EPTBalance Status Update 4/29/14 - Page 14
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MiniFotToss
China2430 Posts
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On April 30 2014 20:56 FFW_Rude wrote: I know that you are kind of right (kind of). But if normal people can't play the game because it's too hard. They lose interest. If they lose interest, why watch ? It's a tricky situation really. I'm not trying ot be an ass. I'm just trying to talk about this (and broken english doesn't help :p) There's lot of different opinions even in the pro scene of what should or should not be done. It's hard to have a list in mind of all the possibilities. People watched and loved BW for almost 15 years, hell they still do, and it's probably the hardest RTS ever played at a competitive level. How many people who watch champion's league can play football properly? It's all about the entertainment value for the viewer. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On April 30 2014 20:58 SC2Toastie wrote: Is Downfall what it stands for or is he just making that up? TheDwf is Downfall, good french GM terran  | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
I miss tanks in TvZ. It was so much fun to watch and play in WoL vs Ling/Bane/Muta. Why was the regen even added in HotS? I get the speed buff to catch up to boosted Medivacs but why was the regen needed? It just meant Tanks could be picked off without any cost to the Mutas. (and Zerg also has Blinding Cloud) | ||
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Creager
Germany1894 Posts
On April 30 2014 20:57 SC2Toastie wrote: I don't see why. Do you know that an aggressive scan of Terran can kill a huge area of creep tumors - which still means nothing because the creep will remain for 3 more minutes? T1 creep spew will easily become OP with roaches / expo denial / wall denial. I'm fine with a nerf to creep spread and a hive upgrade to make creep stronger again! That statement seems a little bit contradictionary to me :D But I agree ^^ It's not that I think creep is insanely OP, but Zerg players nowadays often don't seem to appreciate the luxuary of having such a wide and permanent field of vision, while Terrans struggle to restrain that to gain more options for harassment going through undetected. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25318 Posts
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On April 30 2014 21:05 Squat wrote: People watched and loved BW for almost 15 years, hell they still do, and it's probably the hardest RTS ever played at a competitive level. How many people who watch champion's league can play football properly? It's all about the entertainment value for the viewer. Yeah.. maybe you're right. One missclick can't kill you in BW. but.. yeah i think i'm talking crap. In fact i stopped playing and still watch so... you ARE right. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On April 30 2014 21:03 MiniFotToss wrote: bunch of terran noobs whining, toss was already nerfed, and terran is buffed, and now they 'buff' terran a bit more, this is insane, terran players don't suck, but toss and zerg players are just way ahead of the metagame, also, terran has been dominating in 2010, 2011, (a-bit of 2012) and 2013, NO-ONE complained, WHY ARE PPL COMPLAINING NOW THAT TERRANS ARE NOT IN THAT STAGE, toss sucked last year, like only 6-8 champions and fuking 15 for terran and 13 for zerg, no-one complained, now toss (and zerg, a bit) dominates and everyone complains, just shows how fked up terran players are, bunch of noobs really, im a toss and zerg player, im teling you, in my league terran is actually pretty hard to beat, its just you guys don't know how to play. And also, why continue to decrease the cost of terran army, no difference in time, and this upgrade affects vZ more than vP, because zergs can't get 3/3 as fast as terran due to hive issue, unless they deal critical amounts of damage in the early game, so Tosses are still not affected that much this 'buff' is useless against toss only against zerg, so still useless upgrade in TvP Yeah yeah, enjoy your warn. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
I wonder how removing the Cervos upgrade will do. Might be too strong in midgame TvZ, but this is where terran are lacking at the moment (mainly because of new mappool). In TvT it might change or might not, I don't see ForGG transforming his 20 hellions into hellbat in the middlle of the opponent's army tho. Will see. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On April 30 2014 21:11 Faust852 wrote: Upgrade buff seems useless but meh, you might have a bit more ressource to prod 2 marines or so. I wonder how removing the Cervos upgrade will do. Might be too strong in midgame TvZ, but this is where terran are lacking at the moment (mainly because of new mappool). In TvT it might change or might not, I don't see ForGG transforming his 20 hellions into hellbat in the middlle of the opponent's army tho. Will see. Not in the battle, of course; I meant before the engagement. | ||
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Lorch
Germany3683 Posts
On April 30 2014 20:56 FFW_Rude wrote: I know that you are kind of right (kind of). But if normal people can't play the game because it's too hard. They lose interest. If they lose interest, why watch ? It's a tricky situation really. I'm not trying ot be an ass. I'm just trying to talk about this (and broken english doesn't help :p) There's lot of different opinions even in the pro scene of what should or should not be done. It's hard to have a list in mind of all the possibilities. Well the majority of people who watched Brood War didn't really play Brood War. When they booted up the game they played UMS and only a small minority actually laddered continuously. This holds true for Korean fans and foreigners. Sadly Blizzard decided to launch the game without arcade and chat channels so a shit ton of people who'd be playing UMS are already gone. However, Starcraft 2 is one of the few games in eSports that has people watching who don't play. I don't necessarily believe one has to play to enjoy watching. I think eSports is about watching Progamers do shit that you can't even imagine doing yourself and having your mind blown by the insane skill level displayed in pro matches. Korean pros seem to mainly agree that leaving the game alone is the correct approach and, no offense to foreigners, but I'd much rather listen to the people playing this game 12+ hours a day in team houses over those playing from home for a couple hours a day. Sadly, Blizzard seems to prefer to mainly listen to caster feedback. I understand that the game needs to be approachable even for bad players, but if you loose a game under Diamond, no matter how broken the game is on a pro level, you probably lost it because you messed up more than your opponent, not because the game is too hard. | ||
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mostevil
United Kingdom611 Posts
On April 30 2014 19:48 TheDwf wrote: To fix TvZ, address the real concerns: - Halve muta regen. That's solid, the only problem with it is Blizzard really don't like reverting patches. They have weird pride/face issues. On April 30 2014 19:48 TheDwf wrote: - Have Drilling Claws (remember this upgrade isn't done before 14' at best) boost a bit the AoE to an intermediate state between the pre-nerf Mines and the current ones. For example this: Up to 1.25 radius: 40 (unchanged) From 1.25 to 1.5: 30 (up from 20) From 1.5 to 1.75: 15 (up from 10) I like the idea of a slight splash damage boost instead of drilling claws. But it has to be well balanced to the expected upgrade state. It can't be oneshotting 30 lings, it was way too severe an effect for an easily made micro error. Drilling claws seems a cheap as it opens up run mass mines under the army gimmicks. Forgetting to burrow your mines should be a bad mistake like failing to siege your tanks. If you reduce muta regen tanks become more viable again anyway and a tank mine mix can work fairly nicely. I think they need to go the other way, stop slashing upgrades and add a late game tank upgrade that increases tank splash. IF you want to push it later put it on the armoury instead of the tech lab so its a choice of mech/air ups or tanks (or more armouries). I like free servos, if it means hellbats need to lose a bit of hp or splash range to balance it that's fine, other than the transformers bit the units boring and pretty muich unmicroable anyway. | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On April 30 2014 21:03 MiniFotToss wrote: bunch of terran noobs whining, toss was already nerfed, and terran is buffed, and now they 'buff' terran a bit more, this is insane, terran players don't suck, but toss and zerg players are just way ahead of the metagame, also, terran has been dominating in 2010, 2011, (a-bit of 2012) and 2013, NO-ONE complained, WHY ARE PPL COMPLAINING NOW THAT TERRANS ARE NOT IN THAT STAGE, toss sucked last year, like only 6-8 champions and fuking 15 for terran and 13 for zerg, no-one complained, now toss (and zerg, a bit) dominates and everyone complains, just shows how fked up terran players are, bunch of noobs really, im a toss and zerg player, im teling you, in my league terran is actually pretty hard to beat, its just you guys don't know how to play. And also, why continue to decrease the cost of terran army, no difference in time, and this upgrade affects vZ more than vP, because zergs can't get 3/3 as fast as terran due to hive issue, unless they deal critical amounts of damage in the early game, so Tosses are still not affected that much this 'buff' is useless against toss only against zerg, so still useless upgrade in TvP Answer 1 (if you are joking): you spent 5 minutes of your precious life very well. Answer 2 (if you are serious): -Precedent statuses of the game are irrelevant balance-wise. -I can see that in ZvT there is a slight imbalance towards Z (nothing big obviously). -PvT is also slightly imbalanced towards P and it's very frustrating to play because coin flips -Your personal experience is not relevant when we speak about the top level And this comes from a Z player, for your information. | ||
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bGr.MetHiX
Bulgaria511 Posts
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
He is the inventor of the defensive bunker rush against zerg :D. | ||
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shivver
United States232 Posts
truth hurts and I guess I hit a sweet spot nofuksgiven/ User was warned for this post | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 30 2014 21:20 shivver wrote: haha I was "temporarily suspended" on the bnet forums for 4,166 days for "harassment" for stating that the best balance update that can happen to sc2 is the removal of david kim from the balance team just as diablo 3 did for jay wilson. truth hurts and I guess I hit a sweet spot nofuksgiven/ It just makes you a respectless pos, wouldn't be too proud of that. | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On April 30 2014 21:06 Wombat_NI wrote: Rofl aye that's it man Zerg and Protoss players just too damn smart It was amazing to watch how protoss would constantly outsmart terrans using nothing but blink stalkers. Clearly it was just a matter of insufficient intelligence on the part of the terrans. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25318 Posts
On April 30 2014 21:20 shivver wrote: haha I was "temporarily suspended" on the bnet forums for 4,166 days for "harassment" for stating that the best balance update that can happen to sc2 is the removal of david kim from the balance team just as diablo 3 did for jay wilson. truth hurts and I guess I hit a sweet spot nofuksgiven/ Careful folks, we have a badass amongst us. Relating back to thread, just watched Bbyongb vs Dark on Waystation, my first experience of that map. Another map that is IMO far, far too big. Can we have less sillily large maps and perhaps we'll see a difference | ||
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