EPTI felt WCS EU finals was one of the best tournaments I can recall despite lacking the very, very best players.
2015 Season of Proleague may award WCS points. - Page 11
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26096 Posts
I felt WCS EU finals was one of the best tournaments I can recall despite lacking the very, very best players. | ||
Liquid`Snute
Norway839 Posts
surely if i was making something like 6000$ per month i would treat myself an airline ticket to a foreign event or two. it's nice as a foreigner to get the chance to play against kespa more than once per year. | ||
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REyeM
2674 Posts
On September 16 2014 21:40 Liquid`Snute wrote: does people want foreign tournaments (dreamhack, red bull, iem) to have zero kespa players throughout the year and then have the kespa gods show up in wcs global finals? surely if i was making something like 6000$ per month i would treat myself an airline ticket to a foreign event or two. it's nice as a foreigner to get the chance to play against kespa more than once per year. I mean cleary KeSPA's #1 priority is SPL, so they cannot attend during that. But, I think that I'd would have been great if KeSPA could partner up with ESL, DreamHacks etc. and constantly keep sending their players to those events after SPL season ends, August through December. Similar to when they partnered up with MLG way back in 2012. Edit: also you wouldn't have players like Rain and PartinG leaving SKT in order to have that experience. | ||
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Liquid`Snute
Norway839 Posts
On September 16 2014 21:48 REyeM wrote: I mean cleary KeSPA's #1 priority is SPL, so they cannot attend during that. But, I think that I'd would have been great if KeSPA could partner up with ESL, DreamHacks etc. and constantly keep sending their players to those events after SPL season ends, August through December. Similar to when they partnered up with MLG way back in 2012. Edit: also you wouldn't have players like Rain and PartinG leaving SKT in order to have that experience. Yes  when players apparently feel like they have to leave KeSPA in order to experience foreign events i can't help but feel like we've missed the mark at some point. | ||
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Dingodile
4137 Posts
On September 16 2014 21:48 REyeM wrote: I mean cleary KeSPA's #1 priority is SPL, so they cannot attend during that. But, I think that I'd would have been great if KeSPA could partner up with ESL, DreamHacks etc. and constantly keep sending their players to those events after SPL season ends, August through December. Similar to when they partnered up with MLG way back in 2012. Edit: also you wouldn't have players like Rain and PartinG leaving SKT in order to have that experience. This only existed because kespa player weren't allowed to play other Foreigner tournaments, MLG wanted this exclusiveness. | ||
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absinthfee
Germany718 Posts
On September 16 2014 16:59 Honner wrote: Just make the WCS main event be: top 4 proleague performers. top 4 korean region on WCS points. top 4 EU region on WCS points. top 4 US region on WCS points. If there is any overlap, just trickle down the invite spots to further down the respective regions (e.g. GSL/proleague overlap). How would you rate the top4 performer? The 3 champions + 1 of the runner ups? | ||
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pNRG
United States333 Posts
On September 15 2014 19:57 Dunmer wrote: Yes they should be given to these players. You have so many players performing amazingly in pro league and missing out on foreign events because they chose to focus on this tournament. SoO isn't guranteed a blizzcon spot despite two final appearances, he deserves more points in the form of his pro league performance to help guarantee a spot They don't want to participate in the system, they don't get to qualify for the rewards the system gives. Pretty simple. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On September 16 2014 22:05 pNRG wrote: They don't want to participate in the system, they don't get to qualify for the rewards the system gives. Pretty simple. While that is true, maybe the system itself is pretty bad  | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Debatable, if I lock myself up and only come out once a year, I have a pretty huge advantage over people that travel around and don't have as much time training. It might make me the best for a tiny moment in the whole year. But the World Champion is about the whole year. And gathering points belongs into that ordeal of becoming the world champion. If they give the "best at sc2" points for free, they will have an unfair advantage, because there is less material about them to analyze and they also had more time to hone their skills. It would be okay to increase the points in a region based on how difficult it is for them to travel etc. But not because they choose to not travel. But the best player varies from person to person because people value things differently. For me for example you can't be the best player if you can't win weekend tournaments and only do well in drawn out tournaments or the other way round. Especially since Blizzcon is a weekender for the most part. And I don't want people participate that don't care about getting enough points and usually do bad at weekenders anyway. My biggest reason against PL points though is that I would prefer more tournaments in the korean region. And it seems neither Blizzard nor Kespa want to sink money there. I guess both fear that Taeja wouldn't retire for real and win them anyway. | ||
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REyeM
2674 Posts
My biggest reason against PL points though is that I would prefer more tournaments in the korean region. And it seems neither Blizzard nor Kespa want to sink money there. I guess both fear that Taeja wouldn't retire for real and win them anyway. Yeah, like he did in KeSPA Cup. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8244 Posts
On September 16 2014 09:33 TotalBiscuit wrote: I'm obviously against this from a team point of view. Running a Proleague team is something that isn't financially viable to anyone who doesn't have a big KeSPA sponsor in my honest opinion. While it might compensate for not sending proleague players out of the country to foreign events, it also forces non-Proleague teams to fly out to more foreign events to keep up, not to mention the nonsensical nature of giving out WCS individual points for team efforts. 2015 - Year of "Lets see how many ways we can screw Axiom". Let me know if there's anything else so we can start transitioning to Hearthstone or something. WCS is already about flying to as many tournaments as possible. | ||
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joseramirez
Mexico18 Posts
sorry, how can i delete a post? | ||
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joseramirez
Mexico18 Posts
On September 16 2014 22:24 geokilla wrote: WCS is already about flying to as many tournaments as possible. And be invited to most of them, not even qualify. | ||
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Thax
Belgium1060 Posts
On September 15 2014 20:09 sagi wrote: I'll quote myself from a thread where this got lost in a debate wether Catz thinks people are idiots or not: Why would Proleague players need to be compensated for not participating in other tournaments? It's their choice to do that. What makes them worth more than others to get exceptions? | ||
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Darkdwarf
Sweden960 Posts
On September 16 2014 22:02 absinthfee wrote: How would you rate the top4 performer? The 3 champions + 1 of the runner ups? I think he meant the top 4 in collected points at the end of the year. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On September 16 2014 22:53 joseramirez wrote: And be invited to most of them, not even qualify. name a tournament mc or hyun were invited to which they wouldn't have qualified for otherwise | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On September 16 2014 23:09 Thax wrote: Why would Proleague players need to be compensated for not participating in other tournaments? It's their choice to do that. What makes them worth more than others to get exceptions? because they're better, people want to see them and the kespa infrastructure makes it unreasonable for them to attend enough international tournaments i dont get the "its their choice" thing people keep repeating, are we supposed to be letting the players' choices determine how the wcs system works? shouldnt it be about finding the best experience for the fans, not screwing great players because they didnt quit their proleague teams to go to dreamhacks or whatever? theres this weird anti-korean sentiment i keep seeing where for some reason people dont want to open opportunities to korean players. so when koreans go abroad and win points and beat foreigners people get angry because theyre preying on lower skilled opponents and taking "our" prizes, yet the koreans who stay in korea and commit to playing at the highest levels shouldnt be helped to compete internationally or make it to blizzard's pet finals? why? i would understand if foreigners actually had any chance of winning your dreamhacks, your IEMs, etc, but they dont, theyre just going to lose to taeja/hyun/mc or yoda, true, whichever korean is at the tournament. we get a few minutes of FOREIGN HOPE! when snute is in a late round and then a korean wins anyway. so why are people so adamantly opposed to proleague koreans being helped to compete internationally? i cant understand it unless its literally just resentment toward korean people because of the state of foreign competition how is it somehow worse for foreigners if maru beats taeja in the finals of a tournament instead of taeja beating hyun? | ||
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Thax
Belgium1060 Posts
On September 16 2014 23:16 brickrd wrote: because they're better, people want to see them and the kespa infrastructure makes it unreasonable for them to attend enough international tournaments i dont get the "its their choice" thing people keep repeating, are we supposed to be letting the players' choices determine how the wcs system works? shouldnt it be about finding the best experience for the fans, not screwing great players because they didnt quit their proleague teams to go to dreamhacks or whatever? Erh, no. I'm saying exactly the opposite. I'm saying, the problem is KeSPA not WCS. If they want their players in WCS, or rather if their players want to be in WCS, they should create the opportunities. The point of an organisation like theirs is to support their players and grow the sport right? They can do that either by sending their players to participate in tournaments abroad, like every other player in the world has to do, or by creating more WCS eligible tournaments in Korea for their and other players to compete in. WCS is created to be a global tournament, filled with players who participate in the global scene. I don't see why it has to bend over backwards to accommodate players who don't participate in that scene. Your idea of "the best experience for the fans" might be to see it turned into KeSPA S 2.0, but mine very much isn't. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On September 16 2014 23:32 Thax wrote: Erh, no. I'm saying exactly the opposite. I'm saying, the problem is KeSPA not WCS. If they want their players in WCS, or rather if their players want to be in WCS, they should create the opportunities. The point of an organisation like theirs is to support their players and grow the sport right? They can do that either by sending their players to participate in tournaments abroad, like every other player in the world has to do, or by creating more WCS eligible tournaments in Korea for their and other players to compete in. WCS is created to be a global tournament, filled with players who participate in the global scene. I don't see why it has to bend over backwards to accommodate players who don't participate in that scene. Your idea of "the best experience for the fans" might be to see it turned into KeSPA S 2.0, but mine very much isn't. your argument makes no sense because giving points to proleague isnt going to make it 'kespa 2.0." if anything its just going to be the same list except with players like MC and Hyun further toward the middle/bottom and guys like rain or maru appearing, which would be amazing and good. international koreans will still be there, it will just be less easy for them. what does it matter who "creates the opportunities" when the result is the same? if blizzard has the resources to do it and wants to do it then who gives a fuck whether kespa is making the opportunities? i sure dont. you seem to think there needs to be a duality between "supporting korean scene" and competing internationally and theres no reason for that because blizzard is clearly happy to do it and there is no drawback. what kespa does or what the players do has nothing to do with anything because its better for everyone if proleague players are able to score points. you are arguing against a hallucinated dream scenario where the top 16 is just a list of the top proleague performers and that will obviously never happen, its a paranoid anti-korean nightmare that doesnt exist both antiforeigner and antikorean fans always seem to dream up this version of the scene where the korean scene is separate and unrelated to "the international scene." it is all tied together. just because you dont care to watch kespa players or some other guy doesnt care to watch foreigners those opinions dont invalidate their relevancy to the scene. they are all important and tying them all closer together is a good thing and a step forward | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
On September 16 2014 23:09 Thax wrote: Why would Proleague players need to be compensated for not participating in other tournaments? It's their choice to do that. What makes them worth more than others to get exceptions? On September 16 2014 16:06 Elroi wrote: Because as it is now the system is fucked. Arguably the three best players in the world arent in top 16 (if you go by the power rank). This is a huge problem both for kespa and blizzard. Its a problem for blizzard because their tournament is in no way going to be the most competitive and interesting of the year and its a problem for kespa since they get less exposure for the sponsors. Now why does blizzard care about kespa? Because sc2 needs the korean scene. If kespa and their infrastructure goes down, korean sc2 most pobably is going to disappear with it along with a big chunk of foreign fans of korean sc2. | ||
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