EPTPros React: WCS 2015 and Region Lock - Page 6
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NOTICE: Blizzard has not officially announced any information on visa criteria, and some players are operating under unconfirmed assumptions. | ||
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ETisME
12806 Posts
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imre
France9263 Posts
On September 10 2014 09:19 ETisME wrote: I think it's pretty easy to tell the skill difference between Koreans and foreigners, maybe with exception of very top tier foreigners like snute and scarlett. for most top players it's pretty easy to say who's playing in some match ups, a lot of them have their own style(who would confuse a ZvP with Solar/MC and one with Snute/Rain...). But ofc Avilo and FlaSh both mech the same way according to Catz (who's maybe a professional entertainer but i doubt he lives with the money his skill brings) | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On September 10 2014 09:42 sAsImre wrote: for most top players it's pretty easy to say who's playing in some match ups, a lot of them have their own style(who would confuse a ZvP with Solar/MC and one with Snute/Rain...). But ofc Avilo and FlaSh both mech the same way according to Catz (who's maybe a professional entertainer but i doubt he lives with the money his skill brings) is this a real quote? | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
no just what you could put in Catz mouth if you wanted to ridicule him :D. (even between FlaSh and Happy the style is soooooo different tbh that if you know about it you can't confuse them) | ||
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invisigoat
184 Posts
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Fall.182
United States126 Posts
On September 10 2014 05:36 SuperHofmann wrote: For who that don't want to read Eu: region lock, ok Na: cry cry tears tears we are too weak for beating korean players please Blizzard remove koreans from america pl0z That's it Yup.Pretty much. | ||
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stefan16
103 Posts
Reality hurts | ||
Waxangel
United States33662 Posts
On September 10 2014 08:49 BreAKerTV wrote: The part about the Koreans in Taiwan is B.S. Allow me to explain: a lot of Koreans in Taiwan are capable of applying for visitor visas to compete in the TeSL circuit, but they are not capable of applying for resident visas to compete in the TeSL circuit. What is the difference? In 2014, if a non-Taiwanese player wanted to compete in the WCS 2014 Taiwan / Hong Kong / Macao qualifiers, they would have to have a resident visa. And before anyone says anything about Sase, I must tell you all he was living a visa-free existence in Taiwan by leaving this country once every 90 days. http://sc2.egamers.tw/907 CTRL+F. Search the words, "DETERMINING RESIDENCY" Unfortunately, the government of Taiwan does not recognize any form of eSports as legitimate enough to grant resident visas. Blizzard Taiwan explicitly stated that if a player wanted to compete in WCS Taiwan / Hong Kong / Macao qualifiers, the said player would have to have a resident visa to be eligible. So, I am an English teacher in Taiwan and I now hold a resident visa. That means I can enter the WCS America: Taiwan / Macao / Hong Kong qualifiers when they happen for next year. And find no recourse in China either. I have asked Netease if it would be possible for even a Canadian-born Chinese player with Chinese Permanent Residence (aka equivalent to Chinese green card) to compete in that region, and they said no. Bottom line? Citizenship requirement for mainland China, and Legitimate Raison d'etre in Taiwan. Good to know what the current policy is, since it will probably at least be that strict going forward. Are you sure it's that impossible for Koreans to get that kind of visa? | ||
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ROOTCatZ
Peru1236 Posts
On September 10 2014 09:42 sAsImre wrote: for most top players it's pretty easy to say who's playing in some match ups, a lot of them have their own style(who would confuse a ZvP with Solar/MC and one with Snute/Rain...). But ofc Avilo and FlaSh both mech the same way according to Catz (who's maybe a professional entertainer but i doubt he lives with the money his skill brings) You're missing the point, I could show you a match between a top forgeiner and a top korean with the names blacked out, tell you its both koreans, and I much doubt you'd be able to refute it unless I told you this beforehand. Good point you make, I am a professional entretainer, and yet I play many top level koreans like soO, PartinG, Solar, DRG, and I take games from them more often than you'd think, I also play on the KR GM ladder, and I know I beat KeSPA / Code S pros fairly often, Does this mean I'll win a tournament? no, does it mean im favored against these players in a BO3 or BO5 ? hell no, but the gap really isn't as big as people think, if that's me - as an entretainer, you can likely imagine the gap between good forgeiners and koreans is even smaller. The point I'm making is, if you watched me beating soO in a macro game with the names blacked out and I told you it wasn't me but instead some other korean, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference in a casted match. I am not looking to offend anyone's knowledge, I know I'd struggle telling them appart myself, at the top level there's always gonna be brilliant plays, there's always going to be big blunders. Koreans are better than forgeiners on average, without a shadow of a doubt, but the point I am making is, it's all in tiny details, more often than not mechanical that you would likely not notice in a casted game, if flash keeps his minerals bellow 100 and bunny keeps it bellow 150, that could be the difference between a win and a lose, ONE extra unit will make a giant difference in a big engagement and completely turn it around, I am saying that if Flash would have 150 vs soO's 150 supply and Bunny had 148 supply vs Snute's 148 supply in a game where nothing else happens on the same map in parallel worlds, you would not be able to tell and be like WAIT THAT'S NOT FLASH THAT'S BUNNY! without examining the replay or knowing either playstyle well enough to identify them for that. I am not arguing you couldn't tell the difference between players because of playstyle, you could tell the difference between almost any 2 players if you know their playstyle well, that's far from the point I am trying to make. | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
Which of us is wrong here because afaik the above is common knowledge, apart from the shining talents that EU/NA have to offer, which number in the few. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:31 ROOTCatZ wrote: You're missing the point, I could show you a match between a top forgeiner and a top korean with the names blacked out, tell you its both koreans, and I much doubt you'd be able to refute it unless I told you this beforehand. Good point you make, I am a professional entretainer, and yet I play many top level koreans like soO, PartinG, Solar, DRG, and I take games from them more often than you'd think, I also play on the KR GM ladder, and I know I beat KeSPA / Code S pros fairly often, Does this mean I'll win a tournament? no, does it mean im favored against these players in a BO3 or BO5 ? hell no, but the gap really isn't as big as people think, if that's me - as an entretainer, you can likely imagine the gap between good forgeiners and koreans is even smaller. The point I'm making is, if you watched me beating soO in a macro game with the names blacked out and I told you it wasn't me but instead some other korean, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference in a casted match. I am not looking to offend anyone's knowledge, I know I'd struggle telling them appart myself, at the top level there's always gonna be brilliant plays, there's always going to be big blunders. Koreans are better than forgeiners on average, without a shadow of a doubt, but the point I am making is, it's all in tiny details, more often than not mechanical that you would likely not notice in a casted game, if flash keeps his minerals bellow 100 and bunny keeps it bellow 150, that could be the difference between a win and a lose, ONE extra unit will make a giant difference in a big engagement and completely turn it around, I am saying that if Flash would have 150 vs soO's 150 supply and Bunny had 148 supply vs Snute's 148 supply in a game where nothing else happens on the same map in parallel worlds, you would not be able to tell and be like WAIT THAT'S NOT FLASH THAT'S BUNNY! without examining the replay or knowing either playstyle well enough to identify them for that. I am not arguing you couldn't tell the difference between players because of playstyle, you could tell the difference between almost any 2 players if you know their playstyle well, that's far from the point I am trying to make. you make it like every top player plays the same while it's absolutely false. In the firsty 10min of a TvZ you can call if it's flash/polt/taeja/maru/bomber just by looking at the build/building and unit placement/use. Almost every top player is extremely stylistic (only a few are you standard kind of player, Cure/Taeja for T eg and still taeja has his own TvP). The fact most casters absolutely suck at highlighting this just annoys me but it doesn't mean you can't see it. And you underestimate the difference in unit control, it doesn't allow you to identify who's playing but i can tell you that some players have a way crisper unit control than others. (taeja ghost micro is so ridiculously good eg and there is no way to believe it's bunny playing). You act like macroing is hard in sc2 while the truth is that it isn't. Macroing is easy and that's why you pick the only exemple where most top foreigners are close to koreans. The difference is mostly about unit control, multitask and decisions (don't tell me you can confuse a Maru multi pronged attack with a foreigner doing the same). The way Rain or MC are prepared vs T drops even with limited vision, i've yet to see it from a foreigner. The point I'm making is, if you watched me beating soO in a macro game with the names blacked out and I told you it wasn't me but instead some other korean, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference in a casted match. If you were a top T playing vs soO i'd need less than 10 minutes to give you no more than 3names if it was a broadcasted match (ladders even top kr gm means shit except to predict who to watch in the next IEM qualifier in order to be super hipster). (and fuck those who play 100% standard making it very hard to recognize them :D) | ||
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Wasaru
United States91 Posts
Destiny and Catz say a bunch of weird stuff and it's gotten them a lot of fans, but it has also made them lose a lot of credibility If you mean to tell me that I can't tell the difference between Neeb vs Desrow and Flash vs Zest if the names were blurred out then I will simply take it as an insult. | ||
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Random_0
United States1163 Posts
If that is true, why do almost all matches between Koreans and foreigners end up with the Koreans winning? Only the very rare foreigner like Snute or maybe Scarlett have actually beaten the Koreans in heads-up matches, and you almost never see the top Koreans like Zest, Rain, Maru, etc. get beat by foreigners. | ||
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ROOTCatZ
Peru1236 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:41 sAsImre wrote: you make it like every top player plays the same while it's absolutely false. In the firsty 10min of a TvZ you can call if it's flash/polt/taeja/maru/bomber just by looking at the build/building and unit placement/use. Almost every top player is extremely stylistic (only a few are you standard kind of player, Cure/Taeja for T eg and still taeja has his own TvP). The fact most casters absolutely suck at highlighting this just annoys me but it doesn't mean you can't see it. And you underestimate the difference in unit control, it doesn't allow you to identify who's playing but i can tell you that some players have a way crisper unit control than others. (taeja ghost micro is so ridiculously good eg and there is no way to believe it's bunny playing). You act like macroing is hard in sc2 while the truth is that it isn't. Macroing is easy and that's why you pick the only exemple where most top foreigners are close to koreans. The difference is mostly about unit control, multitask and decisions (don't tell me you can confuse a Maru multi pronged attack with a foreigner doing the same). The way Rain or MC are prepared vs T drops even with limited vision, i've yet to see it from a foreigner. If you were a top T playing vs soO i'd need less than 10 minutes to give you no more than 3names if it was a broadcasted match (ladders even top kr gm means shit except to predict who to watch in the next IEM qualifier in order to be super hipster). (and fuck those who play 100% standard making it very hard to recognize them :D) You're completely missing the point I'm trying to make again, I am not talking about playstyle of course everyone has different playstyles, im merely pointing out the gap in skill isn't as big as people think, and a game between two top forgeiners can be just as exciting and interesting as two top koreans, I've repeated this about 20 times now, but I'm not talking about style, I dont doubt that if you're a Bomber fan you can likely tell its him playing much like if you're a TRUE fan you can definetly know its him playing, I'm not talking about individuals but rather regions as a whole, idc that people can identify their favorite players by play, I am merely debating people whose argument is "I don't want this because I want to see the best play possible and forgeiners are bad" kind of thing, not sure how that's hard to understand, sorry if I was confusing with my wording. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
The manner contrast between his answer and Taeja's is so fucking funny ^^ | ||
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Dragoonstorm7
United States599 Posts
Good for foreign scene, but korea should be worth more points to balance. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
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Zanzabarr
Canada217 Posts
I enjoy the top level of play as much as the next avid starcraft 2 fan, and enjoy watching the top players in the GSL..... but when it comes to play a step down from the top, I'd much rather watch local favourites and foreign hopes than B-level korean no-names. I think it comes down to some people being, what I'd like to call, Starcraft snobs. They have a preconceived notion about a particular match based on the players involved, and let this preconceived notion heavily influence their enjoyment/appreciation of the match. It's like being a wine snob. Just because a wine is more expensive, doesn't make it better. Wine experts would disagree, until you remove the labels... then they can't accurately tell the difference. It has been proven many times. | ||
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negativedge
4279 Posts
taeja = no fucks given good to see thoughtful responses from the koreans | ||
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Ctesias
4595 Posts
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