EPT
.Balance Status Update 4/29/14 - Page 11
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Musicus
Germany23570 Posts
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9sWlBGg.png) Note that there are 184 TvTs while there are over 400 PvPs and ZvZs. It's more than double the population! This means that only the best of the best among terrans are even competing anymore, and they can barely manage to remain even with Protoss. But they are at a bigger disadvantage against Z. This means that T is not repopulating tournaments. Instead, we're seeing the race slowly die away. Blizzard should buff terran in such a way that we'd balance out the populations. It's not balance if top 4 terrans in the world get a 50% winrate against foreigner Protosses and Zergs. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 30 2014 18:17 Wombat_NI wrote: Protoss can hold a hell of a lot blindly in the matchup, so a disparity in scouting ability isn't a massive deal. Personally I prefer the ability to scout better and reactively prepare than having solid catch-all defensive units though. We'll see how things turn out. I'd also prefer to see previous changes reversed especially: 1. Protoss upgrade costs. A change rooted in WoL where Protoss had to invest hundreds of gas in sentries still in place when they don't. Not to mention all ground units share these ups unlike the bio/mech melee/ranged splits that Terran and Zerg have. 2. Oracle speed buff. Holdable but annoying as hell and the ostensible reason for it - lategame utility didn't change at all. Would be nice to experiment with, yes. | ||
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Gullis
Sweden740 Posts
Upgrade change: In tvz terran already have the upgrade advantage and in tvp it will make terran stronger in the midgame where they already are very strong. I don't think it will change much but I am scared that many of the buffs to terran midgame is gonna have to get reverted when (if ever) tvp early game is addressed. So in my opinion bad change. Transformation change. Not much so say. No one ever got that upgrade so hellbats and hellions where basically two different units. Now people may start to use the transformation ability more which is cool I guess. Good change | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23732 Posts
I would like a bit more pre-planning in the early game in that sense, not necessarily that specific change mind or something that leads to blind losses where you pick wrongly. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 30 2014 18:22 Wombat_NI wrote: You could find a workaround, like sticking one or both of PO/Timewarp on the Nexus but in such a way that you can research and build probes simultaneously. I would like a bit more pre-planning in the early game in that sense, not necessarily that specific change mind or something that leads to blind losses where you pick wrongly. I suppose another option is to research them at the MSC, 50/50/60 (Concussive Shells time/cost) each. Unlock the upgrades before you can use it. Also makes the MSC a 250/250 unit if fully upgraded, maybe some tosses will be less sloppy then :D In hindsight, this'd be a bad idea. | ||
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AaronChance
29 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 30 2014 18:27 AaronChance wrote: Neither will solve the muta problem, so it doesn't matter which option Blizzard goes with. The hellbat change might, in the same way the queen buff made broodlord infestor OP. Having 6 hellbats instead of 6 hellions (or even more!) in that 1/1 timing to clear creep might make for a HUGE difference, forcing Zerg to invest more into army (roaches/banes/queens) which delays mutalisk, and with that, delays the snowball effect. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On April 30 2014 18:28 SC2Toastie wrote: The hellbat change might, in the same way the queen buff made broodlord infestor OP. Having 6 hellbats instead of 6 hellions (or even more!) in that 1/1 timing to clear creep might make for a HUGE difference, forcing Zerg to invest more into army (roaches/banes/queens) which delays mutalisk, and with that, delays the snowball effect. Yeah... 6hellions/2Reapers is not the same thing as 6hellbars/2reaper. Also mass muta is more a problem in ZvP right ? I like the overcharge upgrade that people talked about. It would make... 1less sentry ? But yeah why not. I have no idea if that would make something different, because everyone research WG. So everyone would research overcharge. But if it's in the cyber core you would have to choose what you want first. Mabe that's a good idea. Oh and toastie thx for your insight. As i don't play anymore and don't have time to watch as many tournaments as before i lack a lot of insight in the game now. | ||
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sCnInfinity
Germany82 Posts
On April 30 2014 18:28 SC2Toastie wrote: The hellbat change might, in the same way the queen buff made broodlord infestor OP. Having 6 hellbats instead of 6 hellions (or even more!) in that 1/1 timing to clear creep might make for a HUGE difference, forcing Zerg to invest more into army (roaches/banes/queens) which delays mutalisk, and with that, delays the snowball effect. That would be nice and i think it would really help the MU. Right now it is way too ez for Zerg to get 30+ Mutas | ||
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AaronChance
29 Posts
On April 30 2014 18:28 SC2Toastie wrote: The hellbat change might, in the same way the queen buff made broodlord infestor OP. Having 6 hellbats instead of 6 hellions (or even more!) in that 1/1 timing to clear creep might make for a HUGE difference, forcing Zerg to invest more into army (roaches/banes/queens) which delays mutalisk, and with that, delays the snowball effect. I've seen zergs lose almost all their drones at the natural to a hellion run by, and still gotten to mutas fast enough to crush the terran. Zergs are pretty resilient in the early game. They can even lose a hatch and come back. What the terran needs is to sustain through the mid-game, which is roaches or mutas. Now with this change it'll definitely be mutas. So a heavy hellion investment early will cripple them in the mid-game. | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
On April 30 2014 18:16 SC2Toastie wrote: rofl. You're clueless. Upgrades won't hit faster, they're limited by research time, not cost. If they are cheaper they can be gained sooner, I will ignore the rest of your childish jibberish. So yeah, they would break TvZ hard. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On April 30 2014 18:38 Parcelleus wrote: If they are cheaper they can be gained sooner, I will ignore the rest of your childish jibberish. So yeah, they would break TvZ hard. Wut? you do realize that they can be currently gotten directly after 11 finishes. And 33 after 22 finishes. So, if you don't get 11 any earlier, how on earth can you get 22 and 33 earlier by only changing the cost of 22 and 33? | ||
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JorSharky
11 Posts
as for TvP the problem is protoss now can do all-ins or rush strategies without having to worry about any aggression from the terran due to the Nex-canon, the whole problem is in the MSC, unless they figure out away to nerf it, TvP will never be balanced! changing the upgrade cost will change almost nothing, in TvP in particular. The hellbats upgrade is necessary I believe, but with reverting the WM damage it will change the game too much. Blizzard always buff the Terran too much by the realse of the new expansion package, then spends all effort to nerf it until it's un-winnable! Same thing happened in WoL at its late stages, it only happened faster in HoTS! | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
On April 30 2014 18:38 Parcelleus wrote: If they are cheaper they can be gained sooner, I will ignore the rest of your childish jibberish. So yeah, they would break TvZ hard. Most players generally align their upgrade timings in such a way that when 1/1 is about to be completed, they have the 175/175 x2 needed to research 2/2. While this will be reduced to 150/150 x2, it doesn't affect the timing at all because 1/1 has not changed. The starting point is still the same, with the same research time and cost. If you start 1/1 at 8:00, you can still only start 2/2 at 10:40, regardless of the upgrade cost. Even if 1/1 was made cheaper, you'd still need to start 1/1 sooner to get the upgrades faster. | ||
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Zetter
Germany629 Posts
On April 30 2014 18:40 Ghanburighan wrote: Wut? you do realize that they can be currently gotten directly after 11 finishes. And 33 after 22 finishes. So, if you don't get 11 any earlier, how on earth can you get 22 and 33 earlier by only changing the cost of 22 and 33? From what I remember seeing in tournaments, terran rarely gets 3/3 right after 2/2 finishes. | ||
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Bouy
France1 Post
- Increase the range of IEM - Give to IEM a snare effect on zergs units | ||
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
He could have looked into multiple things like: -Turret without the need for engineering bay -Oracle Speed -Timewarp and Recall -Protoss upgarde cost -Tanks and WM -Armory cost -Mutalisks regen/speed -Swarmhosts <-------- THIS So many things.. except somehow the terran upgrades were the issue all along. Its like as if Terran needed a break from spending less gas than they already do. | ||
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AaronChance
29 Posts
Terran turrets need an upgrade to increase their power in mid to late game. They're absurdly weak to muta flocks. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On April 30 2014 18:42 JorSharky wrote: TvZ main problem is the nerf of the WM in the first place. Revert the WM nerf and the problem will be solved. as for TvP the problem is protoss now can do all-ins or rush strategies without having to worry about any aggression from the terran due to the Nex-canon, the whole problem is in the MSC, unless they figure out away to nerf it, TvP will never be balanced! changing the upgrade cost will change almost nothing, in TvP in particular. The hellbats upgrade is necessary I believe, but with reverting the WM damage it will change the game too much. Blizzard always buff the Terran too much by the realse of the new expansion package, then spends all effort to nerf it until it's un-winnable! Same thing happened in WoL at its late stages, it only happened faster in HoTS! MY GOD NO ! I remember losing 50army supply on two mines. I don't have the reaction time of life. Two forgotten mines on the map have sometime been game changing in my own TvZ because i injected and lost my army | ||
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