EPT2015 Season of Proleague may award WCS points. - Page 7
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Gouka
Brazil11 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On September 16 2014 07:00 fronkschnonk wrote: problem is, rewarding PL with WCS-Points would be unfair within the korean scene: 1. If you're living in korea, not playing on a rich foreign or a Proleague-Team, you're fucked up 2. If you're a mediocre star of a weak team (MKP and Creator), you'll get sent out quite often while a top player on a really strong team might get sent out less because of high in-team competition 3. There is no clear way to qualify for playing in PL if you're in a participating team. The coach decides, not the players skill in the moment of competition Of course good PL-Players would benefit from this and it would be fair in the global scene skillwise. But potentially good players that have no legit way to proof their skill wouldn't benefit from this despite being perhaps just as skilled. There's no perfect system since the scene is so fragmented and all. For example, we see that well-traveled players like Hyun, Taeja or Jaedong score big in the current system, but aside from Taeja it would be hard to say that they are the world's best players. There are always going to be inequities | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
It's a shame that some of the best players in the world, KeSPA's most famous and skilled aces, are not well represented in WCS standings because it is without doubt that they are the most skilled players in their world. Their nature of the sponsor's priorities and the limited, extremely difficult nature of earning WCS points in the Korean region is the biggest problem with the WCS system right now. It's inarguable that the system does not account for how much more difficult it is to earn points in the KR region. Players would love to go to weekend tournaments and destroy foreigners to get easy WCS points, but the reality is that due to KeSPA's interests, teams are not allowed to ship their players around the world them when their sponsorship companies place the highest priority on Proleague. Some may say "Well, why don't their quit their teams, join a foreign team, fly around the world earning WCS points in tournaments instead?" We answer ourselves, why should the best players in the world leave their salaried, stable jobs to game a points system that leads against its own directive (16 best players at Blizzcon)? The solution is not to destroy the structure of the Korean team houses and tournaments; instead, we should build a system which accounts for the reality of the scene and not a far-fetched ideal where the stars of the most skilled region should give up their legacies and livelihoods to earn positions in an end of year tournament which they, as the best Starcraft players, belong in. Fans need to realize that the lifestyle and stability of being on a sponsored team in Korea has predated the WCS system. Pro-gamers should not have to give up their hard earned, stable homes and salaries to accommodate a system that results has proven broken. The stability and structure of these team houses is what every region should be looking to build, not destroy. At least eight of the current top sixteen of WCS do not belong there if our aim is to accumulate the best players in the world for our end of season tournament. It is unrealistic to expect Proleague's stars to fly around the world to play in non-WCS tournaments that award points. Instead, we should allow KeSPA's stars the same opportunity that NA/EU pros enjoy and design a system which will earn them as many points as a foreign star such as Jaedong, MC or San would through non-WCS events. | ||
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Sjokola
Netherlands800 Posts
First we need to establish what the goal of the blizzcon/wcs final is. If it's to host a tournament with this years best players than there's a reason for awarding points to PL. There are a lot of good players there who don't get the opportunity to play in a lot of wcs points awarding tournaments. Whether it's the fault of kespa, the teams, tournament organizers or Blizzard doesn't really matter. We're working towards a goal. If the goal is to have the top players from each region play each other. Well we pretty much got that already imo. (5AM, 6EU, 5KR). I thinks it's really that simple what is our goal how do we get there. tl;dr If we want the best players in the world at Blizzcon yes. If we want an AM vs EU vs KR then no. | ||
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ninjamyst
United States1903 Posts
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astray71
United States325 Posts
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
On September 16 2014 08:33 ninjamyst wrote: Is Blizzcon about the top BEST players in terms of skills or top POPULAR players that are also very good (but may not be the best)?? I rather watch popular players than relatively unknown "best" players. You have to think "general" audience. Alot of people posting here wanting to see the "best" in skills are only a small percentage of Blizzard's target audience... Then watch streams and Dreamhack, IEM, etc. That's not the point of the Blizzcon tournament. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25613 Posts
I've long thought a complete calendar rework is worth a shot. Coordinating may prove impossible, but a rigidly defined season with chunks allocated for Proleague, WCS events and weekend tournaments could prove beneficial. With say, a defined period for Proleague this would let Kespa players focus on it, with the potential of travelling once that period elapses. As things stand tournaments all overlap and players frequently have to prioritise tournaments rather too often for my tastes. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On September 16 2014 08:41 Lunareste wrote: Then watch streams and Dreamhack, IEM, etc. That's not the point of the Blizzcon tournament. what is the point of blizzcon then? is there a source of blizzard literally saying "the point of blizzcon is to host the 16 most skilled players"? awarding points based on separate competitions players can choose to attend or not attend or may have issues attending is never ever going to result in "the 16 most skilled players." the best you could do for that would be an invitational and that would open up even more of a shitstorm when the community thinks the #16 spot should have gone to #17 or gripes about no chance for foreigners etc | ||
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RiSkysc2
696 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On September 16 2014 08:43 Wombat_NI wrote: I am surprised this isn't mentioned more often, but there are flaws with any methodology you adopt. I've long thought a complete calendar rework is worth a shot. Coordinating may prove impossible, but a rigidly defined season with chunks allocated for Proleague, WCS events and weekend tournaments could prove beneficial. With say, a defined period for Proleague this would let Kespa players focus on it, with the potential of travelling once that period elapses. As things stand tournaments all overlap and players frequently have to prioritise tournaments rather too often for my tastes. Good point, the Proleague season currently begins right before the new WCS year and ends about 2-3 months before Blizzcon. Not much time to make use of their freedom from PL. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On September 16 2014 08:55 brickrd wrote: what is the point of blizzcon then? is there a source of blizzard literally saying "the point of blizzcon is to host the 16 most skilled players"? awarding points based on separate competitions players can choose to attend or not attend or may have issues attending is never ever going to result in "the 16 most skilled players." the best you could do for that would be an invitational and that would open up even more of a shitstorm when the community thinks the #16 spot should have gone to #17 or gripes about no chance for foreigners etc "After much discussion and collaboration with our partners, we've developed a new tournament series with a cohesive structure and unified global point ranking system that ties major StarCraft II competition together. The StarCraft II WCS will give eSports fans an exciting, globe-circling story to follow throughout the year [...] Using a unified ranking system to track player performance across multiple seasons and events will help make it easier to clearly identify the world's best StarCraft II players, and make it so everyone can follow along with their favorite players as stories and events unfold. Every match will carry added excitement, and every outcome will be more meaningful." Battle.net From my understanding, they just wanted to tie all the already existing tournaments together. EDIT: Allow me to clarify: it seems that the point of WCS is to encourage players and viewers alike to pay attention to the various tournaments going on in the StarCraft II scene by giving those tournaments additional value as a qualification method for Blizzcon, and thus helping to sustain the scene. By this understanding Blizzcon exists specifically to discourage players from staying in their corner and not participating in the overall scene. In other words, what people are criticising most about it is specifically its reason for existing. | ||
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hesho89
Canada106 Posts
if kespa wants to get more wcs points, they should make more tourneys in korea i think... It would also provide more tourneys in korea in general which can only help the scene there. | ||
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Shinespark
Chile843 Posts
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
2015 - Year of "Lets see how many ways we can screw Axiom". Let me know if there's anything else so we can start transitioning to Hearthstone or something. | ||
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Crot4le
England2927 Posts
On September 15 2014 20:00 shabby wrote: Much rather have more individual tournaments based in Korea, than rewarding WCS points for something that has nothing to do with individual performances, and that 99% of players cannot participate in (no, its not the same as MLG/DH/IEM, because everyone "can" participate, if they travel). Exactly. Awarding WCS points for Proleague is not the solution to this problem, another individual league to complement GSL is. | ||
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Silvana
3713 Posts
On September 16 2014 09:06 Fanatic-Templar wrote: "After much discussion and collaboration with our partners, we've developed a new tournament series with a cohesive structure and unified global point ranking system that ties major StarCraft II competition together. The StarCraft II WCS will give eSports fans an exciting, globe-circling story to follow throughout the year [...] Using a unified ranking system to track player performance across multiple seasons and events will help make it easier to clearly identify the world's best StarCraft II players, and make it so everyone can follow along with their favorite players as stories and events unfold. Every match will carry added excitement, and every outcome will be more meaningful." Battle.net From my understanding, they just wanted to tie all the already existing tournaments together. EDIT: Allow me to clarify: it seems that the point of WCS is to encourage players and viewers alike to pay attention to the various tournaments going on in the StarCraft II scene by giving those tournaments additional value as a qualification method for Blizzcon, and thus helping to sustain the scene. By this understanding Blizzcon exists specifically to discourage players from staying in their corner and not participating in the overall scene. In other words, what people are criticising most about it is specifically its reason for existing. So Blizzcon goals go directly against the fundamentals of Proleague. It's a shame imo, because I think the KR scene is what we should be looking up to develop in the foreign world, not to mention that Proleague is probably the only thing that keeps the KR scene together... | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On September 16 2014 09:34 Crot4le wrote: Exactly. Awarding WCS points for Proleague is not the solution to this problem, another individual league to complement GSL is. making posts like "the solution is to add another league" without actually going into details of who would create and sponsor the league is pointless. hey guys the solution isnt a region lock, its to invent teleportation so there are no regions anymore. why hasnt david kim invented teleportation yet i think some fans need a reality check on how relevant this scene is, how much you can accomplish and when the right time is to compromise on the best solution thats actually possible rather than begging jesus for miracles | ||
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Crot4le
England2927 Posts
 ) when he said that there will be more opportunities for Koreans to earn WCS points next year.WCS points for Proleague is a ridiculous policy and a lazy band-aid over a problem which runs much deeper (not enough tournaments in Korea). Having WCS points in Proleague is also something that is going to influence the coaches' decisions that should not be relevant in a team league. | ||
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Crot4le
England2927 Posts
On September 16 2014 09:38 brickrd wrote: making posts like "the solution is to add another league" without actually going into details of who would create and sponsor the league is pointless. hey guys the solution isnt a region lock, its to invent teleportation so there are no regions anymore. why hasnt david kim invented teleportation yet i think some fans need a reality check on how relevant this scene is, how much you can accomplish and when the right time is to compromise on the best solution thats actually possible rather than begging jesus for miracles Blizzard in collaboration with KeSPA and SPOTV. It's Blizzard who have created this fragile situation in Korea with the implementation of a region lock so really it should be them who make sure the safeguard (new individual league) is in place to protect the Korean scene from this decision. | ||
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