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On December 18 2014 03:54 padiseal2 wrote:
still not enough changes to my liking. I feel like at this stage of the game they should be waay more experimental.
One cannot expect an actual new game when only an expansion is released.
On December 18 2014 03:51 swissman777 wrote:
Encourage people to expand, but please don't FORCE them. Early game contains are good as they are as it seems to be effective.
If the encouragement is strong enough, it is more or less a force.
Any why not "FORCE" them to expand?
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On December 18 2014 04:23 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 04:22 Zealously wrote:On December 18 2014 04:14 fruity. wrote:On December 18 2014 04:09 SC2Toastie wrote:It's really nice they're keeping us well updated this time around! Good Job Blizzard! On December 18 2014 04:03 fruity. wrote:
Oh blizzard, maybe you do have a PR department after all.
Coincidence this came out one day ofter Destiny's blog? I think not.
Interesting to see the changes their working on, and their thoughts going forward. I disagree, they've posted a multiplayer balance before and I really like how they keep us posted. You're reading way to much into that blog of Destiny. There really is nothing new in there except for a ton of Reddit minions hyping it up because their lord and savior wrote it. Really? You honestly think this isn't exactly what PR is about? This release is entirely to deflect Destiny's blog article.
GUY GUYS!! FORGET ABOUT THAT LOOK AT ALL THIS COOL NEW STUFF!!!! In fairness, Psione tweeted about "things coming this week" before Destiny's blog blew up. I hope this isn't it for things to come this week. I wanna see some new maps!
Friday #dreampool is gone (HURRAY!), and some new maps are going to be added to custom. Not on ladder, but we can try them at least.
Other news, LURKERS ARE STILL IN THE GAME AND GETTING A BUFF. My little zerg heart has been aflutter since they brought my babies back and they are making them better?! Still doesn't make up for #dreampool, but they are trying.
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did Existor make that banner?
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Ugh cyclone.
I wish Blizzard would take drastic measures. Especially for the economy. :/
Sigh, remove overcharge and give Protoss some sorry of shield battery.
Glad for the update, nevertheless.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 18 2014 04:26 HelloSon wrote:
did Existor make that banner?
Nope, V1 did.
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On December 18 2014 04:23 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 04:22 Zealously wrote:On December 18 2014 04:14 fruity. wrote:On December 18 2014 04:09 SC2Toastie wrote:It's really nice they're keeping us well updated this time around! Good Job Blizzard! On December 18 2014 04:03 fruity. wrote:
Oh blizzard, maybe you do have a PR department after all.
Coincidence this came out one day ofter Destiny's blog? I think not.
Interesting to see the changes their working on, and their thoughts going forward. I disagree, they've posted a multiplayer balance before and I really like how they keep us posted. You're reading way to much into that blog of Destiny. There really is nothing new in there except for a ton of Reddit minions hyping it up because their lord and savior wrote it. Really? You honestly think this isn't exactly what PR is about? This release is entirely to deflect Destiny's blog article.
GUY GUYS!! FORGET ABOUT THAT LOOK AT ALL THIS COOL NEW STUFF!!!! In fairness, Psione tweeted about "things coming this week" before Destiny's blog blew up. I hope this isn't it for things to come this week. I wanna see some new maps!
Well they already said we get to see and play 4 new maps on friday. They really delivered a lot this week.
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On December 18 2014 04:11 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 04:00 Zealously wrote:
Whoever learns how to knock banelings into mine range will be a TvZ god That + Nukes = 0_0 I like it!
Will be funny to see them knock massive units back. It's like vipers pulling colossi.
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Protoss sure need another early game gimicky harassment unit
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Don’t add upgrades on for unit late-game units.
Units like Battlecruisers, Carriers, or Thors come out so late that additional upgrades aren’t as interesting. Generally speaking, the late tier units are used only after the upgrades are purchased anyways, so we don’t see a huge value in adding more upgrades to them. For example, Ultralisks wait until their armor upgrade is done because both building Ultralisks and researching the upgrade start at the same time. So this upgrade is clearly not as interesting as say like Zergling speed or Marine stim pack that really change up how the units already on the battlefield are used.
We’re also considering splitting-up mech and air upgrades once again for Legacy of the Void. Currently, the unit lineup for the Factory and Starport are both very solid, and so we wonder if bringing back the choice of which tech to upgrade will make those upgrade decisions more interesting. For example, our internal playtests are seeing multiple builds that involve mixing bio with mech or air independently. Therefore, we believe splitting the upgrades might add to the strategy. It’s important to remember however, that we’ve made a lot of changes in order to make mech viable, so we need to be careful and see if this change would make mech less of a strategic option.
The Starcraft upgrade system is archaic and clearly dates to the dawn of RTS games. It is generic and seems to mainly exist for structural purposes, it's not obvious whether it even improves the game and there are a number of cases where it seems to hurt the game. Nevertheless, you can't simply mess with it without understanding the impact it has on the game. This strikes me as very typical for Blizzard: deem some aspect of the game problematic and endeavor to change it without comprehension of the wider implications. I hope they don't forget to think.
Anyway, here are some specific thoughts on upgrades:
- the +25 energy for caster upgrades are constantly being removed or changed for some balance purpose. I wish Blizzard could make up their minds and decide on some sort of stable design. Currently there is an evident lack of parity in caster energy systems which is not compensated for by each system being uniquely interesting (vipers are unique, which is acceptable). Instead one caster starts with 75, the other with 50, others with 50 but with access to +25. Please make all of them the same.
- It's easy for zerg to switch tech options and overwhelm with a wholly new composition. One purpose that Chitinous Plating fulfills is to encourage zerg to produce ultralisks which are not yet at full strength. The other player can scout this and respond before the ultralisk army is at full power. Alternatively the zerg can wait for the upgrade, but this takes a lot of time. You can't simply add the ability right from the start without impacting the game flow. It's not fair to terran players, after all they can't mass produce 20 marauders at once without warning.
- Air units tend to come late in the game without the player having researched any upgrades for them. A normal interaction would be a +0 air unit versus a +1 anti-air unit. This implies a balance risk to fully upgraded air units. I think it's an issue with the upgrade system used and probably the best way to account for it is to remove air upgrades altogether and incorporate them into ones used by ground units and rebalance accordingly.
- I think dark templar could get an upgrade, it seems a bit silly to have a dark shrine with no other function than to unlock dark templar -- the only building in the game which is like this. It might also allow Blizzard to cut the build time of the dark shrine, which is annoyingly high.
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why is protoss getting another harasser ? also why does it need to be a phaseshifter feels boring to me... Protoss is all about immortality as it seems like-.-
Why dont we get a new gateway unit that is actually useful throughout the game and remove boring units that just splash all day. I dont want anymore harassing units i already have oracles Dts blink stalker ht drops and soon disruptor drops.
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I'm very surprised more than 40% of the voters don't like the mineral change. I think it's amazing. Now they just need to keep the workers at 6, maybe at put it at 8.
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I dont like this. A new unit with the immune type again? Feels like the new unit is very focused beeing a harass unit.
Was expecting more changes, more radical changes. Like design protoss so they function very well without the mscore.
Tweak of more core units.
The new eco change feels very uninspirational. In lotv the custom map, the economy felt like shit imo. A sample of 5games.
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On December 18 2014 04:34 bartus88 wrote:
I'm very surprised more than 40% of the voters don't like the mineral change. I think it's amazing. Now they just need to keep the workers at 6, maybe at put it at 8.
Yeah, I'd prefer 6-8 workers but have some of the mineral patches high yield.
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Photon overcharge hits air again.... well there goes my excitement for LOTV
And protoss another harassing unit?!?!?!! their list of possibilities in the early game isnt long enough!?
Note to myself, never ever get excited about a game till it has been released.
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Immortal Barrier ability is an upgrade
The Barrier ability combined with the new ranged pick up from Warp Prisms has been too difficult to defend against without having air units. We’re currently testing having the ability as an upgrade. We may need to make tweaks to improve the ability if needed, but this is something we’ll look at going forward.
Meh, just reduce warp prism speed to where it used to be and don't allow 6 range pick-up and nerf warp prism shields and put immortal range back to 5.
To be honest I think Blizzard should adopt the Starbow approach of reducing viking range with an upgrade to give it back later in the game. Vikings can shut down a lot of harassment so easily, and the absurd range isn't even necessary anymore with the 8 range colossus.
Also, if harassment options are weaker then it's easier to expand, Blizzard needs to find the right balance there. Sometimes I feel like Blizzard just overuses the word harassment on purpose because they know many community members respond positively to the thought of games involving harassment, regardless of whether it makes for superior design.
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The Mineral change is amazing. Other than that they still have the right general idea, was just hoping they were a little further along. Cutting the Cyclone and Herc+new unit for Protoss.
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On December 18 2014 04:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Protoss needs an early/midgame unit that keeps us alive. Harassing isn't an issue when you can open blink, oracle, warp prism, phoenixes, etc. But what's a real issue is that protoss needs to be able to survive the bridge between gateway units and high tech AoE.
Since when is that /such/ a problem issue? This sounds like a TvP specific concern and frankly the boys aren't getting pulled as much .. which is the lone major exploit of that moment for Protoss, as far as I am aware. Open to your insights, though.
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Mostly very sensible decisions by Blizz. It's nice to see they have identified most of the problems we have been complaining about (economy, zerg AA, micro requirements for units) and are actively trying to fix it !
Also, I find their idea for the minerals changes a really elegant solution to the problem. Overall, this kind of update makes me more hopeful than ever for LotV ! Great job Blizz', keep going :-)
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On December 18 2014 04:37 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
Photon overcharge hits air again.... well there goes my excitement for LOTV
In think they need it, corruptors can harass their buildings now, banshees have a speed upgrade and warpin time has been doubled.
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On December 18 2014 04:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Protoss needs an early/midgame unit that keeps us alive. Harassing isn't an issue when you can open blink, oracle, warp prism, phoenixes, etc. But what's a real issue is that protoss needs to be able to survive the bridge between gateway units and high tech AoE.
So much this.
We need smth similar to dragoon.
Starbow has really cool solution: they moved stalkers to be more harass oriented unit and less multi purpose as they are currently in hots and added dragoons to fill the gap and allow protoss for more freedom to move on the map.
That might need tweaking warp gate tech, but blizzard already stated they gonna at least change it a bit.
I'd like to test postponing WG, so 1base WG rushes won't be a thing.
Maybe add requirement for WG to have Twilight Council or even move WG to TC ?
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EPT
