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Some people said something stupid and you turn stupid as well?
At least shit on the right people instead of calling out people who felt upset about what he did.
Most things aren't black and white but it doesn't mean you don't get a say or opinion on things.
Terrorists are still bad even if they have reasons leading to their horrible acts.
Our society won't be able to function if we can't even pin point what is right and what is wrong just because there is always another side to the story.
We learn to adjust the punishment based on the reasoning and the attitude of the person.
What he did was horrible for every party involved.
His reasoning wasn't good enough for many of us to give him a pass for this one.
Some comments might have gone too far but do you really feel surprised at people feeling upset for his actions?
Do you feel we are pathetic to have a negative opinion on him when his excuse is fairly poor and deemed unacceptable?
He blamed on the tournament sound proof, he blamed the management, then he publicly says he hate the community (ish)
Come on.
And macdonald job is service heavy, do you think naniwa is even suitable for a job like that?
Just because a job has a low skill requirement doesn't mean everyone is suited for the job.
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On March 24 2014 02:31 JSK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2014 02:28 Kaktusblad wrote:I was a fan of Naniwa through all of the other things, but after IEM he lost all the goodwill he had with me. His way of treating the community and fans through all of this has just been horrible. Understandable that they kick him off Alliance. And JSK, You come on a forum, waving the argument of "you can't judge X because you are not X", which isn't a reasonable argument. And you keep on drawing a clear line between "judging" and "criticizing", a line which nobody but you seem to understand. You generalize everyone in a thread saying that all posters are like the worst, calling the thread a crusade. You call people bigots and you insult peoples motivations and keep on putting your self on a high horse instead of having a reasonable discussion. The ironic thing is that this makes you look like a person with a weak ego that needs to shit on others to boost his self esteem. On March 24 2014 02:05 JSK wrote:
Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-( Maaaan, this isn't the way to reason with people.... If you want to see why people are upset about this, you may read TBs posts. He explains it nicely I think. Alright, I'll give you this one: I shouldn't have said that. It did detract from my posts and was not constructive even in the slightest. There, I've tried to be reasonable. Can that be said for anyone else? I disagree that the argument I made is not a reasonable argument by the way. People having different life experiences and therefore not being able to judge other people is definitely something I believe in, though it is not that black and white. For example, many people judge this community because they think that by virtue of being a video game, starcraft is somehow silly or unworthy of investment of time. Just one example, but I am sure we have all felt this type of sentiment, or at least many of us. You can think I am a weak person that "needs to shit on others" and that is fine that you think that because I am just a random name on the internet, as are you. I am weak in many ways. But I am the only person who has admitted to being wrong about anything thus far. To me that does not mean weak. However, it is completely fine if you feel that way about me. Again, it has no effect on my life. Bigots was an example. You, like most, clearly did not read my posts. So the feeling of irony is mutual. If you want to come in here throw in your 2 cents, read in depth first. None of these admissions change what my point is: the people in this thread throwing out the judgements 1) didn't respond to my point that I was specifically addressing the ridiculous notion that Naniwa isn't even worth a minim wage job. That is judgmental and ridiculous, and just as looking down on intolerant people does not make one intolerant, so do I feel that I have not been overly judgmental or intolerant. If you are initially judgmental of someone, you can't just say that any criticism of you yourself is judgmental in return. Just an intellectually weak cop-out and exactly what, for example, the anti-gay crowd says about people who call them bigots.
I guess this is the post you are referring to:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 24 2014 00:05 JSK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2014 23:49 SupLilSon wrote:On March 23 2014 22:25 Blargh wrote:On March 23 2014 21:33 doggy wrote:On March 21 2014 17:25 b0rt_ wrote:
Is Nani rich? What is he going to do now? How do you hold a job with an attitude like that? I doubt anyone would give a personality like him a job in real world, he has just been lucky in sc2 due his good skill. In RL his attitude will screw him even more than it did in sc2. Btw, GJ Alliance  You seem to think that real jobs have much resemblance to being a professional SC2 player. Basically, the two ways of being successful in SC2 is either by promoting your sponsors a shit-ton (look at Incontrol) or by being skilled, indirectly promoting your sponsors (every Korean? Naniwa?). So, Naniwa only cared about being #1 (the best). His poor attitude is a result of that. There are very few situations where one would ever hold that kind of competitive mindset in their job. In addition, Naniwa only had his "job" (was part of Alliance), not so much to make money, but to be able to play the game. If he were to have a real job, it's incredibly unlikely he would behave in such a way, since he'd probably only be doing it to make money. Also, in real life, it actually is quite common to have a highly skilled or talented employee who has TERRIBLE public relations. A lot of scientists are like that. Their motive is to progress science while the motive of the employer is to make something marketable. Every time you guys say "GJ Alliance", I just sigh. Where did they do a good job? By firing an employee who basically quit their job, ANYWAY? Like, yeah, that's pretty logical. I don't keep paying people who quit their job, either. What wasn't a good job was sending Naniwa to the event. That was a bad job. The reason Alliance had Naniwa on the team was because he was skilled and seen as one of the best foreign players. Since he was not even close to "one of the best foreign players" at that point (he hadn't played in a month), they were basically asking him to go there and lose 3 games to Polt. Naniwa had no shits left to give, and Alliance expected otherwise. It's entirely possible that Alliance would have kept Naniwa on the team, even as a non-SC2 player, had he... actually cared at the event and maybe, cheesed all 3 games instead of cheesing 1 and forfeiting... But who knows? You have an incredibly narrow perspective on the situation. This situation goes beyond public relations. As you said, Naniwa was never the player to care about his image in the scene, promoting sponsors or appeasing the management. If you aren't going to do any of those you better at least PLAY THE GAME. He's always lauded as a player that "doesn't give a shit" about anything about the game itself and winning so it's pretty hilarious that in the end he goes out without even fighting. Naniwa's parallel to a real world scientist would be a scientist refusing to do anything in the lab and then crying when his supervisor tells him to pack his bags. Not to mention those scientists have probably worked for years obtaining a Phd or building valuable lab experience. What does Naniwa have, half a high school degree? As others have said, with his attitude I'm not even sure he'd be able to secure a job at McDonalds. Anyone who's worked in the real world can tell you there's virtually no room for this kind of behavior. What exactly do you have? The time on your hands to write about someone who in your words isn't even significant enough to warrant a job at Mcdonalds? What does that make you? Laughable, that's what. Spew all the rage at me you want. You're a professional at one thing: accumulating a high post count on a forum (albeit, the best forum I've ever had the pleasure of taking part in, but nonetheless.) By the way, how is he not in "the real world"? Was his experience as a professional hallucinated? And don't give me some bullshit about how your job is more important or more based in reality. You tell yourself that because Naniwa had the courage to pursue something he loved despite his family nearly disowning him for it, while you didn't. Just don't buddy. It is you that has an incredibly narrow perspective on the situation, but you cannot see that - because the truly ignorant do not know they are ignorant. No doubt you will respond with some defensive, incoherent babble. I welcome it, but I will not read it- so I would not bother if I were you. PS - I disagree with many things Naniwa did because I want the best for the Starcraft scene. That does not mean the rage in this thread is justified.
The post you respond to is really quite factual and to the point. You respond with personal insults. You blow the McDonald-portion way out of proportion, he never says Naniwa doesn't deserve a job at McDonalds. You seem to take his post as a personal insult.
Edit: Sorry for going offtopic. I'll stop it now.
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ETisMe, you're right. Naniwa probably doesn't qualify for a job at McD. He most likely wouldn't be able to put on the fake smile eight hours a day.
Other than that, I just want to show my support for JSK. Sadly, I think it's a lost cause to even try to argue these points to this crowd. Those who it would do well to listen to them, won't ever do so, and the rest of us are just him preaching to the choir. It doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted though, so I'm grateful their thoughts come into the open. Blargh made some good posts too. Thanks for guys for championing a point I believe many stand behind but are too tired to vocalize anymore. Be wary that the slightest mistakes you make in your posts will be attacked and used to distract from the main points.
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On March 24 2014 02:31 JSK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2014 02:28 Kaktusblad wrote:I was a fan of Naniwa through all of the other things, but after IEM he lost all the goodwill he had with me. His way of treating the community and fans through all of this has just been horrible. Understandable that they kick him off Alliance. And JSK, You come on a forum, waving the argument of "you can't judge X because you are not X", which isn't a reasonable argument. And you keep on drawing a clear line between "judging" and "criticizing", a line which nobody but you seem to understand. You generalize everyone in a thread saying that all posters are like the worst, calling the thread a crusade. You call people bigots and you insult peoples motivations and keep on putting your self on a high horse instead of having a reasonable discussion. The ironic thing is that this makes you look like a person with a weak ego that needs to shit on others to boost his self esteem. On March 24 2014 02:05 JSK wrote:
Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-( Maaaan, this isn't the way to reason with people.... If you want to see why people are upset about this, you may read TBs posts. He explains it nicely I think. Alright, I'll give you this one: I shouldn't have said that. It did detract from my posts and was not constructive even in the slightest. There, I've tried to be reasonable. Can that be said for anyone else? I disagree that the argument I made is not a reasonable argument by the way. People having different life experiences and therefore not being able to judge other people is definitely something I believe in, though it is not that black and white. For example, many people judge this community because they think that by virtue of being a video game, starcraft is somehow silly or unworthy of investment of time. Just one example, but I am sure we have all felt this type of sentiment, or at least many of us. You can think I am a weak person that "needs to shit on others" and that is fine that you think that because I am just a random name on the internet, as are you. I am weak in many ways. But I am the only person who has admitted to being wrong about anything thus far. To me that does not mean weak. However, it is completely fine if you feel that way about me. Again, it has no effect on my life. Bigots was an example. You, like most, clearly did not read my posts. So the feeling of irony is mutual. If you want to come in here throw in your 2 cents, read in depth first. None of these admissions change what my point is: the people in this thread throwing out the judgements 1) didn't respond to my point that I was specifically addressing the ridiculous notion that Naniwa isn't even worth a minim wage job. That is judgmental and ridiculous, and just as looking down on intolerant people does not make one intolerant, so do I feel that I have not been overly judgmental or intolerant. If you are initially judgmental of someone, you can't just say that any criticism of you yourself is judgmental in return. Just an intellectually weak cop-out and exactly what, for example, the anti-gay crowd says about people who call them bigots.
It's funny you talk about my post count as if it means anything. I barely post on this forum as of late.
Contrary to what you believe, many of us are basing our opinions on much more than just personal experience. We are taking into account tons of parallels. Yes, in most of our experience there is virtually 0 tolerance for this kind of behavior in the everyday workforce. I'm sorry if this insults you but E-Sports is still in it's infancy... It has a very long way to go in many aspects. Teams such as EG/Alliance are doing a great job at pushing for this professional environment by enforcing contracts, rules ,and regulations.
If a Football or Basketball player for example, decided to just quit playing halfway through a game or a season there would be fines at the very least and quite possibly more severe consequences. Players who repeatedly display this kind of attitude or lack of professionalism would be punished more and most likely without a job. Sure, if you're a Lebron, Jordan, Ronaldo, a superstar among superstars then maybe you will get some leeway. But even those guys all show more dedication and sense than Naniwa. Whos the last Kespa player that stormed off the stage to make angry tweets? If there was one we probably dont hear about him anymore because hes not playing for a team.
Now to get a bit real, sorry if this sounds scathing. Did Naniwa finish highshcool? I recall reading that he dropped school to go pro at WC3 and eventually SC2. It's a well known phenomenon in sports such as soccer/football, basketball and american football for uneducated players to blow all their money (usually small fortunes in traditional sports) within years of leaving their league. These players arent necessarily stupid but theyve spent every day learning a highly specific sport, not how to manage money or navigate the real world.
Yes, there is a "real world" that exists and when you practice a game for 8-10 hours a day or years you might not fully understand things like dealing with taxes, or putting a mortgage down, investing your money, etc. So yes.. no high school degree, no relevant job skills.. our personal opinion doesn't weigh in too much when we say that doesn't qualify you for much. And again, based on logic, a job you land with those qualifications is going to be entry level where you are easily replaced. There is not going to be any tolerance for hissy fits and breaking the rules.
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On March 24 2014 02:26 JSK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2014 02:19 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2014 02:17 JSK wrote:On March 24 2014 02:13 Plansix wrote:On March 24 2014 02:04 ACrow wrote:
This thread has gotten hillarious. Please, tell us more how people should stop judging public figures on the internet.
*popcorn* Yeah, the thread has gone full amazing at this point. Its one man against the internet, but he will win. I can't win against someone who has time to make as many posts on the internets as you, that's for sure. And I certainly can't win against someone as amazingly witty as you. You're missing the point: I don't think I will convince anyone at all. This is enjoyable. Ok, the discussion is over, he is citing posts counts. No further rational discussion can be had at this point. You still haven't responded to multiple posts I made directed at you. No rational discussion was going to ever be had. You're entirely too selective about what you reply to and what you don't. It seems to me you care entirely too much about being showing off on an internet forum than discussing anything with any substance. Your post count and number of meaningless one-liners are evidence enough of that. I feel as if you are very insecure. Whereas I for example, do not care because "JSK" is an internet entity that means nothing to me. You are obviously much more invested in this than me. That is what I am getting at by your post count. If I cared for the approval of various forum-goers I would not be making these posts. I think it's enjoyable to argue with people like you. Call me crazy.
Double post maniac!!! LMFAO
Personality like your beloved Naniwhine huh.
Seems like things aren't working out well for you.
Seeing as you are spending such unhealthy amount of time in this thread.
I hope things turn around for you.
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On March 24 2014 04:18 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2014 02:31 JSK wrote:On March 24 2014 02:28 Kaktusblad wrote:I was a fan of Naniwa through all of the other things, but after IEM he lost all the goodwill he had with me. His way of treating the community and fans through all of this has just been horrible. Understandable that they kick him off Alliance. And JSK, You come on a forum, waving the argument of "you can't judge X because you are not X", which isn't a reasonable argument. And you keep on drawing a clear line between "judging" and "criticizing", a line which nobody but you seem to understand. You generalize everyone in a thread saying that all posters are like the worst, calling the thread a crusade. You call people bigots and you insult peoples motivations and keep on putting your self on a high horse instead of having a reasonable discussion. The ironic thing is that this makes you look like a person with a weak ego that needs to shit on others to boost his self esteem. On March 24 2014 02:05 JSK wrote:
Though it is disheartening to talk to so many people I feel could actually benefit from electroshock treatment :-( Maaaan, this isn't the way to reason with people.... If you want to see why people are upset about this, you may read TBs posts. He explains it nicely I think. Alright, I'll give you this one: I shouldn't have said that. It did detract from my posts and was not constructive even in the slightest. There, I've tried to be reasonable. Can that be said for anyone else? I disagree that the argument I made is not a reasonable argument by the way. People having different life experiences and therefore not being able to judge other people is definitely something I believe in, though it is not that black and white. For example, many people judge this community because they think that by virtue of being a video game, starcraft is somehow silly or unworthy of investment of time. Just one example, but I am sure we have all felt this type of sentiment, or at least many of us. You can think I am a weak person that "needs to shit on others" and that is fine that you think that because I am just a random name on the internet, as are you. I am weak in many ways. But I am the only person who has admitted to being wrong about anything thus far. To me that does not mean weak. However, it is completely fine if you feel that way about me. Again, it has no effect on my life. Bigots was an example. You, like most, clearly did not read my posts. So the feeling of irony is mutual. If you want to come in here throw in your 2 cents, read in depth first. None of these admissions change what my point is: the people in this thread throwing out the judgements 1) didn't respond to my point that I was specifically addressing the ridiculous notion that Naniwa isn't even worth a minim wage job. That is judgmental and ridiculous, and just as looking down on intolerant people does not make one intolerant, so do I feel that I have not been overly judgmental or intolerant. If you are initially judgmental of someone, you can't just say that any criticism of you yourself is judgmental in return. Just an intellectually weak cop-out and exactly what, for example, the anti-gay crowd says about people who call them bigots. It's funny you talk about my post count as if it means anything. I barely post on this forum as of late. Contrary to what you believe, many of us are basing our opinions on much more than just personal experience. We are taking into account tons of parallels. Yes, in most of our experience there is virtually 0 tolerance for this kind of behavior in the everyday workforce. I'm sorry if this insults you but E-Sports is still in it's infancy... It has a very long way to go in many aspects. Teams such as EG/Alliance are doing a great job at pushing for this professional environment by enforcing contracts, rules ,and regulations. If a Football or Basketball player for example, decided to just quit playing halfway through a game or a season there would be fines at the very least and quite possibly more severe consequences. Players who repeatedly display this kind of attitude or lack of professionalism would be punished more and most likely without a job. Sure, if you're a Lebron, Jordan, Ronaldo, a superstar among superstars then maybe you will get some leeway. But even those guys all show more dedication and sense than Naniwa. Whos the last Kespa player that stormed off the stage to make angry tweets? If there was one we probably dont hear about him anymore because hes not playing for a team. Now to get a bit real, sorry if this sounds scathing. Did Naniwa finish highshcool? I recall reading that he dropped school to go pro at WC3 and eventually SC2. It's a well known phenomenon in sports such as soccer/football, basketball and american football for uneducated players to blow all their money (usually small fortunes in traditional sports) within years of leaving their league. These players arent necessarily stupid but theyve spent every day learning a highly specific sport, not how to manage money or navigate the real world. Yes, there is a "real world" that exists and when you practice a game for 8-10 hours a day or years you might not fully understand things like dealing with taxes, or putting a mortgage down, investing your money, etc. So yes.. no high school degree, no relevant job skills.. our personal opinion doesn't weigh in too much when we say that doesn't qualify you for much. And again, based on logic, a job you land with those qualifications is going to be entry level where you are easily replaced. There is not going to be any tolerance for hissy fits and breaking the rules.
Indeed there is. Why don't you all go join it instead of writing multiple paragraphs of utter garbage that barely anyone is going to read or care about.
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Well, he did say he doesn't want to play SC2 so he would have left the team anyways. Plus, after he walked off I'm not surprised at all that the tam let him go.
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On March 24 2014 01:26 JSK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2014 01:20 Shinta) wrote:On March 24 2014 01:00 JSK wrote:On March 24 2014 00:57 ETisME wrote:On March 24 2014 00:43 JSK wrote:On March 24 2014 00:40 ETisME wrote:On March 24 2014 00:12 JSK wrote:On March 24 2014 00:11 ETisME wrote:On March 24 2014 00:01 JSK wrote:
So ridiculous that people are upset about this in any way. Stop judging others using your own life experience. None of you are pros at his level, are you? No, just armchair starcraft pros playing at being professionals. And yes, I'm quite aware of the vitriolic rage about to be spewed at me by the exceedingly self-righteous posters of this forum.
He shouldn't have probe rushed. He shouldn't have quit. He shouldn't have done many of the things he did. But there's a 33 page thread written about him, and not about a single one of you. So suck it up and be great yourselves or stop spewing bullshit. It's sickening. I guess to some people like you, having a 33 page of thread is a sign of greatness. But I won't say that if most people in the thread are hating on him and I think it says more than enough about his reputation. I guess in a sense its an achievement lol It's not a sign of greatness. His achievements and status as arguably the best or one of the best foreigners to ever play the game is a sign of greatness. He has an attitude problem, but so do you. Instead of living your life for yourself you live vicariously through others, like a parasite - and criticize them when they fail. And yet you achieve very little for yourself. What Naniwa has achieved is more than you could ever dream of no doubt? I'm sorry if that hurts, but if you reply to my thoughts with some childish one-liners, then you'll just have to deal with it. Tell me what you have ever done that warrants recognition? Please, do tell. I fully recognize that you very well could be doing something significant, but until you prove it, your attitude makes you an armchair quarterback and nothing more. ? That doesn't give him an immune status for me to critize lol My achievement is that I actually saved a person's job because his passport somehow was sent to my address by the UK visa border control and I tracked down his location and mail it back to him and apparently he almost lost his dream job because he had no passport to travel back for interview. I personally think my achievement is pretty impressive since I am achieving good for others. And you are wrong. Naniwa achievement to me, worth very little because I am not interested in becoming big in programing. My dream is a lot bigger to me, may not be to you or anyone else. Your greatest achievement is that you returned a lost passport? I do not know how to reply to this without at least some measure of sarcasm. Naniwa's achievements may be worth very little to you, and at least you realize that this is relative - but come on man. You remind me of people who buy the tabloids in the grocery store checkout aisle. Yea, well Iike I said, it doesn't give him immunity for anyone to critize. naniwa is probably like a superstar to you, I guess like a child who looks up to a soccer superstar? One day you will realize there are other aspects in humanity that isnt about achieving high in measurable context. My achievement is my proudest one because another person would have lost his job which he hunted for months. Without my help another person would have lost his dream. Sorry but I do regard my achievement pretty important to me since it shows a lot of what kind of person I am and I am proud of who I am. On the other hand, naniwa selfishness and lack of responsibility etc makes him the last person I would want to be and his achievement will never be enough to turn him into a person I won't critize. Hahaha, I've upset you? I guess so, judging by the ad-hominems. And by the fact that you clearly didn't even read what I wrote- you're so consumed with trying to prove to me that you're right. No one in their right mind could think Naniwa is a superstar to me if they'd read what I wrote about him. Namely, that he is a quitter, has attitude problems, and that I have al ow opinion of him. I literally wrote that within the last page, but you didn't bother to look, did you? In my opinion, that makes you all the more pathetic. I'm glad that you realize that human achievements are all relative, but this isn't about me or what I will "one day" realize. (lmao) Naniwa is the last person you would want to be? Wow. Just wow. To be fair, it's your initial argument that is bogus... We have to shut up and have no ability to criticize him because he's a pro and we're not? This just tells me you have no clue what you're talking about, but I read on anyways only to find that you really don't. You're saying that everyone on this site is an armchair professional just because you don't know us in person, and require proof of our relevance before even considering an argument or criticism valid? lol, you shouldn't have an account on a forum. Without criticism, there would be no greatness, and without greatness, the bar for achievement would be set so low that anyone would be able to achieve it. Why are there rules? Any kind of rules... Game rules, laws, even house rules that you make up? That's because people have criticized the opposite, and the community, whether it be 2 people or millions, have agreed to a standard and set the bar for others to follow. Nothing would progress otherwise. The world would still be a feudal place if people didn't care about "armchair professionals". Straw man again, you can criticize him. What's ironic is that I'm SEEMINGLY not allowed to criticize you. You don't need to shut up. I responded to the sentiment about him not being worthy of a McDonald's position, as I have elaborated on before. Whether or not you believe I have or haven't a clue of what I'm talking about is of no consequence to me. And yes, I require proof of one's relevance if they are going to attack someone in an online forum and insinuate that they are not worthy of a minimum wage job because they didn't want to play Starcraft professionally anymore. You didn't say that personally, but that's what I responded to. "lol, you shouldn't have an account on a forum?" - Good one dude! I fully agree that without criticism there would be no greatness. That is PRECISELY why it is so FUNNY that if I criticize ANY of the people currently doing the criticizing (of naniwa) , they suddenly find it unacceptable to be critical! If you can't take it, don't dish it out brotha
What? Why wouldn't you be able to criticize me? Just post something legitimate and I'll read it.
You may have initially responded to some McDonnalds post, but I responded to the post I quoted. Regardless of what you started off fighting for, you either got off topic or were too zealous and said a few things that didn't belong.
If somebody says NaNiWa is complete trash and doesn't deserve to live, that person is either really angry and isn't thinking straight, or wasn't raised properly in my opinion. McDonnalds thing falls under similar lines.
You can criticize them, but what you said and I responded to was not something you can't legitimately say and expect people to continue listening to you.
You throw away your own credibility, ironically, after speaking of others credibility.
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Naniwa is an intelligent person who has shown an ability to dedicate himself to something and achieve results. He could get an education and a job if he were to decide he'd want to transition away from sc2. What's this ridiculous notion he would end up in mcdonalds? It seems like an attempt to be judgmental and harsh to me, for whatever reason.
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On March 24 2014 06:07 Grumbels wrote:
Naniwa is an intelligent person who has shown an ability to dedicate himself to something and achieve results. He could get an education and a job if he were to decide he'd want to transition away from sc2. What's this ridiculous notion he would end up in mcdonalds? It seems like an attempt to be judgmental and harsh to me, for whatever reason.
It's harsh, but there's some truth in there too. The way he acts in general is not something that is appreciated in a workplace. I have no doubt he's a smart guy, but he might want to master his emotions a bit more.
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On March 24 2014 06:07 Grumbels wrote:
Naniwa is an intelligent person who has shown an ability to dedicate himself to something and achieve results. He could get an education and a job if he were to decide he'd want to transition away from sc2. What's this ridiculous notion he would end up in mcdonalds? It seems like an attempt to be judgmental and harsh to me, for whatever reason.
Exactly. You don't get to be arguably the best Caucasian in SC2 without some serious dedication.
He's also made a fair bit of quid, and we all know college is a piece of piss for rich people.
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meh, Defending him or not. His attitude is not meant for a team. Unless that team is filled with constant trolls. Then he can complain and be angry all the time. I can't say I am glad he is gone, but people who don't have the right mindset and is poor sport towards the community don't belong in the Esports Scene. Which dropping games purposely and rumbling about nonsense is a dis to the community as a whole. I am not a known person, but I do run a gaming community of my own for last 5 years, and I wouldn't tolerate any of his nonsense. One time maybe, but after that get da ban hammer. It hurts everyone around you to be negative all the time and just throw excuses instead of manning up to your problems. Its also like a leech if they some how manage to get close with other players he can drag them down to his level and it just spreads.
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maybe jsk is naniwa... hehehe~
if nani was in kespa, im confident he will be punished in some way...
there is absolutely no way kespa will just sit and do nothing....
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On March 24 2014 08:47 riyanme wrote:
maybe jsk is naniwa... hehehe~
if nani was in kespa, im confident he will be punished in some way...
there is absolutely no way kespa will just sit and do nothing....
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Do you think he can go through GSL Code A?. I think he can if he keep practicing, he was gifted among the foreigner but with this attitude he can't go far. Naniwa... u are good player but not good in manner.... Please be a MAN!!!
it's a waste......
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On March 24 2014 06:21 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2014 06:07 Grumbels wrote:
Naniwa is an intelligent person who has shown an ability to dedicate himself to something and achieve results. He could get an education and a job if he were to decide he'd want to transition away from sc2. What's this ridiculous notion he would end up in mcdonalds? It seems like an attempt to be judgmental and harsh to me, for whatever reason. It's harsh, but there's some truth in there too. The way he acts in general is not something that is appreciated in a workplace. I have no doubt he's a smart guy, but he might want to master his emotions a bit more.
Talent and fame gets you leverage. Beethoven acted very similar to Naniwa during his lifetime but nobody gave a shit because he's fucking Beethoven and smoked every other composer living in his day.
Rule: if you want to act unique, you need to become the best first. Naniwa has accomplished that somewhat.
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On March 24 2014 06:07 Grumbels wrote:
Naniwa is an intelligent person who has shown an ability to dedicate himself to something and achieve results. He could get an education and a job if he were to decide he'd want to transition away from sc2. What's this ridiculous notion he would end up in mcdonalds? It seems like an attempt to be judgmental and harsh to me, for whatever reason.
he wouldn't even be able to hold a job at mcdonalds
hey naniwa, i ordered a big mac with no big mac sauce
*naniwa walks off*
posts anti-mcdonald comments on twitter
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On March 24 2014 16:46 Emerson_H wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2014 06:21 maartendq wrote:On March 24 2014 06:07 Grumbels wrote:
Naniwa is an intelligent person who has shown an ability to dedicate himself to something and achieve results. He could get an education and a job if he were to decide he'd want to transition away from sc2. What's this ridiculous notion he would end up in mcdonalds? It seems like an attempt to be judgmental and harsh to me, for whatever reason. It's harsh, but there's some truth in there too. The way he acts in general is not something that is appreciated in a workplace. I have no doubt he's a smart guy, but he might want to master his emotions a bit more. Talent and fame gets you leverage. Beethoven acted very similar to Naniwa during his lifetime but nobody gave a shit because he's fucking Beethoven and smoked every other composer living in his day. Rule: if you want to act unique, you need to become the best first. Naniwa has accomplished that somewhat.
Alliance didn't tolerate naniwa so he lacked the talent and fame to gain leverage for his actions
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On March 24 2014 17:02 PrideNeverDie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2014 16:46 Emerson_H wrote:On March 24 2014 06:21 maartendq wrote:On March 24 2014 06:07 Grumbels wrote:
Naniwa is an intelligent person who has shown an ability to dedicate himself to something and achieve results. He could get an education and a job if he were to decide he'd want to transition away from sc2. What's this ridiculous notion he would end up in mcdonalds? It seems like an attempt to be judgmental and harsh to me, for whatever reason. It's harsh, but there's some truth in there too. The way he acts in general is not something that is appreciated in a workplace. I have no doubt he's a smart guy, but he might want to master his emotions a bit more. Talent and fame gets you leverage. Beethoven acted very similar to Naniwa during his lifetime but nobody gave a shit because he's fucking Beethoven and smoked every other composer living in his day. Rule: if you want to act unique, you need to become the best first. Naniwa has accomplished that somewhat. Alliance didn't tolerate naniwa so he lacked the talent and fame to gain leverage for his actions
You don't want to do your job anymore you tell them as soon as you know. Hopefully it's the 2 weeks you should give to let them prepare but if not you just don't show up.
You don't show up and leave an upperdecker in the women's bathroom then come out wagging your dick at people (well unless they really treated you like shit or want to be you tube famous). But based off Naniwa I'd say it's safe to bet he was the dick.
Naniwa essentially quit and let them talk him into showing up for work anyway. He made himself and anyone associated with him look bad. He burned a lot of bridges with that 'performance' and he made himself a liability to essentially the entire esports community.
Whether it was any worse than what some other active players have done is debatable but when it's so public and notorious it's going to be hard for people to forget.
The irony is it could follow him into other fields as they could be esports fans and heard about his attitude/performance.
Quitting a job isn't a big deal just about everyone does it at some point it's about how you do it. There is no question he didn't do it right.
Maybe he was trying to get fired so he could collect unemployment?
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One big thing I see missing from this entire thread is the reason why Naniwa was "forced" to go to IEM. You don't need to be an industry insider to understand it, you just need to pay attention.
Alliance paid Naniwa a regular salary. They have been paying that salary so that he doesn't have to work another job and can concentrate on SC2. The payoff for Alliance is Naniwa giving them positive exposure on a big stage. That big stage was IEM.
If you've been paying a guy for months so that he will represent you well at IEM, you expect him to be there. When he says, "I haven't been practicing and don't want to go to IEM", what do you do? Do you just fire him and flush the thousands of dollars down the drain that you've been paying him to practice for the last few months?
Or do you tell him, "You need to go there and try your best and if you don't, you'll be breaching your contract"? Breaching a contract might even include a financial penalty beyond just getting fired. So Alliance expected him to go, play 3 games and give them exposure for having the only white guy in the tournament. Alliance gets their exposure that they've already paid for while Naniwa gets a free trip, a long-shot opportunity at $100k, and another chance to show himself as the best foreigner just by playing out 3 games. Everyone wins and it makes sense to the Alliance management to twist his arm into going.
It was the logical thing for the Alliance management to do because it was the scenario where everyone wins. After the tournament, they would probably officially break off the contract in a more mutually beneficial way and everyone goes home happy with Naniwa probably even getting some severance pay (like EG did with Idra).
Instead, Naniwa went full Naniwa and everyone loses. The Alliance brand is hurt and I'm not so sure that Naniwa will get anything anymore.
So where does that leave Naniwa? He made a decent bit of money through salary and earnings, but I don't see him as the type to save it all up. He's the guy that rented out an entire theater to watch Huk lose, right? That doesn't exactly sound like a guy who spends money wisely. So now he's out of a job, probably not getting any severance, probably doesn't have much savings, doesn't have much of an education, and doesn't have good people skills. He's screwed.
If you've ever read a book called "Outliers", he reminds me of this one guy that's a true genius (by IQ), but can't seem to succeed because he lacks people skills. Naniwa has a few extremely great qualities which helped him become one of the best ever foreigners in SC2 and could help him be great in a future career, but I'd bet that his people skills will hold him back.
As someone who wants to see SC2 players succeed in the game and then transition into the rest of their life successfully, the Naniwa case is shaping up to be a cautionary tale. I hope other ESports pros will learn from this case and make better decisions.
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@RenSC2, do you give this same speech for every player that's temporarily teamless?
Naniwa can still probably leverage his e-sports fame into money if he wants to. You don't know if he burned through all his life savings, Naniwa supposedly has had to live on his own for quite a while and I don't know why you shouldn't expect at least a tiny amount of frugalness. And what's to say that Naniwa will not learn from his actions and adjust his behavior when he would have to work with other people in a different environment? And if you don't have an education you can actually go to college, you know that right? You're not stuck at your current education level forever. Naniwa lives in Sweden and I assume they have student loans and so on, and he's smart and has shown an ability to be dedicated and achieve results, assuming he wants to go to college.
You're talking about an actual person, you can't just argue that his life will be terrible and he's doomed forever based on a number of assertions that you have no proof for and that are malicious speculation. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with people in this thread. Go become successful at something in your own life before trying to burn Naniwa to the ground.
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EPT
