EPT[Interviews] 2014 GSL Season 1 Code S Ro8 Winners - Page 5
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On March 20 2014 23:07 ZAiNs wrote: Everyone hating on Rain even though Zest complains too and Flash says he went 68-2 in TvP practice >_<. It probably stems from the fact that what he is saying is completely decoupled from reality. It's like a German panzer general complaining that Polish cavalry is OP. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On March 20 2014 23:57 Squat wrote: It probably stems from the fact that what he is saying is completely decoupled from reality. It's like a German panzer general complaining that Polish cavalry is OP. Well yea Rain is probably exaggerating because Protoss OP has turned into some meme when he and other top Protoss don't think it's true at all. | ||
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VmY
Netherlands1286 Posts
On March 20 2014 23:44 ZAiNs wrote: If Flash actually did go 68-2 vs top Protosses then that does sound like a problem. It must get pretty sickening to have Protoss OP be some kind of meme and everyone on forums say Terran is shit when you feel if anything it is the other way around, that's probably why Rain is exaggerating. Really though Blizzard shouldn't do anything, progamers have shown time and time again that balance is a see-saw, the only exception being Infestor BL which was very clearly completely broken. He wouldn't practice with B-teamers every game if he wanted good practice, especially when he has Zest and Stats in the house and is probably friends with other very good Protosses. But he went 68-2 after the patch. We don't know yet if terran will really dominate protoss due to this patch, we'll see in the next few weeks/months I suppose. Progamers (of all 3 races) like to exaggerate though. | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On March 20 2014 23:58 ZAiNs wrote: Well yea Rain is probably exaggerating because Protoss OP has turned into some meme when he and other top Protoss don't think it's true at all. And yet, in the realm of reality, the one where we usually measure what is actually true or not, protoss is winning just about everything. Opinions, especially inherently biased ones, don't hold up well against facts. I am sure Rain and several other protoss players feel like it's really hard for protoss post patch. I am also sure it's largely irrelevant. We didn't buff zerg out the wazoo because Idra claimed the game was broken back in WoL. We look at who is actually winning and consistently doing well. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
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VmY
Netherlands1286 Posts
It seems like you’ve been becoming more attractive lately as well On March 21 2014 00:04 Saechiis wrote: That's some tight pants Zest is wearing there, cannot unsee o_O Hmmm..... | ||
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imrusty269
United States1404 Posts
On March 20 2014 23:58 ZAiNs wrote: Well yea Rain is probably exaggerating because Protoss OP has turned into some meme when he and other top Protoss don't think it's true at all. He is exaggerating because he wants to avoid a protoss nerf. Blizzard most likely asked protosses like him for feedback. And complaining about practice games that no one saw is just silly. The circumstances for the prctice games are unclear. Pretty sure Flash can not beat blink all in 68-2. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On March 21 2014 00:02 Squat wrote: And yet, in the realm of reality, the one where we usually measure what is actually true or not, protoss is winning just about everything. Opinions, especially inherently biased ones, don't hold up well against facts. I am sure Rain and several other protoss players feel like it's really hard for protoss post patch. I am also sure it's largely irrelevant. We didn't buff zerg out the wazoo because Idra claimed the game was broken back in WoL. We look at who is actually winning and consistently doing well. Protoss isn't winning everything, check Proleague... The tournaments that have finished so far in 2014 were won by Protoss because it was Kespa players who happened to be Protoss against WCS EU/AM Koreans who happened to be T/Z. Hell, Polt beat a shit ton of good Protoss players at IEM Cologne, Rain included, and just about lost to HerO in the finals. | ||
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Qwerty85
Croatia5536 Posts
On March 20 2014 23:59 VmY wrote: But he went 68-2 after the patch. We don't know yet if terran will really dominate protoss due to this patch, we'll see in the next few weeks/months I suppose. Progamers (of all 3 races) like to exaggerate though. Q: Is Protoss in a dominant position? Flash: To be honest, it is at the moment. But Protoss is not invincible. I believe I will get better and I am practicing hard. In the practice, I can win Protoss often. Flash on balance, David Kim etc. This is taken from Flash's interview on balance before the patch was live. So both pre and post patch, Flash said he is winning a lot against protoss in practice... Maybe that hard work finally paid off for Flash and he won because he played better and not because terran in TvP is the new BL-INF? Every patch changes the meta game a bit. When they were not aggressive, protoss players were very greedy with their openings and teched off just a few units. 9.40 min storm is/was not uncommon at all. I am not surprised at all that protoss have problems against something they never encountered before. Also, I am surprised Rain is so focused on TvP since there are good chances he won't even play a terran player in GSL at all. Most of his interview was about terran and how OP the race has become. | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On March 21 2014 00:17 ZAiNs wrote: Protoss isn't winning everything, check Proleague... The tournaments that have finished so far in 2014 were won by Protoss because it was Kespa players who happened to be Protoss against WCS EU/AM Koreans who happened to be T/Z. Hell, Polt beat a shit ton of good Protoss players at IEM Cologne, Rain included, and just about lost to HerO in the finals. I'm sorry, but this is where reality collides with bias once more. Every major tournament in 2014 has been won by protoss. 7 out of 8 finalists have been protoss. Protoss is still doing just fine in PL, just because they don't have 70% win rates anymore doesn't mean they're doing poorly. Imagine if DRG, at the height of BL/infestor, had come out and said that zerg late game was terrible and T and P were too strong. No matter how skilled and respected DRG was at the time, everyone who had any ability to observe and analyze reality would reach the same conclusion; that's fucking crazy. What Rain just said is the exact same thing, a statement that is completely at odds with almost everything we see in observing reality. We can argue the finer points of blink all ins, maps, immortal all ins etc. But claiming protoss is in a bad spot right now is fucking insane. | ||
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Xarles
459 Posts
On March 20 2014 23:50 Seeker wrote: I am so happy to see this thread get bumped this much. Tears of joy falling down my face right now... Thanks for the translations btw!  | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
Even good ones, and from every races. | ||
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N.geNuity
United States5112 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On March 21 2014 00:17 ZAiNs wrote: Protoss isn't winning everything, check Proleague... The tournaments that have finished so far in 2014 were won by Protoss because it was Kespa players who happened to be Protoss against WCS EU/AM Koreans who happened to be T/Z. Hell, Polt beat a shit ton of good Protoss players at IEM Cologne, Rain included, and just about lost to HerO in the finals. And these Kespa protosses got to those tournaments by beating Kespa Terrans in qualifiers... Protoss dominated the IEM KR qualifiers... And what about Code S... There is a backlash on Protoss players because the Protoss race has become as dominate as Terrans were in the GOMTvT era and the Lings of Liberty era. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On March 21 2014 01:28 vthree wrote: And these Kespa protosses got to those tournaments by beating Kespa Terrans in qualifiers... Protoss dominated the IEM KR qualifiers... And what about Code S... There is a backlash on Protoss players because the Protoss race has become as dominate as Terrans were in the GOMTvT era and the Lings of Liberty era. IEM qualifiers wasn't domination. It was unfortunate only 2 players could make it through because there is so much talent in Korea. In the Korean part it was 2 Protoss (Rain and Classic), 1 Terran (Cure) and 1 Zerg (Curious), hardly domination. Comparing Protoss to Infestor/BL is just as silly as comparing Terran to it. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12620 Posts
On March 21 2014 00:02 Squat wrote: And yet, in the realm of reality, the one where we usually measure what is actually true or not, protoss is winning just about everything. Opinions, especially inherently biased ones, don't hold up well against facts. I am sure Rain and several other protoss players feel like it's really hard for protoss post patch. I am also sure it's largely irrelevant. We didn't buff zerg out the wazoo because Idra claimed the game was broken back in WoL. We look at who is actually winning and consistently doing well. The realm of reality is also the place where we read what people are saying. For example, when Rain comes in and says "if you don't blink all-in you're in deep shit PvT", you don't point to tournaments where people blink all-ined their way to victory as a proof that he's wrong. It's possible that he's wrong, that people need time to adapt. I've been advocating for a while that the only balanced state we could reach in this game is when every race thinks every other race is OP, and I still don't know for sure that you can't open templar first with the new mines. But if you're gonna say he's an idiot, at least do it based on the things he wrote, not based on the things you assumed. | ||
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ManniBender
81 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17750 Posts
On March 20 2014 23:50 Seeker wrote: I am so happy to see this thread get bumped this much. Tears of joy falling down my face right now... haha, I need top koreans complaining about balance in my thread! | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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