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Rollora
2450 Posts
I have another question that maybe has been answered but is bugging me since the Release of WoL: Is it on purpose that Blizzard doesn't want to change where the Addon is placed? It is always so annoying when I think about how I make a perfect walloff against things like Zergling/ or Roach/Baneling allin and then I spawn on the wrong side of the map and my addons are exosed or are the weak point or whatever. | ||
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Iron_
United States389 Posts
On July 08 2014 04:37 VArsovskiSC wrote: You really have to be biased to not admit that one.. Even Naniwa himself or Huk were losing10-15 like probes in a matter of seconds (say like 3-4 seconds before he realizes if "busy" in a fight) to drops I know there have been some responses to this already, but back to the main point, the only drop in the game that can do that kind of damage are banelings (rare) and .... wait for it.... wait for it..... Templar drops. And they don't take 5 seconds, they take 1.5 seconds to kill all the workers. And they unload almost instantly and cast the damage instantly. And the prism can warp in 10 zealots if it so pleases afterwards. Or DTs. I'm just growing tired of everybody trying to justify Terran suckage with "they have the best mid game"! Not sucking during a phase of the game doesn't equate to being good, at least not in my book. | ||
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Tempest636
United States15 Posts
That would increase possibilites for transition to more mech based units in TvP and it would allow for quicker production of widow mines + siege tanks to handle the mass baneling, thors to handle mass muta and tanks/thors to handle mass ultra (maybe). Though I really like Hider's suggestions above, kewl buff to Siege tank, ghost and nerf to pdd (plz god) | ||
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XiaoJoyce-
China2908 Posts
And give some bonus when viking transform to land. Then it is 100% an upgrade from Goliath . . And siege tank .. . let me think . . . . I cant tink of any.. Thor . . . it feels ridiculous to have Thor, so expensive.... to walk slow and unable to deal with Zerglings . . Give thor land splash dmg? Or increase Thor movespeed? That is all I can tink of . . . | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19295 Posts
On July 08 2014 11:42 XiaoJoyce- wrote: Why not allow Viking to be able to attack land units as well as air unit without needing to transform? And give some bonus when viking transform to land. Then it is 100% an upgrade from Goliath . . And siege tank .. . let me think . . . . I cant tink of any.. Thor . . . it feels ridiculous to have Thor, so expensive.... to walk slow and unable to deal with Zerglings . . Give thor land splash dmg? Or increase Thor movespeed? That is all I can tink of . . . Thor get have an upgrade ability to deal reflective damage to melee attacks when researched and triggered. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
Turn the Thor into a mobile fortress that Terran units can dance around. I'd love to see Medivacs carrying Thors to drop them right in front of infantry squads mid-, or right before, battle. | ||
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ritzia1
Canada95 Posts
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
On July 08 2014 10:58 Iron_ wrote: I know there have been some responses to this already, but back to the main point, the only drop in the game that can do that kind of damage are banelings (rare) and .... wait for it.... wait for it..... Templar drops. And they don't take 5 seconds, they take 1.5 seconds to kill all the workers. And they unload almost instantly and cast the damage instantly. And the prism can warp in 10 zealots if it so pleases afterwards. Or DTs. I'm just growing tired of everybody trying to justify Terran suckage with "they have the best mid game"! Not sucking during a phase of the game doesn't equate to being good, at least not in my book. Alright, alright - let me "iluminate" my point here.. I didn't try to "justify" Terran suckage, instead what I was trying to say was - if you buff Terran earlier than late-game - they'll snowball.. Hence WHY I'm against that Widow-Mine buff.. THAT was my point, not justifying Terran suckage.. But while we're at it - don't the Mine-drops do the same thing, hm ?, the point is - both mines and Templars cost GAS.. While Marine drops typically/usually cost a MULE and nothing more  So yes - I'm aware of what I'm talking about, and are you really that "certain" to debate on the topic "Are bio drops strong" and say no - ?, really ?, are you really gonna do that ? The fact that people got better at defending it (or that "dreaded" - the way Terrans describe it - Photon overcharge) does not reduce the strength of it if it happens, but makes that "one-way-ticket" for Terran which they don't like.. But yah - been saying all this time - a normal sane person would at least admit that Marine drops are too strong for opponent's non-Terran eco.. And if you "take away" some weakness of Terran - they'll be far too strong.. And that strength will not be in the "can be forseen" form (such as the Protoss is), but instead Terran can sit, mule, "risk" and lose a "MULE" (and by Mule I mean of a Marine drop) and still not suck at the main fight (if the buff was pre-lategame or the likes of buffing already most used units).. Well - that's too much yo But yes - once again - the point is - IF YOU BUFF TERRAN EARILER ON (such as that Widown-Mine change) - YOU RISK A SNOWBALL (and IMO as opposed to people playing only Terran think that's BAD for the game, and sucks HARD), and that's all | ||
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klup
France612 Posts
On July 08 2014 15:58 VArsovskiSC wrote: I didn't try to "justify" Terran suckage, instead what I was trying to say was - if you buff Terran earlier than late-game - they'll snowball.. Hence WHY I'm against that Widow-Mine buff.. THAT was my point, not justifying Terran suckage.. But while we're at it - don't the Mine-drops do the same thing, hm ?, the point is - both mines and Templars cost GAS.. While Marine drops typically/usually cost a MULE and nothing more Last time I checked to drop you need a medivac that cost gas. Just sayin'. | ||
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
On July 08 2014 16:18 klup wrote: Last time I checked to drop you need a medivac that cost gas. Just sayin'. That's why you have that "thruster" don't you, to make sure you don't lose the Medivac.. Also - since even I (a sucky Silver-league player) can do those drops, do damage, get out, there's something about them not being a problem to execute, right ? True that they're not "set & forget" thing, but they surely won't cost gas if you're careful "at least somewhat" | ||
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batatm
Israel116 Posts
While he wasn't the only one to adress the right issues, Snute was the only one that made any sense at all in his ideas, and he is ZERG! | ||
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zimms
Austria561 Posts
On July 08 2014 16:21 VArsovskiSC wrote: [...] Also - since even I (a sucky Silver-league player) can do those drops, do damage, get out, there's something about them not being a problem to execute, right ? [... If you are Silver so is your opponent I suppose. Try to drop someone who is aware of the minimap, feedbacks your Medivacs and pulls his/her probes. Yes, in lower leagues, a single drop could win you the game. This gets less frequent the better both players are. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9405 Posts
I didn't try to "justify" Terran suckage, instead what I was trying to say was - if you buff Terran earlier than late-game - they'll snowball.. Hence WHY I'm against that Widow-Mine buff.. THAT was my point, not justifying Terran suckage.. But while we're at it - don't the Mine-drops do the same thing, hm ?, the point is - both mines and Templars cost GAS.. While Marine drops typically/usually cost a MULE and nothing more No this is a very deceiving way of presenting it. If Zerg is getting his signifcant advantage during the midgame (getting a great creep spread, multiple bases and maxing out fast), then a midgame buff to terran will simply reduce the assymetry and make the game more equal going into the midgame --> Less snowbally. Your logic would be true if terran already were dominating midgame totally, but they simply aren't. Instead, a lot of terrans gets behind in the proces of trying to clear up creep/pressuring 4th/5th. Now if instead, they could clear up creep and escape behind stronger Widow Mines, you would have a much more even matchup going into the lategame. Were you watching TvZ between September-November? Games were really really back-and-fourth and it was considered the best matchup in the game. I simply cannot phantom why anyone who watched TvZ's during this period of the game would fear that it would make the TvZ matchup more snowbally as that logic simply goes directly against real world observations. Also, please be aware the Widow Mine vs zerg isn't an early game unit, but a midgame unit (unlike the Hellbat) | ||
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gneGne
Netherlands697 Posts
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Hassan_RO
Romania77 Posts
Terran midgame is FINE, medivac drops are FINE! Buffing this one thing only shows Blizzard balance team's lack of ideas. You have no clue how to fix the game with something new (or no courage to go sit down with de design team and create something that balances things out), so you just buff whatever the players found that works well against other races. But the problem doesn't lie there, it is in two very clear factors which have been mentioned here, in the ZvPcraft thread and in many other places. I list them below with my own ideas of how to fix: 1) The complete lack of diverse openers --> PLEASE give us some more diversity of early harrassment options. Now, there's the all-famed marine drops, and what else?! Give us something equivalent to an Oracle or fast DTs (buff banshee speed, go back on the cloak cost idea, or maybe make banshees 1shot workers like DTs do?!). Give us some additional use for mines in the early game (the last mine nerf was indeed too hard!). --> Make some use of the reaper for harassing workers, instead of just a glorified scout! make him faster speed, or regen faster, so he doesnt get shot down asap by any 1-2 stalkers or 1-2 queens. --> PLEASE make siege tanks USEABLE again in the early and late game....maybe buff damage, lower siege mode cast time.....do something because we cannot fight banelings at 1:1 with marines, it DOES NOT WORK! --> PLEASE give us some kind of time warp or early static defense able to discourage this blink-all-in-craziness ! --> PLEASE make us not have to blind-counter almost every game with ebay and turrets when toss is doing something else (see ZvPcraft post) or give us a threat that makes them do a similar action. 2) Terran absolute death in the lategame. --> PLEASE give us some kind of meaningful mech composition that doesn't miserably fail. I have seen hellions (and Hellbats too) getting destroyed by ZEALOTS, the unit they naturally counter! Also, give me a mech unit that can 3-shot an immortal or a collossus, the way immortals do to my tanks or collossus do to my bio. And if you can give that unit a hardened shield making it immune to collossus fire, i appeciate it! --> PLEASE make the battlecruiser useable in TvP! Give him some hardened armor (at least upgrade), so that he's actually a tier 3.5 unit, countered ONLY BY SPECIALIZED UNITS voidrays/vikings/corruptors, not by blinking stalkers tier 1 unit. --> PLEASE make the Thor actually useable lategame against protoss and zerg, and, like someone above said, make him less squishy and/or more mobile! I really want to know, on a lategame scenario where there are 3-4-5 bases and fighting going all around, how am i going to use this one clunky extremely slow-moving unit to any effect, when my opponent can just blink/run away until he has the perfect concave/position or just throw armies of 200/200 roaches at me focusing until the thors are dead and he's still reproducing roaches at the same speed while i'm waiting on the build time then the sloooow march time across the map?!?! --> PLEASE give me a spellcaster that can actually hurt ALL the meaningful enemy units in the mid-late game, similar to the templar. One storm hurts marines, marauders, medivacs, hellbats and tanks quite badly, while raven missle dmg is much too low atm even for basic units like marauders and zerglings/hydras, let's not mention stalkers, collossi, even zealots or archons just LOL at it. OK maybe it is useable against mutalisk cloud, but why should it be completely useless in TvP? Storm hits mutas just as hard as my bioball....one toss can defend a 3rd or 4th base from mutas with 2 templars and a handful of warpin stalkers!! Like some of the above posters i am not very high in league, but i watch alot of streams and tournaments and it's obvious that there is something wrong with the game, especially against Terrans. I agree that it is eerily similar to the GGLord Infestor era, and something needs to change. EDIT: Also, a major problem is the "timeclock" that everyone seems mentioning. If a terran cannot close the game within X minutes he's dead. | ||
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tyranolol
17 Posts
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evilcommiedictator
Australia13 Posts
Either that, or just bloody blink Battlecruisers. lol. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 08 2014 17:40 Hider wrote: No this is a very deceiving way of presenting it. If Zerg is getting his signifcant advantage during the midgame (getting a great creep spread, multiple bases and maxing out fast), then a midgame buff to terran will simply reduce the assymetry and make the game more equal going into the midgame --> Less snowbally. Your logic would be true if terran already were dominating midgame totally, but they simply aren't. Instead, a lot of terrans gets behind in the proces of trying to clear up creep/pressuring 4th/5th. Now if instead, they could clear up creep and escape behind stronger Widow Mines, you would have a much more even matchup going into the lategame. Were you watching TvZ between September-November? Games were really really back-and-fourth and it was considered the best matchup in the game. I simply cannot phantom why anyone who watched TvZ's during this period of the game would fear that it would make the TvZ matchup more snowbally as that logic simply goes directly against real world observations. Also, please be aware the Widow Mine vs zerg isn't an early game unit, but a midgame unit (unlike the Hellbat) Ehmmm, hmmm.. how to write it... you know, there is a MU called TvP, where mine drops from early stages of HotS caused a lost game early on. Basically if it wasn't hellbat drop it was a mine drop. There were some DH(?) games, where this kind of drop basically ended the game with 10+ probes dead. It's like the opposite of oracle but just drop, burrow and forget... which is wrong. Buffing early/midgame T in TvZ means buffing it in TvP where midgame isn't problem(IMO), problem is scouting in early game and playing lategame. ________ I think the biggest problem is medevac. Why? Because it takes long to get there. You want to fix earlygame TvP and basically many problems in TvP - RETURN medic! Then you can just laugh at PO with few units because you have fast healing unit from barracks. BAM! Early aggression solved, early greed from protoss solved. Barracks with techlab is laughable price ,-) Also now the drops are weaker(?), because you cannot load so much combat units, so you can buff(!!!) bio to address TvZ problems without affecting TvP so much. And as a bonus, the splash damage from protoss is reduced! How? because there are medics in the army, your combat units aren't so clumped, also medics run through your army, so it creates more "smaller" groups(think about it as a auto split in a way), so splash to combat units is reduced. And because you cannot so clump your units -> smaller DPS -> you can buff terran without any hesitations ,-) Also - medics are harder to feedback, 'cause they are tiny, therefore GHOST is harder to feedback, because bio has many mana bars now and ghosts are harder to target(in fact lategame buff with just addition of a unit). Also, drops are now HARDER!!! to defend, because feedback(dropships doesn't heal, why mana?), but drops are weaker, so ... no problem?(maybe my suggestion to buff bio is wrong when I read this line  )Medic behavior was observed in a Wings of Liberty campaign, I am taking this from there. So - I think the biggest problem is medevac right now and reverting back to medics would made the game better. From that you can buff some unit to address the TvZ, maybe some flying caster INSTEAD of medevacs? Raven redesign, return of Science weasel(and yeah, this is not a mistake dear terrans, I really typed weasel )...Although I know this never happen, I wish, as a Protoss player myself(I do play random from time to time, BTW), to see medics back. And I hope for it in LotV. Your thoughts? | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
For instance, in the TvZ match-up the zerg has three 'strategic assets' to use as a stepping stone to a decisive advantage: economy, mutalisk numbers and creep spread. These can not be left unchecked, and force action, which actually contributes to the parade push style some people love. | ||
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p14c
Vatican City State431 Posts
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