EPTThe one with Rain was fun because of it's outrageous balance whining.
[Interviews] 2014 GSL Season 1 Code S Ro8 Winners - Page 3
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Ctesias
4595 Posts
The one with Rain was fun because of it's outrageous balance whining. | ||
|
klup
France612 Posts
On March 20 2014 19:19 Qwerty85 wrote: 2 base blink had 80% success rate at IEM. But he is right about one thing. When both players go into macro game and protoss doesn't use their aggressive builds, matchup looks much more even. Best example is Rain's PL game against Flash where it was like they had "a gentleman's agreement" not to cheese or all in each other. But that is hardly an evidence that protoss is forced into early game aggression if they want to have the chance in a macro game. Nothing really changed in the unit compositions since WoL and protoss always had strong late game... the widow mine has been added to the composition of terrans recently which is a huge change. However seing Rain vs Flash game I didn't feel that terran was that OP and honestly Flash won more because of a sick engagment than anything else. The game seemed very close. The problem is that blizzard has no simple solution to blink allin because it is too hard to fix simply. If you nerf Mscore people will use sentry hallucination to blink up and you can't think about nerfing both Msc and sentry it makes no sense. You can't buff either terran defenses as bunker rush would be OP. Anyway we will still have to wait&see | ||
|
bhfberserk
Canada390 Posts
I think it definitely take times for Protoss players to adjust the widow mine play. It took awhile for zerg players to play against mines. | ||
|
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
| ||
|
Glorfindel!
Sweden1815 Posts
Heart of the mines - Rise of the patch Terrans The imbalance in the game right now is reaching BL/Infestor-levels. Terran is taking over the ladder. Meanwhile in another world: 7/8 participants in the major finals 2014 being Protoss. Protoss wins every major tournament played 2014. 3 Terrans makes into GSL Code S. Hmms... This was some interesting words from Rain  | ||
|
klup
France612 Posts
On March 20 2014 20:01 bhfberserk wrote: So OP. Like it is more OP than Infesters BL..... I think it definitely take times for Protoss players to adjust the widow mine play. It took awhile for zerg players to play against mines. You won't dare suggest that protoss use split on their deathball don't you? imagine the shock among them, oh god I don't even want to think about this it would be the end for them. | ||
|
Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
On March 20 2014 20:12 klup wrote: You won't dare suggest that protoss use split on their deathball don't you? imagine the shock among them, oh god I don't even want to think about this it would be the end for them. the horror! But honestly, come on. I understand that Widow Mines can now punish Protoss compositions like Zealot/Archon from attacking unattended across the battle while Terran struggles to micro back, but the issue lies in parity: Chargelots and Archons reward a-moving too much without a way for Terran to counter the composition because these units serve as a meatshield too well when upgraded. This is the exact same thing that Zerg had to learn to fight against at the beginning of the expansion when Widow Mines were introduced, and eventually they learned to overcome it. The matchup as a whole benefited because it added more tension, and neither side could a-move the other anymore. As far as strategy goes, Protoss have been able to play with extreme greed due to powerful early game Protoss options via their ability to scout, cheese, timing attack and hidden tech. This is a matter of Protoss now needing to dial back their greed and account for Widow Mines with a Robo instead of expecting to tech, upgrade and keep map control off of minimal investment, one gateway and a mothership core. | ||
|
moskonia
Israel1448 Posts
On March 20 2014 20:08 Glorfindel! wrote: Rains world: Heart of the mines - Rise of the patch Terrans The imbalance in the game right now is reaching BL/Infestor-levels. Terran is taking over the ladder. Meanwhile in another world: 7/8 participants in the major finals 2014 being Protoss. Protoss wins every major tournament played 2014. 3 Terrans makes into GSL Code S. All of those happened before the last patch except the last IEM which had 2 Terrans at the semi-finals. He admits that Blink all-ins are strong, but beyond early pressure Protoss is weaker than Terran. Zealot HT openings are now very weak because of the recent patches, and they just recently got more popular due to the weakness of Colossi opening to SCV pulls. I understand his logic, although it does seem he is overreacting a bit, Terran might have a small advantage in the mid and lategame, but he makes it sound like PvT is impossible if you don't go Blink. | ||
|
theMagus
578 Posts
| ||
|
Glorfindel!
Sweden1815 Posts
On March 20 2014 20:14 moskonia wrote: All of those happened before the last patch except the last IEM which had 2 Terrans at the semi-finals. He admits that Blink all-ins are strong, but beyond early pressure Protoss is weaker than Terran. Zealot HT openings are now very weak because of the recent patches, and they just recently got more popular due to the weakness of Colossi opening to SCV pulls. I understand his logic, although it does seem he is overreacting a bit, Terran might have a small advantage in the mid and lategame, but he makes it sound like PvT is impossible if you don't go Blink. Its still quite daring calling Terran as OP as BL-Infestor when the final of the 100K-event was a PvP... O.o However much the patch have changed - just stating that the imbalance in BL-Infestor-levels when TvP has been in the level it has been during the last MONTHS with all included that happends before the patch is quite... strong talking Terran gets a buff* on their mines and MSC has it visions reduced (just to make it a bit more balanced from being the overall best unit in the game - not even close) will probably not makeTerran go from actually being the worst race in the history of Starcraft 2 (during the last months) to actually reach BL-Infestor-level imblanace. Its not like the mines has free Nukes. For me as a Terran player, I take that as quite a strong insult and I dare to say I wont support anything that has do to with Rain anymore Edit: I gladly take bets btw on signatures in our post regarding if Terran will win as many tournaments as Zerg did during the Infestor-era, or just how many non-korean Terrans that will beat Korean players on major tournaments. Just make some suggestions, I am sure I will accept  Like: "We will have 3 different foreigner Terrans taking out Korean players in these major tournaments - if so I change my signature to "...." | ||
|
Pino
1032 Posts
| ||
|
Rustug
1488 Posts
On March 20 2014 15:28 Shellshock wrote: lol Rain's interview is kind of funny. I wonder if he would rather avoid Maru in the final since he claims Terran is so good or hope for a chance at revenge from OSL last year? Everyone right now should be afraid of Maru, rightfully so I think. No misguided Protoss opinion will change that. Still, it's funny to read when Protoss is trying to convince everyone they are underpowered, the under-dog. *smiles* | ||
|
Pino
1032 Posts
On March 20 2014 20:13 Lunareste wrote: the horror! But honestly, come on. I understand that Widow Mines can now punish Protoss compositions like Zealot/Archon from attacking unattended across the battle while Terran struggles to micro back, but the issue lies in parity: Chargelots and Archons reward a-moving too much without a way for Terran to counter the composition because these units serve as a meatshield too well when upgraded. This is the exact same thing that Zerg had to learn to fight against at the beginning of the expansion when Widow Mines were introduced, and eventually they learned to overcome it. The matchup as a whole benefited because it added more tension, and neither side could a-move the other anymore. As far as strategy goes, Protoss have been able to play with extreme greed due to powerful early game Protoss options via their ability to scout, cheese, timing attack and hidden tech. This is a matter of Protoss now needing to dial back their greed and account for Widow Mines with a Robo instead of expecting to tech, upgrade and keep map control off of minimal investment, one gateway and a mothership core. I think it's hard for protoss to accept that they might have to think before a-moving. I mean, i fully understand the fact that protoss being less mobile than terran and zerg must necessarily mean that they are more powerful. However, i don't like at all the fact that they can straight up a-move and just do the smallest amount of micro. I am glad WM finally force protoss to micro their engagements. | ||
|
royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
| ||
|
yoshi245
United States2972 Posts
On March 20 2014 10:54 Mahanaim wrote: Rain: inb4 GomTvT returning :D Good, TvT is still far more entertaining than PvP :D I think Rain is a little butt-hurt that Flash's Ghost Timing wrecked him earlier this week in Proleague. That may have carried over to his attitude of Terran is Imba. | ||
|
Champi
1422 Posts
| ||
|
klup
France612 Posts
On March 20 2014 21:09 royalroadweed wrote: "And even without all that, Terran is still too strong. It’s like WoL Brood Lord/Infestor level." Even without widow mines Terran is overpowered to the point of Bl/infestor? Rain is a good player, but that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Yep do you think that Rain just reached Avilo level of complain with this phrase? He is basically saying that the buff was unnecessary and so must be removed but also after that we should nerf terrans in some way because they are still OP. It seems like a common complain of a player that just lost couple of games on ladder and create a thread saying that X race is OP impossible to win. Very childish from a Korean progammer. | ||
|
Hypemeup
Sweden2783 Posts
| ||
|
GL999et1000
France229 Posts
In any cases, I am very surprised by his interview. At least he says what he thinks and that's refreshing. | ||
|
Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
| ||
| ||
