EPTTop 50 streamers in September 2014 - Page 4
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Yorkie
United States12612 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On October 02 2014 00:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: do you realize how unrealistic it is to make +- 100k $ a year out of 3k viewers? Not unrealistic at all.. a lot of the big name streamers on twitch only get around 3k viewers and they have that many or more subscribers + donations. It's pretty sick actually... | ||
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Acid916
United States24 Posts
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
MLG did 1 event and the rest of the viewership is on twitch D: | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44337 Posts
On October 02 2014 00:09 Nirel wrote: The views seem to have stabilized for the last 6 months which is good I think, and lol at Stephano being #1 even so deep into retirement. That's only because of novelty; he streamed fewer than ten hours this month. I can't consider the first table to be a good ranking system of anything particularly useful; I think the second is much more telling. Also, I want to throw in with the Winter defense. Non-stop commentary, Random at a high level, engagement with his viewers and chat, and his stream is formatted so that even the banners and donation lists are interesting and flashy. One can't really quantify exactly how many additional viewers or dollars that each visual or audial benefit should accrue, but I find myself watching his stream if my favorite pro-gamers aren't streaming, because Winter and his stream are just... engaging. Whatever he's doing, he's certainly doing it right. Also, he totally looks like Bo Burnham. | ||
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Rocket-Bear
3070 Posts
On October 02 2014 01:51 iNcontroL wrote: Not unrealistic at all.. a lot of the big name streamers on twitch only get around 3k viewers and they have that many or more subscribers + donations. It's pretty sick actually... How big are the "big name streamers" we are talking about? Since "big" is subjective I just want to know what your perspective on "Big" is. Because the ones I think of, like: Arteezy, SingSing, Dendi, Sodapoppin, Kripparrian + a huge number of popular LoL streamers from Fnatic/Dignitas/TSM are all easily averaging 8k. Most of the time they are way above 10k (apart from Sodapoppin maybe. But that guy has so many subs he has to be mentioned I think. There are some big names like Siglemic who isn't getting as many viewers anymore because the interest for speedrunning has died down a lot since it's pretty repetative. Mind giving some examples of steamers you consider big that sit around 3k viewers? Hope this doesn't come off as condescending, Only interested to hear your opinion since we obviously share a pretty different view on what a "big name streamer" is. | ||
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Cheren
United States2911 Posts
On October 02 2014 02:11 Rocket-Bear wrote: How big are the "big name streamers" we are talking about? Since "big" is subjective I just want to know what your perspective on "Big" is. Because the ones I think of, like: Arteezy, SingSing, Dendi, Sodapoppin, Kripparrian + a huge number of popular LoL streamers from Fnatic/Dignitas/TSM are all easily averaging 8k. Most of the time they are way above 10k (apart from Sodapoppin maybe. But that guy has so many subs he has to be mentioned I think. There are some big names like Siglemic who isn't getting as many viewers anymore because the interest for speedrunning has died down a lot since it's pretty repetative. Mind giving some examples of steamers you consider big that sit around 3k viewers? Hope this doesn't come off as condescending, Only interested to hear your opinion since we obviously share a pretty different view on what a "big name streamer" is. DansGaming and Towelliee are the two most obvious examples. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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FreDMouL
France59 Posts
Didn't know we can't ask about it... | ||
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
On October 02 2014 02:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: That's only because of novelty; he streamed fewer than ten hours this month. I can't consider the first table to be a good ranking system of anything particularly useful; I think the second is much more telling. Also, I want to throw in with the Winter defense. Non-stop commentary, Random at a high level, engagement with his viewers and chat, and his stream is formatted so that even the banners and donation lists are interesting and flashy. One can't really quantify exactly how many additional viewers or dollars that each visual or audial benefit should accrue, but I find myself watching his stream if my favorite pro-gamers aren't streaming, because Winter and his stream are just... engaging. Whatever he's doing, he's certainly doing it right. Also, he totally looks like Bo Burnham. He plays Random at a low-mid master level, right? Other than that he plays Gold players as Protoss (or seems to, the few times I've tuned in). His stream layout is actually quite obnoxious. So many random words everywhere. A good example of a nice stream layout would be ROOT/Liquid/EG streams. I suppose I understand why people watch him, but his viewers must be either younger and/or ranked below Diamond. His judgment calls on battles or what the opponent is doing seems to be far off (when he's playing Master players) quite often. Now I can't unsee Bo Burnham, but that will make it more enjoyable for me when/if I see him at HomeStory. xD Imagine if Bo Burnham actually played/did commentary on SC2. | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
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Uyo
35 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On October 02 2014 02:49 Mistakes wrote: He plays Random at a low-mid master level, right? Other than that he plays Gold players as Protoss (or seems to, the few times I've tuned in). His stream layout is actually quite obnoxious. So many random words everywhere. A good example of a nice stream layout would be ROOT/Liquid/EG streams. I suppose I understand why people watch him, but his viewers must be either younger and/or ranked below Diamond. His judgment calls on battles or what the opponent is doing seems to be far off (when he's playing Master players) quite often. Now I can't unsee Bo Burnham, but that will make it more enjoyable for me when/if I see him at HomeStory. xD Imagine if Bo Burnham actually played/did commentary on SC2. You have to understand that his stream is quite diverse. - He plays vs master lvl - he plays "educational" bronze to masters - He plays trollgames bronze to masters - he has a tournament going on once a week - he does subscriber games He just does a lot of different stuff, all while being active with his chat and even more important: Pretty much every single day at the same timeslots. He studies marketing afaik, you can see how that would help i guess. His mods are really strict, you won't see spam/trolls or anything there for the most part. Link me to a sc2 streamer who does all that while also being that "talkative" , i don't think there is one and that might be the reason he has this much success atm. It really isn't rocket science to "understand" it imo, even though people keep repeating that phrase, i actually "don't understand" how you can't understand it  (except you are being elitist and think the majority of people are in GM and want to see someone playing with over 9000 apm) | ||
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Yaqoob
Canada3326 Posts
On October 02 2014 02:51 ThomasjServo wrote: Jesus, I wish I had as much time as Winter does to stream. I assume that this is his job now. Gets income from this and goes to school also. I give props to anyone who can successfully make streaming into a steady income source. I would love to make even 4k a month from playing Starcraft lol | ||
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Torrefy
41 Posts
I've seen numerous times recently where he has 600-800 viewers, or even a little less, especially when there have been some of these new koreans and other popular players streaming. So... what? He just forgot to turn his viewbots on those days? That makes a lot of sense. Or maybe he did have his bots on but he actually had 0 viewers because they were watching the other streams? Even if that were somehow the case that still means he's getting 2000+ viewers often. Stupid discussion. | ||
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The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
Example out of ass: If A gets more V*H than B, when 80% of the audience is north american, and A mainly streams between 6pm and 11pm EDT while B streams mainly between 3am and 4am EDT then you can't say shit about who is more popular between A and B. And despite that there are all those people arguing with arguments which are not even correlated to what they use it to argue for..... The only way for any discussion in this thread to possibly have made sense would have been if all the streamers from the list always streamed at the same time for the same amount of time. (and the V*H does not even slightly compensate for that, because stream hours in different locations are not equally popular themselves). Seriously.... What this data is good for is to see the time evolution of the average viewer number for SC and for each player individually, and even then it would need to also have a track of the evolution of the streaming schedules of players to be accurate. So Stephano average viewer drop between now and February does not necessarily mean SC or Stephano are less popular. It could just be that Stephano changed the time at which he is streaming to a less popular time slot or that the popularity of the time slot itself could evolve during the year. When you present statistical data and conclusions based on it, it is your responsibility to give warnings and statements about the possible flaws of its interpretation. If you don't, profane people will believe in false gods and engage in bloody crusades based on irrelevant knowledge like in this thread, wasting both their time and trust.Edit: it sounds a bit like I am bashing the OP but no, there is no out of place conclusion in OP post. However there is no indication for people on how to interpret it correclty. Even in grad school of Math & Physics most students (just personal experience) are still unable to comment statistical data properly, so be careful with it. And whatever your data, when you draw conclusions ALWAYS assume that there is at least an unkown factor which has been missed and is supposed to affect the results in some way. TL;DR statistics are not to use lightly, please edit OP with proper reading advices and remind people that none of the data can lead to popularity conclusions. | ||
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SinCitta
Germany2127 Posts
On October 02 2014 02:43 FreDMouL wrote: Got a warning for asking "Viewbots for Winter ?" Didn't know we can't ask about it... This is like the millionth thread that derailed because of that. Get better evidence and make a new thread or stop derailing. | ||
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Erastin
United States1 Post
I am an avid Winter watcher, a mod in his channel in fact and it saddens me to see all the anger coming his way. I was drawn to Winter's stream because I didn't play SC2 when it first came out, as I was tied down with other commitments when it released. I played SC1 and BW when I was younger but never competitively. Fast forward to 2013 when I finally have some time and want to play SC2. I finish the campaign, do a few easy/medium bot games and feel I am ready to play against actual people but get destroyed horribly. So I try to use resources to get better. I go to watch some streamers, because that is how I got better at other games I played at the time...and what am I greeted with on Twitch? My choice of several streams of people who were "good" but I had no idea who they were and most of the streams were in Korean. They didn't say anything, they listened to music I couldn't understand, and most of the time played on the Korean servers so I didn't even know what the units were. I had no idea what was happening and couldn't garner any useful information from that. Even the GSL/WCS games I watched, I couldn't understand. I had no idea what the heck a 1-1 stim push was, what a doom drop was, or any of the lingo. I could barely understand what units belonged to what races. Winter aims to bridge the gap in skill between someone who just beat there first AI on hard and people who have something resembling an idea of what they are doing. Hell, I still don't know how to pull off a timing attack, but thanks to Winter at least I know what it is. Winter plays against players that are the skill level I am, and in 5 minutes will be playing against people I want to beat/be as good as. All the while explaining what he is doing, what his opponent is doing wrong and answering questions we have in chat. Yes, he isn't a pro-gamer, he isn't a GM bar code, but that IS NOT what he is trying to do. He is trying to get MORE people into SC2. Most people understand that SC2 is a unforgiving beast when it comes to skill level, so that puts a lot of us off when we try to approach it. Winter helps and makes it a little easier to get our faces smashed on the ladder. As for the viewbot claims, it is just some comment made by Richard Lewis (Unfiltered) that someone who isn't pro can't have that many viewers without botting...which he later clarified that he was joking and has since apologized for the sh*t storm it caused. Also, Twitch recently partnered with Winter to give him front-page time, they wouldn't promote someone who is botting. Chat is slow, because we have alot of lurkers who are just watching and learning. Not every Twitch chat has to have the KPM raised, and giant Hitler faces in the chat to have people in it. As a mod, I quickly squash "typical" Twitch chat antics because I want the chat to be slow/clear enough for people to ask questions, and get them answered. The other mods are similar, we want to keep Winter's stream educational and benefit people like it has benefited us. TL:DR Winter wants people to play SC2, he helps noobs get better and makes the game approachable. He isn't the best player, but he isn't trying to be. He doesn't viewbot and his mods police his chat to a crawl so you can ask questions without them getting lost in KPM spam. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25345 Posts
On October 02 2014 03:31 Erastin wrote: Incoming Wall-o-text: I am an avid Winter watcher, a mod in his channel in fact and it saddens me to see all the anger coming his way. I was drawn to Winter's stream because I didn't play SC2 when it first came out, as I was tied down with other commitments when it released. I played SC1 and BW when I was younger but never competitively. Fast forward to 2013 when I finally have some time and want to play SC2. I finish the campaign, do a few easy/medium bot games and feel I am ready to play against actual people but get destroyed horribly. So I try to use resources to get better. I go to watch some streamers, because that is how I got better at other games I played at the time...and what am I greeted with on Twitch? My choice of several streams of people who were "good" but I had no idea who they were and most of the streams were in Korean. They didn't say anything, they listened to music I couldn't understand, and most of the time played on the Korean servers so I didn't even know what the units were. I had no idea what was happening and couldn't garner any useful information from that. Even the GSL/WCS games I watched, I couldn't understand. I had no idea what the heck a 1-1 stim push was, what a doom drop was, or any of the lingo. I could barely understand what units belonged to what races. Winter aims to bridge the gap in skill between someone who just beat there first AI on hard and people who have something resembling an idea of what they are doing. Hell, I still don't know how to pull off a timing attack, but thanks to Winter at least I know what it is. Winter plays against players that are the skill level I am, and in 5 minutes will be playing against people I want to beat/be as good as. All the while explaining what he is doing, what his opponent is doing wrong and answering questions we have in chat. Yes, he isn't a pro-gamer, he isn't a GM bar code, but that IS NOT what he is trying to do. He is trying to get MORE people into SC2. Most people understand that SC2 is a unforgiving beast when it comes to skill level, so that puts a lot of us off when we try to approach it. Winter helps and makes it a little easier to get our faces smashed on the ladder. As for the viewbot claims, it is just some comment made by Richard Lewis (Unfiltered) that someone who isn't pro can't have that many viewers without botting...which he later clarified that he was joking and has since apologized for the sh*t storm it caused. Also, Twitch recently partnered with Winter to give him front-page time, they wouldn't promote someone who is botting. Chat is slow, because we have alot of lurkers who are just watching and learning. Not every Twitch chat has to have the KPM raised, and giant Hitler faces in the chat to have people in it. As a mod, I quickly squash "typical" Twitch chat antics because I want the chat to be slow/clear enough for people to ask questions, and get them answered. The other mods are similar, we want to keep Winter's stream educational and benefit people like it has benefited us. TL:DR Winter wants people to play SC2, he helps noobs get better and makes the game approachable. He isn't the best player, but he isn't trying to be. He doesn't viewbot and his mods police his chat to a crawl so you can ask questions without them getting lost in KPM spam. Good post and welcome to TL! I'm in a similar (kind of) boat to you, but for SC2 read Brood War. I played it casually enough, BGH etc and didn't even realise the whole eSport side of things. Subsequently I feel really sad that I missed out at the time, also went backwards voraciously consuming content where I can. Took quite a while to know even a little of what the heck was going on in terms of pro strats, storylines etc. I would have loved for some kind of equivalent streamer to ease me in to things. Winter is pretty much doing that for those who have come to the game now, or recently rather than us folks who've been around since the start of WoL. | ||
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