EPTI think giving mines back a little of their oomph(not all of it) would be a better idea than making upgrades even easier to get.
Balance Status Update 4/29/14 - Page 9
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
I think giving mines back a little of their oomph(not all of it) would be a better idea than making upgrades even easier to get. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
But Korean Terrans will take the cheaper upgrades and kill Zergs for a while with 3/3, before Zergs manage to solidify their Hive tech again, which is currently the point of can't win for a Terran. | ||
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gobbledydook
Australia2605 Posts
it's been barely two months (?) and now they want to change it again. Meanwhile the meta keeps evolving... | ||
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
On April 30 2014 16:39 Circumstance wrote: Every hyperbole has a nugget of truth behind it, and if Korean Protosses like Rain and Alicia are struggling against Terran late-game, then it would be a VERY bad idea to make bio upgrades cheaper. I think the Transformation Servos thing is minor, but a minor buff might be just enough with this current map pool. I'm actually not as surprised as I thought I'd be that there's no PvZ change in mind for Blizz. Swarm Host usage against Protoss seems a lot more offensively-oriented lately, which means that win or lose, it's over quick. Not every hyperbole does necessarily have a grain of truth behind it. This one specifically seems to be a case of blaming a personal slump on balance and some 2nd tier pros jumping at the opportunity to whine along. Which is why the community found the bl/infestor comment so hillarious and is still using it whenever possble  | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 30 2014 17:22 gobbledydook wrote: They should just leave it as it is... it's been barely two months (?) and now they want to change it again. Meanwhile the meta keeps evolving... 2months... I wish they would give us updates on the balance & metagame every two weeks and release a patch every month if the same concerns were in two consecutive updates. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 30 2014 17:22 gobbledydook wrote: They should just leave it as it is... it's been barely two months (?) and now they want to change it again. Meanwhile the meta keeps evolving... Race? Terran is in a less good spot, see pro results. Nothing changed in TvZ since the 'anti-stale' patch that nerfed T for no apparant reason other than to just nerf something for the sake of it. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 30 2014 17:28 Big J wrote: 2months... I wish they would give us updates on the balance & metagame every two weeks and release a patch every month if the same concerns were in two consecutive updates. Errr. No. Strategy Games require some time to let the metagame catch up. If you patch that furiously, nobody will ever determine builds and the winning race is determined by luck of the draw only. More reports, sure, more communication is better. More patches, no thanks. | ||
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p14c
Vatican City State431 Posts
 I have even a greater idea let's make hydralisks cost almost no gas...Or even better let's make dark templars move at the same speed as a stimmed marine... | ||
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TW
Poland255 Posts
Don't forget that hellbats drops will be available a lot earlier with the free transformation. I hope that with this patch things will get even again  | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On April 30 2014 17:15 Gamegene wrote: sorry i meant TvP MECH!!! (promise) i would never want our zerg friends to be unhappy Well it would cost the same why playing bio  | ||
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Gianttt
Netherlands194 Posts
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
And despite a really strong 2 months or so of testing and trying mech by a lot of pro gamers, it seems a lot of them have come to the inevitable conclusion that, mech still has massive flaws in its gameplay that are easily exploited, so they gave up on it. The change might actually help TvP where gas is a issue when building an army with bio + vikings + ghosts while trying to not fall behind toss in terms of upgrades. However it doesn't really address the real issue of terrans still having a really hard time hitting any early timings because of how strong defense is, or not having any stronger transition in the late game, or having a hard time closing out the game. The removal of transformation servos is a good idea and is possibly the most impactful of the new changes. The reason being that terrans could possibly hit some new timings in all MUs. Weather it be for drops or just pushes, and particularly in TvZ, if said timings are strong enough to force a more defensive reaction from the zerg, then it could mean they can't drone as hard and terran could enter the mid game with more of an advantage, maybe enough to be on even footing. However it, again, won't address the mid and late game problems where bio just doesn't trade well any more against ling, bling muta. Overall I give a big yes to the transformation servos upgrade, a big no to the upgrade change, and a really big sigh to the entire patch idea. I dunno, it feels like Blizzard doesn't know how to actually fix the real issues here. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 30 2014 17:31 SC2Toastie wrote: Errr. No. Strategy Games require some time to let the metagame catch up. If you patch that furiously, nobody will ever determine builds and the winning race is determined by luck of the draw only. More reports, sure, more communication is better. More patches, no thanks. What games are you talking about? The never-patched late Broodwar, so we can't know? The early WoL, which was developing its metagame regardless of the many patches? Which other highly competitive Strategy Games are out there that I don't know about and from which you draw that fundamental knowledge to conclude things about CnC, SupCom, CoH, BfME...? | ||
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Frex
Finland888 Posts
Removing transformation servos could be interesting. We could see stronger early-mid game pushes especially if you keep your first hellions alive, however, needing armory would still slow down such a push. Anyway, both changes are again upgrade changes. It seems that whenever Blizzard sees terran struggling they come in and meddle with the upgrades and that approach is just dubious to me. | ||
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Gamlet
Ukraine336 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On April 30 2014 17:28 Big J wrote: 2months... I wish they would give us updates on the balance & metagame every two weeks and release a patch every month if the same concerns were in two consecutive updates. Are you serious? A fortnightly update would be like dropping a load of shit over and over again for the community flies. As to monthly patches, this is meant to be Starcraft not DOTA. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On April 30 2014 17:32 p14c wrote: David Kim: ZvT is becoming stale. I have a great idea: Let's nerf Terran and see what happens... I have even a greater idea let's make hydralisks cost almost no gas...Or even better let's make dark templars move at the same speed as a stimmed marine... These buffs never made it | ||
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On April 30 2014 17:39 Destructicon wrote: I don't see the upgrade cost changing much in TvZ. Terrans going bio could already afford them easily without sacrificing units and could get a upgrade lead over zergs anyway. The issues is that bio vs zerg doesn't seem to be able to compete any more given that WM where nerfed and siege tanks just aren't an appropriate alternative. And despite a really strong 2 months or so of testing and trying mech by a lot of pro gamers, it seems a lot of them have come to the inevitable conclusion that, mech still has massive flaws in its gameplay that are easily exploited, so they gave up on it. The change might actually help TvP where gas is a issue when building an army with bio + vikings + ghosts while trying to not fall behind toss in terms of upgrades. However it doesn't really address the real issue of terrans still having a really hard time hitting any early timings because of how strong defense is, or not having any stronger transition in the late game, or having a hard time closing out the game. The removal of transformation servos is a good idea and is possibly the most impactful of the new changes. The reason being that terrans could possibly hit some new timings in all MUs. Weather it be for drops or just pushes, and particularly in TvZ, if said timings are strong enough to force a more defensive reaction from the zerg, then it could mean they can't drone as hard and terran could enter the mid game with more of an advantage, maybe enough to be on even footing. However it, again, won't address the mid and late game problems where bio just doesn't trade well any more against ling, bling muta. Overall I give a big yes to the transformation servos upgrade, a big no to the upgrade change, and a really big sigh to the entire patch idea. I dunno, it feels like Blizzard doesn't know how to actually fix the real issues here. This is a dumb remark from me but... Why do Terrans continues to try to early push when it's absolutly impossible to do damage. Maybe it's a bad analogy but when Oov revolutionized Terrans, the vultures he made where kept in his base rather than harassing. And because of that he always had more units on defense to take an earlier base. So why don't completly give up on the early timings and solidify the laters ? I want to see what people say about that. Also Destructicon, keep in mind that Balance is affecting every player on the planet, that it requires tests and whatnot. We don't know what they test internally. They may already have tried all of what was suggested and it didn't work. This game is great. balance is not really that broken (but yes it might need of few tweeks). They made great games, they'll made great patch. Remember that in BW at some point Terrans had 90% WR on some maps, then SaviOr came and won convingcibly on those maps. SC2 is still young. KEEP IN MIND. I AM NOT INSTIGATING A BW VS SC2 MATCH. NOR A SAVIOR DISCUSSION. On April 30 2014 17:44 Daswollvieh wrote: Yeah, but what about the bunker? What the... If you want to talk about that, i want the planet cracker back, and the infinite time neural parasite. | ||
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Qwerty85
Croatia5536 Posts
On April 30 2014 17:22 gobbledydook wrote: They should just leave it as it is... it's been barely two months (?) and now they want to change it again. Meanwhile the meta keeps evolving... The meta was now again changed by direct Blizzard interference. They intentionally weakened maps for blink but also for reaper scouts. Maps now favor zerg and are worse for blink play but also for reaper scouting so all of a sudden zerg is doing better. So by that logic, they should also keep the map pool unchanged as well to let the meta to stabilize, otherwise they will never know if it is the right time to patch or not. But while that is going on, we have a precedent in history of SC2. There was never a time period in which a certain race was without a premier tournament win for 6 months until now. Terran is without a win since November 2013. This didn't even happen during GomTvT or broodlord-infestor era. So I am sure Blizzard feels the pressure to do something about it. | ||
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