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Balance Status Update 4/29/14 - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
697 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 35 Next All
Squat
Profile Joined September 2013
Sweden7978 Posts
April 30 2014 08:18 GMT
#161
Cheaper upgrades will just make it even easier to beat zerg to 3/3, which terrans does comfortably already. The hellbat change is good.

I think giving mines back a little of their oomph(not all of it) would be a better idea than making upgrades even easier to get.
"Digital. They have digital. What is digital?" - Donald J Trump
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
April 30 2014 08:18 GMT
#162
Poor Zergies, their ling only tech race never worked when Hellions could go into Hellbat mode right in front of their base and the wallin they made against the Hellions was their demise once the Hellbats ran over that part. But people wanted changes, it is a really sweet way to go Mech. But with the last tank buff, I kinda doubt this will go live. But they might make the Servos 25/25 or so.
But Korean Terrans will take the cheaper upgrades and kill Zergs for a while with 3/3, before Zergs manage to solidify their Hive tech again, which is currently the point of can't win for a Terran.
gobbledydook
Profile Joined October 2012
Australia2605 Posts
April 30 2014 08:22 GMT
#163
They should just leave it as it is...
it's been barely two months (?) and now they want to change it again.
Meanwhile the meta keeps evolving...
I am a dirty Protoss bullshit abuser
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
April 30 2014 08:27 GMT
#164
I'd say wait some more time, the meta seems to be in a state without gross imbalances at least and the remaining issues might go away once the pros had more time to adapt to the new map pool.
On April 30 2014 16:39 Circumstance wrote:
Every hyperbole has a nugget of truth behind it, and if Korean Protosses like Rain and Alicia are struggling against Terran late-game, then it would be a VERY bad idea to make bio upgrades cheaper. I think the Transformation Servos thing is minor, but a minor buff might be just enough with this current map pool.

I'm actually not as surprised as I thought I'd be that there's no PvZ change in mind for Blizz. Swarm Host usage against Protoss seems a lot more offensively-oriented lately, which means that win or lose, it's over quick.

Not every hyperbole does necessarily have a grain of truth behind it.
This one specifically seems to be a case of blaming a personal slump on balance and some 2nd tier pros jumping at the opportunity to whine along. Which is why the community found the bl/infestor comment so hillarious and is still using it whenever possble
Get off my lawn, young punks
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
April 30 2014 08:28 GMT
#165
On April 30 2014 17:22 gobbledydook wrote:
They should just leave it as it is...
it's been barely two months (?) and now they want to change it again.
Meanwhile the meta keeps evolving...


2months... I wish they would give us updates on the balance & metagame every two weeks and release a patch every month if the same concerns were in two consecutive updates.
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
April 30 2014 08:30 GMT
#166
People making a big fuss out of the upgrade buff, it's really not that huge. It saves you about 1 medivac at the 15 minute mark! boohoo! The timing doesn't hit faster since it is all continuous after 1/1, which isn't sped up by this.
On April 30 2014 17:22 gobbledydook wrote:
They should just leave it as it is...
it's been barely two months (?) and now they want to change it again.
Meanwhile the meta keeps evolving...

Race?
Terran is in a less good spot, see pro results. Nothing changed in TvZ since the 'anti-stale' patch that nerfed T for no apparant reason other than to just nerf something for the sake of it.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-30 08:31:47
April 30 2014 08:31 GMT
#167
On April 30 2014 17:28 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2014 17:22 gobbledydook wrote:
They should just leave it as it is...
it's been barely two months (?) and now they want to change it again.
Meanwhile the meta keeps evolving...


2months... I wish they would give us updates on the balance & metagame every two weeks and release a patch every month if the same concerns were in two consecutive updates.

Errr. No. Strategy Games require some time to let the metagame catch up. If you patch that furiously, nobody will ever determine builds and the winning race is determined by luck of the draw only. More reports, sure, more communication is better. More patches, no thanks.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
p14c
Profile Joined May 2010
Vatican City State431 Posts
April 30 2014 08:32 GMT
#168
David Kim: ZvT is becoming stale. I have a great idea: Let's nerf Terran and see what happens...
I have even a greater idea let's make hydralisks cost almost no gas...Or even better let's make dark templars move at the same speed as a stimmed marine...
Game Over, Man! Game Over!
TW
Profile Joined March 2012
Poland255 Posts
April 30 2014 08:37 GMT
#169
Because of Hellion change Z will have to play more defensively, make more army at early stage, what means less economy, what means less army and mutas in the midgame and so on..

Don't forget that hellbats drops will be available a lot earlier with the free transformation.

I hope that with this patch things will get even again
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
April 30 2014 08:38 GMT
#170
On April 30 2014 17:15 Gamegene wrote:
sorry i meant TvP MECH!!! (promise) i would never want our zerg friends to be unhappy


Well it would cost the same why playing bio
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
Gianttt
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Netherlands194 Posts
April 30 2014 08:38 GMT
#171
I like the Terran changes. I do think they should be able to pressure Protoss a bit more.
Winners: It is difficult, but it's possible.
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
April 30 2014 08:39 GMT
#172
I don't see the upgrade cost changing much in TvZ. Terrans going bio could already afford them easily without sacrificing units and could get a upgrade lead over zergs anyway. The issues is that bio vs zerg doesn't seem to be able to compete any more given that WM where nerfed and siege tanks just aren't an appropriate alternative.

And despite a really strong 2 months or so of testing and trying mech by a lot of pro gamers, it seems a lot of them have come to the inevitable conclusion that, mech still has massive flaws in its gameplay that are easily exploited, so they gave up on it.

The change might actually help TvP where gas is a issue when building an army with bio + vikings + ghosts while trying to not fall behind toss in terms of upgrades. However it doesn't really address the real issue of terrans still having a really hard time hitting any early timings because of how strong defense is, or not having any stronger transition in the late game, or having a hard time closing out the game.

The removal of transformation servos is a good idea and is possibly the most impactful of the new changes. The reason being that terrans could possibly hit some new timings in all MUs. Weather it be for drops or just pushes, and particularly in TvZ, if said timings are strong enough to force a more defensive reaction from the zerg, then it could mean they can't drone as hard and terran could enter the mid game with more of an advantage, maybe enough to be on even footing. However it, again, won't address the mid and late game problems where bio just doesn't trade well any more against ling, bling muta.

Overall I give a big yes to the transformation servos upgrade, a big no to the upgrade change, and a really big sigh to the entire patch idea. I dunno, it feels like Blizzard doesn't know how to actually fix the real issues here.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-30 08:49:20
April 30 2014 08:39 GMT
#173
On April 30 2014 17:31 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2014 17:28 Big J wrote:
On April 30 2014 17:22 gobbledydook wrote:
They should just leave it as it is...
it's been barely two months (?) and now they want to change it again.
Meanwhile the meta keeps evolving...


2months... I wish they would give us updates on the balance & metagame every two weeks and release a patch every month if the same concerns were in two consecutive updates.

Errr. No. Strategy Games require some time to let the metagame catch up. If you patch that furiously, nobody will ever determine builds and the winning race is determined by luck of the draw only. More reports, sure, more communication is better. More patches, no thanks.


What games are you talking about?
The never-patched late Broodwar, so we can't know?
The early WoL, which was developing its metagame regardless of the many patches?

Which other highly competitive Strategy Games are out there that I don't know about and from which you draw that fundamental knowledge to conclude things about CnC, SupCom, CoH, BfME...?
Frex
Profile Joined March 2012
Finland888 Posts
April 30 2014 08:40 GMT
#174
They changed the upgrade costs for protoss, so I don´t see how the upgrade change would be so dramatic for terran as some people feel. However, I just don´t see the point and it feels just another band-aid fix.

Removing transformation servos could be interesting. We could see stronger early-mid game pushes especially if you keep your first hellions alive, however, needing armory would still slow down such a push.

Anyway, both changes are again upgrade changes. It seems that whenever Blizzard sees terran struggling they come in and meddle with the upgrades and that approach is just dubious to me.
Gamlet
Profile Joined December 2012
Ukraine336 Posts
April 30 2014 08:40 GMT
#175
In 2016 all terrans upgrades remove
Kiev
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
April 30 2014 08:42 GMT
#176
On April 30 2014 17:28 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2014 17:22 gobbledydook wrote:
They should just leave it as it is...
it's been barely two months (?) and now they want to change it again.
Meanwhile the meta keeps evolving...


2months... I wish they would give us updates on the balance & metagame every two weeks and release a patch every month if the same concerns were in two consecutive updates.


Are you serious? A fortnightly update would be like dropping a load of shit over and over again for the community flies.

As to monthly patches, this is meant to be Starcraft not DOTA.
KT best KT ~ 2014
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
April 30 2014 08:42 GMT
#177
On April 30 2014 17:32 p14c wrote:
David Kim: ZvT is becoming stale. I have a great idea: Let's nerf Terran and see what happens...
I have even a greater idea let's make hydralisks cost almost no gas...Or even better let's make dark templars move at the same speed as a stimmed marine...


These buffs never made it
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
Daswollvieh
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
5553 Posts
April 30 2014 08:44 GMT
#178
Yeah, but what about the bunker?
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-30 08:50:55
April 30 2014 08:46 GMT
#179
On April 30 2014 17:39 Destructicon wrote:
I don't see the upgrade cost changing much in TvZ. Terrans going bio could already afford them easily without sacrificing units and could get a upgrade lead over zergs anyway. The issues is that bio vs zerg doesn't seem to be able to compete any more given that WM where nerfed and siege tanks just aren't an appropriate alternative.

And despite a really strong 2 months or so of testing and trying mech by a lot of pro gamers, it seems a lot of them have come to the inevitable conclusion that, mech still has massive flaws in its gameplay that are easily exploited, so they gave up on it.

The change might actually help TvP where gas is a issue when building an army with bio + vikings + ghosts while trying to not fall behind toss in terms of upgrades. However it doesn't really address the real issue of terrans still having a really hard time hitting any early timings because of how strong defense is, or not having any stronger transition in the late game, or having a hard time closing out the game.

The removal of transformation servos is a good idea and is possibly the most impactful of the new changes. The reason being that terrans could possibly hit some new timings in all MUs. Weather it be for drops or just pushes, and particularly in TvZ, if said timings are strong enough to force a more defensive reaction from the zerg, then it could mean they can't drone as hard and terran could enter the mid game with more of an advantage, maybe enough to be on even footing. However it, again, won't address the mid and late game problems where bio just doesn't trade well any more against ling, bling muta.

Overall I give a big yes to the transformation servos upgrade, a big no to the upgrade change, and a really big sigh to the entire patch idea. I dunno, it feels like Blizzard doesn't know how to actually fix the real issues here.


This is a dumb remark from me but... Why do Terrans continues to try to early push when it's absolutly impossible to do damage. Maybe it's a bad analogy but when Oov revolutionized Terrans, the vultures he made where kept in his base rather than harassing. And because of that he always had more units on defense to take an earlier base.

So why don't completly give up on the early timings and solidify the laters ? I want to see what people say about that.

Also Destructicon, keep in mind that Balance is affecting every player on the planet, that it requires tests and whatnot. We don't know what they test internally. They may already have tried all of what was suggested and it didn't work. This game is great. balance is not really that broken (but yes it might need of few tweeks). They made great games, they'll made great patch.

Remember that in BW at some point Terrans had 90% WR on some maps, then SaviOr came and won convingcibly on those maps. SC2 is still young.

KEEP IN MIND. I AM NOT INSTIGATING A BW VS SC2 MATCH. NOR A SAVIOR DISCUSSION.

On April 30 2014 17:44 Daswollvieh wrote:
Yeah, but what about the bunker?


What the... If you want to talk about that, i want the planet cracker back, and the infinite time neural parasite.
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
Qwerty85
Profile Joined June 2012
Croatia5536 Posts
April 30 2014 08:51 GMT
#180
On April 30 2014 17:22 gobbledydook wrote:
They should just leave it as it is...
it's been barely two months (?) and now they want to change it again.
Meanwhile the meta keeps evolving...


The meta was now again changed by direct Blizzard interference. They intentionally weakened maps for blink but also for reaper scouts. Maps now favor zerg and are worse for blink play but also for reaper scouting so all of a sudden zerg is doing better.

So by that logic, they should also keep the map pool unchanged as well to let the meta to stabilize, otherwise they will never know if it is the right time to patch or not.

But while that is going on, we have a precedent in history of SC2.

There was never a time period in which a certain race was without a premier tournament win for 6 months until now. Terran is without a win since November 2013.

This didn't even happen during GomTvT or broodlord-infestor era. So I am sure Blizzard feels the pressure to do something about it.
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