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I don't know why everyone expects Professional SC2 players to be "role-models" or the standard for how people should behave. Look at professional athletes in any sport and the reason they are paid money to play a sport is because of their talent on the field. Shit Ray Lewis played football and will probably be in the hall of fame even though he went to trial for murder. There are plenty of shitty people that turn out to be good at a sport, and the same thing is true in SC2.
Even so, I doubt forfeiting his spot at IEM is sole reason he is kicked off the team. Once you're no longer bringing in the gains you normally were, which NaNiwa isn't since he hasn't practiced and is taking a break from the game, the things you do that are a detriment to the sponsors and the team is no longer worth it to put up with. So it's pretty understandable that he was kicked off.
And everyone who seems to be the ultimate judge of morality and life lessons, like really? Who cares, people cheered for NaNiwa because he was good at SC2, not because he's this stand up guy or such a good person. That much is pretty obvious.
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On March 22 2014 10:11 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote:
They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments? In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet.
sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc...
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On March 22 2014 09:34 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 07:55 tokinho wrote:
best foreigner.. lol.. not even the best foreign protoss. Sase better. Too bad sase not given the chance to compete as much as Naniwa. Naniwa's self proclaimed best foreigner title. What a joke.. Just gave himself that because protoss is stronk in hots. Stephano was better than Naniwa will ever be.
I would rather have state or sase as my player. How does Naniwa forget it took stephano when zerg was op to stop him after getting through the korean gauntlet.
TLO,Dayshi, Vortix has more points in wcs than Naniwa. They have all won tourneys. Sase has won one series against a Korean in the latter half of 2013/2014, and it was against Daisy, whose overall win rate is under 50%. What? I also want to point out that sase hasnt won any first prize titles in the year 2013, and I personally believe that coming to Taiwan was a detriment to his career. He was only able to compete in 4 or 5 offline events in TW and CN since the end of 2012.
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Something is seriously wrong with a majority of the posters on this thread.
A lot of you are shitting on Naniwa for telling his sponsor "I haven't been practicing, and I really don't want to go to this tournament for which I qualified." He may have good reasons. He may not. It doesn't really matter. If what he says is even remotely true, then I am questioning leadership of Alliance and IEM to an extent.
Imagine I told my boss that I don't feel like working for the next few months. My boss may say, "Is there something wrong?" If I were to just say no. That's cool. Your boss may say that if you don't show up you're fired and will more than likely be prepared to move on if you're really that dumb to tell your employer such things. All of this is just the worst case scenario in my opinion. It would make even less sense if Naniwa actually gave them any sort of qualifying reason.
I'd honestly like to know what the fuck Alliance and IEM are thinking. I would've fired him the minute he came to me with that crap. Would any of you let Naniwa go to the tournament to possibly crap on the team's name and the show IEM is trying to put on? I would find that extremely questionable. I wouldn't be surprised if this whole tirade doesn't affect anything attached to Alliance's name in the future.
Also, anyone denying Naniwa's skill is a moron. I could list the stats, but doing that doesn't fix stupid. None of this is to say he should be excused for his poor judgment. I just don't understand this drama over someone who has repeatedly demonstrated childish antics. I bet some of you people are still shocked that politicians lie.
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On March 22 2014 10:21 t e a C h e r wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 10:11 GolemMadness wrote:On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote:
They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments? In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet. sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc...
Yes because sports like tennis don't have a team to give you salary and/or provide housing. In tennis you pay for your own flights. You pay $300 for stringing and a year of that costs around $9000. You aren't in a position in Tennis to say "well I don't want to try to win that tournament." You could win and pay for those expenses you didn't do as well or future ones. Evne rafael Nadal played Australian Open with a back problem. He doesn't really need the money since he's the second highest earner ever but his passion for the sport to not give up pushed him on. Esports is like babysit in comparison because of the structure of it and maybe the lack of it in some aspects. Then you get the type of post above mine that can't grasp how naniwa just took advantage of the situation he was in and couldn't even play his best in the last tournament he was in. According to Naniwa it only takes him 2 weeks to train to win a tournament. Really?
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Something is wrong with Naniwa's team? As long as he was taking a pay check and under contract he needed to go. Once he doesn't play he has broken contract. When you sign a contract you can't just do whatever you want...
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On March 22 2014 11:13 Eliezar wrote:
Something is wrong with Naniwa's team? As long as he was taking a pay check and under contract he needed to go. Once he doesn't play he has broken contract. When you sign a contract you can't just do whatever you want...
Ok. Let's say you are an employer. Would you continue to pay someone who's not showing up to work?
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On March 22 2014 10:27 chaos021 wrote:
Imagine I told my boss that I don't feel like working for the next few months. My boss may say, "Is there something wrong?" If I were to just say no. That's cool. Your boss may say that if you don't show up you're fired and will more than likely be prepared to move on if you're really that dumb to tell your employer such things. All of this is just the worst case scenario in my opinion. It would make even less sense if Naniwa actually gave them any sort of qualifying reason. It all depends on the contract, on which we don't know anything.
If you've got a contract for a fixed period and you can't leave whenever you want, you can announce you'll leave once it has ended but you're supposed to keep doing your job until the very last day. Even if you hate it. If you don't, you get fired (and potentially fined/sued depending on the job/company).
Hating your job is (unfortunately) not that rare, but people still do it because, you know, they like having a paycheck from time to time. And that's the way you get it.
If you've got a contract that you *can* stop whenever you want, then once you decide to stop, just stop. Don't keep getting paid without doing anything, then actually work *against* your employer (in this case by creating a whole lot of bad publicity for the company and its sponsors), wait to get fired then criticize your ex-employer for having refused to let you do nothing while still getting paid. Where's the logic in that?
The employer is not supposed to fire people who say they want to stop. They're supposed to leave, and keep doing their job until they actually leave.
The employer *is* supposed to fire people who are getting paid (even if they're saying they want to stop, that simply does not matter) but are not doing their job anymore. Or worse, are actively hurting the company.
We have no idea about the contents of this contract, so we can only base our opinions on the way jobs work around us. In my case, I can totally understand an employer expecting an employee to do his job professionally until the end of his contract, even if he already said he'd be leaving afterwards. An employee who doesn't do that exposes himself to *heavy* repercussions. Simply getting fired is a pretty friendly one.
Over here, if you tell your boss you're leaving, you still have three months to go before actually leaving. If you stop doing your job, you get fired and fined. If you *really* don't want to keep working and leave right now, you *pay* the employer for the three months you should have been working (and that's still lower than what the "fired and fined" option would cost). That's how it works from where I'm standing, and based on this, Naniwa got a pretty nice deal.
In short, whether you like your job or not does not matter. You're getting paid to do a job. If you don't do it, you get fired. That's pretty much the most standard thing ever for a company.
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On March 22 2014 10:55 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 10:21 t e a C h e r wrote:On March 22 2014 10:11 GolemMadness wrote:On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote:
They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments? In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet. sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc... Yes because sports like tennis don't have a team to give you salary and/or provide housing. In tennis you pay for your own flights. You pay $300 for stringing and a year of that costs around $9000. You aren't in a position in Tennis to say "well I don't want to try to win that tournament." You could win and pay for those expenses you didn't do as well or future ones. Evne rafael Nadal played Australian Open with a back problem. He doesn't really need the money since he's the second highest earner ever but his passion for the sport to not give up pushed him on. Esports is like babysit in comparison because of the structure of it and maybe the lack of it in some aspects. Then you get the type of post above mine that can't grasp how naniwa just took advantage of the situation he was in and couldn't even play his best in the last tournament he was in. According to Naniwa it only takes him 2 weeks to train to win a tournament. Really?
Or just because even the slimiest Tennis Pro isn't a whiny shitbag who'll bite the hand that feeds him.
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"If you ain't been a part of it, at least you got to witness, bitches"
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On March 22 2014 10:21 t e a C h e r wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 10:11 GolemMadness wrote:On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote:
They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments? In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet. sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc...
Maybe because if an athlete no longer wants to play that sport and hasn't practiced in over a month, they're either let go or given time to figure out what they want to do, instead of being forced to compete in events for which they're clearly not in shape.
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On March 22 2014 12:27 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 10:21 t e a C h e r wrote:On March 22 2014 10:11 GolemMadness wrote:On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote:
They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments? In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet. sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc... Maybe because if an athlete no longer wants to play that sport and hasn't practiced in over a month, they're either let go or given time to figure out what they want to do, instead of being forced to compete in events for which they're clearly not in shape.
Mario Balloteli famously stopped playing vs. the L.A. Galaxy. John McEnroe famously would quit playing to argue with the linesmen and curse them out. Really, does anyone really think Nani is a special case? There are people like this all over sports. E-Sports is certainly no different.
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On March 22 2014 10:55 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 10:21 t e a C h e r wrote:On March 22 2014 10:11 GolemMadness wrote:On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote:
They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments? In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet. sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc... Yes because sports like tennis don't have a team to give you salary and/or provide housing. In tennis you pay for your own flights. You pay $300 for stringing and a year of that costs around $9000. You aren't in a position in Tennis to say "well I don't want to try to win that tournament." You could win and pay for those expenses you didn't do as well or future ones. Evne rafael Nadal played Australian Open with a back problem. He doesn't really need the money since he's the second highest earner ever but his passion for the sport to not give up pushed him on. Esports is like babysit in comparison because of the structure of it and maybe the lack of it in some aspects. Then you get the type of post above mine that can't grasp how naniwa just took advantage of the situation he was in and couldn't even play his best in the last tournament he was in. According to Naniwa it only takes him 2 weeks to train to win a tournament. Really?
True, you don't have a team, but you do have sponsors up the wahoo.
Top 50 tennis players are like White Ra, Polt, viOLet, Grubby, etc. they are personally sponsored, need to market themselves appropriately, and can't be unprofessional. Don't talk about money, because that's not a topic worth going into. Getting last in a major gives you more than enough to settle any petty dispute you throw out like plane tickets, stringing, etc.
Bottom line is, if nobody liked Nadal (or if tournaments didn't like Nadal), if he didn't obey the rules set forth by the people paying him, etc etc, he won't get paid, won't even be allowed to participate, won't have a deal with Nike, won't have deals with x amount of other companies, won't get commercials for those and other random companies, and would have to make his entire living off of winnings alone.
You could say that top 50 tennis players make tons of money, but if you take into consideration their lifestyles and their families, they'd be broke if they were the NaNiWa's of tennis.
This was barely even a response to you though, and more of a response to some other posters.
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On March 21 2014 17:03 Gullis wrote:Naniwa does what Naniwa does  Professional or not from a personal view he didn't do anything that out of line. I love how desperate people are to give him shit Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 09:54 Naniwa wrote:
im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it.
tournaments by their own skill
Reading this make me wanna emigrate from sweden to another country, your'e a disgrace to our country! There will always be idiots...
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On March 22 2014 12:41 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 12:27 GolemMadness wrote:On March 22 2014 10:21 t e a C h e r wrote:On March 22 2014 10:11 GolemMadness wrote:On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote:
They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments? In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet. sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc... Maybe because if an athlete no longer wants to play that sport and hasn't practiced in over a month, they're either let go or given time to figure out what they want to do, instead of being forced to compete in events for which they're clearly not in shape. Mario Balloteli famously stopped playing vs. the L.A. Galaxy. John McEnroe famously would quit playing to argue with the linesmen and curse them out. Really, does anyone really think Nani is a special case? There are people like this all over sports. E-Sports is certainly no different.
If Nadal tells Nike he's going to compete, he's going to compete. His contract says so and he doesn't want to lose Nike. Even if he goes out by "injury" in one if the first rounds, he'll be there.
It's true that pro sports also have bad apples, but they are almost always punished to a degree, and only stay relavent because of their skills. Mario not playing even though he was signed to play, his team could have dropped him. Idk if McEnroe quit or was ejected from the tournament??
Refusal to play is one thing, breaking contracts and rules is something else, although they do often come hand in hand, it's up to the rule makers to decide how or if to punish the offender accordingly.
In this case, Alliance doesn't need Nani, who claims to be quitting. After Nani showed a blatant poor performance which probably breeched contract in one way or another (I'm willing to bet it did), Alliance dropped him, thus relieving themselves of responsibility for and over Nani.
Same could and/or would happen to any pro athlete who fucks with the people paying them.
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nani keeping it so real i don't even
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"but whatever im not sad and i dont really care anymore about that, im sure that if i practice 2 weeks in the future i can make the comeback as the best foreign player at any time if i feel like it. "
Funny how much pride and vanity someone who has lost interest in the game can take from his skill or talent at it.
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On March 22 2014 12:27 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 10:21 t e a C h e r wrote:On March 22 2014 10:11 GolemMadness wrote:On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote:
They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments? In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet. sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc... Maybe because if an athlete no longer wants to play that sport and hasn't practiced in over a month, they're either let go or given time to figure out what they want to do, instead of being forced to compete in events for which they're clearly not in shape.
I still am curious about this, how exactly do you imagin they forced him to play?
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On March 22 2014 19:58 Zeze wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 12:27 GolemMadness wrote:On March 22 2014 10:21 t e a C h e r wrote:On March 22 2014 10:11 GolemMadness wrote:On March 22 2014 10:08 Baarn wrote:
They really should've kicked Naniwa after the nation wars drama. He has shown time and time again he is only interested in Naniwa and when things don't work out how he wants he will go to lengths to stir drama no matter how childish it is then later come back with the same shitty apology. I guess in the esports scene it's cool to act like a douche as long as you can win a few tournaments? In sports, players insult each other, injure other players, cheat, etc. In e-sports, a player acts "unprofessional" and become the biggest scumbag on the planet. sure, but in pro sports, a team never rage quits at halftime, or a tennis player never quits after he loses the first set... etc... Maybe because if an athlete no longer wants to play that sport and hasn't practiced in over a month, they're either let go or given time to figure out what they want to do, instead of being forced to compete in events for which they're clearly not in shape. I still am curious about this, how exactly do you imagin they forced him to play?
They threatened "consequences". You know, they shook their cheque-books and said "or else".
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EPT
