EPTThe future of RTS games - Page 24
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Keep "my game is better than yours"-slapfights out of this. If the discussion devolves into simple bashing, this thread will be closed. | ||
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Lumi
United States1616 Posts
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Snorkle
United States1648 Posts
On May 16 2014 03:42 Plansix wrote: Valve releases zero data on dota, but it's widely accepted that its main purpose to get you to install steam on your PC. Who knows for lol, but they are making bank. But none of that matters for RTS games. It's like asking "how can 3d shooters get league numbers". We can extrapolate just a tiny bit of data from compendium sales. The current prize pool is up to 5 million. The base was 1.6. So we know that the prize pool has been increased by 3.4 million. Now that 3.4 million came from $2.50 of every $10 dollar purchase which means valve has made 10 million dollars just from releasing this years compendium. If we consider HotS selling for $40 that is the equivalent of selling 250,000 copies of HotS. That number will likely continue to rise and this is ONLY the compendium and not any of the other hat purchases. How amazing would it be if the SC2 competitive scene could generate the equivalent of 250,000 copies of a game sold every year while also supporting its own prize pool. The future of RTS is somewhere in the free to play + hats model. Not in buying a box. | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
On May 16 2014 04:01 urboss wrote: When we look at the sales of the franchises, according to Wikipedia, StarCraft is at 17 million total Diablo is at 20 million total Not so much difference to be honest. At least there is no immediate reason to be concerned about StarCraft. www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises @Thieving_Magpie: stop posting incorrect data , you are doing this the second time already in this thread. StarCraft was the 8th best selling video game of all time! One thing that really surprises me in very unpleasant way. Diablo 3 sound roughly about as much as SC2, now with the removal of the AH and gold buying it doesn't act as a sort of continuous revenue stream like WoW. Yet Diablo 3 gets regular patches, big ones every couple of months, it has also done several big and game changing sweaps. I'd like to see that same sort of care done with SC2 even now. Given that both games are roughly the same size in terms of sales I don't see why one has to get more attention then the other. Edit: What Snorkles said is very true. I don't think RTS games are outdated or dead or on their way out, I just think the current monetization model for them is probably dated. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17600 Posts
On May 16 2014 03:51 Big J wrote: I already told you. Heroes of the Storm is built on the SC2 engine. Of course the same people that developed that are developing it. Also MOBAs are a subgenre of RTS games Multiplayer online battle arena (MOBA), also known as action real-time strategy (ARTS) or Hero Brawler, is a sub-genre of the real-time strategy (RTS) genre of video games (source Wikipedia) Of course RTS developers are going to develop an RTS... Not RPG developers. Not ARPG developers. RTS developers. if there were profits to be made MS, ATVI and EA would be doubling down and building all kinds of RTS games and supporting them with patches and live events. this is not happening. Blizzard is even moving its RTS team away into a MOBA if there was money to be made Blizzard would hire a new RTS team to pump out more content. | ||
Falling
Canada11535 Posts
On May 16 2014 03:18 Plansix wrote: Shockingly, studios that make shitty games that don't sell get shit down. Those that make good games do not. RTS has nothing to do with that. I really believe this is the true issue. As much as I have serious issues with SC2, I really only see Blizzard pulling their weight in the RTS genre. The RTS that have been released outside of Blizzard have been really crummy. From boring gameplay (Supcom2), to baffling multiplayer decisions (C&C4- what the hell were they thinking match-making low tier with top tier when you had to play to unlock units), to completely buggy messes (Total War: Rome II.) Modern RTS's have failed for the most part because they were crummy games. I suspect we need some developers to move away from the AAA gaming industry and a $60 game, but a more indie approach released on Steam. Maybe with more community consultation like Grim Dawn's developers. But I don't believe RTS genre is dead because the demand has gone down. The demand might not be equivalent to a free moba, but I think it still exists. It just can't be fulfilled with crappy games, AAA marketing or not. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17600 Posts
On May 16 2014 04:01 urboss wrote: StarCraft is at 17 million total Diablo is at 20 million total this includes sales of games made in the 1990s... in the past.. 10+ years ago RTS games like SC1 sold great compared to other genres of games. and i'm really not talking about the 90s. my point is that "the future of RTS games" is bleak because sales are declining relative to other genres. D3 has outsold SC2 by a substantial margin. D3 alone has surpassed 15 million and once "Ultimate Evil" comes out .. D3 alone will pass overall SC lifetime sales. and MORE THAN DOUBLE SC2 sales. http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/02/07/diablo-3-surpasses-15-million-sales SC2 is no where near 15 million. Blizzard brags about their sales totals and stopped discussing SC2 sales just after HotS came out. D3 is available on many more platforums and Blizzard is continuing to pump out new D3 content for even more sales. SC2 is on hold until the MOBA is done. On May 16 2014 05:40 Falling wrote: I really believe this is the true issue. As much as I have serious issues with SC2, I really only see Blizzard pulling their weight in the RTS genre. its all about money per hour of effort by the dev studio. RTS customers are more trouble than they are worth. Even Blizzard is slowly pulling away. | ||
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RedFury
Italy85 Posts
http://www.microsoft-careers.com/job/Redmond-Software-Development-Engineer-Lead,-Principal-Microsoft-Studios-(876718)-Job-WA-98052/58627500/ | ||
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
They are always late to the party. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
The only place that SC2 is a bad game is on TL in eyes of BW hipsters. Everywhere else it was a wild success. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26993 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17600 Posts
WoL was such a wild success LOL. so wild Blizz has made a single $40 expansion in more than 5 years. ( LotV is more than a year away) When any game is a wild success ( WoW, CoD, Skylanders ) the first thing profit oriented organizations do is say this How can we make even more money off of these guys? Make more content and sell it! Blizzard is not doing that. CoD now has 3 studios pumping out games. That's the sign of a profitable game. SC2 lost its only studio making it. EALA , Ensemble, Victory Games.. all gone. I bet the average 10 year old has lost more money in those stupid fucking Skylanders plastic things than all the revenue Blizz brought in for SC2 | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
People just seem to have some really wild expectations here, seriously if ded geam wasn't bad enough ded genre is probably worst. | ||
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5c0rp10n
Germany342 Posts
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DocM
United States212 Posts
I don't think that we have a dead game or genre either. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17600 Posts
On May 16 2014 06:33 Destructicon wrote: This whole doom and gloom regarding the RTS genre is quite disturbing, I highly doubt SC2 is really its last big hurah, and I have the utmost confidence a Warcraft 4 or SC3, with better core design decisions, a stronger UI and arcade and a better monetization model could still be a resounding success even if it doesn't reach the height of MoBAs. People just seem to have some really wild expectations here, seriously if ded geam wasn't bad enough ded genre is probably worst. Blizzard is very happy with the work Dustin Browder did on SC2. They promoted him to VP and put another big title under his empire. They even let him be the #2 speaker at Blizzcon right after Morhaime. Blizzard thinks SC2's core design decisions made by Browder were really good. Ultimately, SC2 is Browder's baby. | ||
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
On May 16 2014 06:50 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Blizzard is very happy with the work Dustin Browder did on SC2. They promoted him to VP and put another big title under his empire. They even let him be the #2 speaker at Blizzcon right after Morhaime. Blizzard thinks SC2's core design decisions made by Browder were really good. Ultimately, SC2 is Browder's baby. So good that Blizzard decided they need another lead designer http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1y9j0l/blizzard_looking_for_a_lead_designer_for_sc2_and/ Lets not kid ourselves here, Dustin did a good but far from great job. SC2 has many critical design flaws around several concepts or units that didn't work but Blizzard felt was absolutely imperative they force to work. It also has micro limitations built right into the engine, lack of a proper scaling economy, lack of meaningful drawbacks to keep aoe splash from becoming to strong in critical masses, etc. Again he did a good job but the way he handled the design problems when they reared their ugly heads has been appalling. | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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packrat386
United States5077 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 16 2014 08:00 packrat386 wrote: If you define sc2 as dying, there are tons of "dead" games with vibrant scenes. Quake and BW are the deadest of games. | ||
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