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GSL Finals to be held on April 5th from GOM eXP studio - P…

Forum Index > SC2 General
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KelsierSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United Kingdom10443 Posts
April 01 2014 05:20 GMT
#121
So I am really pumped to watch the GSL final, think it is going to be a sick series.

But I kind of feel like the build up/ hype has been a bit...not sure

It's like hey guys wassup, btw finals is in 5 days kthxbye
Zerg for Life
TRaFFiC
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1448 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-01 08:02:36
April 01 2014 07:56 GMT
#122
+ Show Spoiler +


On March 31 2014 08:47 pure.Wasted wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2014 21:17 TRaFFiC wrote:
On March 30 2014 19:24 pure.Wasted wrote:
On March 30 2014 18:51 McRatyn wrote:
On March 30 2014 18:20 pure.Wasted wrote:
On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote:


Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.

Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego.


Can you point me to a series where he demonstrates some very serious, very obvious skill?

All of his GSL games (this season and last) have looked pretty mediocre to me. Yeah, he wins, but he doesn't do it by doing anything extraordinary. Like even vs. Life which was obviously an entertaining series, Life was always the one with the cooler moves (Nydus, proxy Spine) whereas soO just... plays... well. And not so well that it looks world-class. Just... well.

I'm more hyped about this season than last, but nowhere close to Inno vs. Soulkey levels.


Don't know about you but pure results hype me alomost as, if not the same, as "cool" play. And when you say that he wins with "mediocore" games, how does that make his opponents look like?


Well, considering the fact that the game is artificially balanced (as opposed to most physical sports), the possibility that it isn't balanced always exists and always will exist. That leaves the burden of proof of skill either on the players (to demonstrate) or the casters (to explain). soO's gotten to two finals, yeah that's kind of impressive, but then again Inca got to the finals. Are you gonna tell me Inca's skill rivals the skill of other GSL finalists? No, luck, balance, meta, and whatever else were on his side. I personally haven't seen omgwtf-level play out of soO and Artosis wasn't able to work his magic to explain what makes soO so good last season, so, I dunno what to tell you.

For me it takes Soulkey levels of consistency to like a player who doesn't always look spectacular while winning.


If you want to watch funky builds, go watch RuFF on twitch.tv and you'll see 1 base ghost builds, 2 base mech vs protoss, 4 port banshee, proxy mine drops etc. He's done very well for himself, but fact of the matter is he's a rank 30 gm on NA and probably wouldn't make gm on Korea. This game isn't about being flashy. It's about WINNING.


Which makes it even more impressive when players manage to win utilizing a signature style that others aren't able to pull off, ie. Life's lings, Kangho's Queens, Soulkey's aggressive Swarm Host, Scarlett's creep, Jaedong's Mutas, hyvaa's sOs-like insanity, DRG's eternal Lair tech and Roro's eternal turtle-mode in metas that don't favor them. Although I might hate Roro anyway just because.

Show nested quote +
You say he doesn't appear to be playing at a world class level. That's quite the assertion to make. Who are you? A gm player, talent scout, coach? Your opinion is controversial, but also likely worthless. He beat world class players to make it to where he is.


I didn't say soO's not a good player, I said he doesn't appear to be playing at a world class level. Obviously he is a good player. He might even be world class (though I seriously doubt it). But because he doesn't do anything flashy (like use micro-intensive units in a way that makes our heads spin, which is kind of a pre-req for world-class skill in my book), and because apparently the English commentators are fundamentally incapable of pointing out all of the right unflashy moves that he makes often enough to get to Code S finals twice, I won't have any way to know until he proves it with Soulkey-esque consistency.

The only way this is controversial is if you go into the game assuming both that it's perfectly balanced, and perfectly rewarding of skill, at all times. Both of those seem like faulty assumptions to me. There's a reason we have patches, and some units/strats inherently take more mechanical skill to pull off than their counter-strats, or vice versa. Or if you think that making it to two GSL finals during the same meta is hard proof of "world class skill" in and of itself. But unless your world class is big enough to include like 50 players (in which case that's not world class, that's just Koreans), I disagree.

Show nested quote +
Inca made it to the finals when the game was still young and not figured out. The meta game has evolved since then. The strategies are for the most part figured out. Soo is on one of the strongest teams in the world, competing in the hardest leagues in the world, playing the best players in the world etc. It's not even comparable the level of skill.


Every single thing you said about soO was true of Roro when he won his GSL at the end of WOL. Good team (less good than soO's), hardest league, playing best players (harder vs. lineup than soO's). And WOL was a lot more figured out then than HOTS is now. So I guess it's just an inarguable fact that Roro had world class skill and deserved to win a GSL...?

edit: let's bring some RL sports into this. If you followed Sochi Olympics hockey, you'd know that there was a lot of controversy around the way the subpar teams were playing. They played very defensive, boring hockey, because they knew they could never win a straight up game. Sound familiar? (In SC it's usually the opposite, inferior players play very aggressive games; but the idea is the same) These teams' hope was keeping the score 0-0 until the shootout, and in a shootout anything is possible. Viewers hated it and talked about changes the rules of the game to disencourage this style of play. Seriously. Changing the rules of hockey. They wanted to see manly macro hockey games where the inferior team lost in a way that demonstrated their inferiority.

And the inferior teams did lose. But if they had won, nobody would have said they were good teams. Winning is a lot, but it isn't everything.


@purewasted
I agree that it is impressive when a player can pull off a unique play-style in a high profile match. That is what most impresses me about SOS and Bomber. However, casters try and stereotype players and put them in strategical boxes because it makes the game more interesting and easier to understand for the newer viewers. That said, all the top players have those abilities and it is in any pro player's interest to branch their play out so as to not be predictable. In reality, these stereotypes have little more value than rascist ones like "All asian are smart." Scarlett isn't the only zerg who can spread creep and Life isn't the only top zerg who uses lings and counterattacks.

We are seeing "world class" as different things. For me, a player doesn't need to be consistent to be world class. Skill is in the present. How many people are in this group is open to interpretation.

I do believe the game is balanced. That's the way world class players see it too. It's hard to win when you think you're at a disadvantage. Notice in Flash's interviews he doesn't blame his losses on Protoss despite his trouble with that race.

As for boring play, I guess I'm just easily pleased. But I will say, with so much money on the line, I don't think a gsl finals is the time to break the meta (even though MVP did just that when he made bcs vs Squirtle).
2v2, 1v1, Zerg, Terran http://www.twitch.tv/trafficsc2
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