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On September 16 2014 05:44 Zenbrez wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2014 05:34 Larkin wrote:
SYMPATHY POINTS
If it's a big deal for Kespa players to go to Blizzcon, then they need to go to tournaments across the world and compete for points there. They have the GSL - it's a shame there aren't more individual leagues in Korea (like the OSL) running alongside them.
If Kespa doesn't send its players to foreign tournaments enough, that's THEIR problem. They shouldn't be given WCS points for PL just because they don't send their players out, even if it is a money issue.
If the players don't like it, they can do what so many have done, and join a foreign team, where they can compete across the world for WCS points - less prestige, aye, but more $$$, and it is a job after all.
THAT SAID, GSL does award more prize money, so perhaps it could award more WCS points too. But that'd be hard to do without making some baseless judgements about how difficult the competition is. That's absolutely the wrong attitude to carry. Blizzard shouldn't be like "These are the rules, with no consideration taken for the health of the scene". They need to cooperate and accommodate for everybody to be happy and things to work out. If you intentionally fuck Kespa over with your point of view, only bad things will happen. Kespa players have commitments to Proleague, do you know what this means? It's not stubbornness or ignorance, they are locked in to play in the league, which means they have little opportunity to go abroad. If WCS is meant to identify the top 16 players in the world, changes need to be made - because clearly, some less-than-great players are going this year, and some of the undisputed greatest players are not. Blaming their "lack of willingness to travel" is stupid and shortsighted. Changes to the system has to be done to accommodate their situation.
I wasn't saying it was stubborness or ignorance - I was saying that, by playing in PL, they are stopping themselves from playing in other leagues. That's their decision to make. PL has a lot of money and a lot of prestige in it for winning - if you have to sacrifice WCS points for that, I think it's fair enough. They shouldn't be given points just because "oh, you poor things, having to play in PL... have some points too so you can come to Blizzcon and all the hard work other players have done travelling across the world is meaningless".
I like the idea of having more players at Blizzcon or more competing for seeds. The snooker model posted above actually seems really good. It would certainly make WCS more inclusive and more 'World' rather than just 15 Koreans and maybe 1 foreigner (Naniwa, Snute).
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On September 16 2014 05:47 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2014 05:44 Morbidius wrote:
50 points per proleague win seems reasonable enough. So if you get sent out every time in an 8 team round robin for 6 rounds and win 2/3 your games you get 1400 points. That's… a lot.
maybe wins from all-kill format should not count
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your Country52798 Posts
On September 16 2014 06:00 jojos11 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2014 05:47 The_Templar wrote:On September 16 2014 05:44 Morbidius wrote:
50 points per proleague win seems reasonable enough. So if you get sent out every time in an 8 team round robin for 6 rounds and win 2/3 your games you get 1400 points. That's… a lot. maybe wins from all-kill format should not count
That's using this season's format not counting playoffs. So not all kills
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Have a KesPA cup 3 times a year maybe, and invite the top 4 or 6 proleague players instead of the top 2.
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On September 16 2014 05:47 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2014 05:44 Morbidius wrote:
50 points per proleague win seems reasonable enough. So if you get sent out every time in an 8 team round robin for 6 rounds and win 2/3 your games you get 1400 points. That's… a lot.
How many players could accomplish that? Seems like a good reward to me.
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I think it is totally reasonable. The players that do the best in Proleague are the ones who tend to do well in other competitions as well or the ones that we would like to see being sent overseas more often anyways.
To all those FlaSh fanboys out there who are against this... he would probably be going to blizzcon if this was a thing this year...
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Interesting. Proleague is certainly a very competitive league and rewarding players who perform well with WCS points makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, since all players are chosen by the coaches, it's basically an invite-only tournament, so I hope they don't give out too many points for it.
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That's cool and all, but KR simply needs more tournaments, and those tournaments need more viewers to justify them. The Korean scene is way to big to be supported by the viewership.
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this might sound weird but i think WCS points for ladder is okay. Like lets say top 8 non-barcode of each region gets WCS points at end of season. It will encourage barcodes to unmask their identity, more progamers will stream and it will make ladder extremely competitive. I'm not sure how points should be allocated since the skill difference is quite noticable though. The downside might be players wintrading and cheating to win
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WCS points for a team league feels very wrong to me.
They just need to stop allowing invitational tournaments giving WCS points (g3, homestorycup, lone star clash, ASUS ROG, etc)
Only tournaments with open brackets and/or with 100% of the players coming from some sort of qualification are allowed to give WCS points, like MLG, Dreamhack and WCS KR/AM/EU.
IEM would need to be tweaked a bit, since there's invites seeded in the ro16 and the open brackets have very few slots
With less points being handed for (almost) free to the players who can travel all the time, and less tournaments giving points, Kespa players just need to find a way of going to 1 or 2 of them through the year to grab points (aside from doing well in WCS KR).
This way they can actually compete in the WCS rankings with people like liquid players, jaedong, mc, hyun, polt, bomber who go to almost every tournament and benefit of these invitationals
Someone should do a 'revised' WCS rankings, excluding points given from tournaments full of invites to see the difference
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Hmm, if that happened, WCS points would be more of a joke...
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problem is, rewarding PL with WCS-Points would be unfair within the korean scene:
1. If you're living in korea, not playing on a rich foreign or a Proleague-Team, you're fucked up
2. If you're a mediocre star of a weak team (MKP and Creator), you'll get sent out quite often while a top player on a really strong team might get sent out less because of high in-team competition
3. There is no clear way to qualify for playing in PL if you're in a participating team. The coach decides, not the players skill in the moment of competition
Of course good PL-Players would benefit from this and it would be fair in the global scene skillwise. But potentially good players that have no legit way to proof their skill wouldn't benefit from this despite being perhaps just as skilled.
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+1 for more individual events in Korea
It's sad that Koreans feel they need to leave Korea to continue their career; but who can blame them? Sure, traveling is common in other careers as well, but it's usually more of an option. These kids are pretty much forced to move away from their families and everything they know just to keep up with the system, and that's sad imo. 
Traveling for tournaments is one thing, having to move completely is a problem (and it's a problem that really only Koreans have to deal with at the moment). Ironically, this is a role-reversal since you had to move to Korea to play Brood War professionally (and look how well that worked out :D).
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JUST travel and collect WCS points like every1 else does over many international tournaments....if u dont want to travel and play comfortablely at home ( KOREA) and still want to collect enough WCS point to go BLITZCON then it seem unfair to those korean and foreigner must travel alots to get there or not even get there...
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Why people are hating JD?
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On September 16 2014 07:05 dungsieu wrote:
JUST travel and collect WCS points like every1 else does over many international tournaments....if u dont want to travel and play comfortablely at home ( KOREA) and still want to collect enough WCS point to go BLITZCON then it seem unfair to those korean and foreigner must travel alots to get there or not even get there...
and right now its fair that blizzcon participation is basically determined by who has the most travelling money and the most open schedule? instead of, you know, skill in starcraft?
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wouldn't the best scenario be if proleague had some gaps in their scheduling to allow their players to travel for foreign tournaments?
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On September 16 2014 07:19 negativedge wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2014 07:05 dungsieu wrote:
JUST travel and collect WCS points like every1 else does over many international tournaments....if u dont want to travel and play comfortablely at home ( KOREA) and still want to collect enough WCS point to go BLITZCON then it seem unfair to those korean and foreigner must travel alots to get there or not even get there... and right now its fair that blizzcon participation is basically determined by who has the most travelling money and the most open schedule? instead of, you know, skill in starcraft?
the consequence of your words is to remove WCS points from any event that is not the original WCS league. which is quite a good thing imo
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I just wanna see the best players vs the best players and right now Kespa pretty much has a monopoly on the best players.
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On September 15 2014 19:53 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2014 19:48 SatedSC2 wrote:
This would be terrible.
WCS points are part of the build up to Blizzard's premier individual competition. They shouldn't be given out in a team competition. Not only that, but it basically gives points to a tournament that most of the playerbase cannot participate in
The problem this year has been that the top players have been participating in Proleague which has limited their ability to play in WCS tournaments. The result is that some of the best players in the world have been unable to qualify for Blizzcon. A lot of players don't participate in Proleague, yes, but they have a lot of opportunity to earn points elsewhere. It's no coincidence that the majority of the top 16 have not played in Proleague this year.
You guys are acting as if they're giving 3v3 and 4v4 ladder players WCS points. Performing well in Proleague takes a lot of individual skill which should be rewarded just as much as killing foreigners at random Dreamhacks.
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EPT
