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On February 11 2014 17:46 Torte de Lini wrote:God that's freakin' cool! I wish I had this as 1920 x 1080
You ain't getting that in 1920x1080, because the aspect ratio does not fit  More like 1920x600
I like most of the changes btw. Especially mama-core vision and WM shield dmg buff. I agree though that the Blink nerf might be too harsh, 50% cooldown nerf is too much imo, it is not the blink itself that makes the blink-all-ins so tough to hold, it's the mothershipcore, its maphack-vision + timewarp PLUS the fact that you don't require a tech building to get it (meaning like robo or stargate for instance, I know that the cybernetics core is required) and that it's not much of an investment, so basically it's a nobrainer for P to get it. (Maybe increasing the cost a bit - escpecially the gas cost - would make it more of a decision for P to get it? I mean, this should be a game of choices and each choice should have its pros and cons. And given the fact that the core is a damn strong defensive - and offensive - see below - unit, I don't see why it shouldn't be more expensive)
Now, I don't want to whine too much, but a few thoughts on the mothership core. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I got it, this unit was introduced to the game so that P become safer against all-ins / so that expand builds (especially in PvZ and PvP) become more viable. I think that is correct? Now, I would be totally OK with that, an easy to get defensive unit which allows you to play macro-focused. Totally fine with me. The fact which is totally breaking my balls is that this unit is not only defensive, but it can be used in a crapton of various all-ins as well, making them VERY strong. Now, from my perspective, designing a unit like that is just plain wrong, especially due to the fact that it is so low in the tech tree and so easy to get.
So, why not try to change sth so that the mama-core becomes a pure defensive unit? For example, change its movement speed? P still could use defensive timewarps and PO and still could use recall by splitting a part of its army and recalling it to the 3rd nexus in a split-push situation, for example. This would especially nerf the mama-core's offensive ability in TvP and weaken the 2base immortal based PvZ all-ins without affecting the mama-core's defensive abilities.
I would love to hear your thoughts on that.
Another suggestion I read a few pages back was reducing stim research time by a few seconds. Thinking back, the research time was mainly increased in order to help P hold the medivac stim / stim only pushes. I think that's about right? Now, P have the mothership core / the maps are much bigger, so why not revert this change? In TvP, P is pretty much untouchable within the first 7-8-9 minutes thanks to the mothership core, so why not making T's life a bit easier and helping them hold the plethora of P all-ins by reducing the stim research time a bit? Or would this affect TvZ too much? I honestly don't think so.
Again, thoughts would be appreciated.
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Nerfing blink and stalkers will just break PvZ.
Right now, Zerg must be defensive, because of a possible gateway pressure.
This will have same effect as Queens buff, Zergs will be again greedy as F**k, and this would mean, we will have even more SHs.
Do you really want this, SH in every game, in every matchup?
IF BLIZZARD IS NERFING P MID GAME, BUFFING Z MID GAME (hydras) they should also nerf SHs.
Otherwise we will have another era of turtling Zergs.
Hydra buff will also make Z stronger agains mech, combined with SH it won't be viable again. GG
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Also
Nerfing blink, will mean instant GG to mutas switches if only P doesn't have phoenixes.
Why Blizzard don't want to buff Terran, PvZ seems to be quite balanced?
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Mothership Core vision radius decreased from 14 to 9
✓ Great.It's not as if this nerf can't be scaled back to some degree if this proves too harsh a change.
Blink cooldown increased from 10 to 15
✓ Personally I always thought this was the more intuitive change from all those blink timing nerfs and talks about nerfs before, considering how much better it allows that 6 range and the decent shield+life of stalkers to scale than without it.
If it's too harsh, they could always try 12 or so anyway.
Ah, just a note, it does take away some micro potential, which isn't good. That's one big drawback to this approach.
Widow Mine splash damage component deals 40 + 40 shield damage
I'm not sure if this is a good way to go about it or not except that I like that they're considering more vs shields bonus damage, but this sounds way to harsh at a glance.
No vote on this right now though because I haven't put a lot of thought into it.
Tempest ground weapon damage increased from 30 to 30+30-to-structures
× Yuck. No.
Hydralisk delay between attacks decreased from .83 to .75
× Yuck. NO! Bad Blizzard, wrong type of change!
This would change them in one the worst ways possible.
Increasing their rate of fire means making micro with them waste even more potential damage.
Please consider lowering the rate of fire and increasing the base damage instead, or something else that doesn't make micro a bad choice. D:<
Plus, corruptors are still in much more need of a overhaul (and buff).
e.g. faster movement and higher damage, maybe slightly lower rate of fire for more whooshing in&out of enemy range to fire and retreat in battle and an improvement to/ability swap for corruption.
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On February 11 2014 18:25 TW wrote:
Nerfing blink and stalkers will just break PvZ.
Right now, Zerg must be defensive, because of a possible gateway pressure.
This will have same effect as Queens buff, Zergs will be again greedy as F**k, and this would mean, we will have even more SHs.
Do you really want this, SH in every game, in every matchup?
IF BLIZZARD IS NERFING P MID GAME, BUFFING Z MID GAME (hydras) they should also nerf SHs.
Otherwise we will have another era of turtling Zergs.
Hydra buff will also make Z stronger agains mech, combined with SH it won't be viable again. GG
I am not sure about that. Since blink stalkers pressure vs zerg is mainly walking up to the zerg and trading while blinking the weakened stalkers back. I don't think stalkers blink a second time because they are usually dead by then. The problem with blinks vs terrans is that stalkers blink into the main (which protoss don't do as much vs zerg because the focus is usually the third), TW gets used, and by the time the bio engages, the stalkers can already blink back down 1 by 1. But we will see if this change will affect PvZ times
Although blink stalkers will be less mobile vs mutas and blinking forward will be a bigger risk.
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scary changes. especially hydra.
if Protoss is surprised by hydras and has no counter - it's already almost over. gateway army just melts against them, and this buff (even such a small one) can make it even harder.
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Was criticizing last testmaps a lot, so:
MSC:
Yayyy. Not much else to say.
Blink:
Hmm, not sure. Maybe a bit too much? Probably time will tell.
WM:
Dunno, i dont see this somewhat effective in later stages (obs). So it basically buffs only marine medivac mine drop early? I like that its better to hold 1 base AI with that, you dont even need tank probably.
If you want give zerg and terran opportunity to harass weaken overcharge vs bio unit and remain it strong vs armored (PvP) imo. Players would play more than one 1base pressure build than HOPEFULLY (not only minemarinemedivac), which is actually good for lower league players, which suck at macro AND its interesting to watch at tournaments - pressure build into exp or allin. I mean 40x better than nexus first into superlategame or GOD that swarm host bullshit...
Tempest:
Change swarmhost! It is ridilulously boring to watch, 1 game last for hour(s) and its obviously not balanced. Weaken locusts somehow, change movespeed of unborowed SH (they should be really slow if you break the line imo!). And i am sure there are more ways u can nerf it more or less. Tempest change is not needed i believe.
Hydras:
Not sure. I mean, i like they are trying to force zergs to whatever is not swarm host comp, but hydras prolly need to stay alive longer? Time will tell i would say....
Overall... better test map then last 2-3 together and mostly because of the changes community (even pros) suggested.
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On February 11 2014 18:55 maXX_CZ wrote:
WM:
Dunno, i dont see this somewhat effective in later stages (obs). So it basically buffs only marine medivac mine drop early?
Nope, it would also (re)make 4M viable or somewhat viable against Templar openings.
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the biggest issue with blink is when the stalkers are used to blink offensively. You cant escape from receiving damage even if you are in full retreat. Nerf blink by disabling the stalker's attack for 3 seconds or so after the cooldown. Also, when is the collosus going to receive a damage nerf?
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On February 11 2014 18:58 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 18:55 maXX_CZ wrote:
WM:
Dunno, i dont see this somewhat effective in later stages (obs). So it basically buffs only marine medivac mine drop early? Nope, it would also (re)make 4M viable or somewhat viable against Templar openings.
No terran ever will rely on widow mines vs a protoss. As a harassment option, yep, but not as a component in your main army. Storm outranges WM, Colossi outrange WM, the additional gas will be taken out of medivac/viking/marauder production etc.
I'm really pissed that Blizzard people seem to be more interested in pulling out the nerf gun instead of addressing the game's real problems (NOT balance-wise, but freakin' gameplay-wise!) i.e. Swarm hosts, Mech turtle, Deathball-ish play.
The most action-packed matchup that this game has is ZvT, bio/mine vs. ling bling muta. Sorry, bros. Even in the 4M times w/ Innovation, his parade push would cause the casters to go mad for minutes and minutes of fighting. And I'm not talking about "Uhhh, they position their deathballs again, uhhh, now so close, uhhh, they back off" (which is 60-70% of your average TvP lategame cast), but about awesome micro and macro in a situation where the fighting basically never stops.
To all those people who actually enjoy seeing Swarm Hosts vs. Tempests (or Reality vs. Soulkey, The Draw) - you are very, very strange.
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On February 11 2014 19:19 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 18:58 TheDwf wrote:On February 11 2014 18:55 maXX_CZ wrote:
WM:
Dunno, i dont see this somewhat effective in later stages (obs). So it basically buffs only marine medivac mine drop early? Nope, it would also (re)make 4M viable or somewhat viable against Templar openings. No terran ever will rely on widow mines vs a protoss. As a harassment option, yep, but not as a component in your main army. Storm outranges WM, Colossi outrange WM, the additional gas will be taken out of medivac/viking/marauder production etc. I'm really pissed that Blizzard people seem to be more interested in pulling out the nerf gun instead of addressing the game's real problems (NOT balance-wise, but freakin' gameplay-wise!) i.e. Swarm hosts, Mech turtle, Deathball-ish play. The most action-packed matchup that this game has is ZvT, bio/mine vs. ling bling muta. Sorry, bros. Even in the 4M times w/ Innovation, his parade push would cause the casters to go mad for minutes and minutes of fighting. And I'm not talking about "Uhhh, they position their deathballs again, uhhh, now so close, uhhh, they back off" (which is 60-70% of your average TvP lategame cast), but about awesome micro and macro in a situation where the fighting basically never stops. To all those people who actually enjoy seeing Swarm Hosts vs. Tempests (or Reality vs. Soulkey, The Draw) - you are very, very strange.
2 Storms for a mine? I'll take that.
Collosi in a Templar opening?
ZvT was getting 'stale' so DK nerfed Mines in a matchup that approached near perfect balance. He is sometimes not a smart man :-(
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4713 Posts
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On February 11 2014 19:19 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 18:58 TheDwf wrote:On February 11 2014 18:55 maXX_CZ wrote:
WM:
Dunno, i dont see this somewhat effective in later stages (obs). So it basically buffs only marine medivac mine drop early? Nope, it would also (re)make 4M viable or somewhat viable against Templar openings. No terran ever will rely on widow mines vs a protoss. As a harassment option, yep, but not as a component in your main army. Storm outranges WM, Colossi outrange WM, the additional gas will be taken out of medivac/viking/marauder production etc.
Why? Splash damage + zone control is what bio desperately needs against mass Zealots. Storm outranging Mines doesn't matter since you can spread them the way you would do vs Zerg; plus it takes 2 Storms to kill a Mine. Colossi or Stalkers outranging Mines doesn't matter since you only play them against Templar openings.
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On February 11 2014 19:24 Destructicon wrote:Ok, stealing this from reddit. This is how the proposed nerfs would look in game. http://imgur.com/a/Wn9rN
that mine hit against immortals is crazy good, a few immortals shield were completely gone
also the vision nerf is a bit too much for my taste.
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They should seriously reconsider the Locust HP/time/range/respawn rate.
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Looking forward to the mine change, if that goes through, playing them in monobattle will be even more hilarious. ^^
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Finally the vision range nerf. Better late than never I guess.
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On February 11 2014 19:24 Destructicon wrote:Ok, stealing this from reddit. This is how the proposed nerfs would look in game. http://imgur.com/a/Wn9rN
It's cool to see that the Tempest change looks stupid on paper, but makes sense to me in the example you have given. The hydra change looks minimal to me and the msc and blink nerf are HUGE.
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lets face it blink stalkers have been too cost effective. blink stalkers > roaches, blink stalkers > hydras, blink stalkers > zerglings, basically anything that isnt an ultralisk or swarmhost.
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On February 11 2014 19:26 ETisME wrote:that mine hit against immortals is crazy good, a few immortals shield were completely gone also the vision nerf is a bit too much for my taste.
I thought the buff to damage vs shields was only for the one target you directly hit, and not the splash as well?
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EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fMN6JIr.png)
