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On March 21 2014 19:11 ACrow wrote:
How can you expect to be payed by a team for a game that you have no intention on playing and then complain when you are fired?
At least he tried to give away the tournament spot, that would have been the right thing to do.
I dont want to excuse his behavior but from what I understood (and I hope that its correct because if you are correct, thats even more disappointing) he wanted to completly stop with SC and leave the team but was still in the contract so he wasnt allowed to and had to attend IEM
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On March 21 2014 19:11 ACrow wrote:
How can you expect to be payed by a team for a game that you have no intention on playing and then complain when you are fired?
At least he tried to give away the tournament spot, that would have been the right thing to do.
Where did he complain about being removed from the team or say that he expected to continue to be paid?
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On March 21 2014 18:59 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote:latest post from Johan: On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote:everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me ) i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough.  but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg. He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him. But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create. Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story... On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote:
I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways. That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ? Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child.
But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
On March 21 2014 19:03 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote:latest post from Johan: On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote:everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me ) i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg. He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him. But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create. Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story... On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote:
I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways. That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ? You can and you should. If my boss asks me to do something that I don't want to do, I wouldn't make a complete mess of what is asked. There is an acceptable level of performance, using my own example, I don't want to negotiate price with Chinese factory because my Mandarin isn't great, but I certainly would at least make some sort of progress instead of calling the factory and slam.them with a stupid price and expect I will be fine.
Well if my boss tells me to do something that i don't want to. If i have reason to not wanting to do it, i'll take to my boss and see what we can do.
You're not a soldier and this is not orders.
You go to your manager and say something along the lines :
" I want to quit, so do not send me there ".
" You are obliged to do so because contract ".
" So you want me to go, play bad, be mad, lose, and make sponsors not happy with you because of this ?"
If you are a good manager you say : "Ok give me your resignation". And parts ways
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On March 21 2014 18:49 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 18:43 Foxxan wrote:On March 21 2014 18:40 sunship wrote:On March 21 2014 18:30 Foxxan wrote:
If i was a professional player
And its no soundproof
I would be really mad That's not how a haiku works. ? He thought you were trolling. Unfortunately for you, you weren't. Or he new and he makes fun of you.
?
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However you look at it a player still has their team and contract to consider, which generally can't be backed out on as simply as having a change of heart.
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On March 21 2014 19:19 VoldorusLM wrote:
However you look at it a player still has their team and contract to consider, which generally can't be backed out on as simply as having a change of heart.
You can however break a contract from both side. But maybe that depends on country, laws etc.. In my country you can break a contract with agreements from the two parties
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On March 21 2014 19:17 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 18:59 Grovbolle wrote:On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote:latest post from Johan: On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote:everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me ) i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg. He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him. But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create. Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story... On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote:
I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways. That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ? Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child. But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say.
+1
Of course Naniwa didn't handle this well but his team/ sponsor (and maybe even IEM) made a huge mistake in forcing him to play. I guess this was the last battle in a fight for dominance behind the scenes.
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On March 21 2014 19:22 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 19:17 FFW_Rude wrote:On March 21 2014 18:59 Grovbolle wrote:On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote:latest post from Johan: On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote:everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me ) i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg. He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him. But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create. Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story... On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote:
I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways. That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ? Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child. But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say. +1 Of course Naniwa didn't handle this well but his team/ sponsor (and maybe even IEM) made a huge mistake in forcing him to play. I guess this was the last battle in a fight for dominance behind the scenes.
Yes ! thank you ! that what i was trying to say. It's complicated to explain this in english.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
For what it's worth, there were no ''consequences''. The only time we heard of a player maybe not attending was Taeja who had injured wrists. We heard about naniwa not wanting to have come on site (after the reddit thread saying he hadn't practiced in 2 months etc).
Sad day either way.
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On March 21 2014 19:23 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 19:22 Penev wrote:On March 21 2014 19:17 FFW_Rude wrote:On March 21 2014 18:59 Grovbolle wrote:On March 21 2014 18:52 FFW_Rude wrote:On March 21 2014 16:07 DaftFunk wrote:latest post from Johan: On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote:everything that happened was extremly silly, to be honest i told my team atleast 5 times that i didnt want to go and that they should make iem get a replacement for me. but my team didnt agree with this and also IEM said that they would highly recommend me to go or there would be consequenses ( this is what my team told me ) i would ofcourse not want to go to waste my time playing a tournament in a game i dont even practice anymore as it was a huge waste of time but as i said i was forced to because of SPONSOR Things, and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there and doing what i did when i didnt even wanna go or play sc2 in the first place funnily enough. but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. its a bit funny tho that ppl think other people deserve the spot ( Yes i wanted to give it away cuz i didnt wanna play the tour ) but i won it fair and square by going top2 at newyork, if other people wouldve "deserved it" then they could learn to qualify to tournaments by their own skill so what he did was bad, but i dont know if he desrves to be kicked off of alliance/eg. He broke like every rule of the blizzard WCS rules so he should be punished sure. But the "there will be consequences" is : WTF ? The guy wants to quit. And threatened him ? I mean, i really don't like Naniwa. I REALLY DON'T. But this is fucked up to threaten a guy... If you want to fire him. Fire him. The guy said he didn't want to do that job anymore. So you break contract. You don't force him. But Naniwa is bad publicity (like iDra was. Strangly i like iDra) but you deal with it. Maybe alliance wasn't prepared enough to absorb the shitstorm Naniwa could create. Naniwa is a really good player. A bad sportmanship and e-sport representative. But you don't kick a guy after threateing him to do something. This is bad management. But we only have one part of the story... On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote:
I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways. That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion Well. I wouldn't buy any products too. This is not Rude (well it kind of is :p :p) but if i don't like something/someone, why would i give them money ? Lol. He was asked to do his job, and he didn't. Of course you tell him to do it, and fire him when he behaves like a spoiled child. But they shouldn't have let him go there. They should have fired him before. Or maybe they didn't have official reasons at that moment. But you know the guy, he's going to do shitty things so you don't send him and you part ways. Safer for your sponsors that way too. That's what i was trying to say. +1 Of course Naniwa didn't handle this well but his team/ sponsor (and maybe even IEM) made a huge mistake in forcing him to play. I guess this was the last battle in a fight for dominance behind the scenes. Yes ! thank you ! that what i was trying to say. It's complicated to explain this in english.
But you also cant be sure what were those fights behind the scenes if Naniwa made it completly clear that he wanted to stop with the game or be like Stephano and still kindof play but not be fully commited. I also think that Alliance didnt want to get pressured into letting Naniwa get out of his contract freely, just because of the possible image danger (which they now certaintly got) which Naniwas bm might give to them.
So it kindof sucks for everyone (including the viewers) involved into Starcraft
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On March 21 2014 17:20 Glorfindel! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 17:10 Grumbels wrote:On March 21 2014 17:04 blade55555 wrote:On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote:Naniwa does what Naniwa does  Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote:
im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
tournaments by their own skill I love how people desperately try to defend his actions! And they always have a Swedish nationality. Can we please stop this? Id say there are quite many swedes in the community strongly condemning Naniwas attitude and personality. However - it seems like many people like you feel some kind of desperate need to point out that all swedes are fans of Naniwa - which clearly is not the case. If you had any idea about the Swedish community you would know that Naniwa is not as apriciated as you might think.
Thats not what Blade said at all. Just because he hinted at all Naniwa defenders being swedish (which is probably reaching too) it does not mean that all swedish sc2 fans are Naniwa defenders. Relax..
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On March 21 2014 18:57 b0rt_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 18:51 TheFlexN wrote:This doesnt sound surprising to me but it doesnt make me happy, if he is taking a long break, leaving the team would happen one way or another. It sucks that it ends with such negativity and that people will remember more him leaving IEM more than him having some of the best results of non-korean players last year. + Show Spoiler +Also incontroll and rotterdam are the same person obviously It was always going to end this way, if he left gracefully he would have to come back and throw a few spanners in the works for good measure.
Still, I feel like that even though he is notorious for BM or complaining about balance, I see no reason for us to say "hey, all these things aside, he was still an awesome player", I feel like we are focusing on all the negative things and it will result in his results to be forgotten. Its similar to idrA, we all remember so well all of the "idrA rage" things, but hardly anybody noted that he won big tournamets, played BW for CJ and was one of the players that created the zerg macro style that is standard today.
We need to make sure we dont forget naniwa as the amazing player he was, have the negative things as just a side note, reminding us only to not worship him.
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On March 21 2014 18:29 Peqqz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 18:27 boxerfred wrote:
I wouldn't by any products that Naniwa is doing advertisement for anyways. That was pretty rude. I dont know if this helps this Disscusion
Hmyep, second sentence is true. Though it's not rude to Naniwa, he did so much to not be loved that it already hurts. Although, some (lots) of people enjoy his mindset and style. It might not the place to state it, but if people can say "I'll buy the same gaming stuff as my favourite player wears", I can say "I won't buy anything that sponsors one of the players that I think are basically pretty bad at sportsmanship, politeness, etc".
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who cares about naniwa nowadays anyway?! yao
User was warned for this post
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On March 21 2014 19:31 jeri wrote:
who cares about naniwa nowadays anyway?! yao
You do, thats why you posted in this thread. lol
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On March 21 2014 18:56 TT1 wrote:
how many more bridges until ur left stranded naniwa? it doesnt matter how good you are, everytime something like this happens you lose alot of money over it. progamers dont have very long careers
AHAHAHAHAHAH are you serious? The last time I remember you doing well was the GSL versus world shit in 2011.
It does matter how good you are, unless you're getting paid mad money that no one's heard about.
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it's too bad because he's a great player when motivated, and I love watching him lose 3-4 to great Koreans, but i can't say i'm surprised to see him flame out yet again, so that part of me is unsurprised.
also, there are a lot of people in this thread that apparently have never held a job.
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On March 21 2014 19:14 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 19:11 ACrow wrote:
How can you expect to be payed by a team for a game that you have no intention on playing and then complain when you are fired?
At least he tried to give away the tournament spot, that would have been the right thing to do. Where did he complain about being removed from the team or say that he expected to continue to be paid?
This sure sounds like complaining to me:
and ironically enough i got kicked out of the team for going there
If he didn't want to go there and didn't want to stay on the team, he wouldn't go. If you as an employee don't fulfill your contract, the worst consequence will be that you are fired*. So he obviously felt threatened by the thought of being fired and thus had some expectation of benefit by being employed.
*except for the very rare circumstance of contractual penalties for the employee in case of not fulfillment, which are rare in the real world and I for sure doubt that they are part of professional esport player contracts
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I saw a few people defending him "a good manager would not let him go etc"
I can t get this since he is and got paid to bring results like this (going to a 100k tournament is already awesome promotion) on top of that he was the only foreigner which is even better promotion.
A real professional would go there try to play his best and after this talk to his team to find a solution for his future....
Don t get me wrong i really dont like to push someone for something he really doesnt like but when i sign a Pro Gamer and pay him thousands of dollars a month i want him to play this kind of stuff cause then i am getting a return of what i ve invested.
We want to become professional? We compare eSport with real sport? Then please lets start to act like pros as a organiztation but expecially also as a player and this kind of behaviour is good for some drama but bad for what tournaments like IEM etc are aiming for.
NaNiwa is a unique guy hard to control actually almost no way you can control him. How many big Starcraft II tournaments did he say he confirms that he visits the tournament and just close before the event he refused but only if you ask him again to make sure he is going....7-10times i guess (3times Asus 3times my own HSC x times Dreamhack)
I m that kind of guy who likes some drama but with IEM even when he didnt like the game anymore or wasnt active enough it has just shown his poor character and was to much!
Just my 2 cents
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EPT
