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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 16 2014 23:57 covetousrat wrote: And Zerg wasnt during the BL Infestor era? Correct me if im wrong. Yes and in the era of TvT. Though he never really whined outright, just answered if people ask the question. | ||
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
On February 16 2014 23:57 covetousrat wrote: And Zerg wasnt during the BL Infestor era? Correct me if im wrong. But he is acting so high and mighty about balance whinning. Reading the English translation he makes it sound like he never balance whines because he is a pro gamer. | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
Some things never change | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On February 17 2014 01:06 TheAntZ wrote: First time checking out sc2 forum in years, and what do I see? Terran balance whining. Some things never change Please elaborate. | ||
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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Xorphene
United Kingdom492 Posts
Sure, there has been the odd unit imbalance, and will continue to be so from time to time as Blizz change things and new trends/OP builds emerge, but MAPS are the real, main problem. (See post about Daedalus). | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
No need, it speaks for itself. Balance whine is part of the meta. The race that is doing worst will always complain, valid or otherwise. | ||
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SiroKO
France721 Posts
It's always in relation to the maps. Unit stats balance can not be separated from the maps. And I think that, in most cases, it's an extremly inelegant game design to fix core balance issues through the reduction of the "possible map" space. If TvP is somehow balanced for T assuming a wide number of map characteristics, otherwise well T just plain die, then it is imbalanced. Besides, MC arguments are heavily flawed... It's not like HoTS is out since forever, the extension has only been there for a year... and the balance has been changed repeatedly. In other words, it's not surprising that balance issues didn't instantaneously arise after HoTS launch. Not to mention that late WoL TvP was already favoring P slightly. | ||
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reikai
United States359 Posts
After WoL, Terran had every barracks, factory, and some starport units nerfed because "Terran OP" on the forums. Please think before you post. Blizzard WILL listen to you, because they want the most people playing their games. Please don't just ruin the game for others by whining balance every time. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On February 17 2014 02:00 reikai wrote: For the love of starcraft and balance, please do not just whine balance every time a loss or tournament result occurs. MC is right, and some things are not balance related, but map related. After WoL, Terran had every barracks, factory, and some starport units nerfed because "Terran OP" on the forums. Please think before you post. Blizzard WILL listen to you, because they want the most people playing their games. Please don't just ruin the game for others by whining balance every time. The only reason why GomTvT and Zerg Bl/Infestor era are over is because of balance whine. And clearly result have shown that the balance is heavily favored toward Protoss. | ||
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DaedricTV
United Kingdom94 Posts
On February 15 2014 22:25 Nebuchad wrote: You can agree or disagree with the map assessment, but the way community treats players is fucking awful, and I don't see how you can deny that. It's actually kind of disgusting how poor the SC2 community is now. It used to be the best community out there, but now it's as worse as anything out there, including LoL, FPS games etc, people are delusional if they still think the SC2 community isn't very cancerous right now. Pretty much every pro-player has been playing the game for many hours a day for years and years, that's why they are pro players, to diminish their accomplishments based on the race they play is disgusting. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On February 17 2014 02:34 DaedricTV wrote: It's actually kind of disgusting how poor the SC2 community is now. It used to be the best community out there, but now it's as worse as anything out there, including LoL, FPS games etc, people are delusional if they still think the SC2 community isn't very cancerous right now. Pretty much every pro-player has been playing the game for many hours a day for years and years, that's why they are pro players, to diminish their accomplishments based on the race they play is disgusting. For all the shit thats thrown around in the sc2 world, nothing will top the crap that I've seen in moba games. Go to the hon forums if you want a trip down the rabbit hole, where the fucking ceo of the studio is openly racist | ||
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Kon-Tiki
United States402 Posts
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NexCa
Germany954 Posts
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DaedricTV
United Kingdom94 Posts
On February 17 2014 02:40 bo1b wrote: For all the shit thats thrown around in the sc2 world, nothing will top the crap that I've seen in moba games. Go to the hon forums if you want a trip down the rabbit hole, where the fucking ceo of the studio is openly racist Exceptions don't disprove the rule, HoN itself isn't even that popular anymore. Point is, the community has gotten trashy and people will have this rose-tinted view that SC community is still what it used to be. It's really not. Why would Blizzard ever want communicate with this community when it's become so bad? | ||
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cocosoft
Sweden1068 Posts
On February 15 2014 21:52 TheDwf wrote: I'm posting this because I see too many people saying Zerg is imba. ZvP = 50/50. Really 50/50. Don't blame maps or whatever… The worse player loses. Protoss that whine really don't have any shame. ZvT = I'll tell you why ZvT is so imbalanced. In terms of game balance, there's no problem, right? But in ladder maps Zerg is 65/35 vs Terran. It's really depressing for Terran. Why? It's because we have 4 maps where Brood lords are very strong. Daybreak, Akilon Wastes, Entombed Valley, Antiga. After that we have Cloud Kingdom which is one of the most favourable map for Zerg vs Terran. If you look at Whirlwind, it's 50/50. Terran have an ok time on this map. This is not about game balance, the maps for ZvT is just too good for Zerg. Before, Hellions and Ghost Snipes that swayed the game in ZvT both got nerfed. Now games where zergs easily masses up the composition without deterrence is here. I really didn't want to talk about balance whine because I'm a pro player, but People are saying that zerg players don't even try hard and win due to the race As a veteran, I feel bad for players that get all the hate and feel angry about it. Sniper and RorO didn't win GSL after they were fooling around for a week. They probably worked very hard. So please stop saying they were "patch zergs". In my eyes, the two Zergs played well and that's why they went through. As programers they really learnt how to build infests and cast fungals well. Also I see a lot of talk about nerfing Fungal but if we nerf that Zerg gets fucked. DK-nim also knows this and this is why he isn't nerfing it. Infested Terran was a good ability for 25 energy and I'm glad it got nerfed. With no balancing, just a change of maps will bring 50/50 in ZvT. I think it was maps why Zergs won last GSLs. Think about it, last season had the same balancing, but before the map changes was terran really that bad against Zerg? Haha hilarious! Thank you. I was thinking about this too. | ||
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Swift118
United Kingdom335 Posts
On February 17 2014 02:34 DaedricTV wrote: It's actually kind of disgusting how poor the SC2 community is now. It used to be the best community out there, but now it's as worse as anything out there, including LoL, FPS games etc, people are delusional if they still think the SC2 community isn't very cancerous right now. Pretty much every pro-player has been playing the game for many hours a day for years and years, that's why they are pro players, to diminish their accomplishments based on the race they play is disgusting. The sc2 community is about the same now as back in 2010. The difference here is that you are obviously a Protoss player and are more butthurt in the current situation. | ||
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knOxStarcraft
Canada422 Posts
People get angry when people win when they're down a base and turtle with some stupid deathball. People didn't like BL/infestor, which could win off low economy turtleing. People don't like when toss walks a deathball out of their 2 or 3 base and win against a 4 base player. People don't like when a zerg on 2 base wins with swarm host viper against a 4 base toss. people don't like when terran gets a mech skyterran deathball that nothing can kill. I see a pattern here, and it has nothing to do with balance; it has everything to do with Blizzard fucking up late game sc2 with deathballs and refusing to fix it. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On February 17 2014 04:33 knOxStarcraft wrote: PvZ = frustrating from both sides because of swarmhost low econ and toss deathball low econ wins. When people get frustrated they balance whine because they're too angry to see that it's happening on both sides. People get angry when people win when they're down a base and turtle with some stupid deathball. People didn't like BL/infestor, which could win off low economy turtleing. People don't like when toss walks a deathball out of their 2 or 3 base and win against a 4 base player. People don't like when a zerg on 2 base wins with swarm host viper against a 4 base toss. people don't like when terran gets a mech skyterran deathball that nothing can kill. I see a pattern here, and it has nothing to do with balance; it has everything to do with Blizzard fucking up late game sc2 with deathballs and refusing to fix it. There is nothing wrong w/ deathball strategies per se. It is rather grand seeing two gigantic armies meeting each other and clashes. The problem is that the battles in SC2 are very anticlimactic. There might be short battles there and there but usually they are simply posturing and when the deciding battles happening, you only get to experience the climax for a brief amount of period. It might display who is the better player of the two but for the majority of the audience, they feel that their time is better well spent seeing multiple teamfights that could potentially turns the tides in a MOBA genre games than what SC2 have to deliver. If Blizzard were to gravitate upon deathball strategies, they better design the game so that the battles can prolong longer than a maximum of 15 seconds. This could either mean that they need to make the map bigger and/or increasing the supply population count. Unfortunately, Blizzard would definitely ignore anything that goes against their current, subpar design philosophy. | ||
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Dwayn
Germany949 Posts
With PvT it's not only the maps. I find his logic weak. Basically he's saying that on the absolute best maps for terrans it's 50/50, so it's just a problem with the maps. That's BS. It doesn't work like that. | ||
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