EPTAlso I want Blizzard to put in more critters to roam around... and even an interactive environment would be nice.
New Ladder Maps for '14 Season 2 - Page 9
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aeligos
United States172 Posts
Also I want Blizzard to put in more critters to roam around... and even an interactive environment would be nice. | ||
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
On March 27 2014 23:03 Phaenoman wrote: Everytime I think they can't make the 2v2 maps worse than they already are, Blizzard teaches me better... "Crystal Pools" looks like they took a few minutes before making the news on bnet to create a map for 2v2 just to have a new one. Man I love 2v2 but the maps give me a headache.... Agreed, although I will say that the 3v3 and 4v4 map pools have gotten exponentially better since early WoL. (And they are actually making new ones which is a nice change). As someone who is a map maker and was top25 masters random in 4v4 and 3v3 for several seasons in WoL here are my thoughts on the team map pools: 2v2 I'm not sad to see Greystone Ravine and Hunting Grounds go, although I had a lot of fun games on hunting grounds. Greystone always felt like a half assed map with an odd expansion pattern, no flow and some really weird blink/proxy spots. Hunting Grounds i liked but I'll bet mutas and blink stalkers were way too strong, the expansion pattern had players with a huge ground distance between bases meaning air and fast units like ling/bling were strong. Crystal Pools ZT / ZP teams will find creep spread a miserable exercise here. Some of the map features like the island and central gold bases just feel random. The small ramp at the natural is an odd choice to me. The main's surface area is too great. Expect to see blink air and drop play here. There is little to no reward for venturing out onto the map for map control. Expect a lot of 2/4 base all ins. Nothing about this map inspires me. Katherine Square Blizzard is trying to encourage controlling the central highgrounds on this map, but then makes the wacky decision to include pocket expansions for both players. What could have been a great positional map is ruined by one gimmicky feature. I'd also point out that the size of many of the choke points makes no sense whatsoever. 3v3 I'm sad to see Queen's Nest go, it was one of the better separated base 3v3 maps imo. Vault of Secrets has outlived its useful life at this point having devolved into a muta/void ray map. Forbidden Sanctuary It's not clear to me where the start locations are on this map. Regardless, this is another map with a straight path to the enemy with a long back way around to a better attack path. None of the maps that have had this feature in the past have worked out very well. I forsee another devolution into air play as ground troops will be impossible to position. The strangest part of this map is that your own 4th base seems to be closer to the enemy than to you, which is rarely a good feature. Frozen Fields I actually like this map quite a bit, although I am worried the small size will prove problematic. The map basically forces players to expand along the top or bottom of the map turning the mid game into a very positional conflict. One problem however is that the distance between attack points for the attacker is shorter than the defender's distance. This means a well coordinated team can pressure at one end and then turn around and hit the other before the defending team can properly reposition. If this map were morphed so that it was long instead of wide it would be much better. This is another map where creep spread will be near impossible for non all-Z teams. 4v4 I never liked Celestial Bastion all that much so I'm fine with it going. I think megaton was a better map with all players sharing a spawn. Volcanic Ridge I liked but it was a tremendous Swarm Host map, so it had to go. Conduit Conduit is very interesting but I think its main attack paths are too skinny for 4v4 games. I do not feel that the 12 o clock high ground should be high ground as it serves as both a staging point for attacks and expansions. That said it does have the effect of making armies move around on the map for positioning, which is good. Sundered Isle This is my favorite new map out of all the new maps. The concept behind it was actually explored (discovered?) here on TL during one of our Map Jam contests. Here we have a mixed shared and separated main base map, where you have 2x1x1 spawns. One problem with this map is that the main bases have huge surface area, making blink play very strong. There is also not much in the way of attack paths just one middle and a few very out of the way expansions. I think it works very well overall but you might see some cheap strategies pop up here. | ||
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Caladan
Germany1238 Posts
AWESOME.  | ||
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RookUK
United Kingdom283 Posts
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Phaenoman
568 Posts
They say "XYZ is a new GSL map..." So GSL creates its maps and uses it at least a whole season without a huge test (at least I don't know anything about) There are plenty other nice maps that don't get the tiniest attention... Only maybe through TLMC... | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
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kinsky
Germany368 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
King Sejong Station: cool, Swarmhost heaven though Merry Go Round: annoying to take a third in some spawning scenarios, probably SUPER annoying to take a third in ZvT Waystation: godawful, the natural can only be walled with nexus walls, taking a third is impossible because of how Daedalusly open it is. Instant veto for me. Overgrowth: really fun map, really hard for zergs to hold a 3rd against well executed 2base protoss though. | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
Edit: I like how Olli thought the map where protoss had a hard time expanding was godawful, but the map where zerg is in the same situation is really fun. | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
I mean, one might say if one strat breaks a MU on a map, that the map is broken as a whole. | ||
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Salient
United States876 Posts
On March 27 2014 12:07 lichter wrote: Merry-go-round would be better if the map suddenly spins every 5 minutes so that players need to reorient themselves with directions Yes, Mr. Heavensbee. Let's see them tell time now! | ||
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sigm
192 Posts
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Lorch
Germany3683 Posts
On March 28 2014 01:15 Phaenoman wrote: I'd really like to know how Blizzard decides on maps they wanna use. Have these maps been played anywhere? If not, what makes those maps better than other maps that have not been tested but look solid at first glance? I mean, that Proleague map has been played in Proleague, ok. What about Overgrowth LE? I have never seen this being played before anywhere. Is it cuz it's made by Crux? They say "XYZ is a new GSL map..." So GSL creates its maps and uses it at least a whole season without a huge test (at least I don't know anything about) There are plenty other nice maps that don't get the tiniest attention... Only maybe through TLMC... Seriously you bitch about them using maps who are made by Koreans with years of experience who have created some of the best maps in SC2 history, which are tested in Korea before hand and yet it's fine to you that fucking Blizzard keeps making god awful maps and forces them on us? | ||
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S1eth
Austria221 Posts
On March 28 2014 02:32 Lorch wrote: Seriously you bitch about them using maps who are made by Koreans with years of experience who have created some of the best maps in SC2 history, which are tested in Korea before hand and yet it's fine to you that fucking Blizzard keeps making god awful maps and forces them on us? How can you say that Crux maps are tested beforehand when one of them is Metropolis (also Calm before the Storm)? And about the "best maps in SC2 history" part, it's more the case of: when you don't accept any map not made by Crux, it's a given that their maps will be "the best", because there aren't any others. At one point, Xel'Naga Caverns was the best SC2 map. | ||
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vult
United States9400 Posts
Cannot wait for the new season. Getting so sick of Yeonsu and Daedalus. | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
On March 28 2014 03:21 S1eth wrote: How can you say that Crux maps are tested beforehand when one of them is Metropolis (also Calm before the Storm)? And about the "best maps in SC2 history" part, it's more the case of: when you don't accept any map not made by Crux, it's a given that their maps will be "the best", because there aren't any others. This about nails it. I'm happy for the Crux guys, but the mapping community in general is still getting snubbed by Blizzard. Habitation Station was a happy accident thanks to the awesome Redbull guys willing to try something different. Total Biscuit also deserves a lot of credit with his current ShoutCraft series, though most of those maps are intentionally not meant for general ladder play. | ||
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Lorch
Germany3683 Posts
On March 28 2014 03:21 S1eth wrote: How can you say that Crux maps are tested beforehand when one of them is Metropolis (also Calm before the Storm)? And about the "best maps in SC2 history" part, it's more the case of: when you don't accept any map not made by Crux, it's a given that their maps will be "the best", because there aren't any others. At one point, Xel'Naga Caverns was the best SC2 map. There are Blizzard maps which are still god awful and keep being forced on us. And I would take both Crux maps you named over 95% of all maps Blizzard ever mad. Of course I'd much rather see them use community maps from outside of Korea, my point was just that rather than wanting to have foreign made maps over Crux maps I'd say we should replace Blizzard maps with foreign community maps. Obviously, if Blizzard was the company it should be we'd see them pay foreign community as well as Koreans to regularly make maps that would be play tested in a seperate Ladder and then, after taking community and pro gamer feedback into account, implemented into regular ladder. Sadly, Blizzard doesn't give a fuck about any map maker on the planet, including Koreans. The only reason the GSL maps got in is because Blizzard wants all WCS regions to have the same map pool and GOM wants to keep making maps. The PL map is probably in because enough Korean pros complained to them about not being able to practice PL maps on ladder. I'm just saying that we should be glad that they are atleast putting maps in that were not made by Blizzard and that we should push for Blizzard to stop making maps and replacing those with ones made from our community rather than hating on the fact that Korean map makers get to have their maps in. | ||
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Phaenoman
568 Posts
On March 28 2014 02:32 Lorch wrote: Seriously you bitch about them using maps who are made by Koreans with years of experience who have created some of the best maps in SC2 history, which are tested in Korea before hand and yet it's fine to you that fucking Blizzard keeps making god awful maps and forces them on us? Calm down and put a bridle on your tongue. Like u and most of the community here I hate Blizzard maps. There are so many good maps posted that haven't been touched even once by Blizzard. Even tho Crux and other Korean map makers do a pretty good job, there are so much more maps that deserve to get noticed and tried out. Definitly. My point was: Why are GSL maps good before testing, but we need to have a TLMC to have one map that stands out that is made by the community. The maps here are not worse. They deserve the same attention. Blizzard needs to fix this whole map politics. BUT: They have improved quite a lot in past since we see more non-Blizzard maps. Nevertheless there are still aspects that I don't understand. Blizzard should definitly stop making maps or ask if they wanna include them. Or they should start making maps that are useful... | ||
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