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HYPUUUU!!!!
Poll: WHO SHALL PREVAIL?Zest, the SKT Killer (204) 67% soO??? (101) 33% 305 total votes Your vote: WHO SHALL PREVAIL? (Vote): Zest, the SKT Killer (Vote): soO???
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soOjwa for another 2nd place?
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Zest ez 4-0 Royal Roader do it ! KT BEST TELEKOM!
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is zest pvz any good compared to pvp? i've watched like 30 pvp's from him no pvz
edit: nvm he won 9/10 of his last zergs :D
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is the Gom studio not too small for a finals?
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does zest get a sword if he wins?
i think you can win a sword in sc2
how do you get da sword?
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On March 29 2014 05:18 ffadicted wrote: is the Gom studio not too small for a finals? Yea o_o
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On March 29 2014 05:18 ffadicted wrote: is the Gom studio not too small for a finals?
I think they'd rather have an overflowing studio than a half-empty venue.
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I bet Zest takes it 4-2, despite the fact that soO has players like Rain, PartinG, and Classic to practice against.
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On March 29 2014 05:18 Incognoto wrote: does zest get a sword if he wins?
i think you can win a sword in sc2
how do you get da sword? zest has to preorder blizzcon tickets first
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On March 29 2014 05:18 Incognoto wrote: does zest get a sword if he wins?
i think you can win a sword in sc2
how do you get da sword? You get it for a royal road. Life got one as far as i know.
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On March 29 2014 05:18 ffadicted wrote: is the Gom studio not too small for a finals?
I think not, because the finals was guaranteed to be a PvZ. Before Maru was eliminated, they probably were still considering another venue.
Because neither Rain nor Life made it, I wonder if anyone really cares about this finals anymore.
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ugh gom why.. gom studio... TT
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I don't want another Kong, but I love watching Zest in Proleague... I'm torn
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On March 29 2014 05:22 absinthfee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2014 05:18 Incognoto wrote: does zest get a sword if he wins?
i think you can win a sword in sc2
how do you get da sword? You get it for a royal road. Life got one as far as i know.
mang, for once i'm going to root for zest (the P) then because swords are fucking awesome
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United States33432 Posts
pretty sdure they stopped giving swords out
dear didnt' get one
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Swords are only for pureblood esf players
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what, how incredibly lame?
oh well then back for rooting for soo then
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TT
Oh well, I'll still have a good time
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Swords and venues are too expensive, no money.
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United States33432 Posts
On March 29 2014 05:45 Noocta wrote: Swords and venues are too expensive, no money.
seriously, gladiatorial games almost bankrupted the roman empire a few times
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On March 29 2014 05:49 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2014 05:45 Noocta wrote: Swords and venues are too expensive, no money. seriously, gladiatorial games almost bankrupted the roman empire a few times
They should give him a Wooden sword if he wins it.
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Brunei Darussalam566 Posts
Here's hoping for an awesome series.
I cannot understand why people are complaining about the venue, unless they're actually Korean and are planning to attend yet tickets are sold out.
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On March 29 2014 05:31 Waxangel wrote: pretty sdure they stopped giving swords out
dear didnt' get one you have to slay The King to get a sword
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On March 29 2014 05:31 Waxangel wrote: pretty sdure they stopped giving swords out
dear didnt' get one
It was probably a cuz they made a special trophy for MVP if he won, so they kind of had to do something if Life won right?
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I guess they can't fill out a theater anymore.
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On March 29 2014 06:17 MrSexington wrote: I guess they can't fill out a theater anymore.
I dont think this is the problem. I think its more of them wanting more people to come to the venue.
Even when it was 2 no names, soO and Dear, facing off, they filled the entire venue to the doors.
Its probably just them wanting more people to become familiar with the studio as since they've changed locations less people, unless a group of death, have watched live.
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Zest looks more dominant and scarier than any player I can remember.
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Zest got this easy. He's just too strong right now, and he needs to continue his tradition of mauling SKT players.
It's a bit of a shame not do the finals in a larger venue, but I don't mind that much. The games should be as good either way.
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soO looks more "manful" i would say than any typical korean. SKT forever, go soO!
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On March 29 2014 06:26 Challengerr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2014 06:17 MrSexington wrote: I guess they can't fill out a theater anymore. I dont think this is the problem. I think its more of them wanting more people to come to the venue. Even when it was 2 no names, soO and Dear, facing off, they filled the entire venue to the doors. Its probably just them wanting more people to become familiar with the studio as since they've changed locations less people, unless a group of death, have watched live.
Are you sure less people have watched it live? This is by no means objective, but all I remember from the old studio are those empty silver-coloured chairs. The fact that the new studio is so much bigger (and also darker) might cause this impression that you're having, but I'm not sure.
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kinda disapointing cause if Life won against SoO then we would had have a Royal Roader vs previous Royal Roader final :/
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On March 29 2014 05:23 Shinespark wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2014 05:18 ffadicted wrote: is the Gom studio not too small for a finals? I think not, because the finals was guaranteed to be a PvZ. Before Maru was eliminated, they probably were still considering another venue. Because neither Rain nor Life made it, I wonder if anyone really cares about this finals anymore.
it's SKT vs. KT. that's a much bigger draw than Life, Maru, or just about anyone else.
it's a worrying decisions, no doubt.
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SKT doing poorly in proleauge 
Hoping for an SKT GSL champion
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I don't give a s**t about the studio as long as Zest wins!
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On March 29 2014 06:26 Challengerr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2014 06:17 MrSexington wrote: I guess they can't fill out a theater anymore. I dont think this is the problem. I think its more of them wanting more people to come to the venue. Even when it was 2 no names, soO and Dear, facing off, they filled the entire venue to the doors. Its probably just them wanting more people to become familiar with the studio as since they've changed locations less people, unless a group of death, have watched live. They gave out free hearthstone beta keys that day and that was when hearthstone beta keys were quite rare.
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Hoping for soO to win just because I'd like to see non Protoss win something big.
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I really wanted Life to make it to the finals but I'm still rooting for soO.
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please ho6ix... why not a bigger venue ;~;
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Zest PvZ are good to, his not a PvZ genius but he beat a lot of good Zergs in PL, so he can beat soO easily :D
Zest 4 - soO 2
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On March 29 2014 06:40 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: soO looks more "manful" i would say than any typical korean. SKT forever, go soO!
haha nice try
Zest to 4-0 with four cannon rushes.
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does that mean we won't get the cool intros with lots of smoke and rising platforms?
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These finals ain't that appealing, but I'll try to watch anyway. #passion
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I feel bad for Zest and soO.
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Well i would have loved a better venue for this, like everyone i believe...Not that the studio itself is bad tho... They shoulda have had a partnership with a foreign event and host it there :D
ANYWAYS GO SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !
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Was really hoping Life could find a way, but he'll be back next season. Now it's time for Zest to complete the cycle of him being potentially the number 1 player in the world at the moment. Not that i don't like soO I just don't want Zest's recent awesomeness being marred by a finals loss. Hyped either way!
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That's disappointing. Hopefully this is not going to be a trend.
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I bet if the finals was a TvZ or TvP they would've gotten a bigger venue. If it was PvP or ZvZ they would've just had the players play from their homes and stream it cause no one would show up
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TLADT24920 Posts
Going to watch this finals, been a while lol. Let's go soO! I better see Zest obliterated 4-0! :D
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dat spoiler alert. I was expecting something along the lines of Finals information only, instead I got a giant spoiler of the two players who advanced. Thanks I guess. =\
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On March 29 2014 10:59 zachMEISTER wrote: dat spoiler alert. I was expecting something along the lines of Finals information only, instead I got a giant spoiler of the two players who advanced. Thanks I guess. =\ Oh come on this is a Starcraft forum, they have to show the results sometime.
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On March 29 2014 11:07 Yorkie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2014 10:59 zachMEISTER wrote: dat spoiler alert. I was expecting something along the lines of Finals information only, instead I got a giant spoiler of the two players who advanced. Thanks I guess. =\ Oh come on this is a Starcraft forum, they have to show the results sometime.
Sometimes doesn't necessarily mean THE DAY OF THE MATCH. I even have spoiler free turned on to prevent myself from seeing this kind of shit. But whatever. Long live TL.
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I actually think Soo has a good shot here so I'm pretty excited for this finals. Not gonna be a curb stomp either way I feel. Obv rooting for Zest but Soo may be the only SKT player I kind of root for, for some strange reason. So I'lll be happy either way. KT all the way, but I'd feel a little bit bad for Soo if he fell in the finals twice. Here's to an exciting finals.
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Damn, having the finals at the studio, that's disappointing.
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Considering NASL just went bankrupt, you would think people would be understanding about cost saving. I like it. Just hope Gom is doing ok.
This will be a great finals. Hard to predict the winner between these 2 badasses.
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Oh I miss the days where they were able to afford Kpop girl groups =(
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On March 29 2014 05:23 Shinespark wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2014 05:18 ffadicted wrote: is the Gom studio not too small for a finals? I think not, because the finals was guaranteed to be a PvZ. Before Maru was eliminated, they probably were still considering another venue. Because neither Rain nor Life made it, I wonder if anyone really cares about this finals anymore.
I can confirm that a lot of people are very interested in this finals. If you're not, then don't watch.
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Zest is a beast, he should have this on lock and soO will suffer the Kong line curse. But I hope it becomes a competitive 4-3 for Zest.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
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no more money for an outside location?
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Would have prefered to see Life in the finals. But on the other side this gives us the chance to find new heroes. Go Soo for Zerg!
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This one goes to soO unfortunately :/
On March 29 2014 21:57 ArTiFaKs wrote: What a boring finals.
What a boring comment.
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On March 29 2014 21:57 ArTiFaKs wrote: What a boring finals. Yeah. I agree.
Well, good luck to both player and hopefully they don't just kinda disappear afterward. I hope SC2 was a little bit more stable with who won, though.
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Incoming soul train for all 4 games. Book it.
On March 29 2014 14:31 mrRoflpwn wrote: Oh I miss the days where they were able to afford Kpop girl groups =( Those were the days of GSL, when it actually meant something. Now Blizzard is just... bleh
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On March 30 2014 04:12 tshi wrote:Yeah. I agree. Well, good luck to both player and hopefully they don't just kinda disappear afterward. I hope SC2 was a little bit more stable with who won, though. SoO was in the last WCSKR finals...? That's pretty stable if you ask me.
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im glad they went for the studio, seeing empty chairs all over the place always kills the hype anyway
a fullpacked studio with risks of getting trampled by human masses is way more exciting ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
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I'm rooting for SoO but I think Zest will win this.
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On March 30 2014 04:45 nkr wrote: im glad they went for the studio, seeing empty chairs all over the place always kills the hype anyway
a fullpacked studio with risks of getting trampled by human masses is way more exciting ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ the previous GSL Final was packed though
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On March 30 2014 05:10 tomastaz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 04:45 nkr wrote: im glad they went for the studio, seeing empty chairs all over the place always kills the hype anyway
a fullpacked studio with risks of getting trampled by human masses is way more exciting ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ the previous GSL Final was packed though As much as I don't care about the players. I think the Korean still care a lot. So I would say GOM is simply cutting expenses
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Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego.
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On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego.
I will never admit soO is a good player after that game where he had 30 corruptors vs thors and lost
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On March 30 2014 06:08 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego. I will never admit soO is a good player after that game where he had 30 corruptors vs thors and lost If every player who had some stupid loss could never be considered a good player again, every single player would be shit.
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On March 30 2014 06:15 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 06:08 Dodgin wrote:On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego. I will never admit soO is a good player after that game where he had 30 corruptors vs thors and lost If every player who had some stupid loss could never be considered a good player again, every single player would be shit.
it happened to him consistently though.
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On March 30 2014 06:21 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 06:15 Squat wrote:On March 30 2014 06:08 Dodgin wrote:On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego. I will never admit soO is a good player after that game where he had 30 corruptors vs thors and lost If every player who had some stupid loss could never be considered a good player again, every single player would be shit. it happened to him consistently though. And now it no longer does. Players improve. Everyone laughed at JD when he switched over. Then suddenly he was in a blizzcon finals. The Soo that is playing Zest is a monster. The Soo that lost with corruptors to thors wasn't.
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I always think that soO is medicore too, i am not even sure why^^
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Going to two Code S finals in a row is an achivement in itself, especially when you're not Protoss. I say Soo's legit good.
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I always think that soO is medicore too, i am not even sure why^^
Probably because you just weren't aware of him, or how good he was. He's quiet and unassuming, but everyone who talks about him says his skill level is incredible.
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On March 30 2014 06:40 Squat wrote:Probably because you just weren't aware of him, or how good he was. He's quiet and unassuming, but everyone who talks about him says his skill level is incredible. Yeah i just wonder why sktt1 doesn't play him in proleague^^
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On March 30 2014 06:40 Squat wrote:Probably because you just weren't aware of him, or how good he was. He's quiet and unassuming, but everyone who talks about him says his skill level is incredible.
For me, I can rarely watch Korean tournaments because of timezones, but I read through almost all the threads, so that's usually how I base my opinions on players off of. When you had players like Innovation on the rise, you had tons of people gushing over his "sick micro" and "godlike play" and such, but when soO wins games, I almost never see people expressing amazement over his skills, so I'm always surprised when he consistently beats top players. The guy just isn't very hyped by the community.
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No big venue for the best event in the world which took more then 3 months I am very very sad about it The 1st ever finals without venue I just can not believe when I saw it on the screen during the stream I was like it is a mistake it just can not be the truth...
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On March 30 2014 06:27 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 06:21 Dodgin wrote:On March 30 2014 06:15 Squat wrote:On March 30 2014 06:08 Dodgin wrote:On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego. I will never admit soO is a good player after that game where he had 30 corruptors vs thors and lost If every player who had some stupid loss could never be considered a good player again, every single player would be shit. it happened to him consistently though. And now it no longer does. Players improve. Everyone laughed at JD when he switched over. Then suddenly he was in a blizzcon finals. The Soo that is playing Zest is a monster. The Soo that lost with corruptors to thors wasn't.
Zest is a bigger monster. RIP soO
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On March 30 2014 17:31 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 06:27 Squat wrote:On March 30 2014 06:21 Dodgin wrote:On March 30 2014 06:15 Squat wrote:On March 30 2014 06:08 Dodgin wrote:On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego. I will never admit soO is a good player after that game where he had 30 corruptors vs thors and lost If every player who had some stupid loss could never be considered a good player again, every single player would be shit. it happened to him consistently though. And now it no longer does. Players improve. Everyone laughed at JD when he switched over. Then suddenly he was in a blizzcon finals. The Soo that is playing Zest is a monster. The Soo that lost with corruptors to thors wasn't. Zest is a bigger monster. RIP soO
On one hand, we have a KT player who isn't flash. On the other hand we have an SKT zerg.
Paradox mode activated. Mind blown.
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On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego.
Can you point me to a series where he demonstrates some very serious, very obvious skill?
All of his GSL games (this season and last) have looked pretty mediocre to me. Yeah, he wins, but he doesn't do it by doing anything extraordinary. Like even vs. Life which was obviously an entertaining series, Life was always the one with the cooler moves (Nydus, proxy Spine) whereas soO just... plays... well. And not so well that it looks world-class. Just... well.
I'm more hyped about this season than last, but nowhere close to Inno vs. Soulkey levels.
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On March 30 2014 18:20 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego. Can you point me to a series where he demonstrates some very serious, very obvious skill? All of his GSL games (this season and last) have looked pretty mediocre to me. Yeah, he wins, but he doesn't do it by doing anything extraordinary. Like even vs. Life which was obviously an entertaining series, Life was always the one with the cooler moves (Nydus, proxy Spine) whereas soO just... plays... well. And not so well that it looks world-class. Just... well. I'm more hyped about this season than last, but nowhere close to Inno vs. Soulkey levels.
Don't know about you but pure results hype me alomost as, if not the same, as "cool" play. And when you say that he wins with "mediocore" games, how does that make his opponents look like?
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Anticlimatic location
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On March 30 2014 18:51 McRatyn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 18:20 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego. Can you point me to a series where he demonstrates some very serious, very obvious skill? All of his GSL games (this season and last) have looked pretty mediocre to me. Yeah, he wins, but he doesn't do it by doing anything extraordinary. Like even vs. Life which was obviously an entertaining series, Life was always the one with the cooler moves (Nydus, proxy Spine) whereas soO just... plays... well. And not so well that it looks world-class. Just... well. I'm more hyped about this season than last, but nowhere close to Inno vs. Soulkey levels. Don't know about you but pure results hype me alomost as, if not the same, as "cool" play. And when you say that he wins with "mediocore" games, how does that make his opponents look like?
Well, considering the fact that the game is artificially balanced (as opposed to most physical sports), the possibility that it isn't balanced always exists and always will exist. That leaves the burden of proof of skill either on the players (to demonstrate) or the casters (to explain). soO's gotten to two finals, yeah that's kind of impressive, but then again Inca got to the finals. Are you gonna tell me Inca's skill rivals the skill of other GSL finalists? No, luck, balance, meta, and whatever else were on his side. I personally haven't seen omgwtf-level play out of soO and Artosis wasn't able to work his magic to explain what makes soO so good last season, so, I dunno what to tell you.
For me it takes Soulkey levels of consistency to like a player who doesn't always look spectacular while winning.
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Fair point, you're just a little strickter than me when making consistency assumptions (And Soulkey is off the charts on that one) But when talking about balance surely we can conclude that beating protosses means winning against the balance not due to it can't we? Nothing to say about Inca though, started following pro SC since Life vs Mvp.
I expect a good match, and agree that the bigger venue may be held for the Global Championship (sorry if I mistook the name somehow)
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On March 30 2014 19:24 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 18:51 McRatyn wrote:On March 30 2014 18:20 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego. Can you point me to a series where he demonstrates some very serious, very obvious skill? All of his GSL games (this season and last) have looked pretty mediocre to me. Yeah, he wins, but he doesn't do it by doing anything extraordinary. Like even vs. Life which was obviously an entertaining series, Life was always the one with the cooler moves (Nydus, proxy Spine) whereas soO just... plays... well. And not so well that it looks world-class. Just... well. I'm more hyped about this season than last, but nowhere close to Inno vs. Soulkey levels. Don't know about you but pure results hype me alomost as, if not the same, as "cool" play. And when you say that he wins with "mediocore" games, how does that make his opponents look like? Well, considering the fact that the game is artificially balanced (as opposed to most physical sports), the possibility that it isn't balanced always exists and always will exist. That leaves the burden of proof of skill either on the players (to demonstrate) or the casters (to explain). soO's gotten to two finals, yeah that's kind of impressive, but then again Inca got to the finals. Are you gonna tell me Inca's skill rivals the skill of other GSL finalists? No, luck, balance, meta, and whatever else were on his side. I personally haven't seen omgwtf-level play out of soO and Artosis wasn't able to work his magic to explain what makes soO so good last season, so, I dunno what to tell you. For me it takes Soulkey levels of consistency to like a player who doesn't always look spectacular while winning.
If you want to watch funky builds, go watch RuFF on twitch.tv and you'll see 1 base ghost builds, 2 base mech vs protoss, 4 port banshee, proxy mine drops etc. He's done very well for himself, but fact of the matter is he's a rank 30 gm on NA and probably wouldn't make gm on Korea. This game isn't about being flashy. It's about WINNING.
You say he doesn't appear to be playing at a world class level. That's quite the assertion to make. Who are you? A gm player, talent scout, coach? Your opinion is controversial, but also likely worthless. He beat world class players to make it to where he is.
Inca made it to the finals when the game was still young and not figured out. The meta game has evolved since then. The strategies are for the most part figured out. Soo is on one of the strongest teams in the world, competing in the hardest leagues in the world, playing the best players in the world etc. It's not even comparable the level of skill.
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On March 30 2014 18:20 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego. Can you point me to a series where he demonstrates some very serious, very obvious skill? All of his GSL games (this season and last) have looked pretty mediocre to me. Yeah, he wins, but he doesn't do it by doing anything extraordinary. Like even vs. Life which was obviously an entertaining series, Life was always the one with the cooler moves (Nydus, proxy Spine) whereas soO just... plays... well. And not so well that it looks world-class. Just... well. I'm more hyped about this season than last, but nowhere close to Inno vs. Soulkey levels. No I'm afraid I can't, Soo doesn't do flashy, he does winning. His style it pretty much the epitome of solid, unspectacular yet highly effective.
I'm not saying you should be hyped, I'm not hyped at all, I've barely watched anything of the GSL this season because I've simply not cared. I'm saying Soo is way better than he's given credit for, better than other more popular zergs like Life, Curious, JD etc.
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So the finals are going to be representative of the season as a whole, huh.
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On March 30 2014 22:23 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 18:20 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego. Can you point me to a series where he demonstrates some very serious, very obvious skill? All of his GSL games (this season and last) have looked pretty mediocre to me. Yeah, he wins, but he doesn't do it by doing anything extraordinary. Like even vs. Life which was obviously an entertaining series, Life was always the one with the cooler moves (Nydus, proxy Spine) whereas soO just... plays... well. And not so well that it looks world-class. Just... well. I'm more hyped about this season than last, but nowhere close to Inno vs. Soulkey levels. No I'm afraid I can't, Soo doesn't do flashy, he does winning. His style it pretty much the epitome of solid, unspectacular yet highly effective. I'm not saying you should be hyped, I'm not hyped at all, I've barely watched anything of the GSL this season because I've simply not cared. I'm saying Soo is way better than he's given credit for, better than other more popular zergs like Life, Curious, JD etc. Yet we dont see him in proleague, there has to be a reason for this aswell i would think...
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On March 30 2014 23:05 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 22:23 Squat wrote:On March 30 2014 18:20 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego. Can you point me to a series where he demonstrates some very serious, very obvious skill? All of his GSL games (this season and last) have looked pretty mediocre to me. Yeah, he wins, but he doesn't do it by doing anything extraordinary. Like even vs. Life which was obviously an entertaining series, Life was always the one with the cooler moves (Nydus, proxy Spine) whereas soO just... plays... well. And not so well that it looks world-class. Just... well. I'm more hyped about this season than last, but nowhere close to Inno vs. Soulkey levels. No I'm afraid I can't, Soo doesn't do flashy, he does winning. His style it pretty much the epitome of solid, unspectacular yet highly effective. I'm not saying you should be hyped, I'm not hyped at all, I've barely watched anything of the GSL this season because I've simply not cared. I'm saying Soo is way better than he's given credit for, better than other more popular zergs like Life, Curious, JD etc. Yet we dont see him in proleague, there has to be a reason for this aswell i would think... Well there is obviously some reason. I just don't think it's a lack of ability. Perhaps they just haven't had to field him much, maybe he's being saved as a snipe, I dunno Kev.
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On March 30 2014 21:17 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 19:24 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 30 2014 18:51 McRatyn wrote:On March 30 2014 18:20 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego. Can you point me to a series where he demonstrates some very serious, very obvious skill? All of his GSL games (this season and last) have looked pretty mediocre to me. Yeah, he wins, but he doesn't do it by doing anything extraordinary. Like even vs. Life which was obviously an entertaining series, Life was always the one with the cooler moves (Nydus, proxy Spine) whereas soO just... plays... well. And not so well that it looks world-class. Just... well. I'm more hyped about this season than last, but nowhere close to Inno vs. Soulkey levels. Don't know about you but pure results hype me alomost as, if not the same, as "cool" play. And when you say that he wins with "mediocore" games, how does that make his opponents look like? Well, considering the fact that the game is artificially balanced (as opposed to most physical sports), the possibility that it isn't balanced always exists and always will exist. That leaves the burden of proof of skill either on the players (to demonstrate) or the casters (to explain). soO's gotten to two finals, yeah that's kind of impressive, but then again Inca got to the finals. Are you gonna tell me Inca's skill rivals the skill of other GSL finalists? No, luck, balance, meta, and whatever else were on his side. I personally haven't seen omgwtf-level play out of soO and Artosis wasn't able to work his magic to explain what makes soO so good last season, so, I dunno what to tell you. For me it takes Soulkey levels of consistency to like a player who doesn't always look spectacular while winning. If you want to watch funky builds, go watch RuFF on twitch.tv and you'll see 1 base ghost builds, 2 base mech vs protoss, 4 port banshee, proxy mine drops etc. He's done very well for himself, but fact of the matter is he's a rank 30 gm on NA and probably wouldn't make gm on Korea. This game isn't about being flashy. It's about WINNING. You say he doesn't appear to be playing at a world class level. That's quite the assertion to make. Who are you? A gm player, talent scout, coach? Your opinion is controversial, but also likely worthless. He beat world class players to make it to where he is. Inca made it to the finals when the game was still young and not figured out. The meta game has evolved since then. The strategies are for the most part figured out. Soo is on one of the strongest teams in the world, competing in the hardest leagues in the world, playing the best players in the world etc. It's not even comparable the level of skill. Hey don't insult inca, he was the pioneer of mind gaming 1 base dark Templar rushes vs all races.
And by mind gaming I mean doing them close to 100% of the time.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51492 Posts
SKT T1 Zerg......... ahaha xD
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Zest, the super rising star of KT, eclipsing even flash
soO, the two time consectutive finalist, seemingly soulkeys apprentice
no matter who wins it will be epic! :D
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zest for royal road soo for dong line
i believe!!
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I love how people are discussing Soo's skill rather than the actual finals themselves. He made it to the finals back to back, he is very good at this game, deal with it.
Sucks that there is no venue though.
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On March 31 2014 03:48 Lorch wrote: I love how people are discussing Soo's skill rather than the actual finals themselves. He made it to the finals back to back, he is very good at this game, deal with it.
Sucks that there is no venue though. The actual finals aren't interesting, everybody knows that KT > SKT
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On March 30 2014 21:17 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 19:24 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 30 2014 18:51 McRatyn wrote:On March 30 2014 18:20 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego. Can you point me to a series where he demonstrates some very serious, very obvious skill? All of his GSL games (this season and last) have looked pretty mediocre to me. Yeah, he wins, but he doesn't do it by doing anything extraordinary. Like even vs. Life which was obviously an entertaining series, Life was always the one with the cooler moves (Nydus, proxy Spine) whereas soO just... plays... well. And not so well that it looks world-class. Just... well. I'm more hyped about this season than last, but nowhere close to Inno vs. Soulkey levels. Don't know about you but pure results hype me alomost as, if not the same, as "cool" play. And when you say that he wins with "mediocore" games, how does that make his opponents look like? Well, considering the fact that the game is artificially balanced (as opposed to most physical sports), the possibility that it isn't balanced always exists and always will exist. That leaves the burden of proof of skill either on the players (to demonstrate) or the casters (to explain). soO's gotten to two finals, yeah that's kind of impressive, but then again Inca got to the finals. Are you gonna tell me Inca's skill rivals the skill of other GSL finalists? No, luck, balance, meta, and whatever else were on his side. I personally haven't seen omgwtf-level play out of soO and Artosis wasn't able to work his magic to explain what makes soO so good last season, so, I dunno what to tell you. For me it takes Soulkey levels of consistency to like a player who doesn't always look spectacular while winning. If you want to watch funky builds, go watch RuFF on twitch.tv and you'll see 1 base ghost builds, 2 base mech vs protoss, 4 port banshee, proxy mine drops etc. He's done very well for himself, but fact of the matter is he's a rank 30 gm on NA and probably wouldn't make gm on Korea. This game isn't about being flashy. It's about WINNING.
Which makes it even more impressive when players manage to win utilizing a signature style that others aren't able to pull off, ie. Life's lings, Kangho's Queens, Soulkey's aggressive Swarm Host, Scarlett's creep, Jaedong's Mutas, hyvaa's sOs-like insanity, DRG's eternal Lair tech and Roro's eternal turtle-mode in metas that don't favor them. Although I might hate Roro anyway just because.
You say he doesn't appear to be playing at a world class level. That's quite the assertion to make. Who are you? A gm player, talent scout, coach? Your opinion is controversial, but also likely worthless. He beat world class players to make it to where he is.
I didn't say soO's not a good player, I said he doesn't appear to be playing at a world class level. Obviously he is a good player. He might even be world class (though I seriously doubt it). But because he doesn't do anything flashy (like use micro-intensive units in a way that makes our heads spin, which is kind of a pre-req for world-class skill in my book), and because apparently the English commentators are fundamentally incapable of pointing out all of the right unflashy moves that he makes often enough to get to Code S finals twice, I won't have any way to know until he proves it with Soulkey-esque consistency.
The only way this is controversial is if you go into the game assuming both that it's perfectly balanced, and perfectly rewarding of skill, at all times. Both of those seem like faulty assumptions to me. There's a reason we have patches, and some units/strats inherently take more mechanical skill to pull off than their counter-strats, or vice versa. Or if you think that making it to two GSL finals during the same meta is hard proof of "world class skill" in and of itself. But unless your world class is big enough to include like 50 players (in which case that's not world class, that's just Koreans), I disagree.
Inca made it to the finals when the game was still young and not figured out. The meta game has evolved since then. The strategies are for the most part figured out. Soo is on one of the strongest teams in the world, competing in the hardest leagues in the world, playing the best players in the world etc. It's not even comparable the level of skill.
Every single thing you said about soO was true of Roro when he won his GSL at the end of WOL. Good team (less good than soO's), hardest league, playing best players (harder vs. lineup than soO's). And WOL was a lot more figured out then than HOTS is now. So I guess it's just an inarguable fact that Roro had world class skill and deserved to win a GSL...?
edit: let's bring some RL sports into this. If you followed Sochi Olympics hockey, you'd know that there was a lot of controversy around the way the subpar teams were playing. They played very defensive, boring hockey, because they knew they could never win a straight up game. Sound familiar? (In SC it's usually the opposite, inferior players play very aggressive games; but the idea is the same) These teams' hope was keeping the score 0-0 until the shootout, and in a shootout anything is possible. Viewers hated it and talked about changes the rules of the game to disencourage this style of play. Seriously. Changing the rules of hockey. They wanted to see manly macro hockey games where the inferior team lost in a way that demonstrated their inferiority.
And the inferior teams did lose. But if they had won, nobody would have said they were good teams. Winning is a lot, but it isn't everything.
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soO is a top zerg, there's no doubt about it. But other than him taking down list of great players, there is nothing much else to say about him.
Maybe we are all just waiting for that one epic game where his skill really shines among the others
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God I want Zest to win SO bad, first time I've wanted a Protoss to win this badly for a while :D
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On March 30 2014 19:24 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 18:51 McRatyn wrote:On March 30 2014 18:20 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote: Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego. Can you point me to a series where he demonstrates some very serious, very obvious skill? All of his GSL games (this season and last) have looked pretty mediocre to me. Yeah, he wins, but he doesn't do it by doing anything extraordinary. Like even vs. Life which was obviously an entertaining series, Life was always the one with the cooler moves (Nydus, proxy Spine) whereas soO just... plays... well. And not so well that it looks world-class. Just... well. I'm more hyped about this season than last, but nowhere close to Inno vs. Soulkey levels. Don't know about you but pure results hype me alomost as, if not the same, as "cool" play. And when you say that he wins with "mediocore" games, how does that make his opponents look like? Well, considering the fact that the game is artificially balanced (as opposed to most physical sports), the possibility that it isn't balanced always exists and always will exist. That leaves the burden of proof of skill either on the players (to demonstrate) or the casters (to explain). soO's gotten to two finals, yeah that's kind of impressive, but then again Inca got to the finals. Are you gonna tell me Inca's skill rivals the skill of other GSL finalists? No, luck, balance, meta, and whatever else were on his side. I personally haven't seen omgwtf-level play out of soO and Artosis wasn't able to work his magic to explain what makes soO so good last season, so, I dunno what to tell you. For me it takes Soulkey levels of consistency to like a player who doesn't always look spectacular while winning.
If you'd ask me in 2012, I'd have put Inca against Rainbow, TSL_Rain, Top, Losira, (way past his prime) July any day... Those were his contemporaries as GSL runner-ups and like it or not Inca was as good as them.
It's always taken a bit of luck to get into the finals, that's how tournaments go. I don't thinks soO making the finals back-to-back is exactly lucky though.
Anyways, I know what you mean about players who don't have the 'wow' factor but are consistent. I used to hate on Symbol and thought he was overrated because I thought he was pretty one-dimensional who got away with some terrible cheeses (like buliding a Nydus worm in vision of Innovation's buildings). But he was pretty consistent as SC2 players go, so eventually I had to accept that he was pretty decent. I think the real test for what makes a consistent player is simply - how do they do when they play against 'worse' players. Do they look struggle? Or do they just take care of business.
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for those saying soo is a so-so player... why not participate in kr gsl and lets see how you place yourself there... you probably won't even get on code a...
but still, an skt zerg will always be an skt zerg~ haha! ^_^
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On April 01 2014 07:39 riyanme wrote: for those saying soo is a so-so player... why not participate in kr gsl and lets see how you place yourself there... you probably won't even get on code a...
but still, an skt zerg will always be an skt zerg~ haha! ^_^ When will people stop making that argument?
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On April 01 2014 07:39 riyanme wrote: for those saying soo is a so-so player... why not participate in kr gsl and lets see how you place yourself there... you probably won't even get on code a...
but still, an skt zerg will always be an skt zerg~ haha! ^_^
Remember that when you watch a bad movie next time Become a movie director yourself or don't complain the movie sucked
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On April 01 2014 07:42 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 07:39 riyanme wrote: for those saying soo is a so-so player... why not participate in kr gsl and lets see how you place yourself there... you probably won't even get on code a...
but still, an skt zerg will always be an skt zerg~ haha! ^_^ When will people stop making that argument? 
anyway, im SOO ZEST up for the finals.... i really want zest to win...
why the heck is the venue on the studio??! a looming 'cataclysm' in gsl... tsk tsk...
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On March 29 2014 14:31 mrRoflpwn wrote: Oh I miss the days where they were able to afford Kpop girl groups =(
I miss those days too T_T
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
So I am really pumped to watch the GSL final, think it is going to be a sick series.
But I kind of feel like the build up/ hype has been a bit...not sure
It's like hey guys wassup, btw finals is in 5 days kthxbye
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 31 2014 08:47 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2014 21:17 TRaFFiC wrote:On March 30 2014 19:24 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 30 2014 18:51 McRatyn wrote:On March 30 2014 18:20 pure.Wasted wrote:On March 30 2014 06:01 Squat wrote:
Soo is one of the best 3-4 zergs in the world. He has better gamesense than Soulkey and almost as good understanding of zerg as Roro, along with top notch mechanics and a varied arsenal of different builds and styles. He is criminally underrated and would probably beat your favorite player black and blue while you are busy exclaiming "who the fuck is this guy!?" with a mixture of astonishment and despair.
Soo is legitimately one of the best players in Korea, haters can step on a lego. Can you point me to a series where he demonstrates some very serious, very obvious skill? All of his GSL games (this season and last) have looked pretty mediocre to me. Yeah, he wins, but he doesn't do it by doing anything extraordinary. Like even vs. Life which was obviously an entertaining series, Life was always the one with the cooler moves (Nydus, proxy Spine) whereas soO just... plays... well. And not so well that it looks world-class. Just... well. I'm more hyped about this season than last, but nowhere close to Inno vs. Soulkey levels. Don't know about you but pure results hype me alomost as, if not the same, as "cool" play. And when you say that he wins with "mediocore" games, how does that make his opponents look like? Well, considering the fact that the game is artificially balanced (as opposed to most physical sports), the possibility that it isn't balanced always exists and always will exist. That leaves the burden of proof of skill either on the players (to demonstrate) or the casters (to explain). soO's gotten to two finals, yeah that's kind of impressive, but then again Inca got to the finals. Are you gonna tell me Inca's skill rivals the skill of other GSL finalists? No, luck, balance, meta, and whatever else were on his side. I personally haven't seen omgwtf-level play out of soO and Artosis wasn't able to work his magic to explain what makes soO so good last season, so, I dunno what to tell you. For me it takes Soulkey levels of consistency to like a player who doesn't always look spectacular while winning. If you want to watch funky builds, go watch RuFF on twitch.tv and you'll see 1 base ghost builds, 2 base mech vs protoss, 4 port banshee, proxy mine drops etc. He's done very well for himself, but fact of the matter is he's a rank 30 gm on NA and probably wouldn't make gm on Korea. This game isn't about being flashy. It's about WINNING. Which makes it even more impressive when players manage to win utilizing a signature style that others aren't able to pull off, ie. Life's lings, Kangho's Queens, Soulkey's aggressive Swarm Host, Scarlett's creep, Jaedong's Mutas, hyvaa's sOs-like insanity, DRG's eternal Lair tech and Roro's eternal turtle-mode in metas that don't favor them. Although I might hate Roro anyway just because. Show nested quote +You say he doesn't appear to be playing at a world class level. That's quite the assertion to make. Who are you? A gm player, talent scout, coach? Your opinion is controversial, but also likely worthless. He beat world class players to make it to where he is. I didn't say soO's not a good player, I said he doesn't appear to be playing at a world class level. Obviously he is a good player. He might even be world class (though I seriously doubt it). But because he doesn't do anything flashy (like use micro-intensive units in a way that makes our heads spin, which is kind of a pre-req for world-class skill in my book), and because apparently the English commentators are fundamentally incapable of pointing out all of the right unflashy moves that he makes often enough to get to Code S finals twice, I won't have any way to know until he proves it with Soulkey-esque consistency. The only way this is controversial is if you go into the game assuming both that it's perfectly balanced, and perfectly rewarding of skill, at all times. Both of those seem like faulty assumptions to me. There's a reason we have patches, and some units/strats inherently take more mechanical skill to pull off than their counter-strats, or vice versa. Or if you think that making it to two GSL finals during the same meta is hard proof of "world class skill" in and of itself. But unless your world class is big enough to include like 50 players (in which case that's not world class, that's just Koreans), I disagree. Show nested quote +Inca made it to the finals when the game was still young and not figured out. The meta game has evolved since then. The strategies are for the most part figured out. Soo is on one of the strongest teams in the world, competing in the hardest leagues in the world, playing the best players in the world etc. It's not even comparable the level of skill. Every single thing you said about soO was true of Roro when he won his GSL at the end of WOL. Good team (less good than soO's), hardest league, playing best players (harder vs. lineup than soO's). And WOL was a lot more figured out then than HOTS is now. So I guess it's just an inarguable fact that Roro had world class skill and deserved to win a GSL...? edit: let's bring some RL sports into this. If you followed Sochi Olympics hockey, you'd know that there was a lot of controversy around the way the subpar teams were playing. They played very defensive, boring hockey, because they knew they could never win a straight up game. Sound familiar? (In SC it's usually the opposite, inferior players play very aggressive games; but the idea is the same) These teams' hope was keeping the score 0-0 until the shootout, and in a shootout anything is possible. Viewers hated it and talked about changes the rules of the game to disencourage this style of play. Seriously. Changing the rules of hockey. They wanted to see manly macro hockey games where the inferior team lost in a way that demonstrated their inferiority. And the inferior teams did lose. But if they had won, nobody would have said they were good teams. Winning is a lot, but it isn't everything. @purewasted I agree that it is impressive when a player can pull off a unique play-style in a high profile match. That is what most impresses me about SOS and Bomber. However, casters try and stereotype players and put them in strategical boxes because it makes the game more interesting and easier to understand for the newer viewers. That said, all the top players have those abilities and it is in any pro player's interest to branch their play out so as to not be predictable. In reality, these stereotypes have little more value than rascist ones like "All asian are smart." Scarlett isn't the only zerg who can spread creep and Life isn't the only top zerg who uses lings and counterattacks.
We are seeing "world class" as different things. For me, a player doesn't need to be consistent to be world class. Skill is in the present. How many people are in this group is open to interpretation.
I do believe the game is balanced. That's the way world class players see it too. It's hard to win when you think you're at a disadvantage. Notice in Flash's interviews he doesn't blame his losses on Protoss despite his trouble with that race.
As for boring play, I guess I'm just easily pleased. But I will say, with so much money on the line, I don't think a gsl finals is the time to break the meta (even though MVP did just that when he made bcs vs Squirtle).
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