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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On November 22 2014 02:31 TedCruz2016 wrote: P has already had great AoEs. There's really no need for another. as a P player I dont understand their thinking on this. Do we need another ground splash damage unit. We pretty much reign supreme in that area already. I was hoping for a new ground to air unit. Nothing fancy, no spells, just a protoss Goliath | ||
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TedCruz2016
Hong Kong271 Posts
On November 22 2014 02:41 BaronVonOwn wrote: A lot of people hate the colossus and want it replaced. Colossus can be replaced, the fancy-schmancy lasers can't! | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On November 21 2014 22:53 clickrush wrote: who else thinks that... ...the cyclone would be way more cooler if it dealt much more damage but had to stand still to do so instead of being able to kite, while having the kite mode for free (without the charging up time) but it would then deal much less damage? That would emphasize micro much more while still being very different from the siege tank because it would have a way different application and skillset. ...the disruptor being scrapped and his overload (without the invicibility) was a DT upgrade. It would leave the DT uncloaked for a short period after the overload or right before it hits. You still had the utility to close in from cloak but it would be counterplayable. ..the shuttle should have a visible animation (mb a beam) when it loads in units from range. If the cyclone can kite units, the damage is mostly irrelevant in the early game. It could do the low low DPS of a stalker and still murder everything, because it simply cannot be caught. It's already not going to be used TvZ because the hellion is superior for the same objectives in that matchup, it might be used in TvT, but it's role is in TvP, and nothing protoss has can catch it until blink is done. I can see a variety of alternative design functions for it however. Taking away the attacking while moving function, but giving it a sort of root mode of its own where it can only hit air, like a mobile missile turret, would be cool. Or leaving its kiting function the same but make it so it only works on air units, and cannot hit ground, would make it fine. | ||
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
On November 22 2014 02:12 BaronVonOwn wrote: I'd like the disruptor a lot more if it had a detonate command similar to banelings. As it is right now, it seems way too easy to dodge and pretty weak. If this unit costs 200-300 gas (equivalent to 8-12 banelings) shouldn't it at least have some semireliable damage like banelings? It was said that the disruptor has a speed of like 5 or something when triggered which would make it really hard to dodge. Plus it does 150 dmg which makes it vastly superior to a colossus in the regard that even one disruptor will kill most units with one hit. Could be great to defend against drops, and will probably force splits or liftoffs from terran bio. Plus it is not vulnerable to air and - very important - if you send a few disruptors at a terran bio ball, they will have to run, split or die. if they run or split they take dmg from the rest of your army. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On November 22 2014 05:35 Freeborn wrote: It was said that the disruptor has a speed of like 5 or something when triggered which would make it really hard to dodge. Plus it does 150 dmg which makes it vastly superior to a colossus in the regard that even one disruptor will kill most units with one hit. Could be great to defend against drops, and will probably force splits or liftoffs from terran bio. Plus it is not vulnerable to air and - very important - if you send a few disruptors at a terran bio ball, they will have to run, split or die. if they run or split they take dmg from the rest of your army. Storms already accomplish those goals. The disruptor, as designed, is unnecessary and doesn't add anything. | ||
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
On November 22 2014 08:18 Whitewing wrote: Storms already accomplish those goals. The disruptor, as designed, is unnecessary and doesn't add anything. Disruptor is David Kim's way to bring back Reaver micro.. BUT it's cost is too damn high to even try that Basically the Disruptor is meant to be paired with the Warp-Prism and it's brand new 6 pickup range.. Well - the difference is - it's gonna be even harder cause now you don't drop, target and pick up, but instead drop, Activate, MOVE, and THEN pick up after it has been detonated I seriously doubt that even Bisu himself would be able to effectively do that, yet that being done by a random ladder-er  On the bright side however - it seems well paired with the new Stasis Trap ability of Oracle - see when the stasis expires - activate the Disruptor to do the AoE That's what I basically get from that | ||
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
On November 22 2014 08:18 Whitewing wrote: Storms already accomplish those goals. The disruptor, as designed, is unnecessary and doesn't add anything. Not really, the disruptor actually kills stuff, storms only kill stuff if it doesn't move for 2-3 secs. Plus templars run out of energy after max two storms and usually get fused to archons. And yet even more importantly - disruptor will give a damn about EMP. Oh and yes stasis followed by a disruptor, should be cool. I think the basic idea is not terribly bad, but I agree that it's not the best possible new unit for protoss. | ||
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
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KrOmander
United Kingdom78 Posts
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Zanzabarr
Canada217 Posts
Terran has helions / hellbats / widowmines/ tanks. Zerg has banelings and now the ravager. Protoss needs a mid tier aoe unit. This would allow a-move deathball units like the colossus to be reworked / replaced with something else, and even possibly enable a nerf / rework to forcefields / warpgate. As it stands now, the proposed changes for the economy in LOTV are going to be very hard to balance if protoss isn't able to compete with the other races tech for tech and cost for cost. If they expect to have the game revolve around more small skirmishes in several spread out locations, the addition of a lower tier aoe unit, or stronger gateway unit is pretty necessary. Without such things, I expect toss in LOTV to do nothing but 1-3 base all-ins every game, as they are forced to move around in a deathball out of necessity. The mothership core overcharge and recall were band-aids to help protoss deal with being a deathbally immobile race that is weak to multi-pronged attacks and counter-attacks. If 3-4 bases suddenly becomes 5-6 at the same game time, such band-aids will no longer be sufficient. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On November 22 2014 05:25 Whitewing wrote: If the cyclone can kite units, the damage is mostly irrelevant in the early game. It could do the low low DPS of a stalker and still murder everything, because it simply cannot be caught. It's already not going to be used TvZ because the hellion is superior for the same objectives in that matchup, it might be used in TvT, but it's role is in TvP, and nothing protoss has can catch it until blink is done. I can see a variety of alternative design functions for it however. Taking away the attacking while moving function, but giving it a sort of root mode of its own where it can only hit air, like a mobile missile turret, would be cool. Or leaving its kiting function the same but make it so it only works on air units, and cannot hit ground, would make it fine. The game will be redesigned. Will be a new game in beta. Why do you draw conclusions like this? Protoss might have an easier access to blink. Getting it alot faster since it will not break any mu. Hell, stalkers might start with a weaker blink and then able to upgrade it to a better blink on the citadel. There is still forcefield involved. Zealots might get a redesign with faster speed. Wouldnt be surprised if the unit will perhaps move faster than a stalker in Lotv. Then it can catch cyclones... They might get a more fun micro-skill ability to to catch cyclones. Or atleast be used against cyclones when cooldown is off or if they get energy or something else. Hellions initself dont cut it, they are terrible throughout the entire game. Their only role is versus zerglings. And the interaction is usually boring with this unit. Cyclone can change this. Much better interactions, more fun ones. Kill static defence, attack armored units. Might open up mech in a whole different level. If we look at broodwar real fast, the vulture were terrible against armored units. Yet, it opened up a lot of play for mech. If we compare 2cyclones vs 2hellions. I see alot of times the hellions dont kill a single worker while the 2cyclones might. Protoss might need to go new opening completely vs terran. Warpgate might get chagned even further. Why cant 1fast robotic be standard? Immortals might get a new role, behave differently etc. Cyclone might get tweaked so it has less range when locked on. Lots of things will change, its kinda pointless drawing conclusions. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On November 22 2014 08:18 Whitewing wrote: Storms already accomplish those goals. The disruptor, as designed, is unnecessary and doesn't add anything. It atleast adds micro for the aoe unit. Hell, its even possible to flank with this unit, i think this is like the first time i see a heavy cost unit able to flank. Great synergy with warpprism. Imo, this unit has potential to be really fun. And why cant blizzard tweak/redeisgn/remove colossus? It has never been fun in thefirst place, its about time they do something to this unit. The boring part with the disruptor is the immune part. I dont know, maybe its not fun to play against that sort of thing but we will see.. More hp, more passive speed, remove the immune part might work. Maybe hellion or any other support unit can speed up singletarget units->adds synergy to disruptor. Lots of things will change in Lotv. Blizzard just said so themself. EDIT: Oops saw you wrote about storm. Well, protoss has always had 2big aoe units. The disruptor seems different. I think it can open up agressive play with this unit like i have never seen a unit this costly do before. Early midgame etc, without going all-in. Not even the reaver in broodwar did this since that unit needs alot of support. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Blizzard are aware units are overlapping with each other. Things will change. Probably alot. Its better to talk about design of the units. What to add. How to make better interactions(I see like no ppl trying to imrpove the interactions). | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On November 22 2014 08:18 Whitewing wrote: Storms already accomplish those goals. The disruptor, as designed, is unnecessary and doesn't add anything. Yeh, I mostly agree with you here. I am really a bit curious to see how Blizzard will seperate the roles of Collosus vs Disruptor vs HT. It atleast adds micro for the aoe unit. Hell, its even possible to flank with this unit, i think this is like the first time i see a heavy cost unit able to flank. What worries me about the Disruptor is that I think terrans will micro against it like they micro against HT's: By spreading out/splitting. In my opinion, it's better if each unit add a unique form of micro interaction. Can people stop draw conclusions??? Blizzard are aware units are overlapping with each other. Things will change. Probably alot. Blizzard just has a really bad track-record when it comes to being right where the community had concerns. Based on that, I think it's far that we remain very sceptical with regards to whether Blizzard are capable of making these 3 units feel unique and fun. | ||
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Axxis
United States133 Posts
Remove collossus, buff gateway units for early game and make air-toss viable for late game. Make pylons have an upgrade that lets them be able to warp-in. prewarpgate tech you just produce normally, afterward you have to have an upgraded pylon if you morph your gateways. (would be a strategical target) Just get rid of hellions/hellbats and bring back the firebat! Increase siege tank damage in siege mode. Make herc into a mech style unit from factory. Increase medivac capacity and reduce it's movespeed. Revert Fungal! Toss has tempest now(or did and still may) for Blords, such a great unit reduced to mediocrity. Increase health/armor of nydus. Increase creep tumor cast range and effect range. Give overseer a morph into leviathan dropship. | ||
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Blizzkrieg
95 Posts
On November 20 2014 04:42 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I hope to god 12 starting workers is gone. 6 was fine, I like the first couple minutes of generally relaxed time. If they want to up it, make it 8-10. I agree 110%. Lowering the minerals per patch is fine... but leave the beginning of the game the same. It's just part of the triad of an RTS: acquire resources, construct a base, build units. 12 starting workers just seems to do too much of the work for us. Just seeing 12 workers automatically start mining at the beginning of the game would feel too cheap... like "well that easy". | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On November 22 2014 09:34 Foxxan wrote: Can people stop draw conclusions??? Blizzard are aware units are overlapping with each other. Things will change. Probably alot. Its better to talk about design of the units. What to add. How to make better interactions(I see like no ppl trying to imrpove the interactions). We're discussing design. Our conclusions are based on current design choices and noting that they should be changed, which is kind of the point of a constructive discussion. You'll note that on my comments regarding the cyclone, I indicated several alternative options for it that would make it functional and not overpowered, such as limiting it to anti-air attacks with it's kiting ability. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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TedCruz2016
Hong Kong271 Posts
On November 22 2014 09:29 Foxxan wrote: The game will be redesigned. Will be a new game in beta. Why do you draw conclusions like this? Protoss might have an easier access to blink. Getting it alot faster since it will not break any mu. Hell, stalkers might start with a weaker blink and then able to upgrade it to a better blink on the citadel. There is still forcefield involved. Zealots might get a redesign with faster speed. Wouldnt be surprised if the unit will perhaps move faster than a stalker in Lotv. Then it can catch cyclones... They might get a more fun micro-skill ability to to catch cyclones. Or atleast be used against cyclones when cooldown is off or if they get energy or something else. Hellions initself dont cut it, they are terrible throughout the entire game. Their only role is versus zerglings. And the interaction is usually boring with this unit. Cyclone can change this. Much better interactions, more fun ones. Kill static defence, attack armored units. Might open up mech in a whole different level. If we look at broodwar real fast, the vulture were terrible against armored units. Yet, it opened up a lot of play for mech. How about removing cyclone's anti-air targeting ability? Then either blink or phenix even oracles can deal with cyclones. On November 22 2014 09:29 Foxxan wrote:If we compare 2cyclones vs 2hellions. I see alot of times the hellions dont kill a single worker while the 2cyclones might. Protoss might need to go new opening completely vs terran. Warpgate might get chagned even further. Why cant 1fast robotic be standard? Immortals might get a new role, behave differently etc. Cyclone might get tweaked so it has less range when locked on. Lots of things will change, its kinda pointless drawing conclusions. Cyclone and hellion are totally incomparable regarding to the cost and build time. You need a tech lab to produce cyclone, which means it's on the same tech level of tank, so just imagine what your opponent may have had when you have two tanks. | ||
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Yiome
China1687 Posts
An idea I can get behind  can't wait for the beta | ||
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