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Blizzard announces 2015 WCS changes - Page 20

Forum Index > SC2 General
617 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 18 19 20 21 22 31 Next All
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18510 Posts
November 01 2014 11:43 GMT
#381
No one said language is a prerequisite for a working visa.

The question arose as to how forgg lost his working visa. He lost it because requirement for extension was language courses
vitka
Profile Joined November 2014
6 Posts
November 01 2014 11:44 GMT
#382
On November 01 2014 20:43 sharkie wrote:
No one said language is a prerequisite for a working visa.

The question arose as to how forgg lost his working visa. He lost it because requirement for extension was language courses



it was said that all those guys in germany (mc, yoda, ...) have to go back.
SatedSC2
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
England3012 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-01 11:50:30
November 01 2014 11:46 GMT
#383
--- Nuked ---
ANLProbe
Profile Joined October 2013
667 Posts
November 01 2014 11:46 GMT
#384
On November 01 2014 20:39 ANLProbe wrote:
Can I get something straight? Is Korea having 3 GSLs, 3 SPOTV leagues as well as 3 KeSPA cups? Because some people seem to think that the KeSPA cup is the new SPOTV league so I'm not sure. Can someone update me on this.

Also, since GSL ro8-finals will be getting a venue on a weekend. Does that mean that players won't be getting a week to prepare for each opponent?

Go TAEJA
Gr33d
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany423 Posts
November 01 2014 11:49 GMT
#385
Looks like TB is still salty when it comes to TaKe's events. They give out a big enough prize pool, meet the other requirements AND a lot of people watch them, ofc they should also give WCS points then.
Fanatics find their heaven in never ending storming wind || Auguries of destruction be a lullaby for rebirth
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
November 01 2014 11:49 GMT
#386
On November 01 2014 20:46 ANLProbe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2014 20:39 ANLProbe wrote:
Can I get something straight? Is Korea having 3 GSLs, 3 SPOTV leagues as well as 3 KeSPA cups? Because some people seem to think that the KeSPA cup is the new SPOTV league so I'm not sure. Can someone update me on this.

Also, since GSL ro8-finals will be getting a venue on a weekend. Does that mean that players won't be getting a week to prepare for each opponent?


I think it just comes on top.
Administrator
TheOneAboveU
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany3367 Posts
November 01 2014 11:51 GMT
#387
On November 01 2014 20:49 Gr33d wrote:
Looks like TB is still salty when it comes to TaKe's events. They give out a big enough prize pool, meet the other requirements AND a lot of people watch them, ofc they should also give WCS points then.

It has nothing to do with saltiness, he is absolutely right - a tournament that is heavily based on invites bascially gives out WCS points for free. Points should be earned through skill (-> qualifiers) and not based on popularity.
Moderatoralias TripleM | @TL_TripleM | Big Dark Energy!
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-01 12:00:53
November 01 2014 11:57 GMT
#388
Qualifiers mean you have to pay more trips, or you deal with people who qualify not showing up. If you do 50% qualifiers tournaments will basically go broke on paying trips (for names that are less interesting), or you will see constant dropouts. Neither is something the scene will handle very well. It could seriously force tournaments out of SC2. You have to make the best out of what you have and I think that SC2 tournaments are doing just that. Idealistically I agree that more qualifiers would be nice. Realistically I don't.
Administrator
vitka
Profile Joined November 2014
6 Posts
November 01 2014 11:57 GMT
#389
On November 01 2014 20:41 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2014 20:40 vitka wrote:
On November 01 2014 20:36 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
On November 01 2014 20:29 vitka wrote:
I´m sorry guys, but who came up with the fact that you need to know the language to get working-visa? This is totally wrong! I can only speak for germany, but the best example: my flatmate is from south korea, doesnt speak a work, got his working visa even before arriving here! i know plenty of people coming outside from EU, who got working visa without problems, without knowing german.

I also checked the embassy and foreign office: not a single note that you need to speak german. especially for koreans it is quite easy to come to europe, as they are some kind of partners.

the only thing you need: working contract. as we talking about professional players, they probably already have working contract with their sponsors/teams/whatever, if not, do it.

Of course you don't need to speak the language to get a working visa. People need to stop talking out of their ass.

However you are talking out of your ass too. You don't just need a working contract for a working visa you need a working contract with extreme requirements. For example in the Netherlands this is €38465 for people under 30 and €52462 for over 30. The reason why they can't get legitimate working visas is because those visas are only given out with extreme salary requirements and sports visas are probably out of reach for SC2.

Imagine if you could get a working visa for a $1500 contract can you imagine the insane amount of immigrants Europe would have to deal with?


My korean flatmate earned 1500€/month, startup architect company in Berlin. Other friends got working visa with their jobs in a cafe...

He should be very afraid. In all seriousness I obviously can't speak for your roommate but if I were to guess there are details to his situations that you are unaware of.


ah, he hasnt to be afraid. paying 300€ for room you have a lot of money left to enjoy berlin. as i said, i know some other guys who have similar conditions. i just brought him up because he is south korean, i could bring up turkish or australian people as well. i also dont know if there are differences between the countries inside europe. i just guess, that if you can show a contract and proof that you can live with that money, it shouldnt be a problem to get working visa.
thing could(!) be that they are all graduated.
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4137 Posts
November 01 2014 11:57 GMT
#390
On November 01 2014 20:51 TheOneAboveU wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2014 20:49 Gr33d wrote:
Looks like TB is still salty when it comes to TaKe's events. They give out a big enough prize pool, meet the other requirements AND a lot of people watch them, ofc they should also give WCS points then.

It has nothing to do with saltiness, he is absolutely right - a tournament that is heavily based on invites bascially gives out WCS points for free. Points should be earned through skill (-> qualifiers) and not based on popularity.

HSC X doesnt have wcs points, thats why mass invites.
And by that logic, IEM and some more have to change aswell.
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
REyeM
Profile Joined August 2014
2674 Posts
November 01 2014 12:04 GMT
#391
On November 01 2014 10:25 Boucot wrote:
Another scary thought : HOW WILL WE CALL WCS AM/EU ? WCS EUROPERICA ?


WCS Internationals, WCS Worlds, WCS Foreign land, maybe just WCS
S4 Arrows, never forget. RIP Woongjin Stars.
TheOneAboveU
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany3367 Posts
November 01 2014 12:04 GMT
#392
On November 01 2014 20:57 Dingodile wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2014 20:51 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On November 01 2014 20:49 Gr33d wrote:
Looks like TB is still salty when it comes to TaKe's events. They give out a big enough prize pool, meet the other requirements AND a lot of people watch them, ofc they should also give WCS points then.

It has nothing to do with saltiness, he is absolutely right - a tournament that is heavily based on invites bascially gives out WCS points for free. Points should be earned through skill (-> qualifiers) and not based on popularity.

HSC X doesnt have wcs points, thats why mass invites.
And by that logic, IEM and some more have to change aswell.

Well, HSC X is in off-season, but others gave out points as far as I remember, and they had the same system.
And yes, I agree with you: The invites in IEM and other stuff is not really "fair" as well in regards to WCS points.
But of course I also see why invites are needed - Nazgul has a good point economically -, also invites bring a lot of viewers because of popular players' fanbases.
If we talk about the overall fairness of an ideal system though, then the more invites the better. That an ideal system will always just stay that - an ideal - is of course true.^^
Moderatoralias TripleM | @TL_TripleM | Big Dark Energy!
KatatoniK
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United Kingdom978 Posts
November 01 2014 12:11 GMT
#393
Well looks like I'm just watching Korea in 2015. Watching NA and EU battle in out in mediocre fashion only for Snute/VortiX/Scarlett/MajOr to face Polt/viOlet in the final.

Just when EU was developing nicely thanks to the Koreans.

I really worry for State though, he wanted to go for WCS this season while staying in Korea. Without a team he isn't going to be able to fund flights from KR - NA
Flying on the Jin Air hype plane. Lets go Maru, Rogue, sOs and the handsome CJ herO
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24234 Posts
November 01 2014 12:12 GMT
#394
I like this. I don't think there were enough great players in AM/EU to make two exciting leagues. Plus I really hope this is an incentive for the foreigners who actually wish to compete with Koreans to make stays in Korea sometimes in the year and play in the Korean leagues. I endorse this decision completely.
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
November 01 2014 12:12 GMT
#395
On November 01 2014 21:04 REyeM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2014 10:25 Boucot wrote:
Another scary thought : HOW WILL WE CALL WCS AM/EU ? WCS EUROPERICA ?


WCS Internationals, WCS Worlds, WCS Foreign land, maybe just WCS

WCS Europe
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
SinCitta
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany2127 Posts
November 01 2014 12:12 GMT
#396
On November 01 2014 19:59 OtherWorld wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2014 19:15 HsDLTitich wrote:
On November 01 2014 18:51 OtherWorld wrote:
On November 01 2014 18:45 Makro wrote:
that suck for forgg, i just checked and indeed it's really hard to get a working visa

It is, but if he had one he met the requirements. Why did he switch/was forced to switch to a working holidays visa?


His working visa expired and then he only managed to get a working holyday visa.

His girlfriend explained that on reddit: 1 2 3

Ah yeah that makes sense. Too bad for him though, it's a shame that this was not announced way earlier

Edit : @SinCitta : How is giving WCS points to non-WCS events that are either 100% qualifiers (IEM) or open to anyone (DH) a broken system? I mean sure it's not perfect, but at least it makes sense to give points as long as anyone who has the skill can enter the tournament and win it. I love HSC and I watch the hell out of it, but giving WCS points to a tournament with 8 theorical qualified players (remember that last HSC two qualified players were replaced by two invites) on 32 players is not right.


  • We don't know what the design goals of the point system is. Is it designed to get the best players or do they want regional representation? Only when the design goals are clear, we can truly or objectively criticize the system.
  • It's biased towards players with access to a bigger travel budget
  • IEM is not 100% qualifiers. There are some hand picked players "based on recents performances". The season before they chose those players from the WCS points ladder. It is not clearly transparent how that process works and it's a "rich get richer" system.
  • Unpredictability. Events are announced as the season is running and quite often at the end of the season. Players cannot know how much points they need and which events they need to attend.
  • Distribution of points within an event do not look like they are backed by an appropriate mathematical formula. The numbers just "look good". That kind of works with prize money because that little top-heavyness might make the victory a little bit sweeter, but it runs against some fairness principles that a point system might try to accomplish.
  • Geographical distribution of events obviously gives some players better chances than others.
  • Total WCS points pool for an event is not a very good estimator of the total participating players' skill.
  • Most of the above problems can be avoided under the managable system of the WCS. Some biases still persist, especially among regions, but at least they would be open (and thus subject to criticize and adjust). These problems cannot be realistically solved when giving points to WCS-sanctioned events.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16097 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-01 12:14:25
November 01 2014 12:13 GMT
#397
If you're going to region lock it, this is how it needs to be done.

Korea vs the Rest of the World. Keeping WCS NA as it is in its current state without the Koreans playing in it just seems like a complete waste of prize money.

I'm now actually excited to watch both regions, the addition of more games in Korea makes me very happy.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
BaneRiders
Profile Joined August 2013
Sweden3630 Posts
November 01 2014 12:15 GMT
#398
On November 01 2014 21:04 REyeM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2014 10:25 Boucot wrote:
Another scary thought : HOW WILL WE CALL WCS AM/EU ? WCS EUROPERICA ?


WCS Internationals, WCS Worlds, WCS Foreign land, maybe just WCS



WCS Eurotica
Earth, Water, Air and Protoss!
BaneRiders
Profile Joined August 2013
Sweden3630 Posts
November 01 2014 12:17 GMT
#399
Say, if EU/AM teams would actually employ KR players for real (even time limited contracts), would they still not get a visa? Compare with soccer, ice hockey or any other meat sport?
Earth, Water, Air and Protoss!
REyeM
Profile Joined August 2014
2674 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-01 12:21:09
November 01 2014 12:17 GMT
#400
On November 01 2014 21:12 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2014 21:04 REyeM wrote:
On November 01 2014 10:25 Boucot wrote:
Another scary thought : HOW WILL WE CALL WCS AM/EU ? WCS EUROPERICA ?


WCS Internationals, WCS Worlds, WCS Foreign land, maybe just WCS

WCS Europe


WCS Europe and Polt

On November 01 2014 20:39 ANLProbe wrote:
Can I get something straight? Is Korea having 3 GSLs, 3 SPOTV leagues as well as 3 KeSPA cups? Because some people seem to think that the KeSPA cup is the new SPOTV league so I'm not sure. Can someone update me on this.

Also, since GSL ro8-finals will be getting a venue on a weekend. Does that mean that players won't be getting a week to prepare for each opponent?


Also ANLProbe, where did you read that GSL Ro8 - Finals will be getting a venue on a weekend. That would really sucks, they need to give players some time to prepare for those important matches..
S4 Arrows, never forget. RIP Woongjin Stars.
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