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Johan ' NaNiwa' Lucchesi, Swedish Protoss player, is the star of the 18th episode of my 'Reflections' interview series.
Time line of topics discussed:
00:06 Intro
00:29 Was NaNiwa bad tempered or a bad loser as a kid?
01:51 NaNiwa's competitive motivation stemming from his parents.
02:45 Was there a sport he dreamed of being a pro at?
04:34 If he had been more successful in WC3, would it be his favourite RTS?
06:30 Why NaNiwa was a super cheesy player early in SC2.
08:39 Was there a set amount of practice in place in the early days (late 2010 to early 2011)?
10:06 Practicing a lot initially in Korea and not having results for a while there.
12:15 How much did he practice during his times in Korea?
15:38 Could he play custom games with players in the StarTale house? How did he practice?
17:18 Would staying at StarTale have been ideal for him?
18:40 Koreans not being willing to help foreigners who are going to face Koreans.
21:55 Did it hold him back that he couldn't get proper team help from the Koreans?
23:36 If NaNiwa embraced Korean culture and pretended to be super respectful, could he have been accepted by the Koreans?
26:22 When he was ranked 3rd in the Korean GM league were all the other players near the top the best tournament players?
27:48 Were other Koreans in the team house impressed when he was ranked 3rd?
29:24 Why could he not translate ladder success to tournament wins?
31:06 If NaNiwa was ranked 3rd at his peak, where were other foreigners (SaSe, Snute, Scarlett, HuK etc.)?
32:25 When top Koreans dropped off in results did their ladder rankings follow suit?
34:03 Why are top Koreans' GSL results so up and down?
36:08 How much did he play when at the EG-TL house?
37:43 Did other Koreans from other teams ask him for practice when he was top ranked?
38:53 NA players on the West Coast being able to practice on the Korean ladder without lag, if they wanted to.
41:40 Foreigners going to Korea and having a low win-rate initially.
43:21 Has he ever felt a limit in SC2 due to his APM?
45:50 The perception that Protoss doesn't require as much APM.
47:54 Do Protoss players have to gamble?
49:35 Contrasting StarDust and sOs.
52:25 What changed for NaNiwa in 2013?
54:45 Losing love for SC2.
57:27 What he likes about League of Legends.
57:45 Is Faker more skilled/talented than someone like Scarlett?
59:53 Why doesn't he prefer Dota2?
1:01:18 Why doesn't he ask the Alliance Dota2 players to help him out?
1:02:12 Final words/Outro.
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Two biggest IEM stars in one vid, simply amazing!
//
Not a bad interview.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Great interview.
Also Darkhoarse, Alive was ranked hihgly on ladder and Innovation asked him for practice.
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A racist interviewing a rage quitter. Nice combo, but I'll spend my time doing other things.
User was warned for this post
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haha, Naniwa always cracks himself up in conversations.
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It's really interesting hearing him talk about Korea.
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On March 22 2014 07:02 Arnstein wrote:
A racist interviewing a rage quitter. Nice combo, but I'll spend my time doing other things.
Why even bother commenting?
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On March 22 2014 07:08 Grobyc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 07:02 Arnstein wrote:
A racist interviewing a rage quitter. Nice combo, but I'll spend my time doing other things. Why even bother commenting?
Clearly to show his disgust.
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He puts on a smile, that's good at least
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On March 22 2014 07:08 Grobyc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 07:02 Arnstein wrote:
A racist interviewing a rage quitter. Nice combo, but I'll spend my time doing other things. Why even bother commenting?
To let unaware people know?
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On March 22 2014 07:08 Grobyc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 07:02 Arnstein wrote:
A racist interviewing a rage quitter. Nice combo, but I'll spend my time doing other things. Why even bother commenting?
he is one of Naniwa's biggest marks
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On March 22 2014 07:09 Furikawari wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 07:08 Grobyc wrote:On March 22 2014 07:02 Arnstein wrote:
A racist interviewing a rage quitter. Nice combo, but I'll spend my time doing other things. Why even bother commenting? To let unaware people know?
Could at least elaborate. I have no idea what he's talking about other than the Naniwa IEM incident. Not very informative as is. What's with this racism? I also don't see how an interview that involves a rage quitter invalidates the interest of the interview. Not sure if it was Thorin who did the extensive retirement interview with IdrA but that was one of the best, most detailed interviews I've ever seen and enjoyed it thoroughly.
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You know, Esport has a whole has made me very puzzled about Korean culture.
That country just seem to have a lot of problems.
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
I am a bit confused by this interview. At first he says he did inhouse practice with the other startale members and that squirtle would look at his replays and help him out. Then later he says he only practiced on the ladder and he played 10~ custom games in a year with korean players and nobody gave him any help?
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On March 22 2014 07:13 Noocta wrote:
You know, Esport has a whole has made me very puzzled about Korean culture.
That country just seem to have a lot of problems.
Well, economy wise it has been one of the fastest growing countries for decades.
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On March 22 2014 07:02 Arnstein wrote:
A racist interviewing a rage quitter. Nice combo, but I'll spend my time doing other things.
How is he a racist
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On March 22 2014 07:18 MaTRiX[SiN] wrote:
I am a bit confused by this interview. At first he says he did inhouse practice with the other startale members and that squirtle would look at his replays and help him out. Then later he says he only practiced on the ladder and he played 10~ custom games in a year with korean players and nobody gave him any help?
probably at the very beginning of his arrival he did inhouse practice, and less and less as time went on.
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He raged because he lost a game of risk against his grandma hhehhehe
I know that sounds sad, but it is funny as hell too :D
If you get motivation to do something well, than it seems ok to me haha
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United States23455 Posts
On March 22 2014 06:58 stuchiu wrote:
Great interview.
Also Darkhoarse, Alive was ranked hihgly on ladder and Innovation asked him for practice.
Is this discussed in the interview? If so what part?
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Huh, the two guys that got burned by/burned themselves out of IEM got together and did something productive.
Good on them both.
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On March 22 2014 07:11 Grobyc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 07:09 Furikawari wrote:On March 22 2014 07:08 Grobyc wrote:On March 22 2014 07:02 Arnstein wrote:
A racist interviewing a rage quitter. Nice combo, but I'll spend my time doing other things. Why even bother commenting? To let unaware people know? Could at least elaborate. I have no idea what he's talking about other than the Naniwa IEM incident. Not very informative as is. What's with this racism? I also don't see how an interview that involves a rage quitter invalidates the interest of the interview. Not sure if it was Thorin who did the extensive retirement interview with IdrA but that was one of the best, most detailed interviews I've ever seen and enjoyed it thoroughly.
Thorin made remarks about Poland as a country and about the Polish people that much of the community thinks/thought were both racist and offensive during a recent episode of ChanmanV's show, "Unfiltered," shortly before the start of IEM Katowice (in Poland) where he was set to cast CS:GO for ESL. The offense was considered to be in particularly poor taste since Carmac, ESL's Managing Director of Progaming, is also Polish. Subsequently, ESL announced that he would not be allowed to cast the event and issued a statement condemning his remarks and his attitude.
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United States23455 Posts
On March 22 2014 07:39 darkscream wrote:
Huh, the two guys that got burned by/burned themselves out of IEM got together and did something productive.
Good on them both.
Kinda think both of these guys burned themselves with IEM.
For those wondering what the "racist" comment about Thorin was about, http://www.esportsheaven.com/news/64245/thorin-from-unfiltered-to-unemployed. Judge the comments for yourself I guess I dunno where I stand on them.
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"show me a good loser, and i'll show you a loser", Vince Lombardi
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Naniwa this, Naniwa that...can we finally bury the dead horse please? He is gone for good finally.
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Absolutely amazing interview. Well done yet again Thoorin, you really are the best at this. Also, it sounds to me like Naniwa is just not passionate about the game at the moment but that it could change in the future, so I'm guessing if he grows bored of League he might give SC2 a shot again, and hopefully by then the game has changed. I agree with him that the game is not the game it used to be (and for me personally, not the game i used to love).
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Glad he praises our God and savior Faker.
It's sad to see him go, he sure made the scene a lot more interesting.
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ironic. he calls out polish racism (the football comment) which I have experienced as a non-white person firsthand and is also in my humble opinion 50 years behind the rest of europe in its potency; while being racist in his other remarks. so counterproductive, if he had only said that it would have been a good comment/rebuke to polish people that they needed from a white guy. but yeah the other comments were not a good idea. pretty sure no one will think on this since he is so easily shat on with how he talked in general.
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On March 22 2014 07:18 MaTRiX[SiN] wrote:
I am a bit confused by this interview. At first he says he did inhouse practice with the other startale members and that squirtle would look at his replays and help him out. Then later he says he only practiced on the ladder and he played 10~ custom games in a year with korean players and nobody gave him any help?
just listen to it again.
in the startale house he did have help, and in the other team house (he states he has been to more than just one) he didnt have any help
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On March 22 2014 07:44 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 07:39 darkscream wrote:
Huh, the two guys that got burned by/burned themselves out of IEM got together and did something productive.
Good on them both. Kinda think both of these guys burned themselves with IEM. For those wondering what the "racist" comment about Thorin was about, http://www.esportsheaven.com/news/64245/thorin-from-unfiltered-to-unemployed. Judge the comments for yourself I guess I dunno where I stand on them.
wow, that's some fucked up shit right there
IEM Katowice, the heart of E-Drama
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Well evrything is fine, whn blizz will fix OP Terran and Zerg and buff so weak Toss he will come back train for 2 weeks and own evry1 for easy money.
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On March 22 2014 08:12 Flamehaze wrote:
Well evrything is fine, whn blizz will fix OP Terran and Zerg and buff so weak Toss he will come back train for 2 weeks and own evry1 for easy money.
Naniwa's 'retirement' has nothing to do with balance at all.
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Enjoyed the interview, thanks.
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On March 22 2014 08:13 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 08:12 Flamehaze wrote:
Well evrything is fine, whn blizz will fix OP Terran and Zerg and buff so weak Toss he will come back train for 2 weeks and own evry1 for easy money. Naniwa's 'retirement' has nothing to do with balance at all.
Its more about game-design isn't it?
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
On March 22 2014 08:12 Nekronaut wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 07:18 MaTRiX[SiN] wrote:
I am a bit confused by this interview. At first he says he did inhouse practice with the other startale members and that squirtle would look at his replays and help him out. Then later he says he only practiced on the ladder and he played 10~ custom games in a year with korean players and nobody gave him any help? just listen to it again. in the startale house he did have help, and in the other team house (he states he has been to more than just one) he didnt have any help
Listened to it again, he said that he and sase played 10 custom games with the startale members in 1 year but he also said "considering the amount of practice we did in the later stages", so it sounds like something happened that made them not want to help him anymore? Was it after he made it into the code s that they didnt want to help him practice?
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He always says like that just after losing games. You clearly haven't watched the interview in the OP.
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...And that picture is from 10 months ago so...? Naniwa has always whined about swarmhost and by now everyone should already know about this, but was it because of the balance reasons? Not in my opinion. Rather it was because how the unit is designed.
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The player doesn't work for me 
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Oki i rest my case your right it was couse of game design, but np he still can go back in few months train for 2 weeks and be best.
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As it's called post-IEM I thought I'll find something about the IEM incident. I guess no "reflections" for NaNiwa on that topic.
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I can't believe Naniwai said he doesn't respect his opponents, that's a horrible attitude. I think polt deserves some respects for the schooling he gave.
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On March 22 2014 07:13 Noocta wrote:
You know, Esport has a whole has made me very puzzled about Korean culture.
That country just seem to have a lot of problems.
Different culture, different values and a bit of a chip on the shoulder relative to China and Japan.
Remarkable how they've developed in the past 50 years.
Interesting Interview. Only 1/3 through need to take a break heh. If he had a little more charisma or social sense could have made a good focus for a documentary.
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On March 22 2014 07:44 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 07:39 darkscream wrote:
Huh, the two guys that got burned by/burned themselves out of IEM got together and did something productive.
Good on them both. Kinda think both of these guys burned themselves with IEM. For those wondering what the "racist" comment about Thorin was about, http://www.esportsheaven.com/news/64245/thorin-from-unfiltered-to-unemployed. Judge the comments for yourself I guess I dunno where I stand on them.
Funny thing is, most of what he said is actually true. I don't see how anyone in Poland can be offended by those comments, it's true. And it's true for them, it's true for my country (Slovakia), it's true for Czech Republic, Ukraine, all the ex-Soviet Union states. Poland is probably the most developed out of all of them, but we all still have A LOT to catch up to (and also there is a lot of what just can stay in the west and shouldn't ever come).
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I enjoyed the Grilled episode back in june/july last year and I enjoyed this one too a lot. That's all.
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On March 22 2014 08:31 MaTRiX[SiN] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 08:12 Nekronaut wrote:On March 22 2014 07:18 MaTRiX[SiN] wrote:
I am a bit confused by this interview. At first he says he did inhouse practice with the other startale members and that squirtle would look at his replays and help him out. Then later he says he only practiced on the ladder and he played 10~ custom games in a year with korean players and nobody gave him any help? just listen to it again. in the startale house he did have help, and in the other team house (he states he has been to more than just one) he didnt have any help Listened to it again, he said that he and sase played 10 custom games with the startale members in 1 year but he also said "considering the amount of practice we did in the later stages", so it sounds like something happened that made them not want to help him anymore? Was it after he made it into the code s that they didnt want to help him practice?
I think it's rather that Naniwa and sase didn't want to practice with the koreans. Naniwa said something about practicing with Polt for his match against MVP where MVP pretty much blind counters him. He believes it's a possibility that his replays got shared with his opponents more than once.
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On March 22 2014 08:52 Ammanas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 07:44 Darkhorse wrote:On March 22 2014 07:39 darkscream wrote:
Huh, the two guys that got burned by/burned themselves out of IEM got together and did something productive.
Good on them both. Kinda think both of these guys burned themselves with IEM. For those wondering what the "racist" comment about Thorin was about, http://www.esportsheaven.com/news/64245/thorin-from-unfiltered-to-unemployed. Judge the comments for yourself I guess I dunno where I stand on them. Funny thing is, most of what he said is actually true. I don't see how anyone in Poland can be offended by those comments, it's true. And it's true for them, it's true for my country (Slovakia), it's true for Czech Republic, Ukraine, all the ex-Soviet Union states. Poland is probably the most developed out of all of them, but we all still have A LOT to catch up to (and also there is a lot of what just can stay in the west and shouldn't ever come).
“Put it this way, it’s another place also where there’s constantly news stories where at their football games they have straight up racism aimed at all black players, with the whole crowd like chanting stuff or throwing banana peels. That happened like 50 years ago in the developed European countries - that shit happens, like, now in Poland.”
It's disappointing that someone who calls out actual racism gets called a racist.
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One hour? That's a bit...excessive o.O
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I'd rather listen to a Thorin interview than watch SC 2 or play it. Well done.
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On March 22 2014 07:44 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 07:39 darkscream wrote:
Huh, the two guys that got burned by/burned themselves out of IEM got together and did something productive.
Good on them both. Kinda think both of these guys burned themselves with IEM. For those wondering what the "racist" comment about Thorin was about, http://www.esportsheaven.com/news/64245/thorin-from-unfiltered-to-unemployed. Judge the comments for yourself I guess I dunno where I stand on them.
Forgive me - I have no context - but from the quotes in this article it sounds more like he was calling into question the infrastructure of Poland as a whole rather than hating on the Polish as a race? As evidenced by the "Like, the second they opened that up everyone in Poland was just like “Cool, let’s get the fuck out of Poland” and they just went to the next countries." comment. He's not saying Poles are inferior - he's saying they for some reason are anxious to leave their home country and it's probably not just for a change of scenery. This is actually true too - if you look at immigration statistics in other European countries (e.g. Norway) Polish immigration is like super high (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway#Immigration) - and it's definitely not the same as saying that other Europeans are superior to Polish, or that Polish people are inferior.
I don't think remarking on the infrastructure or world status of a country is the same as racism. A lot of African countries are dirt poor - its a sad truth. Does that meant the inhabitants are worse than other humans? Obviously not. Does that mean ALL African countries are dirt poor? Certainly not. There is nothing to be gained though by ignoring world problems (poverty in Africa, corruption in America, etc). These problems are not necessarily indicative of the entire population of those countries - that is to say, not all US politicians are in the pocket of corporate interests, but a huge number are - but stepping around them for the sake of perceived "racism" is not going to help those inhabitants.
There is a huge difference between a factual statement and racism. Populations which have historically lived at high altitudes are in fact physically better at oxygenation than other populations. Does that mean Tibetans are superior to Louisianans? Well actually in that specific physical aspect, yes, but in a general sense, absolutely not. These differences/adaptations are what make the Human population and indeed life in general so goddamned awesome. Saying that a Louisianan is going to have serious problems compared to a native Tibetan if they are both placed without preparation on the summit of an incredibly high mountain is not racist, its a factual statement. Saying that Louisianans are inferior to Tibetans in general is a racist statement. Similarly, stating that Poland is having problems as a country is not the same as saying that Polish people are problems. Saying that all Polish people are racist is inherently racist, saying that Poland has a problem with institutional racism is not.
Humans are great!
<3 Argh
Edit: My open Wiki tabs after writing this - for those who are interested;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_adaptation_in_humans#Physiological_basis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana (For the Demonym)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
Additional note - I used Louisiana as a contrast to high-altitude populations as a good deal of the geography is at or below sea-level. A good European equivalent might be the Netherlands. If anyone knows additional areas of the world where the geography is similar, I would be interested to know.
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Great episode. And it's good closure because I'm such a Nani fan.
Best wishes to you Naniwa <3
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Finally saw what Thorin said, and I don't see how the Pols saw this as racism.
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That was a good interview. One of the better ones I have seen in SC2. Thanks.
Good luck to you, Naniwa. Go well.
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On March 22 2014 09:38 t e a C h e r wrote:
Finally saw what Thorin said, and I don't see how the Pols saw this as racism.
calling somebody backwards, racist, undeveloped, their country sh*t and their citizens dying to leave....yeah, totally not racist or at all discriminatory
/sarcasm
That said, the actual interview NOT touching on his IEM disrespectful garbage "play" is, in itself, extremely misleading and unwelcome.
Junk thread with a junk link to a junk interview between 2 junk esports figures
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hmm i definetely like his attitude and he also seems like a very honest person which was what i liked about idra so much.
a very dedicated personality.
i hope he comes back one day and gives sc2 another try. the foreign sc2 world needs people like these.
was interesting to get to know how koreans think about foreigners and how they interact or rather not interact with them.
all in all a great interview, a lot of insightful content.
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On March 22 2014 09:38 t e a C h e r wrote:
Finally saw what Thorin said, and I don't see how the Pols saw this as racism.
"Esports is filling that essential hole of being polish" is a pretty harsh thing to say to a country that withstood the combined effort of the sowjet union and the Third Reich to destroy Poland's existence as a country.
He makes it sound like you would be less of a person because you're polish. I think thats where he crossed the line to racism.
The rest is probably true (never been to poland) but he presented it in such a condescending manner that i can understand that IEM didnt want to have him at the analysis desk for cs go at Katowice in front of a huge polish crowd which he just insulted a couple days before. You're free to behave like a douche but then you shouldnt be surprised when people dont want to hang out with you anymore.
EDIT: just realized that this is a conversation between 2 people that just lost a job.
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i love your stuff thorin, thanks for this
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On March 22 2014 08:57 Cheren wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 08:52 Ammanas wrote:On March 22 2014 07:44 Darkhorse wrote:On March 22 2014 07:39 darkscream wrote:
Huh, the two guys that got burned by/burned themselves out of IEM got together and did something productive.
Good on them both. Kinda think both of these guys burned themselves with IEM. For those wondering what the "racist" comment about Thorin was about, http://www.esportsheaven.com/news/64245/thorin-from-unfiltered-to-unemployed. Judge the comments for yourself I guess I dunno where I stand on them. Funny thing is, most of what he said is actually true. I don't see how anyone in Poland can be offended by those comments, it's true. And it's true for them, it's true for my country (Slovakia), it's true for Czech Republic, Ukraine, all the ex-Soviet Union states. Poland is probably the most developed out of all of them, but we all still have A LOT to catch up to (and also there is a lot of what just can stay in the west and shouldn't ever come). Show nested quote +“Put it this way, it’s another place also where there’s constantly news stories where at their football games they have straight up racism aimed at all black players, with the whole crowd like chanting stuff or throwing banana peels. That happened like 50 years ago in the developed European countries - that shit happens, like, now in Poland.” It's disappointing that someone who calls out actual racism gets called a racist.
It got confusing when racism stopped being only about ethnicity.
On topic: Thorin says some thing though that are at the very least generalizing about the Polish. And to say such things before going to a tournament in Poland is just very stupid.
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Great stuff as always Thorin!
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On March 22 2014 08:57 Cheren wrote:Show nested quote +“Put it this way, it’s another place also where there’s constantly news stories where at their football games they have straight up racism aimed at all black players, with the whole crowd like chanting stuff or throwing banana peels. That happened like 50 years ago in the developed European countries - that shit happens, like, now in Poland.” It's disappointing that someone who calls out actual racism gets called a racist.
Yeah I'm sure we should praise him as our hero who was brave enough to CALL OUT ACTUAL RACISM. Not! The racist in football was last brought up before EURO 2012 (football championships which took place in Poland & Ukraine) and it was brought up not as a recent accident but just a warning for public (it was western media complaining at thing that turned out to be thing of the past). FYI nothing like that happend during the championships.
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Two garbage cans, one dumber than the other.
User was warned for this post
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look what thorin said is not untrue, just the way he said it is stupid. not sure why he said what he said at all.
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Really nice. Thanks Thorin !
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Drinking game: Drink everytime they say "like". You'll be wasted 10 minutes into the interview.
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On March 22 2014 10:03 zev318 wrote:
look what thorin said is not untrue, just the way he said it is stupid. not sure why he said what he said at all.
What he said was pretty stupid and uneducated as well (it's pretty easy to argue by historical/economical facts).
I guess he could have put it in a polite way and it would have been just some critical point of view. But that would also greatly alter what he said. It's not like he "just wanted to point out that Poland isn't quite at the economical level of Germany yet". Then he would have chosen such words instead of drawing some pretty nasty pictures.
Nevertheless, I liked the interview. In those moments when Naniwa steps down from his egocentric views it becomes quite informative. And this interview had many of those moments.
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One important point was missing imo. He didn't ask him about his immediate future. He was kicked off, doesn't have a job, so what's gonna pay the bills? Winnings/salery from the past till he goes bankrupt? Streaming his solo jungling adventures in LoL? I think this would have been an interesting topic.
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On March 22 2014 07:42 looknohands119 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 07:11 Grobyc wrote:On March 22 2014 07:09 Furikawari wrote:On March 22 2014 07:08 Grobyc wrote:On March 22 2014 07:02 Arnstein wrote:
A racist interviewing a rage quitter. Nice combo, but I'll spend my time doing other things. Why even bother commenting? To let unaware people know? Could at least elaborate. I have no idea what he's talking about other than the Naniwa IEM incident. Not very informative as is. What's with this racism? I also don't see how an interview that involves a rage quitter invalidates the interest of the interview. Not sure if it was Thorin who did the extensive retirement interview with IdrA but that was one of the best, most detailed interviews I've ever seen and enjoyed it thoroughly. Thorin made remarks about Poland as a country and about the Polish people that much of the community thinks/thought were both racist and offensive during a recent episode of ChanmanV's show, "Unfiltered," shortly before the start of IEM Katowice (in Poland) where he was set to cast CS:GO for ESL. The offense was considered to be in particularly poor taste since Carmac, ESL's Managing Director of Progaming, is also Polish. Subsequently, ESL announced that he would not be allowed to cast the event and issued a statement condemning his remarks and his attitude.
Cool, I see. Thanks for the info.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
thorins remarks were dumb as fk don't try to defend that.
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On March 22 2014 08:52 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 07:13 Noocta wrote:
You know, Esport has a whole has made me very puzzled about Korean culture.
That country just seem to have a lot of problems. Different culture, different values and a bit of a chip on the shoulder relative to China and Japan. Remarkable how they've developed in the past 50 years. Interesting Interview. Only 1/3 through need to take a break heh. If he had a little more charisma or social sense could have made a good focus for a documentary.
The key point about nani talking about Korea was that even he admitted if he tried to assimilate a bit of the culture it would have been a lot more comfortable for him. As a white guy who's been living in Korea for over 4 years, Korea is much more accepting of foreigners these days, and really take kindly to people who try to learn the language and culture, rather than just going into culture shock over everything little different thing. Especially being able to speak some Korean (which isn't as hard as you might think - immersion in the environment helps a ton) will make you look a lot better in Korean's eyes.
Gotta remember Korea has mostly problems with "foreign" people coming into their country (Japan) so they are naturally very nationalistic and also untrustworthy of foreigners, at first. Maybe it's not "fair" that you have to try "harder" than them to be able to make a connection, but whatever.
I have to admit I had a similar problem as nani before working here, where he told the story of everyone going away on vacation and no one telling him... I worked at a school and no one communicated with me at all, and I would always find out about schedule changes, class changes, etc. as they happened without prior warning...
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Nice interview.
Really interesting to see a not-so-PR version of progaming house life in Korea for foreigners.
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Wtf? Thorin's comments weren't racist...
Insensitive? Perhaps... but god damn stop twisting definitions of words for the sake of drama. What a joke.
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Racist, uhm just no. Stupid yes, especially taking in to account that you're being hired by a Polish guy to do a job in Poland. Pretty much everything said is either true or has been true at some point in the recent past, all be it some what exaggerated.
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Thorin's comments weren't racist in my opinion, though they were still incredibly asinine and definitely called for a firing. Racist or not, you can't really say such things and not expect people to be offended.
I'm sure there is some truth in what he said, however his choice of words is beyond poor. Also, Poland is hardly the only European country suffering from a severe racism problem: Italy is also pretty bad in that regard, as I'm pretty sure I recall reading stories about Mario Balotelli (Italian black soccer player) being booed and having bananas thrown his way while on the soccer field. France is also pretty bad when it comes to racism, I know it first hand.
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I watched the whole interview, very interesting and insightful. Thank you Thorin and Naniwa!
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Really sweet interview, you enabled us to understand Naniwa's perspective on things better than any other interviewers has done so far.
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I think this interview was fantastic. I felt like Thorin asked a lot of questions that many other interviewers would have diplomatically shied away from, and NaNiwa's answers to them were very forthright and interesting. Although it was an hour long, I felt engaged the whole way through and it went by very quickly. Thanks!
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I don't understand what all the hate is on thorin. IT'S CALLED AN OPINION.
I think the USA is a crap place... same with india/haiti and other countries. It's his opinion.
You guys want him to be PC and say "oh Poland is one of the best places to go" just like every other personality?
This is why i don't watch CNN or any local news. People are brainwashed to like certain things and hate certain things. Trust me when i say this, Poland is crap compared to the UK. I would never go there. UK is one of the top tourist places in Europe, Poland is not. I'm not hating on poland, but it's just all opinions.
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On March 22 2014 16:18 Malphite wrote:
I don't understand what all the hate is on thorin. IT'S CALLED AN OPINION.
I think the USA is a crap place... same with india/haiti and other countries. It's his opinion.
You guys want him to be PC and say "oh Poland is one of the best places to go" just like every other personality?
This is why i don't watch CNN or any local news. People are brainwashed to like certain things and hate certain things. Trust me when i say this, Poland is crap compared to the UK. I would never go there. UK is one of the top tourist places in Europe, Poland is not. I'm not hating on poland, but it's just all opinions.
It's offensive and incredibly stupid to act like Thorin did. He called the whole country "one of the worst places in the World" and talked about how they were grateful to be part of the "civilized world" for once, he did that 1 day before working with a mostly polish staff. Making gross generalizations about a whole country and hurting a lot of the polish people is not just HAVING AN OPINION. Like it or not, you cannot hide every comment behind: "Well guys I'm just being honest".
Obviously it wasn't racist, everyone who calls him a racist, needs to get slapped right across the face with a dictionary. Also the interview was surprisingly good, not that Thorins interviews are usually bad, but I expected more drama mongering and dirty laundry on this one.
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Thorin comments we're insensitive to say the least, but parts of what he said do have some truth to it.
Naniwa was loved and hated, and, as it goes on the internet, gets a lot of love and hate now too.
Anyway, decent interview.
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On March 22 2014 16:18 Malphite wrote:
I don't understand what all the hate is on thorin. IT'S CALLED AN OPINION.
I think the USA is a crap place... same with india/haiti and other countries. It's his opinion.
You guys want him to be PC and say "oh Poland is one of the best places to go" just like every other personality?
This is why i don't watch CNN or any local news. People are brainwashed to like certain things and hate certain things. Trust me when i say this, Poland is crap compared to the UK. I would never go there. UK is one of the top tourist places in Europe, Poland is not. I'm not hating on poland, but it's just all opinions.
That argument is a slippery slope and faulty. If you defend someone by saying its his opinion then by extension other people saying hateful stuff about thorin is just as valid because it's their opinion.
The argument only really comes to play when the hate escalates into actual violence/harm rather than countering with more opinions.
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I haven't watched the interview yet but I will since Thorin makes great content.
It's pretty stupid to not watch somebody's contributions because of their personal opinions if they don't affect the content he's producing. This thread is about the interview, not about Thorin's views on Poland and its people.
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Where is the defending??
I had said that it's an opinion and people are hating him for saying the truth in his mind.
You ever been to Poland? probably not so you don't know crap. I have family who are polish, my cousins are half polish, and trust me, they would never go back. Poland is a dumpster compared to the USA/Canada/Australia/Germany/UK.
I never heard anyone say "Hey OMG I can't wait to travel europe and go to Poland!!!!". I backpacked Europe and went to spain/uk/germany/france... No one I talked to even talked about going to Poland.
I don't even like Thorin but this is ridiculous. No one would have an issue if he had said Somolia/Haiti/ect.....
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I think this interview saved Nani a bit of face. It's good the last we'll see of him for a while will be a more positive note.
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On March 22 2014 16:59 Malphite wrote:
Where is the defending??
I had said that it's an opinion and people are hating him for saying the truth in his mind.
You ever been to Poland? probably not so you don't know crap. I have family who are polish, my cousins are half polish, and trust me, they would never go back. Poland is a dumpster compared to the USA/Canada/Australia/Germany/UK.
I never heard anyone say "Hey OMG I can't wait to travel europe and go to Poland!!!!". I backpacked Europe and went to spain/uk/germany/france... No one I talked to even talked about going to Poland.
I don't even like Thorin but this is ridiculous. No one would have an issue if he had said Somolia/Haiti/ect.....
Look dude, I'm saying people hating on him are also saying the truth in their minds based on your argument.
P.S. I've actually been to Poland. Didn't like it, but I've also been to way worse places so who knows.
EDIT: And seriously, if you can accept that Thorin can have his own opinion, why can't you accept that other people can have opinions contradicting Thorin's? Both Thorin's and others hating on him are equally valid.
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I think that thorin dude should consider filling the void within his own brain before thinking about poland's.
edit : and the interview was awful, but that's just consistent with sc2 interviews in general.
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On March 22 2014 17:18 Boonbag wrote:
I think that thorin dude should consider filling the void within his own brain before thinking about poland's.
edit : and the interview was awful, but that's just consistent with sc2 interviews in general.
elaborate. Why was the interview awful in your opinion
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On March 22 2014 16:59 Malphite wrote:
Where is the defending??
I had said that it's an opinion and people are hating him for saying the truth in his mind.
You ever been to Poland? probably not so you don't know crap. I have family who are polish, my cousins are half polish, and trust me, they would never go back. Poland is a dumpster compared to the USA/Canada/Australia/Germany/UK.
I never heard anyone say "Hey OMG I can't wait to travel europe and go to Poland!!!!". I backpacked Europe and went to spain/uk/germany/france... No one I talked to even talked about going to Poland.
I don't even like Thorin but this is ridiculous. No one would have an issue if he had said Somolia/Haiti/ect.....
Are you trying to defend the opinion or not? Because by validating it with your own experience, it sounds like you are...
Either way, I will say this - while Thorin is entitled to his opinions, he is not entitled to represent an organization while offending the audience, employees, and owners of that organization. People can agree with his harsh review of Poland but it is a fact that many people were also offended by it. He essentially called them backwards in four different ways.
It is worth noting that he is factually incorrect. By the UN's Human Development Index, Poland ranks in the top quartile, labeled "very high human development". While it is lower than most European countries, it is hardly an undeveloped country. Notably, the UK is also in the bottom half of European countries. It also has more tourists than any other EU country except (in order) France, Germany, Austria, and the UK. Ironically, Poland gets more tourists every year than Korea, for what that's worth (although Europeans travel far more within Europe than Asians do within Asia).
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On March 22 2014 17:23 robson1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 17:18 Boonbag wrote:
I think that thorin dude should consider filling the void within his own brain before thinking about poland's.
edit : and the interview was awful, but that's just consistent with sc2 interviews in general. elaborate. Why was the interview awful in your opinion
Because it's boring ? 1 hour ? Guys have nothing to say really, or rather, its pretty un interesting. It's like you listen to some people talking about something they know / do for a living, but they sound like they have no clue about it.
And naniwa posing with the leather jacket like hes some kind of rockstar is meh.
Also the way that shit interviewer everytime he ends a question just puts his hand in front of his mouth is so childish and unprofessional.
It's just overall you clearly see these two kids have 0 education whatsoever and that doesn't really make up for a good thing in a one hour long chat.
And don't even get me started on the camera performance. Oh god.
Esport professionalism at it's finest.
edit : about people saying this guy is entitled to have an "opinion" on poland. You people realise poland is the country that suffered the most from WWII ? Every single word he said is about what a neo nazi would say about poland ; how in the world is that tolerable ? I mean his interview shouldn't even be posted here.
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Informative interview, good job as always Thorin !
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On March 22 2014 17:38 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 17:23 robson1 wrote:On March 22 2014 17:18 Boonbag wrote:
I think that thorin dude should consider filling the void within his own brain before thinking about poland's.
edit : and the interview was awful, but that's just consistent with sc2 interviews in general. elaborate. Why was the interview awful in your opinion Because it's boring ? 1 hour ? Guys have nothing to say really, or rather, its pretty un interesting. It's like you listen to some people talking about something they know / do for a living, but they sound like they have no clue about it. And naniwa posing with the leather jacket like hes some kind of rockstar is meh.Also the way that shit interviewer everytime he ends a question just puts his hand in front of his mouth is so childish and unprofessional. It's just overall you clearly see these two kids have 0 education whatsoever and that doesn't really make up for a good thing in a one hour long chat. And don't even get me started on the camera performance. Oh god. Esport professionalism at it's finest. edit : about people saying this guy is entitled to have an "opinion" on poland. You people realise poland is the country that suffered the most from WWII ? Every single word he said is about what a neo nazi would say about poland ; how in the world is that tolerable ? I mean his interview shouldn't even be posted here.
TL Fashion Police has arrived!
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On March 22 2014 16:18 Malphite wrote:
I don't understand what all the hate is on thorin. IT'S CALLED AN OPINION.
I think the USA is a crap place... same with india/haiti and other countries. It's his opinion.
You guys want him to be PC and say "oh Poland is one of the best places to go" just like every other personality?
This is why i don't watch CNN or any local news. People are brainwashed to like certain things and hate certain things. Trust me when i say this, Poland is crap compared to the UK. I would never go there. UK is one of the top tourist places in Europe, Poland is not. I'm not hating on poland, but it's just all opinions.
No, there is no need to be extremely politically correct. But being rude and ignorant isnt acceptable in any shape or form. If you think the country you live in is "crap", along with India (a country I originate from and have been to many times) I find your statement ignorant. What is your measure of a country being "crap"? Are there certain aspects you dont enjoy?
Sure its your opinion, but then my opinion is that just because you have a right to say your opinion, doesnt mean you have to spew hate and ungratefulness and expect everyone to be cool with your "opinion".
Personally, every country I have visited has its pro and cons. I am grateful for what I have and for what the country I live in has afforded me.
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On March 22 2014 18:28 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 17:38 Boonbag wrote:On March 22 2014 17:23 robson1 wrote:On March 22 2014 17:18 Boonbag wrote:
I think that thorin dude should consider filling the void within his own brain before thinking about poland's.
edit : and the interview was awful, but that's just consistent with sc2 interviews in general. elaborate. Why was the interview awful in your opinion Because it's boring ? 1 hour ? Guys have nothing to say really, or rather, its pretty un interesting. It's like you listen to some people talking about something they know / do for a living, but they sound like they have no clue about it. And naniwa posing with the leather jacket like hes some kind of rockstar is meh.Also the way that shit interviewer everytime he ends a question just puts his hand in front of his mouth is so childish and unprofessional. It's just overall you clearly see these two kids have 0 education whatsoever and that doesn't really make up for a good thing in a one hour long chat. And don't even get me started on the camera performance. Oh god. Esport professionalism at it's finest. edit : about people saying this guy is entitled to have an "opinion" on poland. You people realise poland is the country that suffered the most from WWII ? Every single word he said is about what a neo nazi would say about poland ; how in the world is that tolerable ? I mean his interview shouldn't even be posted here. TL Fashion Police has arrived!
just looks awkward thats it
and i like esports uniform gallore
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On March 22 2014 16:59 Malphite wrote:
Where is the defending??
I had said that it's an opinion and people are hating him for saying the truth in his mind.
You ever been to Poland? probably not so you don't know crap. I have family who are polish, my cousins are half polish, and trust me, they would never go back. Poland is a dumpster compared to the USA/Canada/Australia/Germany/UK.
I never heard anyone say "Hey OMG I can't wait to travel europe and go to Poland!!!!". I backpacked Europe and went to spain/uk/germany/france... No one I talked to even talked about going to Poland.
I don't even like Thorin but this is ridiculous. No one would have an issue if he had said Somolia/Haiti/ect.....
My friend....what are you saying? Judging by your grammar and dubious spelling mistakes which I am trying to look past, you have dumped your opinion on us and trying to justify Thorin's opinion by saying it is an opinion and then shoving your own opinion in there (Grade A kindergarden logic there, cant argue with that). So here is mine:
If someone has a blatant opinion, and another person responds with his own opinion - whats the problem? Thorin is a journalist and came with some controversial statements. Obviously people are going to come with their own opinions - along with defending their own countries or ideas/emotions. Why are you getting excited? You have backpacked through Europe, so you have your perspective on Poland (and apparently India and Haiti/"Somolia"). And that's cool.
I like Poland having been there several times and enjoying the atmosphere in Gdansk (a beatiful University town) along with Krakow. Amazing places for sure! Some of the regions and people are still scarred from WW2, but there are still areas and people which are amazing. I know people who would never leave Poland, and people who are desperate to get out of Poland. Different strokes for different folks.
And btw it is spelled Somalia. Perhaps you would consider spelling it correctly before you comment on an entire nation.
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On March 22 2014 16:18 Malphite wrote:
I don't understand what all the hate is on thorin. IT'S CALLED AN OPINION.
I think the USA is a crap place... same with india/haiti and other countries. It's his opinion.
You guys want him to be PC and say "oh Poland is one of the best places to go" just like every other personality?
This is why i don't watch CNN or any local news. People are brainwashed to like certain things and hate certain things. Trust me when i say this, Poland is crap compared to the UK. I would never go there. UK is one of the top tourist places in Europe, Poland is not. I'm not hating on poland, but it's just all opinions.
No one says he is not entitled to his opinion. They're saying he is not entitled to work for IEM when expressing an opinion that could be damaging and embarrassing for the company's reputation.
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This is a great interview, regardless of what insensitive joke Thorin said or sociopath-like attitude Naniwa ever had.
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Every single word he said is about what a neo nazi would say about poland ; how in the world is that tolerable ? I mean his interview shouldn't even be posted here
No it's not, you need to get a history lesson, and shouldn't call other people uneducated, when you're basically calling them neo-nazis without even knowing what the nazi agenda was/is.
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On March 22 2014 17:38 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 17:23 robson1 wrote:On March 22 2014 17:18 Boonbag wrote:
I think that thorin dude should consider filling the void within his own brain before thinking about poland's.
edit : and the interview was awful, but that's just consistent with sc2 interviews in general. elaborate. Why was the interview awful in your opinion Because it's boring ? 1 hour ? Guys have nothing to say really, or rather, its pretty un interesting. It's like you listen to some people talking about something they know / do for a living, but they sound like they have no clue about it. And naniwa posing with the leather jacket like hes some kind of rockstar is meh. Also the way that shit interviewer everytime he ends a question just puts his hand in front of his mouth is so childish and unprofessional. It's just overall you clearly see these two kids have 0 education whatsoever and that doesn't really make up for a good thing in a one hour long chat. And don't even get me started on the camera performance. Oh god. Esport professionalism at it's finest. edit : about people saying this guy is entitled to have an "opinion" on poland. You people realise poland is the country that suffered the most from WWII ? Every single word he said is about what a neo nazi would say about poland ; how in the world is that tolerable ? I mean his interview shouldn't even be posted here.
"It's a bad interview because it's an hour and I didn't like it and I didn't like the jacket Naniwa wore or Thorin's hand gestures."
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i liked it. thx for bringing this to us. was nice being able to have the time stamps of questions so i could fast forward to the interesting ones. was nice getting some insight on his time in korea
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On March 22 2014 19:19 robson1 wrote:Show nested quote +Every single word he said is about what a neo nazi would say about poland ; how in the world is that tolerable ? I mean his interview shouldn't even be posted here No it's not, you need to get a history lesson, and shouldn't call other people uneducated, when you're basically calling them neo-nazis without even knowing what the nazi agenda was/is.
okay now that's dumb
tell me about the nazi agenda haha
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On March 22 2014 17:02 b0rt_ wrote:
I think this interview saved Nani a bit of face. It's good the last we'll see of him for a while will be a more positive note.
I agree. It's shows he's just a normal human being (with some quirks maybe).
On March 22 2014 19:55 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 17:38 Boonbag wrote:On March 22 2014 17:23 robson1 wrote:On March 22 2014 17:18 Boonbag wrote:
I think that thorin dude should consider filling the void within his own brain before thinking about poland's.
edit : and the interview was awful, but that's just consistent with sc2 interviews in general. elaborate. Why was the interview awful in your opinion Because it's boring ? 1 hour ? Guys have nothing to say really, or rather, its pretty un interesting. It's like you listen to some people talking about something they know / do for a living, but they sound like they have no clue about it. And naniwa posing with the leather jacket like hes some kind of rockstar is meh. Also the way that shit interviewer everytime he ends a question just puts his hand in front of his mouth is so childish and unprofessional. It's just overall you clearly see these two kids have 0 education whatsoever and that doesn't really make up for a good thing in a one hour long chat. And don't even get me started on the camera performance. Oh god. Esport professionalism at it's finest. edit : about people saying this guy is entitled to have an "opinion" on poland. You people realise poland is the country that suffered the most from WWII ? Every single word he said is about what a neo nazi would say about poland ; how in the world is that tolerable ? I mean his interview shouldn't even be posted here. "It's a bad interview because it's an hour and I didn't like it and I didn't like the jacket Naniwa wore or Thorin's hand gestures."
But.. It's his OPINION 
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Can anyone please fill me in about this Thorin incident?
What exactly happened?
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Can't wait to watch this! unfortunately it will have to wait until the morning
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On March 22 2014 20:49 Qwerty85 wrote:
Can anyone please fill me in about this Thorin incident?
What exactly happened?
He said some rather derogatory and insulting things about Poland shortly before he was supposed to cast CS:GO at IEM in Katowice. He was subsequently removed from the event. TL:DR: Dumb things were said, consequences followed.
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Dat video quality!
Listening to it now, but damn dat video quality! :D
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On March 22 2014 20:53 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 20:49 Qwerty85 wrote:
Can anyone please fill me in about this Thorin incident?
What exactly happened? He said some rather derogatory and insulting things about Poland shortly before he was supposed to cast CS:GO at IEM in Katowice. He was subsequently removed from the event. TL:DR: Dumb things were said, consequences followed.
Sounds like a perfect guy to interview Naniwa :D
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Stuff like this makes me almost like Naniwa. If he just wouldn't be such a douche every time something doesn't go his was
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Good interview, liked every second of it.
As much as I dislike LoL and it's community this Faker guy is pretty amazing. Him being the best out of a million players is quite comparable to Scarlett  but I don't think the skill levels of the 2 games can be compared as you need totally different skills for LoL.
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Haha, for those wondering about the into; Hows it going? - Fine
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Thanks for the interview thorin.
Really hope one day people will stop being so sensitive.
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I am no karate expert, but isn't his mindeset the complete opposite of what it should be in martial arts? Also, I don't really believe he did well in karate
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On March 22 2014 21:33 KaiserJohan wrote:
Thanks for the interview thorin.
Really hope one day people will stop being so sensitive.
So sensitive, yeah.... I actually found what he said, I won't put his words here but I will provide a link for people who missed it (like I did).
http://www.esportsheaven.com/news/64245/thorin-from-unfiltered-to-unemployed
^ You think judging statements like these is being overly sensitive?
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On March 22 2014 21:36 Saumure wrote:
I am no karate expert, but isn't his mindeset the complete opposite of what it should be in martial arts? Also, I don't really believe he did well in karate
I've done a fair bit of martial arts, and I've run into plenty of guys like that. They never last. That kind of mindset makes you a toxic presence and no one will work with you. It also just makes you worse because you won't honestly confront the fact that you probably aren't very good.
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On March 22 2014 21:40 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 21:33 KaiserJohan wrote:
Thanks for the interview thorin.
Really hope one day people will stop being so sensitive. So sensitive, yeah.... I actually found what he said, I won't put his words here but I will provide a link for people who missed it (like I did). http://www.esportsheaven.com/news/64245/thorin-from-unfiltered-to-unemployed^ You think judging statements like these is being overly sensitive?
i don't even know why people are defending these statements, it's overly subjective, agressive and it's stereotyping a whole country. it's just not okay to say something like this and i completely support the decision of IEM or ESL. Then again i have to say that this is not the thread for discussing such things, it's an interview with naniwa, discuss that and not if this is discriminative racist or whatever.
it's great content that he provided here nonetheless and it should be appreciated imo
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On March 22 2014 20:20 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 19:19 robson1 wrote:Every single word he said is about what a neo nazi would say about poland ; how in the world is that tolerable ? I mean his interview shouldn't even be posted here No it's not, you need to get a history lesson, and shouldn't call other people uneducated, when you're basically calling them neo-nazis without even knowing what the nazi agenda was/is. okay now that's dumb tell me about the nazi agenda haha
okay now you're dumb. The Nazi's, or the Neo-Nazi's hold no views like: "Oh well, Poland is a shitty country because the have no advanced infrastructure like we do. Oh they are grateful when an event is held in their country, because nothing else is going on, and they wan't to feel like a part of the civilized word." That's the gist of what Thorin said. Nothing more. Nothing less.
The Nazis or Neo Nazis believe that they descend from a superior breed of humans, which gives the right to transform their superiority into world domination by any means necessary. The polish people are lesser people to them(and so are other non german people). Thorin didn't even come close to mentioning anything of the sort, and if he did, nobody would be talking about the interview and the whole community would have crucified him on the spot.
But I'm pretty sure you're trollin, so whatever.
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On March 22 2014 21:58 robson1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 20:20 Boonbag wrote:On March 22 2014 19:19 robson1 wrote:Every single word he said is about what a neo nazi would say about poland ; how in the world is that tolerable ? I mean his interview shouldn't even be posted here No it's not, you need to get a history lesson, and shouldn't call other people uneducated, when you're basically calling them neo-nazis without even knowing what the nazi agenda was/is. okay now that's dumb tell me about the nazi agenda haha okay now you're dumb. The Nazi's, or the Neo-Nazi's hold no views like: "Oh well, Poland is a shitty country because the have no advanced infrastructure like we do. Oh they are grateful when an event is held in their country, because nothing else is going on, and they wan't to feel like a part of the civilized word." That's the gist of what Thorin said. Nothing more. Nothing less. The Nazis or Neo Nazis believe that they descend from a superior breed of humans, which gives the right to transform their superiority into world domination by any means necessary. The polish people are lesser people to them(and so are other non german people). Thorin didn't even come close to mentioning anything of the sort, and if he did, nobody would be talking about the interview and the whole community would have crucified him on the spot. But I'm pretty sure you're trollin, so whatever.
His statements (you missed a few) did come off like he feels superior to polish people. Offending the country can be viewed as offending the people since polish people choose leadership and polish leadership runs the country. Calling him a nazi is obviously an overreaction but he did get "crucified" in a way since he got fired by ESL after saying those things.
To stay on topic: I liked the interview in general, Naniwa is obviously much more mannered and reasonable when he isn't in a game he just lost. There is a bit of Jekyll and Hyde in him.. I am a bit confused about his impressions on practice in ST house. At first he was saying that nobody wanted to practice with him but later he said he was very picky about finding practice partners because he was afraid that Koreans would leak his replays to his opponent (like he insinuated with Polt before his game against Mvp).
He had a brief moments of that Naniwa that showed up at IEM in the interview but it was way better masked since he was more diplomatic about it. Just goes to show he can handle himself like a normal person when he is not under pressure.
And I really do hope he grows up or somehow manages his temper because I feel like he misunderstood his father's words.
Not excepting defeat and giving your best isn't the same as making excuses for loses and BMing other players when you lose to them. He will obviously need to work on himself because even if he for example goes to LoL I don't see someone with his mentality do well in a game that requires cooperation with other players in the team.
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Anyone have a tl;dw post? Like, a brief recap so we know the gist of the interview? I'm interested in the content but simply don't have an hour to sink in. :p
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On March 22 2014 22:26 Incognoto wrote:
Anyone have a tl;dw post? Like, a brief recap so we know the gist of the interview? I'm interested in the content but simply don't have an hour to sink in. :p
Can't you just pick some of the most interesting things listed? The time and topics are there so it seems fairly quick and easy to do.
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On March 22 2014 22:26 Incognoto wrote:
Anyone have a tl;dw post? Like, a brief recap so we know the gist of the interview? I'm interested in the content but simply don't have an hour to sink in. :p
it is mostly about Naniwa wanting to train in Korea cause theres the highest skill, but culture and Koreans being reserved towards foreigners made it really hard to profit skillwise from living in Korea. he talks about his and other players experiences there, for example that despite living in a teamhouse he almost only played ladder and almost no custom games
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On March 22 2014 22:56 3point14 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 22:26 Incognoto wrote:
Anyone have a tl;dw post? Like, a brief recap so we know the gist of the interview? I'm interested in the content but simply don't have an hour to sink in. :p it is mostly about Naniwa wanting to train in Korea cause theres the highest skill, but culture and Koreans being reserved towards foreigners made it really hard to profit skillwise from living in Korea. he talks about his and other players experiences there, for example that despite living in a teamhouse he almost only played ladder and almost no custom games
hmm all right that makes sense
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i dare him to say those things infront of polish ppl. so bold.. so bold behind the internet. id like him to say it to me face-2-face...ill show how pols do.. im polish fyi
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On March 22 2014 23:56 WOPR wrote:
i dare him to say those things infront of polish ppl. so bold.. so bold behind the internet. id like him to say it to me face-2-face...ill show how pols do.. im polish fyi
Yeah you show him, beating him up will surely prove your point and resolve the situation.
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naw Squat.. nothing like that at all. i just wonder how his statements would of changed infront of ppl he speaking about.
edit: anyways im only touched in the manner he said those thing. thats all
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blanking out all the drama surrounding Thorin and Naniwa himself, this was quite the good and insightful interview, thanks!
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On March 22 2014 23:56 WOPR wrote:
i dare him to say those things infront of polish ppl. so bold.. so bold behind the internet. id like him to say it to me face-2-face...ill show how pols do.. im polish fyi
well I'm Polish and if he said all those things in front of me I would... agree with pretty much everything 
that's actually the reason I moved to the UK and been living here for the past 6 years - I don't intend to ever go back (maybe during my retirement years )...
so yeah it's not that I hate my country but most of the things Thorin said are actual facts... of course he shouldn't have said them being an 'official' person at the IEM (especially in the 'aggressive' way that he did) but meh they didn't bother me a single bit...
and I found the interview very interesting, to my surprise I watched it without skipping too many parts so thanks for that <3
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On March 22 2014 23:56 WOPR wrote:
i dare him to say those things infront of polish ppl. so bold.. so bold behind the internet. id like him to say it to me face-2-face...ill show how pols do.. im polish fyi
Did you really just type this on the internet?
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On March 23 2014 00:03 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 23:56 WOPR wrote:
i dare him to say those things infront of polish ppl. so bold.. so bold behind the internet. id like him to say it to me face-2-face...ill show how pols do.. im polish fyi Yeah you show him, beating him up will surely prove your point and resolve the situation.
He just wants to show him something, not beat him up geez Chinese whispers over here.
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i wonder how Guilliame Patry managed to break this barrier Koreans put up against foriegners?
any one know?
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On March 23 2014 03:48 lamprey1 wrote:
i wonder how Guilliame Patry managed to break this barrier Koreans put up against foriegners?
any one know?
Grrrr... immersed himself in Korean culture and language far more than most foreigners going over to practice Starcraft.
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On March 23 2014 03:48 lamprey1 wrote:
i wonder how Guilliame Patry managed to break this barrier Koreans put up against foriegners?
any one know?
Back when being a professional gamer was considered as a "rockstar" (yeah they still get respect these days but let's face it, professional gamers are becoming uglier and uglier and much more "effeminate" these days). Guillaume would constantly hang out w/ Boxer, YellOw, and etc. They would go out clubbing in Korea night time and whatnot (along w/ Elky, a french player).
During the documentary "WCG2005 National Geographics", Guillaume was seeing talking in conversational Korean to purchase food there and community w/ much clarity.
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On March 22 2014 16:18 Malphite wrote:
I don't understand what all the hate is on thorin. IT'S CALLED AN OPINION.
an opinion about every single person of an ethnicity based on where they were born is pretty much the definition of racism.
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On March 22 2014 23:56 WOPR wrote:
i dare him to say those things infront of polish ppl. so bold.. so bold behind the internet. id like him to say it to me face-2-face...ill show how pols do.. im polish fyi
You're also most likely in your early teens.
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On March 23 2014 03:48 lamprey1 wrote:
i wonder how Guilliame Patry managed to break this barrier Koreans put up against foriegners?
any one know?
learned their language, isn't that always what you should do if you wanna be accepted in another country?
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On March 23 2014 04:49 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 16:18 Malphite wrote:
I don't understand what all the hate is on thorin. IT'S CALLED AN OPINION.
an opinion about every single person of an ethnicity based on where they were born is pretty much the definition of racism.
koreans are so good at starcraft
shit I'm racist :K
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Great interview and content as always thorin. Keep up the good work =)
interviews with Naniwa is always interesting and informative.
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On March 23 2014 05:02 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2014 04:49 LaNague wrote:On March 22 2014 16:18 Malphite wrote:
I don't understand what all the hate is on thorin. IT'S CALLED AN OPINION.
an opinion about every single person of an ethnicity based on where they were born is pretty much the definition of racism. koreans are so good at starcraft shit I'm racist :K
korean-ethnocentric actually
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On March 23 2014 00:03 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 23:56 WOPR wrote:
i dare him to say those things infront of polish ppl. so bold.. so bold behind the internet. id like him to say it to me face-2-face...ill show how pols do.. im polish fyi Yeah you show him, beating him up will surely prove your point and resolve the situation.
I kinda wanna say that post was meant to be sarcastic to point out the idiocy of the polish guys that actually sent Thorin pms threatening to beat him up and rape and/or kill him. Might be mistaken, but that's how I saw it :o
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What an interview! This is great. I understand the man's motivations and history so much better now.
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On March 22 2014 23:56 WOPR wrote:
i dare him to say those things infront of polish ppl. so bold.. so bold behind the internet. id like him to say it to me face-2-face...ill show how pols do.. im polish fyi
The ironing is delicious.
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Very interesting interview, wish they'd talk more about the booth issue though
On March 22 2014 08:38 paddyz wrote:The player doesn't work for me
He doesn't work for anyone, he got fired!
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On March 23 2014 04:49 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 16:18 Malphite wrote:
I don't understand what all the hate is on thorin. IT'S CALLED AN OPINION.
an opinion about every single person of an ethnicity based on where they were born is pretty much the definition of racism.
If you want to talk strictly about definitions, racism refers to the belief that one race is superior to another. What you described is a stereotype.
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Dominican Republic611 Posts
On March 22 2014 21:40 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 21:33 KaiserJohan wrote:
Thanks for the interview thorin.
Really hope one day people will stop being so sensitive. So sensitive, yeah.... I actually found what he said, I won't put his words here but I will provide a link for people who missed it (like I did). http://www.esportsheaven.com/news/64245/thorin-from-unfiltered-to-unemployed^ You think judging statements like these is being overly sensitive?
and people got offended by this? lol he didnt say anything bad, he just said what everyone knows.
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On March 22 2014 08:57 Cheren wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 08:52 Ammanas wrote:On March 22 2014 07:44 Darkhorse wrote:On March 22 2014 07:39 darkscream wrote:
Huh, the two guys that got burned by/burned themselves out of IEM got together and did something productive.
Good on them both. Kinda think both of these guys burned themselves with IEM. For those wondering what the "racist" comment about Thorin was about, http://www.esportsheaven.com/news/64245/thorin-from-unfiltered-to-unemployed. Judge the comments for yourself I guess I dunno where I stand on them. Funny thing is, most of what he said is actually true. I don't see how anyone in Poland can be offended by those comments, it's true. And it's true for them, it's true for my country (Slovakia), it's true for Czech Republic, Ukraine, all the ex-Soviet Union states. Poland is probably the most developed out of all of them, but we all still have A LOT to catch up to (and also there is a lot of what just can stay in the west and shouldn't ever come). Show nested quote +“Put it this way, it’s another place also where there’s constantly news stories where at their football games they have straight up racism aimed at all black players, with the whole crowd like chanting stuff or throwing banana peels. That happened like 50 years ago in the developed European countries - that shit happens, like, now in Poland.” It's disappointing that someone who calls out actual racism gets called a racist.
It would be better if he could do so without being so hypocritical. "50 years ago in the developed European countries" - what the fuck? That stuff still happens in France, Italy, Germany, Spain TODAY. To write off racism as some unique Polish issue while ignoring it happening all around you is both insulting to Poles and disgustingly ignorant of the state of the "developed world" he gets to live in.
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I actually find it quite ironic that someone from the UK would make those comments. Having been to the UK a few times and also been friends with a few englishmen for several years, I can safely say that it's one of the more xenophobic countries. Hasn't a very xenophobic, borderline racist, political movement gathered a lot of support the past years?
I also have a view, albeit not supported by any evidence, that the social security and general welfare of the UK is a LOT lower than many western european countries. Being from scandinavia, I was a bit shocked with the state of some areas of London. Did not expect to see such things in the "developed world".
Still love England though, mostly for the football
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Naniwa is good cup, gotta have haters to have lovers in the end
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Like like like like like like a really good interview.
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On March 23 2014 06:35 goofyballer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 08:57 Cheren wrote:On March 22 2014 08:52 Ammanas wrote:On March 22 2014 07:44 Darkhorse wrote:On March 22 2014 07:39 darkscream wrote:
Huh, the two guys that got burned by/burned themselves out of IEM got together and did something productive.
Good on them both. Kinda think both of these guys burned themselves with IEM. For those wondering what the "racist" comment about Thorin was about, http://www.esportsheaven.com/news/64245/thorin-from-unfiltered-to-unemployed. Judge the comments for yourself I guess I dunno where I stand on them. Funny thing is, most of what he said is actually true. I don't see how anyone in Poland can be offended by those comments, it's true. And it's true for them, it's true for my country (Slovakia), it's true for Czech Republic, Ukraine, all the ex-Soviet Union states. Poland is probably the most developed out of all of them, but we all still have A LOT to catch up to (and also there is a lot of what just can stay in the west and shouldn't ever come). “Put it this way, it’s another place also where there’s constantly news stories where at their football games they have straight up racism aimed at all black players, with the whole crowd like chanting stuff or throwing banana peels. That happened like 50 years ago in the developed European countries - that shit happens, like, now in Poland.” It's disappointing that someone who calls out actual racism gets called a racist. It would be better if he could do so without being so hypocritical. "50 years ago in the developed European countries" - what the fuck? That stuff still happens in France, Italy, Germany, Spain TODAY. To write off racism as some unique Polish issue while ignoring it happening all around you is both insulting to Poles and disgustingly ignorant of the state of the "developed world" he gets to live in.
If he threw banana peels at people, he'd be hypocritical. The fact that it happens in other western European countries makes him factually wrong, not hypocritical. There's a difference.
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i would really like to hear an interview from state and his thoughts on the same questions. would be interesting to hear if hes getting help from players or is just there for the ladder. which i asked in his chat and said he likes being there not just for the ladder but now that hes been there a while would like to hear about it someone make this happen plz,
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So I am just getting around to this, and I just have to say that interviewers need to not use curse words. Even though profanities and vulgar language are common in this scene and industry in general, professionalism is a huge part of how people, both knowledgeable about esports and Starcraft and not, perceive the industry, and well-prepared, professional questions must be constructed. This doesn't mean the interviewee can't use them, because it's the person of interest, but if you want to portray a professional analysis and conversation with a "celebrity", you shouldn't swear.
It might be only a slight nitpick, but it's something he should work on improving.
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Canada16217 Posts
Thanks for the interview.
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On March 23 2014 05:01 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2014 03:48 lamprey1 wrote:
i wonder how Guilliame Patry managed to break this barrier Koreans put up against foriegners?
any one know? learned their language, isn't that always what you should do if you wanna be accepted in another country?
is that what Idra, HuK, Naniwa etc etc did? they learned how to speak korean and immersed themselves in the culture?
or did they continue to speak english, or whatever their 1st language is and try to survive without learning to have a conversation in Korean?
one thing many sports teams do .... is imitate the champion.
On March 23 2014 08:10 vult wrote:
So I am just getting around to this, and I just have to say that interviewers need to not use curse words. Even though profanities and vulgar language are common in this scene and industry in general, professionalism is a huge part of how people, both knowledgeable about esports and Starcraft and not, perceive the industry, and well-prepared, professional questions must be constructed. This doesn't mean the interviewee can't use them, because it's the person of interest, but if you want to portray a professional analysis and conversation with a "celebrity", you shouldn't swear.
i disagree,
to get the best, most insightful interview, you mirror the subject of the interview.
as a quick example, try speaking the queen's english in an interview with Alan Iverson and see what level of insight you get.
the Naniwa interview was a very insightful interview partially because of how well the intervewer mirrored his subject and made him feel relaxed so that he could open up about a lot of topics.
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As much as I hate him... I think he actually gives one of the best interviews cause hes always honest... I do enjoy his honestly and admire his work ethics..
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People are talking about learning korean as if it were as easy as making bread. when you're playing a demanding game like brood war 12+ hours a day, do you really have time to be practicing learning an entirely new language from ground 0? Any pro gamer who went to Korea to train and play SC had some real guts. They took a real risk and they did their best, it's People who pick on them for not learning the language are being idiots. I have nothing but respect for the foreigners who went to Korea to play SC, especially Idra, who at the time was alone in the team training house, couldn't speak Korean and he still had the guts to try to become a pro gamer under Kespa's reign. People who scoff at that are being stupid.
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god i always liked naniwa as a person
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Ahh I hate to be the guy who comes in and shits on everyone's game but I left the sc community a long time ago because of stuff like this and I recently came back to check it out I'm sad to see it hasn't gone away. E-Sports community in general has so many problems and it seems like no progress is being made. Players being manipulated, teams that aren't teams, drama etc. I came back and saw that things were actually going quite well in terms of viewership and tournament production. But I see that the problem is even when players or insiders try to reveal the problems that are going on they just get trashed and are viewed as traitors or whiners. So much complaining in every forum about people who are doing this for a living... giving you entertainment etc.
I only say this stuff because I obviously love the game and the community, otherwise I wouldn't care. But the community and game are beautiful and at the same time disgusting. But why does my opinion matter anyway... It's not like mine is important or something.. but maybe some people will listen and try to make the game and community better. Maybe even the mods would listen.. They ban people at a moment's notice when somebody complains about TL or balance, yet a few posts up a guy is fucking threatening violence on somebody else and there's nothing because the community has picked these two to hate on and complain about. I'm not surprised Naniwa and others, maybe Taeja (although I don't know if this is really what he feels) are fed up with the game and the community.
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Great interview!
Always as refreshing to hear Naniwas honesty, not only about most things, but also about himself! He really stands out among all the programers, he is a true analyser with honesty and and tries to deal with pure truth.
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It would be awesome if we could get a transript of this.
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On March 23 2014 22:47 And G wrote:
It would be awesome if we could get a transript of this.
You want someone to take the time to type an hour of conversation so that you could read it instead of listening to it?
You monster.
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I think the leaked replay stuff has been a problem even for many korean players back in the days. Pretty low imo.
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On March 23 2014 05:44 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 23:56 WOPR wrote:
i dare him to say those things infront of polish ppl. so bold.. so bold behind the internet. id like him to say it to me face-2-face...ill show how pols do.. im polish fyi The ironing is delicious.
as delicious as the ironing is.
the irony is even more delicious.
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On March 23 2014 23:07 AlternativeEgo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2014 22:47 And G wrote:
It would be awesome if we could get a transript of this. You want someone to take the time to type an hour of conversation so that you could read it instead of listening to it? You monster.
Yeah... I find it hard to listen to Naniwa for some reason.
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I really enjoy all of these Thorinterviews.
Though this last one was a bit tainted by Thorin trying to bond with Naniwa over being martyr-bros.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On March 23 2014 13:17 lamprey1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2014 05:01 ROOTFayth wrote:On March 23 2014 03:48 lamprey1 wrote:
i wonder how Guilliame Patry managed to break this barrier Koreans put up against foriegners?
any one know? learned their language, isn't that always what you should do if you wanna be accepted in another country? is that what Idra, HuK, Naniwa etc etc did? they learned how to speak korean and immersed themselves in the culture? or did they continue to speak english, or whatever their 1st language is and try to survive without learning to have a conversation in Korean? one thing many sports teams do .... is imitate the champion.
Koreans didn't work with foreigners not only because of the language barrier. But also because they felt that they should be helping out their korean brothers instead of a foreigner. It's something that Naniwa mentioned many times in this interview. This isn't something that is exclusive to progaming either.
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Idra never learnt a word of Korean? He was there for the longest time right? I'm impressed he didnt try to squeeze in some self-studying of daily Korean.
Scarlett seems to have been studying by herself and interested in the culture. I'm curious of how will that affect her stance there (though I doubt it will balance out other obvious things).
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EPT
