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One suggestion that gets brought up a lot is getting rid of/revamping the Colossus while buffing Gateway units. Would that solve all of our problems, though? Would buffed Zealots on a 5 base economy be interesting to watch, or, for that matter, skill intensive to use? They're 1A now, they'll be 1A in LOTV, regardless of how much stronger they are... unless they become more responsive, get a new ability, something. Maybe buffed Stalkers + HT would be interesting enough?
Well the reality is besides positioning before the battle begins what kind of micro do you do with a colo? Once they have the range upgrade it just turns into a position war between viking position color position and stalker position....
I like the idea of changing Colo completely to a more microable unit as oppose to a 1A fest instant wipe out of all small units on ground.... I mean doens't have to have an ability but make it something that can't be 1A once in a good position to kill all ground army...
(if colo still had to exist)
Honestly, though the same can be said for both sides but if they change the colo role* and make it non-targetable with air i think they would be moving in the right direction....
(new thought)
My thought would be to buff the archon's range just a little bit, get rid of the colo keep the disruptor and add the reaver we would see some amazing things happen for both sides.. it wouldn't be a 1 A fest it would be an amazing dance of death around the whole map 
Edit: Just to add to that new thought, I think if they got rid of EMP with ghost and added the lockdown feature to create a counter to reavers and gave stalkers a counter passive to not be able to be locked down it would balance it all out.... it would be a seriously fun game to play and watch
*role is the wrong word let's say the way in which it fulfills that role.
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On November 22 2014 00:14 Pirfiktshon wrote:Show nested quote +One suggestion that gets brought up a lot is getting rid of/revamping the Colossus while buffing Gateway units. Would that solve all of our problems, though? Would buffed Zealots on a 5 base economy be interesting to watch, or, for that matter, skill intensive to use? They're 1A now, they'll be 1A in LOTV, regardless of how much stronger they are... unless they become more responsive, get a new ability, something. Maybe buffed Stalkers + HT would be interesting enough? Edit: Just to add to that new thought, I think if they got rid of EMP with ghost and added the lockdown feature to create a counter to reavers and gave stalkers a counter passive to not be able to be locked down it would balance it all out.... it would be a seriously fun game to play and watch *role is the wrong word let's say the way in which it fulfills that role.
If lockdown is given back to ghost, it would be a real deathball disassembler and getting rid of colossus won't be necessary. Just use it on colossi right before a battle engagement and take care of the stalkers and zealots with traditional MMM bioball.
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On November 21 2014 23:46 pure.Wasted wrote:
There's a lot of talk about Protoss mobility issues over in the Designated Balance Discussion Thread. LOTV is changing up how many expansions players need to keep track of, but as of right now it's not giving Protoss many (any?) new options for playing a harass-intensive 5 base vs 5 base style game, which is like... a crazy huge deal.
Oracles, DT, Phoenix and warp in are already making harass styles for protoss strong throughout the various stages of the game, a buffed warp prism adds to that too. Planetary's are the only really hammer in that cog as they shut down most of the options there. It's alternatives to the deathball blob that really need focus.
On November 21 2014 23:46 pure.Wasted wrote:
One suggestion that gets brought up a lot is getting rid of/revamping the Colossus while buffing Gateway units. Would that solve all of our problems, though? Would buffed Zealots on a 5 base economy be interesting to watch, or, for that matter, skill intensive to use? They're 1A now, they'll be 1A in LOTV, regardless of how much stronger they are... unless they become more responsive, get a new ability, something. Maybe buffed Stalkers + HT would be interesting enough?
I think everyone reasonable wants to see the collosus go. It's far too much power in one place. The danger with straight up gateway buffs is proxy cheese gets stronger, and its already damn strong. And as you say chargelots are brutal dull and easy to use. The answer for gate units is obviously to make upgrades more of a factor, but there's been a firesale on upgrades since the WoL release.
But it'd be nice to see more micro all around. I don't think you can have great effects on that without looking at the movement model some. Currently A-moved units aren't that far off optimal engagement efficiency in most situations. They surround, form concaves fairly optimally all by themselves. Most micro focusing on splitting against daft AOE doesn't seem optimal to me. Maybe charge would be better if it was a tad stronger and wasn't autocast.
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I would be happy if they removed the medivac speedboost again.
It makes good scouting for drops almost obsolete (obervers, overlords, etc), and did strengthen doom drops in every matchup (which is imo stupid)
Tbh i never was a fan of the medivac in the first place (why mobility + heal on one unit? Same for mutas kinda), but cause that obviously won't be changed i would be ok with the removal of the speed boost :D
Other than that? Maybe give chargelots the ability to use charge on the ground so you can use it for mobility (or just increase their movement speed with the upgrade)
Make the colossus better when your army is split up and worse when you play it in a deathball.
I think that would be good enough.
Are there really people out there who still think it is amazing gameplay when the terran splits his units in 3*3 medivac drops and destroys one nexus after another? I actually got bored of that really fast :/
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If lockdown is given back to ghost, it would be a real deathball disassembler and getting rid of colossus won't be necessary. Just use it on colossi right before a battle engagement and take care of the stalkers and zealots with traditional MMM bioball
Well the thought is not to just get rid of deathball but to get rid of A move units... There would be a lot of dancing with marines / ghosts / archons zlots etc... more micro would be needed to fight on both sides that would be more apparent than it is now.... Problem is with your theory as wlel is the range of colo would far exceed taht of a ghost which still presents the same issue what micro are you going ot do with a colo other than stepping back for a second while your stalkers / zlots own the ghost trying to lockdown your colo just to 1A right after and auto-win... Which brings back to my original point the game would still be about deathball positioning and 1 A ... trying to avoid that
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I would be happy if they removed the medivac speedboost again.
It makes good scouting for drops almost obsolete (obervers, overlords, etc), and did strengthen doom drops in every matchup (which is imo stupid)
Tbh i never was a fan of the medivac in the first place (why mobility + heal on one unit? Same for mutas kinda), but cause that obviously won't be changed i would be ok with the removal of the speed boost :D
Other than that? Maybe give chargelots the ability to use charge on the ground so you can use it for mobility (or just increase their movement speed with the upgrade)
Make the colossus better when your army is split up and worse when you play it in a deathball.
I think that would be good enough.
Are there really people out there who still think it is amazing gameplay when the terran splits his units in 3*3 medivac drops and destroys one nexus after another? I actually got bored of that really fast :/
+1 this. I really do miss the meds in BW.... I think they should be an academy unit though I will say medics back then could be abused to block melee.
Though I will say taking into consideration that medivacs have to make a choice of positioning or healing in the heat of battle if you plan on making an escape that is...
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On November 21 2014 18:18 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 18:15 Cascade wrote:On November 21 2014 18:00 Ketch wrote:
Disruptor can be good vs mech terran to break up siege lines.. assuming mech v P is possible in LOTV... like storm could do in BW An interesting question is how invincible units (immortal, disruptor) work in terms of attack priority. I assume the units keep shooting at the invincible units until the effect wears off? It does promote micro, but I wouldn't call that a very visible kind of micro. The built in "invincible" tag of the editor stops units from attacking the invincible unit.
the Immortal shield absorbs a specific amount of damage. thats where the micro idea comes from, activate shield on front units, then walk back when shield is depleted/timed out and activate shields on second row...
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On November 22 2014 00:52 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I would be happy if they removed the medivac speedboost again.
It makes good scouting for drops almost obsolete (obervers, overlords, etc), and did strengthen doom drops in every matchup (which is imo stupid)
Tbh i never was a fan of the medivac in the first place (why mobility + heal on one unit? Same for mutas kinda), but cause that obviously won't be changed i would be ok with the removal of the speed boost :D
Other than that? Maybe give chargelots the ability to use charge on the ground so you can use it for mobility (or just increase their movement speed with the upgrade)
Make the colossus better when your army is split up and worse when you play it in a deathball.
I think that would be good enough.
Are there really people out there who still think it is amazing gameplay when the terran splits his units in 3*3 medivac drops and destroys one nexus after another? I actually got bored of that really fast :/
It's very likely to be replaced with tank drops as it only takes half the supplies of MM drops (5 vs 10 per medivac).
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Bisutopia19256 Posts
On November 21 2014 23:46 pure.Wasted wrote:
There's a lot of talk about Protoss mobility issues over in the Designated Balance Discussion Thread. LOTV is changing up how many expansions players need to keep track of, but as of right now it's not giving Protoss many (any?) new options for playing a harass-intensive 5 base vs 5 base style game, which is like... a crazy huge deal.
If Bbyong's games vs PartinG and Zest on King Sejong are a precursor of what happens to Protoss in LOTV, I don't want the inevitable solution to be "make Terran not be able to do that," because "that" in this case is "showing off godly multitasking." I want the solution to be "make the Protoss be able to respond in kind." I would hope that most posters here agree.
So what should Blizzard do? I'm throwing this out there because right now they haven't done or said anything on the subject, and while that doesn't mean they don't have ideas, it also doesn't mean they do have ideas.
One suggestion that gets brought up a lot is getting rid of/revamping the Colossus while buffing Gateway units. Would that solve all of our problems, though? Would buffed Zealots on a 5 base economy be interesting to watch, or, for that matter, skill intensive to use? They're 1A now, they'll be 1A in LOTV, regardless of how much stronger they are... unless they become more responsive, get a new ability, something. Maybe buffed Stalkers + HT would be interesting enough?
Is anyone thinking about this? Does anyone have ideas?
I think zealot leg enhancements should be added. I know charge adds some speed, but not a significant amount. Also, if warping is to continue to be a highlight of protoss. Maybe units can warp between upgraded pylons. (Not an instant warp, but still something).
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I think zealot leg enhancements should be added. I know charge adds some speed, but not a significant amount. Also, if warping is to continue to be a highlight of protoss. Maybe units can warp between upgraded pylons. (Not an instant warp, but still something).
Leg enhancements with the removal of charge yes.... if you do both we would have to change the name from chargelots to deathinvincalots LOL
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I never thought I would say this, but I agree with Blizzard's approach to the colossus: a slight nerf to make it less ubiquitous and prevent situations like these because massing them will no longer be viable. You can remove the unit or redesign it, but both of those are troublesome.
Also, while zealots hardly need any micro, they do facilitate micro from other players (kiting) and they make army control more difficult for protoss in late-game. They are quite powerful meat shields that keep your opponent occupied while your other units do more interesting stuff. There are some things you could do with the unit to improve it (maybe) but I'm sure it's not essential to improving the game as a whole.
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On November 22 2014 00:58 Freeborn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2014 18:18 Big J wrote:On November 21 2014 18:15 Cascade wrote:On November 21 2014 18:00 Ketch wrote:
Disruptor can be good vs mech terran to break up siege lines.. assuming mech v P is possible in LOTV... like storm could do in BW An interesting question is how invincible units (immortal, disruptor) work in terms of attack priority. I assume the units keep shooting at the invincible units until the effect wears off? It does promote micro, but I wouldn't call that a very visible kind of micro. The built in "invincible" tag of the editor stops units from attacking the invincible unit. the Immortal shield absorbs a specific amount of damage. thats where the micro idea comes from, activate shield on front units, then walk back when shield is depleted/timed out and activate shields on second row...
Obviously the hardened shield change, combined with the distant prism pickup, is a new strategy that DKim wants to promote - drop the immortals, activate the shield to absorb damage, and pick them up during the cooldown.
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Isn't stasis ward pretty good?
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On November 22 2014 01:53 mishimaBeef wrote:
Isn't stasis ward pretty good?
The 30-second duration is ridiculous.
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The 30-second duration hasn't been balanced.
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I think it's more of a defensive skill against medivac drops.
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I'd like the disruptor a lot more if it had a detonate command similar to banelings. As it is right now, it seems way too easy to dodge and pretty weak. If this unit costs 200-300 gas (equivalent to 8-12 banelings) shouldn't it at least have some semireliable damage like banelings?
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On November 22 2014 02:12 BaronVonOwn wrote:
I'd like the disruptor a lot more if it had a detonate command similar to banelings. As it is right now, it seems way too easy to dodge and pretty weak. If this unit costs 200-300 gas (equivalent to 8-12 banelings) shouldn't it at least have some semireliable damage like banelings?
If it was killable during charging and you could only use it once, then yes it should. As it is not, no it should not.
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P has already had great AoEs. There's really no need for another.
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On November 22 2014 02:31 TedCruz2016 wrote:
P has already had great AoEs. There's really no need for another.
A lot of people hate the colossus and want it replaced.
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EPT
