EPTI was in the audience when Scarlett played protoss vs DRG at MLG Anaheim, and I filmed the whole game and it was quite the experience. Sorry for the bad camera work, but I was pretty excited and trying to watch the game at the same time.
Scarlett as toss vs DRG audience POV
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LastManProductions
United States252 Posts
I was in the audience when Scarlett played protoss vs DRG at MLG Anaheim, and I filmed the whole game and it was quite the experience. Sorry for the bad camera work, but I was pretty excited and trying to watch the game at the same time. | ||
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Mahtasooma
Germany475 Posts
But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. | ||
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Lumi
United States1612 Posts
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. Come out and say what you mean. Protoss OP vs Zerg? If you scout and react properly, you will come out ahead. I don't think THAT can be debated. Sick POV. | ||
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theBALLS
Singapore2935 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. Such a crybaby. One such incident and I literally cannot play this game anymore DRG reacted wrongly. Period. | ||
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Mahtasooma
Germany475 Posts
I mean the fight was going on for a few minutes and his micro didn't slip... it wasn't just Scarlett walked in there and it was like "oopsie, DRG overdroned without defense, gg" | ||
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BlueStar
Bulgaria1162 Posts
No scout, no gain... period | ||
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Glioburd
France1911 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. I lost all respect for this game long time ago. When you see Naniwa or Dayshi beating Jaedong, a win in offrace is nothing. We know that is not a game based on skill, simply on timing and reaction. Scarlett won the shifumi, but I'm happy for her  | ||
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hellokitty[hk]
United States1309 Posts
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Scarlett`
China2376 Posts
On July 01 2014 17:24 hellokitty[hk] wrote: I uninstall sc2, brb. RIP | ||
lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
how does it feel to be a dirty protoss | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
How much do you practice Protoss? How much of your soul has been forfeit to Aiur? | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
Sickening race. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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ratty
New Zealand275 Posts
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kottbullar
Australia489 Posts
On July 01 2014 17:22 Glioburd wrote: Thanks for the video. These point of views from the audience are always fun to watch. I lost all respect for this game long time ago. When you see Naniwa or Dayshi beating Jaedong, a win in offrace is nothing. We know that is not a game based on skill, simply on timing and reaction. Scarlett won the shifumi, but I'm happy for her Come on, overrating korean is just as bad if not worse than overhyping foreigners. Check out this interview from DRG during his prime when he himself admitted he's not likely to win vs Scarlett without bo advantage. interview | ||
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Mahtasooma
Germany475 Posts
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Mojito99
Germany154 Posts
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On July 01 2014 18:01 Saechiis wrote: How much do you practice Protoss? How much of your soul has been forfeit to Aiur? Doesn't work like that. Its not a question of "how much". Either you submit yourself to the Khala or you don't. All or nothing. Unless, of course, you take the path of InCa and throw your lot in with the Nerazim.  | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
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Maenander
Germany4926 Posts
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tar
Germany991 Posts
On the match, DRG did not scout and got punished. Also, he was on less wokers than Scarlett which is not a very comfortable position to be in as a Zerg trying to hold the continuous onslaught of Protoss units | ||
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Anacreor
Netherlands291 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. It's a one time thing man. This is unique and you should enjoy it, instead of turning it into an argument. And with that, Scarlett's toss is GM level. Meaning that if she catches DRG offguard both mentally and ingame, she stands a chance. Which is what happened! Crazy, I love it! :D | ||
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iloveav
Poland1478 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. Its not that strange. When you play at a very high level you normally practiced all 3 races enought to understand them correctly. I actually did the same thing in broodwar once vs a player who was far better than me and won vs him because he had no idea what to expect. That beeing said, DRG dind scout that build at all. When he did know he was only capable of going ling/queen, and thats not exactly perfect. Its a great thing to do on stage, and it does feel cool to watch it (I actually scremed at home when i saw the win) but its not something as big as some crazy comebacks or similar. | ||
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DeadByDawn
United Kingdom476 Posts
There are other threads dealing with Protoss OP'ness, take your complaints there you will find many a sympathetic ear. | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
Also: TH000. Granted, SC2 is a different game, but offracing and winning shouldn't be that shocking. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24326 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
I know a nasty reaper expand snipe build, don't hesitate to ask me for pro-tips. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On July 01 2014 19:58 Wombat_NI wrote: Such an enjoyable moment, that said I'd wager it's easier to do this with Protoss than the other races. Not really sure what DRG was thinking though, he scouted the one gas and there are few builds bar naked gateway allins that you do from there. He didn't get to scout the natural iirc, so he didn't know whether there was gasses taken there. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
go scarlett | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24326 Posts
On July 01 2014 20:11 Saechiis wrote: He didn't get to scout the natural iirc, so he didn't know whether there was gasses taken there. I might rewatch it now actually, as that's perhaps what happened and would go a way to explaining DRG's sub-optimal response | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On July 01 2014 17:06 Mahtasooma wrote: If you could shed some light on that as to how he reacted improperly? I mean the fight was going on for a few minutes and his micro didn't slip... it wasn't just Scarlett walked in there and it was like "oopsie, DRG overdroned without defense, gg" What league are you not to know that lings don't hold a 6-7 gate? You need a roach warren and he did not have it. I play Z by the way, just to say I am not a protoss. | ||
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HaRuHi
1220 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. This does not need to be debated, if what you were saying is true, then this build could not be stopped by zerg and protoss had a 100% winrate in that matchup. DRG did not play perfectly. | ||
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Amazonic
Sweden239 Posts
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xtorn
4060 Posts
On July 01 2014 18:43 Tuczniak wrote: Did Scarlett at least apologize for playing that race? Why exactly should she apologize ?! She is a pro that can learn a race in a fraction of the time it takes for others to learn, and she proved it. She owes apologies to no one. Good vid. Scarlett wrote history that day, every sc2 player and their mother is grateful for it. | ||
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Haku
Germany550 Posts
Rip in Peperoni BtT, i don´t think that Protoss is imbalanced just because Scarlett offraced a game and beat DRG. You have to keep some things in mind. First DRG isn´t in his best condition lately so you can´t just call him a former GSL Champion who got beaten by a foreign scrub. Scarlett is playing pretty well atm. The other thing is, i think Scarlett could not have won a macro game vs DRG. Practicing a build on a high level like Scarlett is, isn´t that big, doesn´t matter which race you play. If she just practiced the BO 40 times it does not take that long and is super hard to do. The last thing in my opinion is that DRG also did not reacted 100% perfect and everything together makes a win for Scarlett. | ||
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Xinzoe
Korea (South)2373 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. in bo1 offrace anything can happen. even if its a platinum league vs GSL champion not to mention almost every progamer can off race at a low GM level anyway. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://s3.postimg.org/wm23fylab/scarlett.png) | ||
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antiRW
United Kingdom117 Posts
On July 01 2014 21:21 xtorn wrote: Why exactly should she apologize ?! She is a pro that can learn a race in a fraction of the time it takes for others to learn, and she proved it. She owes apologies to no one. Good vid. Scarlett wrote history that day, every sc2 player and their mother is grateful for it. Relax. That was just some friendly banter. | ||
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
On July 01 2014 20:58 HaRuHi wrote: This does not need to be debated, if what you were saying is true, then this build could not be stopped by zerg and protoss had a 100% winrate in that matchup. DRG did not play perfectly. I think the argument was not that it is unstoppable but that it is too easy to execute. Imo protoss all-ins are way too easy to execute and way too hard to hold (probably therefore nexus cannon was beneficial for pvp matchup). | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44023 Posts
On July 01 2014 17:22 Glioburd wrote: Thanks for the video. These point of views from the audience are always fun to watch. I lost all respect for this game long time ago. When you see Naniwa or Dayshi beating Jaedong, a win in offrace is nothing. We know that is not a game based on skill, simply on timing and reaction. Scarlett won the shifumi, but I'm happy for her Naniwa was one of the best foreigners in SC2,and Jaedong had notoriously tenuous ZvP o.O Anyways, congratulations to Scarlett for outplaying DRG that series | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On July 01 2014 17:24 hellokitty[hk] wrote: I uninstall sc2, brb. LOL wow. | ||
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
On July 01 2014 18:44 Maenander wrote: It's hardly surprising that top players know the weaknesses of their own race and can execute all-ins with other races against their own race that are highly successful. There have been examples of that even in SC-BW. The only example I can think of was Savior playing as Terran against Zerg a lot in practice and trying it in once live match and getting horribly destroyed. | ||
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hellokitty[hk]
United States1309 Posts
Back. I reinstall so I can uninstall again, brb. BTW 10/10 would recommend, felt really good. | ||
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xtorn
4060 Posts
On July 01 2014 21:52 hellokitty[hk] wrote: Back. I reinstall so I can uninstall again, brb. BTW 10/10 would recommend, felt really good. So technically the maximum satisfaction and pleasure would be: Get home Play ladder Uninstall sc2 Reinstall overnight Repeat next day ? I see a business opportunity "we reinstall your sc2 daily so you can uninstall for guaranteed satisfaction, call us 555uninstall" | ||
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. DRG reacted wrong | ||
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SocialFox
Russian Federation16 Posts
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purakushi
United States3300 Posts
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Jer99
Canada8157 Posts
Very very wrongly | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. OBVIOUSLY, he did not react correctly. Or he'd have won. | ||
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Thyrym
89 Posts
Clearly protoss OP [/kappa} User was warned for this post | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
happy Canada day | ||
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Iodem
United States1173 Posts
why bring balance into the picture at all? | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
Just think about it objectively. Scarlett is obviously not a protoss player, what possible strategy could a relatively inexperienced player do that could be successful as protoss? Something that does not require an intimate knowledge of a race and its capabilities? There is only one answer, an all-in or some kind of early timing attack. For some reason DRG thought otherwise, he played greedy, and left himself susceptible to an early timing attack, probably the *only* type of attack that Scarlett could ever hope to master. It was a really poor decision; in hindsight this is literally the only thing DRG should have been preparing for, and he could have easily won a macro game if he played safely. I wouldn't blame the game on this one, I think DRG just underestimated Scarlett and assumed he could win being greedy | ||
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kiralykobra
Romania7 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24579 Posts
Plus Jaedong sux. | ||
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Obeast96
United States106 Posts
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On July 01 2014 21:46 neobowman wrote: The only example I can think of was Savior playing as Terran against Zerg a lot in practice and trying it in once live match and getting horribly destroyed. Wasn't race switching disallowed for the last couple of years in Kespa tournaments? BTW, if Zerg Royal was a map in individual tournaments I think Flash would have had more chance to beat Jaedong on it with Zerg than with Terran. | ||
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Redrot
United States446 Posts
rip in pepperonis mate | ||
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On July 01 2014 21:21 xtorn wrote: Why exactly should she apologize ?! She is a pro that can learn a race in a fraction of the time it takes for others to learn, and she proved it. She owes apologies to no one. Good vid. Scarlett wrote history that day, every sc2 player and their mother is grateful for it. el oh el how can't you get the reference? you're not into starcraft if you didn't get that | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13967 Posts
Hey! we take showers every week thank you very much! | ||
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Dubba
Finland15 Posts
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urasyupi2
United States810 Posts
Honestly, most pros should be capable of executing an 8 minute all in at any race with a degree of practice. Couple that with DRG's lack of scouting information (as far as his vision was concerned, he saw Scarlett's lack of a 2nd gas at the MAIN, a gateway, and a cybernetics core, he didn't know ANYTHING about what was going on in the natural) so it's not terribly shocking. Still entertaining as hell and really happy for Scarlett that it worked out. | ||
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-HuShang-
Canada393 Posts
On July 02 2014 07:17 urasyupi2 wrote: Couple that with DRG's lack of scouting information (as far as his vision was concerned, he saw Scarlett's lack of a 2nd gas at the MAIN, a gateway, and a cybernetics core, he didn't know ANYTHING about what was going on in the natural) so it's not terribly shocking. Still entertaining as hell and really happy for Scarlett that it worked out. Actually that's pretty much all he needed to know, there arent any other builds you can do off 1 gas. Being able to execute an all in using any race should be pretty easy for any pro player; I agree with that. I'm not sure why DRG even bothered trying to be so greedy. If he got into any sort of macro game vs scarlett im sure he would have won. | ||
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Dr.Sin
Canada1126 Posts
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eightym
United States76 Posts
On July 01 2014 18:44 Maenander wrote: It's hardly surprising that top players know the weaknesses of their own race and can execute all-ins with other races against their own race that are highly successful. There have been examples of that even in SC-BW. Scarlet switches to protoss and beats DRG Classic switches to protoss and beats GSL When was the last time someone with a brain switched to terran? | ||
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
On July 02 2014 07:19 -HuShang- wrote: Actually that's pretty much all he needed to know, there arent any other builds you can do off 1 gas. Being able to execute an all in using any race should be pretty easy for any pro player; I agree with that. I'm not sure why DRG even bothered trying to be so greedy. If he got into any sort of macro game vs scarlett im sure he would have won. cutting drones at 29 isn't greedy you're saying don't go gasless right | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. This attitude is what made me lose respect for the game. | ||
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klipik12
United States241 Posts
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DnCL
86 Posts
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sick_transit
United States195 Posts
There's a lot of silliness in this thread. Post-match Scarlett said this was a specific build/plan she developed for this map and this player (DRG), not just a spur of the moment "let's play protoss herp derp" decision. Go Scarlett! | ||
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
On July 02 2014 08:35 Duka08 wrote: This attitude is what made me lose respect for the game. Don't lose respect for the game... lose respect for the pathetic whiners. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10665 Posts
On July 02 2014 08:40 klipik12 wrote: I feel like it's impossible to read a thread lately without t it making me depressed. Does everyone always HAVE to complain about something? Actually yes, it is absolutely necessary when posting on internet forums(especially TL's starcraft2 forums) to complain about something, you HAVE to as an average human being, just complain instead of really try to understand the situation. | ||
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Darthsanta13
United States564 Posts
On July 02 2014 08:23 eightym wrote: Scarlet switches to protoss and beats DRG Classic switches to protoss and beats GSL When was the last time someone with a brain switched to terran? And it only took him 16 months to win GSL after he switched, I bet he barely even knows the keybinds for protoss with that little practice. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
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MagnuMizer
Denmark384 Posts
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
On July 02 2014 14:03 Incognoto wrote: Maybe Classic is actually just a genuinely good player. Naw. Wake up and smell the coffee man. Listen to LR threads. People only win SC2 from their opponent making more mistakes than them ... so by extension players only win GSL titles by being very lucky against a series of players who just happen to be making big mistakes allowing them to win. | ||
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
On July 02 2014 14:20 CursOr wrote: Naw. Wake up and smell the coffee man. Listen to LR threads. People only win SC2 from their opponent making more mistakes than them ... so by extension players only win GSL titles by being very lucky against a series of players who just happen to be making big mistakes allowing them to win. Completely accurate, but an awful way to view the game for anyone. | ||
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Propelled
Denmark184 Posts
On July 01 2014 21:21 xtorn wrote: Why exactly should she apologize ?! She is a pro that can learn a race in a fraction of the time it takes for others to learn, and she proved it. She owes apologies to no one. Good vid. Scarlett wrote history that day, every sc2 player and their mother is grateful for it. it's a reference to an old IdrA game | ||
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buyglof
Armenia3 Posts
User was banned for this post. | ||
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imrusty269
United States1404 Posts
On July 02 2014 12:46 Darthsanta13 wrote: And it only took him 16 months to win GSL after he switched, I bet he barely even knows the keybinds for protoss with that little practice. And if he used that 16 months to practice more terran, he would still be in code B. But I guess it is easier to ignore the ovvious. | ||
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
On July 02 2014 16:21 imrusty269 wrote: And if he used that 16 months to practice more terran, he would still be in code B. But I guess it is easier to ignore the ovvious. Yah, because you know that for a fact. lol. Some people are just better at X race than Y race and when they switch they end up doing better. Perhaps standard BW Terran plays more similar to Standard SC2 Protoss than Terran, so switching to Protoss matched up better with him. I hope you're not one of those idiots who says garbage like, "lol i bet you couldnt make diamond if you switched to terran" | ||
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TaShadan
Germany1965 Posts
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
On July 02 2014 16:39 TaShadan wrote: Watched the game... have to agree with most of the negative comments here. It might be not a problem with protoss in general though (ok without warpin this would be impossible). The problem is that sc2 is mostly won by build orders not by micro and macro. Scarlett just perfectly executed an allin cheese that was unscouted. I wouldn't say that this game reveals a "problem" with SC2. The way I see it is if you don't scout your opponent and then lose to an allin because you had no idea it was coming and had almost no defense (spines) or safety (ling speed/roach warren) prepared then there's nothing wrong with that. The fact that Scarlett switched to Protoss really isn't a big deal and doesn't prove anything about how difficult the race is overall. People are saying she had practised that build a bit on people? In any case it's not like it was her first game of Protoss ever and she just made something up on the spot, plus she has pro level mechanics, so of course she's gonna be able to execute a basic allin (literally the most basic type of Protoss allin). A Terran or Protoss player with some Zerg experience could execute an equivalent... like a roach/ling, ling/bane or roach/bane allin... whether it worked or not would be up to the opponents build and scouting. | ||
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Mahtasooma
Germany475 Posts
So yes, any race switcher CAN win against anyone with anything. A problem arises when a pro player decides win chances are higher with his offrace. | ||
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Animostas
United States568 Posts
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
On July 02 2014 17:12 Mahtasooma wrote: The problem is that in the deciding match (0:1 behind, loser bracket), Scarlett decided win chances would be HIGHER with protoss against DRG than with her main race. So yes, any race switcher CAN win against anyone with anything. A problem arises when a pro player decides win chances are higher with his offrace. Why is that a problem? Is the problem that Scarlett thinks that Protoss allins are better against Zerg than Zerg allins, or that she thought DRG's chances of fucking up against a Protoss allin was more likely than him fucking up a game of ZvZ (beit macro or allin). The fact that it's her offrace doesn't change the fact that it's an easily executable allin. It's not like she switched to Protoss, picked alterzhim and went skytoss. | ||
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JokerAi
Germany142 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. DRG it is not anymore a Top zerg player. And if the zerg player dont scout it is his fail. I play zerg and you see this Buld in gold and dimond league in 80% of all games. If you dont scout it your fail. | ||
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havok55
United States276 Posts
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FuRong
New Zealand3089 Posts
The only reason this is even receiving attention is because it was Scarlett and it was on the mainstage. If some random NA GM had done this in the open bracket to take a game off DRG, noone would care. And Scarlett can probably execute this just as well, if not better than your average NA GM Protoss. As already stated, any pro could execute an effective all-in offrace with a little practice. In fact, some Korean pros have even reached GM on their own server playing offrace. If she had won a super standard 25 minute PvZ macro game instead then it would be more remarkable, but still not really prove anything. If you somehow made a rule that all Koreans had to offrace at a tournament like Homestory Cup and gave them a couple of weeks to practice, I think you'd be surprised at how many would still make the quarterfinals or better. | ||
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Forgottenfrog
United States1268 Posts
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. Yeah slow lings is the perfect respond to this. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24579 Posts
On July 02 2014 16:21 imrusty269 wrote: And if he used that 16 months to practice more terran, he would still be in code B. But I guess it is easier to ignore the ovvious. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/436895-sjow-switches-race-to-protoss | ||
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HellNino
France156 Posts
On July 02 2014 18:13 Heartland wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/436895-sjow-switches-race-to-protoss Well he wasn't that good with terran either at that time, so he could have switched to any race with the same result imo. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On July 01 2014 18:44 Maenander wrote: It's hardly surprising that top players know the weaknesses of their own race and can execute all-ins with other races against their own race that are highly successful. There have been examples of that even in SC-BW. Yes but not quite as significantly as in sc2 period. But I must not talk about it anymore otherwise I'd sound like another supposedly crybaby zerg. This is the main reason I'm playing way less than before. If not at all. On July 01 2014 23:27 purakushi wrote: Anybody can beat anybody in SC2. It just can happen way more with Protoss. It is more of a failure of design rather than balance. This is.exactly what I wanted to say. But the blizzards crew are getting seriously lazy lately. I'm not even sure I'd want to buy their next expansion because they will go like "omg so many new stuffs and also op stuff for X race" when they will just convert it back after a while and it'll probably go like hots. Aka fucking boring useless swarm hosts. They dont even deserve the name "swarm" ffs. | ||
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althaz
Australia1001 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. What? DRG messed up literally everything, lol. That's why he lost. This was so awesome, btw. Sick move by Scarlett. | ||
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Nibbler89
884 Posts
On July 01 2014 20:08 ZenithM wrote: I'm waiting for when people race pick Terran to snipe top Koreans. I know a nasty reaper expand snipe build, don't hesitate to ask me for pro-tips. I was about to say, the day we see a foreign zerg or protoss offrace pick terran and beat a top korean with it will never happen lol. | ||
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vult
United States9400 Posts
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
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Embir
Poland567 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. It baffles my how some people look at this game. If anything that is people like quoted idiot who may cause this game to die. Here we had an awesome situation where great, talented, professional foreign player ("foreign noob" for Korean's cocksucking apologists) makes a tricky move, switch races and wins against his opponent. It was really tricky nad unexpected move - really awesome for spectator like me. Yet, instead of appreciate skill of Scarlett we hear those Korean's lovers screaming "Imbalance" all over the place. For them it is unimaginable that foreigner wins against Korean god with unexpected strategy - "If it happens it must be somethin wrong with game, not with my Korean god!!!" Get fucking real. P.S. Great job Scarlett, that was awesome. As a former SC2 player player, and casual spectator these days I am amazed by your win, it was great and really funny to watch. You proved again that you are the best foreign player. Well done! | ||
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GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
On July 02 2014 08:23 eightym wrote: Scarlet switches to protoss and beats DRG Classic switches to protoss and beats GSL When was the last time someone with a brain switched to terran? Gumiho!:D And snow! | ||
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Holytornados
United States1022 Posts
On July 01 2014 18:43 Tuczniak wrote: Did Scarlett at least apologize for playing that race? No, but she tweeted "easy race?" after the win. It was quite comical. This was honestly my favorite game of SC2 to date, which just recently eclipsed the Scarlett vs. Bomber game with the widow mine hit from Redbull Battlegrounds. Not many were as purely entertaining to me as those two, | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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NewModel
Germany124 Posts
Awsome game/move. In my opinion that doesn´t show that the game is broken, it just show´s that a pro can learn an allin with another race. She would be dead in a long macro game, but the race startings, can be handled by every real pro. And, she perfectly knew, what are the week parts of zerg in this phase of the game. It reminds me of the training methodes of (yes i will call this name) voldemo... oh sAviOr. hopefully you can understand me, even with my poor english skills ps: don´t forget the mind game part in this, it was a high risk to switch and only seems to be easy, because an won allin seems to be easy most of the time. DRG could hold this, but was to confident that he will take this. | ||
Christelle
France77 Posts
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Benk
Canada3 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. DRG scouted only one gas and should have made a roach warren...he KNEW what was coming, he just underestimated Scarlett and lost because of it. It should have been an easy win, but DRG was just playing stupid; there is literally no point in history where defending with mass slowlings + queens has allowed the Zerg player to get out ahead versus their opponent. | ||
digmouse
China6327 Posts
On July 03 2014 22:50 SC2John wrote: DRG scouted only one gas and should have made a roach warren...he KNEW what was coming, he just underestimated Scarlett and lost because of it. It should have been an easy win, but DRG was just playing stupid; there is literally no point in history where defending with mass slowlings + queens has allowed the Zerg player to get out ahead versus their opponent. So much this, why DRG lost that game is beyond me, he knew 100% it's a fast gateway attack and he scouted it, but he didn't react correctly. | ||
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johnbongham
451 Posts
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Jornada
United States223 Posts
On July 03 2014 23:32 johnbongham wrote: This is not impressive at all. I have seen countless protoss foreigners with just about zero real accomplishments stomp on top korean players in the history of sc2. The fact that scarlett - a foreigner considered by many to be the best outside of korea - can execute a protoss allin against a top korean zerg should really not be a big surprise and makes you wonder what she is doing playing zerg at all if she is interested in winning. .... It is impressive... You also are neglecting Nestea not scouting it....and im going to correct you again.... NesTea is NO LONGER a top SC2 player. This is a fact and everyone knows it. I am not bashing Nestea but he is far from what he used to be. | ||
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Swift118
United Kingdom335 Posts
On July 03 2014 23:37 Jornada wrote: .... It is impressive... You also are neglecting Nestea not scouting it....and im going to correct you again.... NesTea is NO LONGER a top SC2 player. This is a fact and everyone knows it. I am not bashing Nestea but he is far from what he used to be. I think you mean DRG.. who I am pretty sure was code s in the last season of GSL, so he is indeed worthy of being labelled a "top sc2 player". | ||
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lhr0909
United States562 Posts
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
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baileypfr
United States13 Posts
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eightym
United States76 Posts
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eightym
United States76 Posts
On July 03 2014 13:29 mishimaBeef wrote: this game is like quake. u need to be fast and i mean fast! otherwise u lose... nobody can play quake perfectly... lol people used to complain the skill ceiling was too low, but maybe it is too high, which is why nobody can play with an unbeatable system. when u get caught off guard due to a quick thing, problems. I feel like your post began as coherent, then gradually devolved into a series of random words. No offense. I'm interested in hearing how Quake might be similar to Starcraft. Games with an impossible skill ceiling are the only games worth calling games imo. | ||
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ImperialFist
790 Posts
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Broodwurst
Germany1586 Posts
On July 04 2014 02:17 eightym wrote: I feel like your post began as coherent, then gradually devolved into a series of random words. No offense. I'm interested in hearing how Quake might be similar to Starcraft. Games with an impossible skill ceiling are the only games worth calling games imo. That doesn't make any sense. Skill ceiling implies the best skill that a human can reach, if it's impossible to reach it's no "skill ceiling" but a limit out of bounds of possibility. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On July 04 2014 02:51 Broodwurst wrote: That doesn't make any sense. Skill ceiling implies the best skill that a human can reach, if it's impossible to reach it's no "skill ceiling" but a limit out of bounds of possibility. u dont know where the ceiling is. 100m dash keeps being improved, yet humans are reaching it. also please point out specifically which part is incoherent as i pride myself on my english skills | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10314 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. If he lost then he didn't react perfectly. There certainly was something wrong with how DRG played since he lost; I don't think this can be debated. | ||
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Broodwurst
Germany1586 Posts
On July 04 2014 02:55 mishimaBeef wrote: u dont know where the ceiling is. 100m dash keeps being improved, yet humans are reaching it. also please point out specifically which part is incoherent as i pride myself on my english skills skill = the ability of a human skill ceiling = the maximum ability of a human impossible skill ceiling = ability a human can't reach Correct? The term skill ceiling itself is stupid, because - as you said - people keep getting better. In everything. Edit: There is no single thing called "skill". A programer needs skill in different fields, like decision making, multitasking, mind games and others. Trying to file them all under the one term "skill" is retarded. | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
DRG was dumb not to have scouted. Because it is obvious that scarlett was going to do some all in. I mean cmon, she's offracing, WHAT OTHER OPTION DOES SHE HAVE? OBVIOUSLY SHE HAD AN ALL IN PREPARED. shes not going to go macro for an offrace. drg should have figured out WHAT all in was coming, and then responded accordingly. however, i do agree with the dude who lost respect for the game. in 2008 at evo when justin wong clawed his way back from the losers bracket, and faced daigo in the finals, his rufus got demolished by daigo's ryu. so then he switched from rufus to balrog won the first series and although he lost the second, it was awe inspiring. here, it was just a protoss all in. meh. its already telling that that classic guy who just won gsl had started out as terran but then decided it sucked and switched races and then became good. doesn't bode well for a game like an rts. for the record i dont play the game anymore | ||
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Advantageous
China1350 Posts
On July 01 2014 16:55 Mahtasooma wrote: Exciting. But in all honesty, this made me lose all respect for the game. I literally cannot play this game anymore. When a foreign Zerg "practices a Protoss build a bit" with other foreigners, and that's enough to win against a GSL Champion who reacted perfectly, didn't overdrone, didn't slip with his macro or micro, had tons of queens, lings and a spine in place... There is just something wrong. I don't think this can even be debated. Exciting, But in all honesty, you shouldn't play this game if you think what DRG did was absolutely perfect. There were mistakes in his defense and as a Toss player I can see that. Sorry but it's better if you actually played more instead of complaining when your race can't win. | ||
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eightym
United States76 Posts
On July 04 2014 03:31 Broodwurst wrote: skill = the ability of a human skill ceiling = the maximum ability of a human impossible skill ceiling = ability a human can't reach Correct? The term skill ceiling itself is stupid, because - as you said - people keep getting better. In everything. Edit: There is no single thing called "skill". A programer needs skill in different fields, like decision making, multitasking, mind games and others. Trying to file them all under the one term "skill" is retarded. ...Correct. Which is why starcraft has an impossible skill ceiling, like I said... "impossible skill ceiling" = the game can not be played perfectly by a human. It's not a hype word. English just isn't your native language. | ||
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Broodwurst
Germany1586 Posts
On July 04 2014 13:41 eightym wrote: ...Correct. Which is why starcraft has an impossible skill ceiling, like I said... "impossible skill ceiling" = the game can not be played perfectly by a human. It's not a hype word. English just isn't your native language. You can put an impossible skill ceiling on pretty much everything. football/soccer = kick the ball at the speed of light poker = you have x-ray vision and see everyones cards An impossible skill ceiling is of no relevance to a game played by humans. The term skill ceiling is used for "It's the best I've seen, nobody will ever top that" - which in general is true only for a certain amount of time. Edit: "Skill" is the most hyped word in everything involving online gaming. Look at the "funny BM" thread, or anywhere else. "Easy race, no skill". "Easy hero, no skill" It's the go-to excuse for everything AND the go-to validation of your fanboy-ism "My favourite player has more skill than your favourite player." Doesn't mean shit (because it's usually tossed around without any substance) but just fits nicely into everything, You're correct though, english isn't my native language. Sorry. | ||
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Strela
Netherlands1896 Posts
On July 01 2014 17:22 Glioburd wrote: Thanks for the video. These point of views from the audience are always fun to watch. I lost all respect for this game long time ago. When you see Naniwa or Dayshi beating Jaedong, a win in offrace is nothing. We know that is not a game based on skill, simply on timing and reaction. Scarlett won the shifumi, but I'm happy for her Only skill game is BW1!11!!!!! | ||
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
On July 04 2014 05:30 fishjie wrote: just watched the game DRG was dumb not to have scouted. Because it is obvious that scarlett was going to do some all in. I mean cmon, she's offracing, WHAT OTHER OPTION DOES SHE HAVE? OBVIOUSLY SHE HAD AN ALL IN PREPARED. shes not going to go macro for an offrace. drg should have figured out WHAT all in was coming, and then responded accordingly. however, i do agree with the dude who lost respect for the game. in 2008 at evo when justin wong clawed his way back from the losers bracket, and faced daigo in the finals, his rufus got demolished by daigo's ryu. so then he switched from rufus to balrog won the first series and although he lost the second, it was awe inspiring. here, it was just a protoss all in. meh. its already telling that that classic guy who just won gsl had started out as terran but then decided it sucked and switched races and then became good. doesn't bode well for a game like an rts. for the record i dont play the game anymore Your point ? Noone, literally no-one disagrees that Terran's in a bad spot, but making it that Protoss is EZPZ is a false statement.. And despite everything - the only real reason why everyone thinks Protoss is easy is because of the late-game army strength and that's all.. EVERYONE, like literally EVERYONE is thinking that same thing - balance out the lategame 200/200 top-tier armies, but that guy who everyone wants to talk about when balance discussion is in the focus doesn't think that "there's a problem", but instead thinks in like "hmmm wouldn't it be cool if..." manner.. Or even worse - "hey isn't this fun to watch ?!"  So - why hate Protoss ?, it's a no easy race, it's just like others, it's that "deathball" that somehow someway our dear God Creator of SC2 decided to leave the faith in everyone else to pray and prevent from that to happen.. Still - every reaction of that type "look at guy X, he switched to Protoss and now suddenly wins everything" are overestimation (and actually really disrespectful) TBH | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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CCow
Germany335 Posts
Sad to see people trying to use this to whine. Losing against a 7gate if you: - dont scout it - don't even have started speed - don't have a roach warren ...well. It should be like that, shouldnt it? The video is great to see how awesome the crowd was and how awesome Scarlett is! ^_^ | ||
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Chrono000
Korea (South)358 Posts
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Scarlett`
China2376 Posts
On July 04 2014 07:56 Advantageous wrote: Exciting, But in all honesty, you shouldn't play this game if you think what DRG did was absolutely perfect. There were mistakes in his defense and as a Toss player I can see that. Sorry but it's better if you actually played more instead of complaining when your race can't win. It's pretty much impossible to beat with 3base zerg unless you find the probe; even when you know it's coming | ||
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SelimSC
Turkey39 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Mutineer
New Zealand179 Posts
On July 03 2014 22:45 Benk wrote: Didn't know you were allowed to change race once tournament was started... Seens last year blizzard change rules. You can give note of race before each game. Note is hidden from opponent until loading screen. Blizzard wanted to encourage race switches and random player. So far as I know this rule was used .... 2 times. | ||
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jaccipiter
United States3 Posts
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WOPR
Canada145 Posts
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