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Legacy of the Void Announced - Page 25

Forum Index > SC2 General
2977 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 23 24 25 26 27 149 Next
CeliosB
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada100 Posts
November 07 2014 21:21 GMT
#481
BC, nydus and maybe swarmhost changes are kind of crazy buy everything else sounds awesome
"To ze bank" -Stephano
Squat
Profile Joined September 2013
Sweden7978 Posts
November 07 2014 21:21 GMT
#482
On November 08 2014 06:18 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
I mean, if you think about it a bit philosophically here, there is no reason to say that 12 workers will destroy aggressive play etc. In my opinion, the game should strive to become as "beautifully complicated" as possible with the best gameplay, allowing the best players to win.


No the reason is quite obvious. Let's assume you play protoss, and right now you may be able to invest into a warp prism or an oracle to harass, while staying on 2 bases for a while.
Now imagine if you had to take a 3rd base like 3-4 minutes earlier than you normally do. Your focus here is gonna be on making units that allows you to take that base fast. If you invest into lots of infastructure/harass units, you are gonna die to a straight up timing attack if you take a quick 3rd.

I don't think this new economy will stay in the game for very long and I almost expect that this was just a last-minute change they added in to satisfy the competitive community. But very early on, people will realize the consequences this has on gameplay, and it will be reverted.

Zerg and terran will have to invest in the extra bases and defenses too. It will make bad players die to timing pushes if they just try to take three bases and then get everything, like what we have right now. Which is great. it will force players out on the map and force them to be vulnerable.
"Digital. They have digital. What is digital?" - Donald J Trump
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24202 Posts
November 07 2014 21:21 GMT
#483
On November 08 2014 06:20 Circumstance wrote:
Well, people asked for radical choices and major revamps. You got it, folks.


Who is "people" ? Some of us would have been pretty fine with changing what was not working and not adding too much. They're changing everything and I'm not sure they'll be able to balance their ambitions any time soon.
BallinWitStalin
Profile Joined July 2008
1177 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-07 21:22:07
November 07 2014 21:21 GMT
#484
Damn, Lurkers are back!

Now we just need reavers and I'll be 100% in!
I await the reminiscent nerd chills I will get when I hear a Korean broadcaster yell "WEEAAAAVVVVVUUUHHH" while watching Dota
xevis
Profile Joined September 2010
United States218 Posts
November 07 2014 21:21 GMT
#485
Terran, here I come!
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?
VGhost
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3613 Posts
November 07 2014 21:22 GMT
#486
Nifty! First impressions:

Thoughts - 12 workers to start? Maybe useful, but early game dynamics just changed a TON. Rushing just got a lot harder, too...

Terran: love the cyclone. The tank thing is dumb - it simplifies micro instead of encouraging it. The Battlecruiser warp mechanic is interesting but ought to be either range-limited or have an associated cool-down.

Protoss: like most of the changes. Not sure about warp prism's range. Like the carrier change but I assume there's a timer on "abandoned" interceptors, right?

Zerg: LURKERS! Like that they're a functional seige unit, too. Don't like the Nydus worm "invulnerability" thing.

In general, the MASSIVE DAMAGE and INVULNERABLE DURING [X TIME] emphases in the changes I really don't like.
#4427 || I am not going to scan a ferret.
Circumstance
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States11403 Posts
November 07 2014 21:22 GMT
#487
I REALLY hope Cyclones will make TvT less dependent on the Tank.
The world is better when every background has a chance.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24202 Posts
November 07 2014 21:23 GMT
#488
On November 08 2014 06:22 VGhost wrote:
In general, the MASSIVE DAMAGE and INVULNERABLE DURING [X TIME] emphases in the changes I really don't like.


Same. Notice the cyclone actually seems to deal quite big amounts of damage to ground, and I wish it was more ground harass / air defense specialized.
Kuchikikun
Profile Joined March 2013
Italy560 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-07 21:24:20
November 07 2014 21:24 GMT
#489
If the photon overcharge change is confirmed mutas are going to a bigger problem in PvZ
Circumstance
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States11403 Posts
November 07 2014 21:24 GMT
#490
Tempests being anti-ground only is an interesting choice. They'll have a lot less use in PvZ now.
The world is better when every background has a chance.
papaz
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden4149 Posts
November 07 2014 21:25 GMT
#491
Perfect changes, love everything. Terran <3.

Thanks Blizzard!
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-07 21:26:56
November 07 2014 21:26 GMT
#492
On November 08 2014 06:24 Circumstance wrote:
Tempests being anti-ground only is an interesting choice. They'll have a lot less use in PvZ now.

As demonstrated in the video, their main attack only hits ground, but their ability hits air units and is good vs Brood Lords. The ability does 500 damage over 50 seconds.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24202 Posts
November 07 2014 21:26 GMT
#493
I'll harp on why I don't like the massive damage thing. If you ambition to make a game with a lot of action, needing a lot of multitask and APM, fine, but even the greatest will do mistakes sometimes. That's why mistakes should not be punished extremely hard. For instance I hate that an unnoticed disruptor could kill a full worker line. If you aim at that kind of game, the huge damage dealers should be very carefully crafted.
ssxsilver
Profile Joined June 2007
United States4409 Posts
November 07 2014 21:26 GMT
#494
Love the zerg morph changes. Of course the numbers will need tweaking, but conceptually it's cool. Curious to see how the new swarm hosts and corruptors will pan out.

All in all, the very fact that they're looking to make these radical changes is a great thing.
Empirimancer
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada1024 Posts
November 07 2014 21:26 GMT
#495
So... no one else dislikes the concept of a Terran melee unit?
StatixEx
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United Kingdom779 Posts
November 07 2014 21:27 GMT
#496
this all single player or mp? or does it say i just missed it . . .looking now but im still going to post!
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9378 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-07 21:29:30
November 07 2014 21:27 GMT
#497
On November 08 2014 06:20 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2014 06:18 Hider wrote:
I mean, if you think about it a bit philosophically here, there is no reason to say that 12 workers will destroy aggressive play etc. In my opinion, the game should strive to become as "beautifully complicated" as possible with the best gameplay, allowing the best players to win.


No the reason is quite obvious. Let's assume you play protoss, and right now you may be able to invest into a warp prism or an oracle to harass, while staying on 2 bases for a while.
Now imagine if you had to take a 3rd base like 3-4 minutes earlier than you normally do. Your focus here is gonna be on making units that allows you to take that base fast. If you invest into lots of infastructure/harass units, you are gonna die to a straight up timing attack if you take a quick 3rd.

I don't think this new economy will stay in the game for very long and I almost expect that this was just a last-minute change they added in to satisfy the competitive community. But very early on, people will realize the consequences this has on gameplay, and it will be reverted.


What worries me the most is how painful it can be for P to hold on 4+ bases. If those bases are needed to compete economically... Let's just 2-3 base all-in every game and get more hatred than we already do (though I'm not sure it's possible).


Yeh, it will obviously also require huge changes to toss. What makes it obvious to me that the econ-change was a last-minute thing was the 8-second warp time as well. To me that change implies that blizzard wants harass vs toss to be even stronger, which already was buffed with the econ change. If both of these two changes stay - they won't, but w/e - then toss gateway units needs a big compensation/redesign. If they really were going for these big redesign, then they would likely also have put it into the video.

Also for a while in Starbow, we did try to balance the game around this low-saturation econ, but it's just an absolute mess when the defenders advantage is this small.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24202 Posts
November 07 2014 21:27 GMT
#498
On November 08 2014 06:26 Empirimancer wrote:
So... no one else dislikes the concept of a Terran melee unit?


I like this unit actually, seems a cool concept. Hate the Cyclone though.
KobraKay
Profile Joined March 2010
Portugal4231 Posts
November 07 2014 21:28 GMT
#499
On November 08 2014 06:18 sashkata wrote:
I am very happy the Immortal is losing it's harden shield.


Im not...it was one of the coolest things from the 2007 SC2 presentation :S T:T
CJ Fighting! (--.--)
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
November 07 2014 21:29 GMT
#500
There is one KEY KEY KEY thing to remember.

They are changing bases, and that means that maps MUST be designed to work with the new base mechanics, as well as the new units.
The main problems will come if the maps aren't iterated quickly enough to work with the new play ideas. Maps are crazy important in SC2 (and in SCBW). Units make the game work. Maps make the game work WELL.

Hopefully Blizzard will just spam out like 12 different maps with 6 different map ideas (e.g. layout, bases, spawn positions etc) at 2 maps per map idea, and then people can play and work out what works well and what doesn't work well.
The maps and iterating the maps will be important when they have made so many changes and hopefully they won't make too many unit changes just because there are problems with certain map types that might just not work.
HOLY CHECK!
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