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On March 22 2014 02:42 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 02:40 darkness wrote:On March 22 2014 02:38 BigFan wrote:On March 22 2014 02:37 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2014 02:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:On March 22 2014 02:32 Fran_ wrote:On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:
As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why. Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad). What exactly did he lie about? the Soundproofing? He claimed the sound proofing was the reason this cheese was detected and then went full drama queen. But if you read between the lines, it was pretty much an excuse to forfit. Came we prove it? No. But it seen more than likely Naniwa was always going to forfit. ya, that's what I think as well. It seems like a convenient excuse since he said he wanted to leave the scene If that's the case, then I'd speculate even further that he didn't want to get embarrassed be it due to lack of practice or whatever. Everyone expected him to lose 0-3 anyways so there was no embarrassment to speak of lol. All he had to do was play 3 games. cmon, you can't really tell me that's hard to do >.> Heck, he could easily cheese each game like 1 gate proxy, proxy stargate and 4 gate some game. There's a chance that Polt would defend and such so within 20-30mins, he's lost but fulfilled his obligations.
Being expected to lose and how he feels are two different things. The latter is different because his mentality is not of a loser as far as I understand his personality. So some people have hard time accepting losses. Btw, does anyone remember what Naniwa did vs Nestea? I think that's just another case where Naniwa hasn't learned.
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Just leave the scene and begone.... Please.. I hate how he talks lol, so childish
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51128 Posts
On March 22 2014 02:39 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 02:38 BLinD-RawR wrote:On March 22 2014 01:46 Darkhorse wrote:On March 22 2014 01:42 BLinD-RawR wrote:On March 22 2014 01:17 Darkhorse wrote:
...
Naniwa was still under contract with Alliance correct? That would mean that they pay, he plays. I don't see why he wouldn't have to play and his "My team made me go! How dumb is that?" attitude is bullshit.
Also how many times does he have to say "I don't care anymore"? He says it so much that one might take presume that he actually does care. no point in sending a guy out who won't do his best. I agree and I think they should've tried to find a replacement for him if he asked them to, but I also don't think it's unreasonable for them to want to have the guy they pay go and work for them. didn't he already say he was gonna call quits. Yes he did apparently. I don't know what this has to do with my post though :/
all I'm saying is that Alliance knowing full well what naniwa is like(AKA the whole I do what I want as I want attitude) and his current lack of interest in the game, shouldn't have forced him to play.
then again its also naniwa's fault for not retiring straight away, instead of waiting for his contract to lapse.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On March 22 2014 02:43 ThePlagueJG wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 02:41 BigFan wrote:On March 22 2014 02:38 ThePlagueJG wrote:On March 22 2014 02:37 BigFan wrote:Well, not really surprising lol. He didn't fulfill his duties as part of Alliance and got fired for it. Hope he works on his personality, more specifically his BM and such. Best of luck to him! On March 22 2014 02:35 ThePlagueJG wrote:On March 22 2014 02:32 Fran_ wrote:On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:
As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why. Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad). DO we have any proof on this? Don't just say ''because he didn't want to go there''. other players, LoL players and such said that there were no soundproofing issues. Keep in mind that soundproofing is not 100% possible without expensive equipment so you can make the same claim he did for every tourney if that's the case. LoL player doesn't use booths, but it is truth that it is impossible to fully seal the sound, that's no lie. I don't like that people speculate and assume things as if they are truths. Honestly, if he really wanted to not play anymore, he should've resigned from the team way back when he first decided on it(2 months ago he stopped playing the game) then that's enough time to find replacement. He would've had to burn bridges with alliance and IEM but then he wouldn't have landed in this position. If he couldn't just resign like that, he should've just proxy 1 gated 3 games in a row or something to lose faster if he's that against playing. Now that is something I can agree with, but done is done  That was my only feeling about everything. Just get destroyed and leave and everything will be good, but he chose his own way which sucked for us all.
yep. I expected he'll just lose due to lack of practice or something so I got shocked that he just forfeit and blamed soundproofing. Did make for some entertaining read afterwards lol.
On March 22 2014 02:44 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 02:42 BigFan wrote:On March 22 2014 02:40 darkness wrote:On March 22 2014 02:38 BigFan wrote:On March 22 2014 02:37 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2014 02:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:On March 22 2014 02:32 Fran_ wrote:On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:
As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why. Yeah, the lying was also very childish (and sad). What exactly did he lie about? the Soundproofing? He claimed the sound proofing was the reason this cheese was detected and then went full drama queen. But if you read between the lines, it was pretty much an excuse to forfit. Came we prove it? No. But it seen more than likely Naniwa was always going to forfit. ya, that's what I think as well. It seems like a convenient excuse since he said he wanted to leave the scene If that's the case, then I'd speculate even further that he didn't want to get embarrassed be it due to lack of practice or whatever. Everyone expected him to lose 0-3 anyways so there was no embarrassment to speak of lol. All he had to do was play 3 games. cmon, you can't really tell me that's hard to do >.> Heck, he could easily cheese each game like 1 gate proxy, proxy stargate and 4 gate some game. There's a chance that Polt would defend and such so within 20-30mins, he's lost but fulfilled his obligations. Being expected to lose and how he feels are two different things. The latter is different because his mentality is not of a loser as far as I understand his personality. So some people have hard time accepting losses. Btw, does anyone remember what Naniwa did vs Nestea? I think that's just another case where Naniwa hasn't learned.
If his contract said he had to play x games, then he should play them even if it means losing which is hard to take. He signed with Alliance so he obviously knew what to expect. Honestly, I find this whole mentality thing as another excuse in this case. Yes, he hates losing and doesn't have the loser mentality (so he should win everything then or he'll be depressed, right?) but that's not valid when you have a job to carry out. It's not like they are asking him to do something big either. He just has to play 3 games, think about it, 3 games only. He could easily cheese them then lose and finish it. It wouldn't take any time but he chose the other route.
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On March 21 2014 16:12 DarKFoRcE wrote:
If he isnt playing anymore there wouldnt be much of a point for him to stay in a team anyway, no?
Seems reasonable to me.
tell that to ex-mTwRINE
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On March 22 2014 02:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close. So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate.
You as a team owner have clearly better data of what economical damage is done by things like that, so I can't really disagree with you here, but if that is true, why does this case deserve so much more attention than the cases we had before? Tyler forfeit a series after game 2 during NASL, which is as big as IEM, and never got fired for that, Stephano forfeit an invitational before the finals and Millenium never did anything to him.
From the perspective of the team, I can understand their reaction and thus your point, but the amout of hate he gets from the community is getting blown out of proprtion.. And saying, that nothing in the last 4 years comes close is just simply wrong IMHO, if you think about the Spades and Daisuke incidents we had, those were far more severe. Ofc. what Nani did was not a prime example of sportsmanlike behaviour, but it still was within the rules. Having a map-hacking player on your team will probably get you more negative attention than what Nani did. His comeback is still a possibility, but those two are gone and no team will ever take them back.
On March 22 2014 02:36 Dingodile wrote:
I am worried about scarlett. She is now #1 foreigner without any foreigner rivalry and I can understand that she is not motivated anymore.
Be #1 feels great for few days/weeks but then you hate it, especially if you dont have competition for many weeks/months/years (you can think #1 is meaningless).
2014 results indicate, that Snute/TLO have surpassed her at this point, Vortix or Nerchio aren't that far away either. I think, the spot of the number 1 foreigner is widely open.
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United States23455 Posts
On March 22 2014 02:48 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 02:39 Darkhorse wrote:On March 22 2014 02:38 BLinD-RawR wrote:On March 22 2014 01:46 Darkhorse wrote:On March 22 2014 01:42 BLinD-RawR wrote:On March 22 2014 01:17 Darkhorse wrote:
...
Naniwa was still under contract with Alliance correct? That would mean that they pay, he plays. I don't see why he wouldn't have to play and his "My team made me go! How dumb is that?" attitude is bullshit.
Also how many times does he have to say "I don't care anymore"? He says it so much that one might take presume that he actually does care. no point in sending a guy out who won't do his best. I agree and I think they should've tried to find a replacement for him if he asked them to, but I also don't think it's unreasonable for them to want to have the guy they pay go and work for them. didn't he already say he was gonna call quits. Yes he did apparently. I don't know what this has to do with my post though :/ all I'm saying is that Alliance knowing full well what naniwa is like(AKA the whole I do what I want as I want attitude) and his current lack of interest in the game, shouldn't have forced him to play. then again its also naniwa's fault for not retiring straight away, instead of waiting for his contract to lapse.
Yeah I agree. I think Alliance should have allowed him to bow out and found a replacement. They could have easily negotiated for JD to get an invite in his place and boom your team is still represented.
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As usual, he acts like a child. Zero professionalism. Arrogant.
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Now i know why some people say those horrible things like "i wish you X" 
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Players act like this because they know it doesn't matter, when he makes his comeback (not if) he will be picked up instantly by a team, might even be alliance again.
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On March 22 2014 02:40 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 02:36 Enel wrote:On March 22 2014 02:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:forfits are not that big of a deal. Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close. So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate. Guess what? We are all alive. It wasn't the apocalypse. Good counter argument... "No one died, so I guess it doesn't matter at all."
That's not at all what im sayin. It does matter and Naniwa got fired for it. I just feel like TB is on a mission to crucify Naniwa and i don't like it. He's in every Naniwa post or thread with the same shitty message.
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2014 results indicate, that Snute/TLO have surpassed her at that point, Vortix or Nerchio aren't that far away either. I think, the spot of the number 1 foreigner is wildly open.
It's a close race for sure, but to say TLO and Snute has surpassed her I just straight up disagree with. They have yet to demonstrate that they can beat the same caliber opponents with anything resembling regularity. I think Snute has the potential to become a serious rival for Scarlett, but he's not there just yet. She's also had a pretty big slump recently, let's just wait and see until she gets to settle down a little in Korea before we jump to conclusions.
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lol. "it's a sponsor thing" Of course it fucking is, since the sponsor ist PAYING you, and your "work" ist to show off his brand.That's why you have a extra shirt... If I would go to my boss and say "Um, I don't want to work on that project, and I didn't really work in the last 4 month" they would not be happy either. Jesus.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On March 22 2014 02:59 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +2014 results indicate, that Snute/TLO have surpassed her at that point, Vortix or Nerchio aren't that far away either. I think, the spot of the number 1 foreigner is wildly open. It's a close race for sure, but to say TLO and Snute has surpassed her I just straight up disagree with. They have yet to demonstrate that they can beat the same caliber opponents with anything resembling regularity. I think Snute has the potential to become a serious rival for Scarlett, but he's not there just yet. She's also had a pretty big slump recently, let's just wait and see until she gets to settle down a little in Korea before we jump to conclusions.
I thought we settled this. Scarlett is going to Korea to ask Wolf for hair advice and find Byun.
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On March 22 2014 03:01 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 02:59 Squat wrote:2014 results indicate, that Snute/TLO have surpassed her at that point, Vortix or Nerchio aren't that far away either. I think, the spot of the number 1 foreigner is wildly open. It's a close race for sure, but to say TLO and Snute has surpassed her I just straight up disagree with. They have yet to demonstrate that they can beat the same caliber opponents with anything resembling regularity. I think Snute has the potential to become a serious rival for Scarlett, but he's not there just yet. She's also had a pretty big slump recently, let's just wait and see until she gets to settle down a little in Korea before we jump to conclusions. I thought we settled this. Scarlett is going to Korea to ask Wolf for hair advice and find Byun.
I'd like to think she can sneak a little SC in there somewhere
Though I'll take a new haircut over a GSL title any day.
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On March 22 2014 00:48 YoloSwaggins wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 23:41 Sakray wrote:On March 21 2014 23:25 Scorch wrote:
Naniwa forfeited the tournament, which was a huge affront to the organizers This is absolutely bullshit, if forfeiting is a huge affront, then why do they give the right to do so to the players ? Jeez how can people be so delusional? I guess most of these comments come from 14 year olds who have never worked for a second in their lives. if you don't do your job, you're fired. if you get money to do something, and you don't do it, you get fired.
As a 22 y/o working as a developer for one of the biggest company in the world, I'll take that as a compliment.
But I'll use another example : you're developer, and your company puts you on a project where you depend of the files the client sent you. If the said files are utter bullshit and you can't do anything with it, it's your right to say to your company "I can't do the work" and step off of the project. It's a bit extreme but you get the idea.
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On March 22 2014 01:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 01:42 Dracolich70 wrote:On March 22 2014 01:22 Plansix wrote:On March 22 2014 01:14 Dracolich70 wrote:On March 22 2014 00:59 TotalBiscuit wrote:As far as I'm concerned there is nothing worse than forfeiting a $100,000 exclusive high-profile event in front of a pissed off crowd and then lying about your reasons why. It is never fun being humiliated, when you have already said, your heart is not in it, and yet, sent away to do. I am sure, someone as intelligent as you can understand, TB(or at least your private side of the business). Not sure, if the soundproof thing was a lie, but I find it human to fetch an excuse, when being humilated for reason you already knew beforehand. Regardless of any notion of otherwise, I am sure, most players play for their own, rather than for a bunch of people paying to watch them play out of form. Stephano forfeited plenty of tournaments as far as I recall. Not in this fashion. Context is king. And Naniwa is a grown ass adult with a job. What he did is like one of my attorneys losing it infront of a judge and getting held in contempt. You get fired for that shit. Life is hard in the working world, get a helmet. Yes, context is king. I am sure you would get fired for sending one of your attorneys unsuitable to take a case, because he lost it, while being warned by that employee beforehand, that he couldn't. Oh that would never happen. We are paid to take losing cases we don't want all time. Not every client hires you for a winner. No one is excited to get their ass handed to them on court, but we do it because is paychecks. So no, we always do things we don't like, because we are professionals. Maybe that shows the difference. You are willing to do anything for a paycheck, whereas Naniwa is not. Naniwa is a winner, and cares if he is in a position to win or not.
I am sure, you make sure you pick people who care about the paycheck more than being the winner. So different premises I am sure. So context is king, as you said.
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On March 22 2014 02:59 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +2014 results indicate, that Snute/TLO have surpassed her at that point, Vortix or Nerchio aren't that far away either. I think, the spot of the number 1 foreigner is wildly open. It's a close race for sure, but to say TLO and Snute has surpassed her I just straight up disagree with. They have yet to demonstrate that they can beat the same caliber opponents with anything resembling regularity. I think Snute has the potential to become a serious rival for Scarlett, but he's not there just yet. She's also had a pretty big slump recently, let's just wait and see until she gets to settle down a little in Korea before we jump to conclusions.
When I say, that they surpassed her, I don't mean surpassing her at her peak, but surpassing her in her current state. She lost at Shoutcraft, Enders game invitational, WCS AM, while the euro zergs both advanced in WCS and held at Seatstorycup. I'd still rate a 2013 Scarlett above them at the moment, but she hasn't shown to be in that shape for a while now.
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I'm curious as to how Alliance forced him to travel to Poland to play
Please don't tell me the threat was that he would be fired
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On March 22 2014 02:50 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 02:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:forfits are not that big of a deal. Entire crowd booed him. Clearly they disagree with you. I as a team owner disagree with you. Had any of my players done that on that stage I would have fired them immediately. It was bad enough when CranK overslept and missed an open bracket game at an MLG, management took full responsibility for that. Then there was the issue of his lackluster play against his team-mate in WCS, there were consequences for that too. The bad publicity we received from both, well there are people who still bring up the WCS thing and that was a year ago and RO16 of a WCS America, not the biggest stage in Starcraft with $100k winner takes all. How your player acts reflects directly on the team. They are contracted to do a job and they are expected to perform their duties to a certain standard. In doing so they represent the team and their sponsors. Anything that player does which generates bad publicity reflects poorly on all of the above. This was the most severe thing I've ever seen an SC2 player do in his capacity as a player and in the context of a tournament environment. Nothing in the last 4 years comes close. So yeah, to say forfeits are not that big a deal shows an awful lot of ignorance about how the pro-scene works and how teams operate. You as a team owner have clearly better data of what economical damage is done by things like that, so I can't really disagree with you here, but if that is true, why does this case deserve so much more attention than the cases we had before? Tyler forfeit a series after game 2 during NASL, which is as big as IEM, and never got fired for that, Stephano forfeit an invitational before the finals and Millenium never did anything to him. From the perspective of the team, I can understand their reaction and thus your point, but the amout of hate he gets from the community is getting blown out of proprtion.. And saying, that nothing in the last 4 years comes close is just simply wrong IMHO, if you think about the Spades and Daisuke incidents we had, those were far more severe. Ofc. what Nani did was not a prime example of sportsmanlike behaviour, but it still was within the rules. Having a map-hacking player on your team will probably get you more negative attention than what Nani did. His comeback is still a possibility, but those two are gone and no team will ever take them back. Show nested quote +On March 22 2014 02:36 Dingodile wrote:
I am worried about scarlett. She is now #1 foreigner without any foreigner rivalry and I can understand that she is not motivated anymore.
Be #1 feels great for few days/weeks but then you hate it, especially if you dont have competition for many weeks/months/years (you can think #1 is meaningless). 2014 results indicate, that Snute/TLO have surpassed her at this point, Vortix or Nerchio aren't that far away either. I think, the spot of the number 1 foreigner is widely open.
Stephano and Tyler both forfeit in online tournaments, right? that maybe shouldnt matter, but it does. running off stage in front of that crowd is something different. people will remember that, because it created a lot of drama and attention. partly also because their reasoning was different that naniwas. nani blames the tournament, claims they are sabotaging his performance. i really don't think these cases are all that similar, and i don't think kicking naniwa was unjustified. we can argue whether stephano should have faced more severe consequences, because his excuse was also kind of weak, but i don't think that naniwa has much to complain about here.
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EPT
