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51507 Posts
![[image loading]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/10537353_601231506641440_8329275538550851017_n.png)
Hello, fans. Today, we have to say goodbye to Lee Sang-Jun from the member of Star2 team. We wish Lee Sang-Jun every success in all his future endeavors. Thank you for all your support and love for him. We, CJ ENTUS will always do our best to answer your expectation. Thank you. “Hello. This is  rare, Lee Sang-Jun.
Before I leave, I would like to thank all my fans for their ongoing support and love. I am sorry that I can no longer be with you fans and CJ ENTUS. Even though I leave, I will continue to support CJ ENTUS. Hope you would continue to support CJ ENTUS too. Thank you.”
Source: CJ ENTUS Facebook Page
I guess we know have official reasoning as to why he has been absent from Proleague as well as the Code A qualifier last week.
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Pulling a pigbaby perhaps?
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CJ falling apart after Maru crushed their play-off hopes.
Abandon ship! 
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awww too bad!
Good luck with whatever he ll be doing!
CJ hwaiting!
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I rarely ever saw that guy play.
Good luck!
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Looks like an older version of Rain
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Is it just me or is it becoming less rare that someone off his calibre would retire!
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dosent "retire" imply a career in that field?
I feel like 1/2 of the retirements announced within 2014 are on a level with EU Master rank 76 saying he is now retiring
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On July 08 2014 19:15 Mojito99 wrote:
dosent "retire" imply a career in that field?
I feel like 1/2 of the retirements announced within 2014 are on a level with EU Master rank 76 saying he is now retiring
You're welcome to show me an EU player good enough to make CJ's Proleague line-up, or indeed any EU player good enough to make Code A. Hint: there are none. rare is most likely better than the vast majority of EU players, and equating him with a "EU Master rank 76" player is insulting.
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On July 08 2014 19:45 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2014 19:15 Mojito99 wrote:
dosent "retire" imply a career in that field?
I feel like 1/2 of the retirements announced within 2014 are on a level with EU Master rank 76 saying he is now retiring You're welcome to show me an EU player good enough to make CJ's Proleague line-up, or indeed any EU player good enough to make Code A. Hint: there are none. rare is most likely better than the vast majority of EU players, and equating him with a "EU Master rank 76" player is insulting.
I somewhat agree with both statements...
A lot of ppl retiring are retiring in the same way we "retire" at the end of the day. We stop being awake and go to sleep by retiring, or at the end of our lives, we retire our bodies.
But they aren't retiring in a professional sense, which is the way we were used to hearing it initially.
rare is another case though. He is retiring in a professional sense. He's not a guy who's going to stop playing for fun. He might even keep playing SC2 consistantly for another few years, but he's not going to do it as a career anymore.
That's the difference, is that a lot of ppl, even if they were trying really hard, didn't actually DO sc2.... Not as a career anyways...
They played the game to have fun, maybe even on a competitive level, but it wasn't their JOB.
For rare it was.
So both statements are pretty accurate, yet misled.
I think that's a valid argument though. People need to not say they are "retiring" from something they didn't actually have a career in. It's cool to tell the community that you're not going to be active in the game you play, but it's on a different level than someone quitting their job..
GL to rare! Hope he accomplishes great things, even if he comes out of retirement and back into SC2!
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On July 08 2014 20:13 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2014 19:45 Zealously wrote:On July 08 2014 19:15 Mojito99 wrote:
dosent "retire" imply a career in that field?
I feel like 1/2 of the retirements announced within 2014 are on a level with EU Master rank 76 saying he is now retiring You're welcome to show me an EU player good enough to make CJ's Proleague line-up, or indeed any EU player good enough to make Code A. Hint: there are none. rare is most likely better than the vast majority of EU players, and equating him with a "EU Master rank 76" player is insulting. I somewhat agree with both statements... A lot of ppl retiring are retiring in the same way we "retire" at the end of the day. We stop being awake and go to sleep by retiring, or at the end of our lives, we retire our bodies. But they aren't retiring in a professional sense, which is the way we were used to hearing it initially. rare is another case though. He is retiring in a professional sense. He's not a guy who's going to stop playing for fun. He might even keep playing SC2 consistantly for another few years, but he's not going to do it as a career anymore. That's the difference, is that a lot of ppl, even if they were trying really hard, didn't actually DO sc2.... Not as a career anyways... They played the game to have fun, maybe even on a competitive level, but it wasn't their JOB. For rare it was. So both statements are pretty accurate, yet misled. I think that's a valid argument though. People need to not say they are "retiring" from something they didn't actually have a career in. It's cool to tell the community that you're not going to be active in the game you play, but it's on a different level than someone quitting their job.. GL to rare! Hope he accomplishes great things, even if he comes out of retirement and back into SC2!
agreed (=
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On July 08 2014 19:45 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2014 19:15 Mojito99 wrote:
dosent "retire" imply a career in that field?
I feel like 1/2 of the retirements announced within 2014 are on a level with EU Master rank 76 saying he is now retiring You're welcome to show me an EU player good enough to make CJ's Proleague line-up, or indeed any EU player good enough to make Code A. Hint: there are none. rare is most likely better than the vast majority of EU players, and equating him with a "EU Master rank 76" player is insulting.
u sounds mad
There are some EU players good enough to make Code A.
And what did rare ?
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Rare
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Rare
nothing.
So yes, rare who ?
User was warned for this post
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51507 Posts
rofl, i'd wager my life savings that a person of european nationality would not be able to qualify through the korean code a qualifiers in this modern era.
but this is a completely moot point and irrelevant to the discussion this topic was created for.
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On July 08 2014 19:15 Mojito99 wrote:
dosent "retire" imply a career in that field?
I feel like 1/2 of the retirements announced within 2014 are on a level with EU Master rank 76 saying he is now retiring
He's certainly not one of the more famous names in the community, but the fact that he was on a Korean pro-team should mean something to you and does mean something in the professional scene.
Best of luck to rare in the future!
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On July 08 2014 21:53 GTR wrote:
rofl, i'd wager my life savings that a person of european nationality would not be able to qualify through the korean code a qualifiers in this modern era.
but this is a completely moot point and irrelevant to the discussion this topic was created for.
You'd be wrong. Welmu, Mana etc etc
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On July 08 2014 22:04 Psychobabas wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2014 21:53 GTR wrote:
rofl, i'd wager my life savings that a person of european nationality would not be able to qualify through the korean code a qualifiers in this modern era.
but this is a completely moot point and irrelevant to the discussion this topic was created for. You'd be wrong. Welmu, Mana etc etc
You are aware of the fact that no foreigner in the history of ever has made it through the Code A qualifiers?
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On July 08 2014 22:04 Psychobabas wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2014 21:53 GTR wrote:
rofl, i'd wager my life savings that a person of european nationality would not be able to qualify through the korean code a qualifiers in this modern era.
but this is a completely moot point and irrelevant to the discussion this topic was created for. You'd be wrong. Welmu, Mana etc etc
Mana... And beyond that it doesn't matter who "might be capable" unless they do it.
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didn't HuK and naniwa also get throught code A quals?
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no they got a foreigner seed directly into the competition
also if you look at the list of top korean players who fail to qualify for code A you understand
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On July 08 2014 22:19 19Meavis93 wrote:
didn't HuK and naniwa also get throught code A quals?
nope
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On July 08 2014 19:15 Mojito99 wrote:
dosent "retire" imply a career in that field?
I feel like 1/2 of the retirements announced within 2014 are on a level with EU Master rank 76 saying he is now retiring
I think if someone is trying to do a carreer in SC2 it's ok to use the word "retire" even if they don't have any achievements.
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Aw man, he had some good games. Going afreeca perhaps?
Cheers!
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Russian Federation604 Posts
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On July 08 2014 22:15 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2014 22:04 Psychobabas wrote:On July 08 2014 21:53 GTR wrote:
rofl, i'd wager my life savings that a person of european nationality would not be able to qualify through the korean code a qualifiers in this modern era.
but this is a completely moot point and irrelevant to the discussion this topic was created for. You'd be wrong. Welmu, Mana etc etc You are aware of the fact that no foreigner in the history of ever has made it through the Code A qualifiers?
Liquid Jinro made it through, and Idra did i think, (not sure).
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Jinro and IdrA made it through on points in the 3 open GSL's, not the Code A qualifiers.
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who cares.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On July 08 2014 23:29 Jimmysc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2014 22:15 Zealously wrote:On July 08 2014 22:04 Psychobabas wrote:On July 08 2014 21:53 GTR wrote:
rofl, i'd wager my life savings that a person of european nationality would not be able to qualify through the korean code a qualifiers in this modern era.
but this is a completely moot point and irrelevant to the discussion this topic was created for. You'd be wrong. Welmu, Mana etc etc You are aware of the fact that no foreigner in the history of ever has made it through the Code A qualifiers? Liquid Jinro made it through, and Idra did i think, (not sure).
Those were GSL Opens. No one has made it once Code A was created and Yugioh was crowned king.
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On July 08 2014 22:15 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2014 22:04 Psychobabas wrote:On July 08 2014 21:53 GTR wrote:
rofl, i'd wager my life savings that a person of european nationality would not be able to qualify through the korean code a qualifiers in this modern era.
but this is a completely moot point and irrelevant to the discussion this topic was created for. You'd be wrong. Welmu, Mana etc etc You are aware of the fact that no foreigner in the history of ever has made it through the Code A qualifiers?
Because foreigner got enough skill to be seeded...
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guys, this isn't the place to discuss this. Go start a blog if you feel like it.
rare made a living out of being a SC2 player and he had a contract. He s now leaving the scene and therefore this thread is totally valid (of course you can argue that I have CJ as my fav team, but I hope you ll understand it is unrelated).
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United States23455 Posts
On July 09 2014 00:31 FreDMouL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2014 22:15 Zealously wrote:On July 08 2014 22:04 Psychobabas wrote:On July 08 2014 21:53 GTR wrote:
rofl, i'd wager my life savings that a person of european nationality would not be able to qualify through the korean code a qualifiers in this modern era.
but this is a completely moot point and irrelevant to the discussion this topic was created for. You'd be wrong. Welmu, Mana etc etc You are aware of the fact that no foreigner in the history of ever has made it through the Code A qualifiers? Because foreigner got enough skill to be seeded...
"enough skill" here means "were able to go to foreign tournaments that many Koreans could not go to and therefore got their charity seeds without going through the qualifiers"
Believe me it takes more "skill" to have gotten through the qualifiers then to have gotten one of those seeds from MLG or whatever
Of course best of luck to rare in the future.
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I think stephano after being eliminated in Ro32 managed to qualify back for next season, but declined and went back to europe.
Coming from ro32 he didn't go through the whole code A so I guess it doesn't really count?
And all of this was before Kespa took over, nowadays foreigners struggle to get to ro16 in AM/EU premier, no way one would go to ro32 code S...
Anyway, I don't see why people insult a guy they don't know, he was in CJ entus, he defeated DRG 2-0 in june, so he was a decent player, maybe not good enough to earn money, thus the retirement. No need to bash him for this.
If you don't care about the news then just don't answer the thread.
Anyway good luck to rare in whatever his life will be made of from now on
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On July 08 2014 22:15 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2014 22:04 Psychobabas wrote:On July 08 2014 21:53 GTR wrote:
rofl, i'd wager my life savings that a person of european nationality would not be able to qualify through the korean code a qualifiers in this modern era.
but this is a completely moot point and irrelevant to the discussion this topic was created for. You'd be wrong. Welmu, Mana etc etc You are aware of the fact that no foreigner in the history of ever has made it through the Code A qualifiers?
And why would they? Easier money in Homestory cup etc etc.
Anyway, off-topic no?
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On July 09 2014 08:30 Psychobabas wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2014 22:15 Zealously wrote:On July 08 2014 22:04 Psychobabas wrote:On July 08 2014 21:53 GTR wrote:
rofl, i'd wager my life savings that a person of european nationality would not be able to qualify through the korean code a qualifiers in this modern era.
but this is a completely moot point and irrelevant to the discussion this topic was created for. You'd be wrong. Welmu, Mana etc etc You are aware of the fact that no foreigner in the history of ever has made it through the Code A qualifiers? And why would they? Easier money in Homestory cup etc etc. Anyway, off-topic no?
Back in the day lots of foreigners did try. Now that playing in GSL locks you out of WCS AM/EU it's pointless.
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On July 08 2014 19:15 Mojito99 wrote:
dosent "retire" imply a career in that field?
I feel like 1/2 of the retirements announced within 2014 are on a level with EU Master rank 76 saying he is now retiring
Yes, he had a career. See that shirt with a CJ logo? Heard of Kespa? Playing profesionally for a Kespa team is a grand achievment and to say anything else (ie what you said) is misguided insulting.
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He'll be back, they always come back.
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Hopefully this opens up a spot for CJ to steal a player from SKT next year
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This means every CJ player minus GuMi is in code A. And GuMi is GuMi so it's okay. Wow!
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On July 09 2014 14:03 Redrot wrote:
This means every CJ player minus GuMi is in code A. And GuMi is GuMi so it's okay. Wow!
of course, we are not prime! (sorry that was easy, i could not help myself ^^)
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Haha this thread is nuts. Anyone who thinks even mid/low tier KeSPA A teamers are worse than EU superstars is absolutely out of their minds.
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On July 09 2014 22:44 Tenks wrote:
Haha this thread is nuts. Anyone who thinks even mid/low tier KeSPA A teamers are worse than EU superstars is absolutely out of their minds.
It's the NA effect
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On July 09 2014 22:44 Tenks wrote:
Haha this thread is nuts. Anyone who thinks even mid/low tier KeSPA A teamers are worse than EU superstars is absolutely out of their minds.
Yes they are. When even the A teamers or the guys who actually get to play in Proleague are struggling with foreigners. Two most recent - Kespa koreans - i remeber were Trap at MLG (where he lost even to mid tier foreigners) or Stork at HSC (who didnt even make it out of groups against foreigner). So dont tell me random guy named rare who barely made code A once is better than top tier foreigners who are consitently playing even against code S players.
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On July 09 2014 22:44 Tenks wrote:
Haha this thread is nuts. Anyone who thinks even mid/low tier KeSPA A teamers are worse than EU superstars is absolutely out of their minds.
The kespa hype is getting ridiculos. RorO is top 10 in PL and didn't make top 16 in his DH, losing to a foreigner. Stork Didn't make playoffs in HSC, losing to multiple foreigners. And those are guys, who have much better results than rare in PL. Ofc. he is better than his community reputation says, but putting him on the level of Voritx and co is laughable.
Ofc. the original comment, who caused this whole debate, was insulting and unneccessary, but comments like this are not that much better.
Using GSL qualifiers as a metric is also a pretty poor example, since barely noone ever travels intercontinental to attend a qualifier. It's like saying "No korean ever won spanish Spanish EPS, so Spain is definitly superior to korea". Just to clarify: I'm not thinking, that a foreigner is close in akill to korean topcalss (soO, Zest and co.), but just assuming every korean pro is better than every foreigner is insulting as well.
Finally, to say something at the topic: Best of luck to rare in his future endeavours.
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Stork lost to Snute, went 1-1 against Scarlett in HSC. Ultimately he lost the bo3 against Scarlett when it really mattered. Trap lost some pool matches (lets not forget the horrible times at MLG this last go around) then went on to win the tournament; taking out Scarlett in the process. Lets also say how MLG/HSC/DH formats aren't KeSPA's forte since the players are trained to play with the matchup already known a week ahead of time and they're doing it on the foreigner's home turf.
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Most progamers do not make THAT much money. If a foreigner looks at the possibility of qualifying for GSL, it does not make sense. You need to look at what your best chance of performing best in. This is so you can hopefully win some money and, more importantly, keep your contract and team.
1. The Code A qualifiers are ridiculously difficult. The competition is fierce.
2. Then you have to go through Code A and Code S, against players that are great at preparing for a single player on a designated map interval. Foreign tournaments do not really behave that way.
3. The GSL takes over two months from start to finish. That is a long time to be tied up in a single tournament. You really need to stay in Korea, get used to that environment. If you are in and out of Korea playing in other tournaments, you probably are not going to win a GSL.
4. You can argue on whether or not a foreigner can quality for Code A. Given they could quality, they would be hard pressed to beat the likes of Soulkey, Classic, Rain, True, SoO, Maru, etc.
5. If you win, you get over $60,0000. After that, the winnings drop of sharply. You can probably make the couple thousand lower ranked GSL players or more money in your home region, without the added difficulties previously mentioned. For Koreans, that is not the case. The competition is so fierce for them, it makes sense to spill over into EU and NA regions to have any hope of winning earnings. What chance do you think a foreigner has?
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On July 09 2014 23:28 Tenks wrote:
Stork lost to Snute, went 1-1 against Scarlett in HSC. Ultimately he lost the bo3 against Scarlett when it really mattered. Trap lost some pool matches (lets not forget the horrible times at MLG this last go around) then went on to win the tournament; taking out Scarlett in the process. Lets also say how MLG/HSC/DH formats aren't KeSPA's forte since the players are trained to play with the matchup already known a week ahead of time and they're doing it on the foreigner's home turf.
You just said we are out of our minds to consider foreigners to be on level of low tier (id almost say b-teamer since he played 5 games in proleague total and zero games this year) Kespa player. And now you are making excuses for mid tier regurals of proleague that its not their cup of tea to play in MLG or HSC. wow.
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To compare players you need a metric both competed in. If you would use PL, I could say the same about it being an environment on koreans home turf in a format that no foreigner trains for. Except for the fact, that ThorZaIN, who was far from his best shape during his PL time and not a top foreigner at that point, managed to get the same record as rare on rares home turf.
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On July 09 2014 01:50 Gwavajuice wrote:
I think stephano after being eliminated in Ro32 managed to qualify back for next season, but declined and went back to europe.
Coming from ro32 he didn't go through the whole code A so I guess it doesn't really count?
Stephano was seeded directly into Code S (I think he replaced Polt when Polt left Korea), lost in Ro32, lost his Code A match, but then made it out of the U&D Matches (he was in a 4-person group and advanced in second place after beating Lure aka Billowy and Trust). But then he left Korea and didn't play in WCS KR which started next season.
So that's certainly a decent performance but he did not make it through the qualifiers into Code A (though I do remember GSL casters multiple times mentioning foreigners who got to the finals of their Code A qualifier bracket but then lost, including Artosis sometime in 2011 IIRC).
Without getting into the silly talent debate, I will say there is some truth to the point that KeSPA (original KeSPA, not Prime/MVP/IM) B-teamers are scary. I would think Pigbaby illustrates this amply.
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On July 09 2014 23:03 Veriol wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 22:44 Tenks wrote:
Haha this thread is nuts. Anyone who thinks even mid/low tier KeSPA A teamers are worse than EU superstars is absolutely out of their minds. Yes they are. When even the A teamers or the guys who actually get to play in Proleague are struggling with foreigners. Two most recent - Kespa koreans - i remeber were Trap at MLG (where he lost even to mid tier foreigners) or Stork at HSC (who didnt even make it out of groups against foreigner). So dont tell me random guy named rare who barely made code A once is better than top tier foreigners who are consitently playing even against code S players.
Guys it's obvious that Koreans are not perfect, of course they lose to foreigners sometimes. They point most people is trying to do is that, to qualify for Code A, a foreigner must beat a string of Koreans who are preparing for those matches. That's not the same as beating ONE Korean who attends a foreign tournament, and plays in a settling he/she is not used to.
If you are going to cherrypick results like that, then I can present you Pigbaby's case: Kespa B-teamer who wasn't even good to get fielded in PL matches goes to WCS AM and beats not only foreigners, but foreigner-koreans as well.
Also I'd like to know who are those top tier foreigners who are consistently playing against Code S players???
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On July 10 2014 00:33 silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 23:03 Veriol wrote:On July 09 2014 22:44 Tenks wrote:
Haha this thread is nuts. Anyone who thinks even mid/low tier KeSPA A teamers are worse than EU superstars is absolutely out of their minds. Yes they are. When even the A teamers or the guys who actually get to play in Proleague are struggling with foreigners. Two most recent - Kespa koreans - i remeber were Trap at MLG (where he lost even to mid tier foreigners) or Stork at HSC (who didnt even make it out of groups against foreigner). So dont tell me random guy named rare who barely made code A once is better than top tier foreigners who are consitently playing even against code S players. Guys it's obvious that Koreans are not perfect, of course they lose to foreigners sometimes. They point most people is trying to do is that, to qualify for Code A, a foreigner must beat a string of Koreans who are preparing for those matches. That's not the same as beating ONE Korean who attends a foreign tournament, and plays in a settling he/she is not used to. If you are going to cherrypick results like that, then I can present you Pigbaby's case: Kespa B-teamer who wasn't even good to get fielded in PL matches goes to WCS AM and beats not only foreigners, but foreigner-koreans as well. Also I'd like to know who are those top tier foreigners who are consistently playing against Code S players???
Noone consistently plays against Code S players, those are usually sticking to Code S and are, as I said earlier, better than every foreigner on the planet. Rare is not a Code S player either, though. The examples, which were given, were not cherry-picking but rather just the latest participation of kespa players internationally and thus the freshest Data. Cherry picking would be ranting about Bbyong not being able to beat AbomB at IEM. If you are asking about top foreigners; an example would be Bunny, who just advanced from a qualifier, beating YoDa, Patinece, Sleep (2-0 in PL) and Armani in a bracket, where Stork, Solar, Reality and Hurrincane also played.
Ands since GSL qualifiers are apperently so important to showcase, that foreigners are inferior: Since the beginning of WCS (so in 2013/2014) the following players have tried to qualify for Code A:
State, Artosis, cArn, Baralai, Whiplash, MalditoKyo. Hardly something, you could call a proper foreign representation.
State, who is the non korean nr. 86 on aligulac, was only one round short of qualifying twice during that time, so don't tell me, that getting one round further suddenly makes you better than the top foreign class. Just compare rares qualifying run (Center, oDin, Brain) with what Scarlett did at MLG (Life, DRG, Ragnarok), Snute at Ultra invitational (Hyun, First) or Vortix at Vasacast invitational (MMA, Stardust, Jjakji).
Anyway, I'm sorry to rare, to discuss this in his retirement thread, I'll stop doing it now.
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EPT
