable, aka "I want to be able to mass my favorite unit in every matchup".
And then there are the guys that are annoyed by patches and expansions and hate whenever one of their previous options becomes weaker or unviable, aka, "blizzard destroying strategies".
If people would just put up with immortals hardcountering tanks as they did with reavers hardcountering M&M in BW, we could have actual discussions about improving the game instead of "why isn't this BW"/"why I don't want this to be BW".
The difference between Broodwar and SC2 is in mindset.
In Broodwar, when something was a "hardcounter" people just had to put up with it because blizzard would never patch the game.
SC2 has the problem of the second-born. BW people expect the game to offer the same strategies as their game had, aka "this is supposed to be BW 2.0".
Then there is the young generation of SC2-fans that is spoiled by how much blizzard supported the game with patches. And now demand that anything they would like to have playable to become playable, aka "I want to be able to mass my favorite unit in every matchup".
And then there are the guys that are annoyed by patches and expansions and hate whenever one of their previous options becomes weaker or unviable, aka, "blizzard destroying strategies".
If people would just put up with immortals hardcountering tanks as they did with reavers hardcountering M&M in BW, we could have actual discussions about improving the game instead of "why isn't this BW"/"why I don't want this to be BW".
I feel like you can't go wrong if you err on the side of making it more like BW. BW didn't start fizzling out 3 years after release and there's a reason for that. Look at CSGO. They made a few small, evolutionary changes rather than massively breaking from the past. They stayed true to the Counter-Strike formula and that is being rewarded big time.
On January 07 2015 01:28 Grumbels wrote:
Maybe larva shouldn't regenerate when eggs are still morphing (i.e. eggs count as larva for the limit of 3), that way units with higher cost/larva can get higher build time to effectively bring down this ratio, which might be good since for other races cost/production is more or less constant for all units.
Maybe larva shouldn't regenerate when eggs are still morphing (i.e. eggs count as larva for the limit of 3), that way units with higher cost/larva can get higher build time to effectively bring down this ratio, which might be good since for other races cost/production is more or less constant for all units.
I don't see what problem this is solving? How does this make the game more fun?
To me it seems more non Koreans play SC2 at 4 years past release than played BW at 4 years after SC's release. You'd log onto BNET and it would be endless bots and empty channel ghost towns. I think there is the myth of Broodwar that doesn't represent the reality. Warcraft 3 coming out in 2002 also took away much of what was left of the Broodwar scene...sure Grrr and Pillars and Maynard and Dudey and whoever were living in Korea (okay so ilnp doesn't count) but there wasn't much of a Broodwar scene at that point outside of Korea.
That was in a west that couldn't compete. The Korean BW scene was bigger than the SC2 Korean + west scene combined.
It wasn't in a west that couldn't compete. When the scene transitioned to Korea many of the best west players had moved on and Bnet had already lost much of its population. Players like Zileas, Sosowac, Gadianton, and TillerMan were no longer in the game when professional starcraft took off in Korea...you take those 4 and add Grrr... and Maynard and you have the 6 best players during Bnets hey day. Pillars, Kain, Jolly, and Honest (Korean) were behind those players until those players started dropping off.
I'm not buying the revised history that StarCraft was bigger in Korea than StarCraft 2 is in the entire world either. Sure in Korea there was a bigger impact on television and in the studio, but...there were 4 major individual tournaments in 2001; in 2011 there were way more premier tournaments in Korea (11), in Europe (8), and in the North America (12). There was a massive amount of prize money for the year, there were great crowds, and there were solid online streaming numbers.
Moneywise 2001 saw the largest tournament pay out less than $10k US...2011 saw the largest tournament pay out almost $190k US. The largest broodwar prize pool ever was about $110k US...there were 7 tournaments in 2011 alone that had larger prize pools than that, 3 in 2010, and 6 in 2012 (including the $250k US prize money world championship), 9 in 2014, and I forgot to count 2013 and don't feel like going back and looking it up.
So starcraft 2 has had MORE tournaments, bigger prize pools, and has had an actual global audience.
Its actually pretty crazy how successful the game has been.
You do make a strong argument with your numbers and facts and stuff, but not sure wether to believe you or the multiple people saying SC2 is a daed game. They do seem quite convinced.
i giggled :D
p.s. inb4 bw fanboys get here with their pitchforks
