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On July 02 2014 16:21 imrusty269 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 12:46 Darthsanta13 wrote:On July 02 2014 08:23 eightym wrote:On July 01 2014 18:44 Maenander wrote:
It's hardly surprising that top players know the weaknesses of their own race and can execute all-ins with other races against their own race that are highly successful. There have been examples of that even in SC-BW. Scarlet switches to protoss and beats DRG Classic switches to protoss and beats GSL
When was the last time someone with a brain switched to terran? And it only took him 16 months to win GSL after he switched, I bet he barely even knows the keybinds for protoss with that little practice. And if he used that 16 months to practice more terran, he would still be in code B. But I guess it is easier to ignore the ovvious.
Yah, because you know that for a fact. lol.
Some people are just better at X race than Y race and when they switch they end up doing better. Perhaps standard BW Terran plays more similar to Standard SC2 Protoss than Terran, so switching to Protoss matched up better with him.
I hope you're not one of those idiots who says garbage like, "lol i bet you couldnt make diamond if you switched to terran"
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Watched the game... have to agree with most of the negative comments here. It might be not a problem with protoss in general though (ok without warpin this would be impossible). The problem is that sc2 is mostly won by build orders not by micro and macro. Scarlett just perfectly executed an allin cheese that was unscouted.
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On July 02 2014 16:39 TaShadan wrote:
Watched the game... have to agree with most of the negative comments here. It might be not a problem with protoss in general though (ok without warpin this would be impossible). The problem is that sc2 is mostly won by build orders not by micro and macro. Scarlett just perfectly executed an allin cheese that was unscouted.
I wouldn't say that this game reveals a "problem" with SC2. The way I see it is if you don't scout your opponent and then lose to an allin because you had no idea it was coming and had almost no defense (spines) or safety (ling speed/roach warren) prepared then there's nothing wrong with that. The fact that Scarlett switched to Protoss really isn't a big deal and doesn't prove anything about how difficult the race is overall. People are saying she had practised that build a bit on people? In any case it's not like it was her first game of Protoss ever and she just made something up on the spot, plus she has pro level mechanics, so of course she's gonna be able to execute a basic allin (literally the most basic type of Protoss allin).
A Terran or Protoss player with some Zerg experience could execute an equivalent... like a roach/ling, ling/bane or roach/bane allin... whether it worked or not would be up to the opponents build and scouting.
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The problem is that in the deciding match (0:1 behind, loser bracket), Scarlett decided win chances would be HIGHER with protoss against DRG than with her main race.
So yes, any race switcher CAN win against anyone with anything.
A problem arises when a pro player decides win chances are higher with his offrace.
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I think that choosing to offrace isn't necessarily a balance statement when you're playing a mirror matchup.
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On July 02 2014 17:12 Mahtasooma wrote:
The problem is that in the deciding match (0:1 behind, loser bracket), Scarlett decided win chances would be HIGHER with protoss against DRG than with her main race.
So yes, any race switcher CAN win against anyone with anything.
A problem arises when a pro player decides win chances are higher with his offrace.
Why is that a problem? Is the problem that Scarlett thinks that Protoss allins are better against Zerg than Zerg allins, or that she thought DRG's chances of fucking up against a Protoss allin was more likely than him fucking up a game of ZvZ (beit macro or allin).
The fact that it's her offrace doesn't change the fact that it's an easily executable allin. It's not like she switched to Protoss, picked alterzhim and went skytoss.
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On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote:
Exciting.
But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore.
When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place...
There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated.
DRG it is not anymore a Top zerg player. And if the zerg player dont scout it is his fail. I play zerg and you see this Buld in gold and dimond league in 80% of all games. If you dont scout it your fail.
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She mindgamed DRG. I think DRG did expect the all-in. He probably also expected her all-in to be not that (off-race), so he thought: "I can play greedy and still hold off her all-in, win-win for me." We've seen greedy builds hold off all-ins plenty of times, against players using their main race, so why not here? She made him underestimate her.
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I don't see why people are making such a big deal about this. Why not just appreciate it for what it is?
The only reason this is even receiving attention is because it was Scarlett and it was on the mainstage. If some random NA GM had done this in the open bracket to take a game off DRG, noone would care. And Scarlett can probably execute this just as well, if not better than your average NA GM Protoss.
As already stated, any pro could execute an effective all-in offrace with a little practice. In fact, some Korean pros have even reached GM on their own server playing offrace. If she had won a super standard 25 minute PvZ macro game instead then it would be more remarkable, but still not really prove anything. If you somehow made a rule that all Koreans had to offrace at a tournament like Homestory Cup and gave them a couple of weeks to practice, I think you'd be surprised at how many would still make the quarterfinals or better.
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GG by Scarlett, poorly played by DRG so he got owned. I don't know why people on here is bashing on protoss like it is an OP race.
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On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote:
Exciting.
But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore.
When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place...
There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated.
Yeah slow lings is the perfect respond to this.
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On July 02 2014 16:21 imrusty269 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 12:46 Darthsanta13 wrote:On July 02 2014 08:23 eightym wrote:On July 01 2014 18:44 Maenander wrote:
It's hardly surprising that top players know the weaknesses of their own race and can execute all-ins with other races against their own race that are highly successful. There have been examples of that even in SC-BW. Scarlet switches to protoss and beats DRG Classic switches to protoss and beats GSL
When was the last time someone with a brain switched to terran? And it only took him 16 months to win GSL after he switched, I bet he barely even knows the keybinds for protoss with that little practice. And if he used that 16 months to practice more terran, he would still be in code B. But I guess it is easier to ignore the ovvious.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/436895-sjow-switches-race-to-protoss
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On July 02 2014 18:13 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 16:21 imrusty269 wrote:On July 02 2014 12:46 Darthsanta13 wrote:On July 02 2014 08:23 eightym wrote:On July 01 2014 18:44 Maenander wrote:
It's hardly surprising that top players know the weaknesses of their own race and can execute all-ins with other races against their own race that are highly successful. There have been examples of that even in SC-BW. Scarlet switches to protoss and beats DRG Classic switches to protoss and beats GSL
When was the last time someone with a brain switched to terran? And it only took him 16 months to win GSL after he switched, I bet he barely even knows the keybinds for protoss with that little practice. And if he used that 16 months to practice more terran, he would still be in code B. But I guess it is easier to ignore the ovvious. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/436895-sjow-switches-race-to-protoss
Well he wasn't that good with terran either at that time, so he could have switched to any race with the same result imo.
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On July 01 2014 18:44 Maenander wrote:
It's hardly surprising that top players know the weaknesses of their own race and can execute all-ins with other races against their own race that are highly successful. There have been examples of that even in SC-BW.
Yes but not quite as significantly as in sc2 period. But I must not talk about it anymore otherwise I'd sound like another supposedly crybaby zerg. This is the main reason I'm playing way less than before. If not at all.
On July 01 2014 23:27 purakushi wrote:
Anybody can beat anybody in SC2. It just can happen way more with Protoss. It is more of a failure of design rather than balance.
This is.exactly what I wanted to say. But the blizzards crew are getting seriously lazy lately. I'm not even sure I'd want to buy their next expansion because they will go like "omg so many new stuffs and also op stuff for X race" when they will just convert it back after a while and it'll probably go like hots. Aka fucking boring useless swarm hosts. They dont even deserve the name "swarm" ffs.
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On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote:
Exciting.
But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore.
When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place...
There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated.
What? DRG messed up literally everything, lol. That's why he lost.
This was so awesome, btw. Sick move by Scarlett.
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On July 01 2014 20:08 ZenithM wrote:
I'm waiting for when people race pick Terran to snipe top Koreans.
I know a nasty reaper expand snipe build, don't hesitate to ask me for pro-tips.
I was about to say, the day we see a foreign zerg or protoss offrace pick terran and beat a top korean with it will never happen lol.
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Awesome. Just pure awesome.
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hahahaha players would pick protoss to win games LOL
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On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote:
Exciting.
But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore.
When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place...
There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated.
It baffles my how some people look at this game. If anything that is people like quoted idiot who may cause this game to die.
Here we had an awesome situation where great, talented, professional foreign player ("foreign noob" for Korean's cocksucking apologists) makes a tricky move, switch races and wins against his opponent. It was really tricky nad unexpected move - really awesome for spectator like me. Yet, instead of appreciate skill of Scarlett we hear those Korean's lovers screaming "Imbalance" all over the place. For them it is unimaginable that foreigner wins against Korean god with unexpected strategy - "If it happens it must be somethin wrong with game, not with my Korean god!!!"
Get fucking real.
P.S. Great job Scarlett, that was awesome. As a former SC2 player player, and casual spectator these days I am amazed by your win, it was great and really funny to watch. You proved again that you are the best foreign player. Well done!
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On July 02 2014 08:23 eightym wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 18:44 Maenander wrote:
It's hardly surprising that top players know the weaknesses of their own race and can execute all-ins with other races against their own race that are highly successful. There have been examples of that even in SC-BW. Scarlet switches to protoss and beats DRG Classic switches to protoss and beats GSL When was the last time someone with a brain switched to terran?
Gumiho!:D
And snow!
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EPT
