EPTSC2 Balance Changes: Pros' Impressions - Page 19
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On February 03 2014 16:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote: re: Hydra Buff~ While this may not be the correct solution, Zerg does need some form off anti-air buff. As it stands, the only way to deal with mid-lategame mech or mid-lategame skytoss is with mass spores (&viper/swarmhost) causing the turtle games everyone hates to watch. Instead, a smaller hydra buff in addition to a corruptor buff could be feasible (corruptors really are trash units 90% of the time), or reverting one of the two HotS void ray buffs That is for sure, Zerg AA has always been an issue since the beginning of WoL. However, I don't really see what kind of buff you could do to be able to fight a Sky toss/mech army with corruptors or Hydralisk. I mean, some kind of buff of the corruption spell or the giving Hydra + 1 range in ground to air fight or +10 hp could help in the mid game, but I still don't see how you could fight a late game army without the mass SH/viper/sporecrawler. | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
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Lokian
United States699 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On February 03 2014 19:44 Grumbels wrote: Are there many timings that center around ghosts? I've always thought of ghosts as a unit you might want to transition into in the late-game, not a unit that serves as the cornerstone of so many timings the same way, say, the colossus functions. Actually, in WoL before EMP range was nerfed. Ghost timings were very strong (since WoL early/mid game PvT revolved around sentries and ramp blocking. Although I am not sure whether the new ghosts will be enough to shift the match up, we need to see how the timings work out. I think we need to stop looking at just end game compositions in isolation. Like in WoL, Mvp showed that turtle mass ravens was almost unbreakable (Metropolis). However, very few maps allows the terran to do this (split map while defending 2 tight chokes. If the ghost buffs forces the protoss to build a bigger army before taking their third or making HT openings more risky, that will translate into big differences in the late game. It is ok for one race's end game comp to be 'better', as long as getting to that comp has risks and the other races has large enough timing windows. One of the issues with TvP now is that the early game options of the protoss make terrans have to play defensive that their mid game timing window is so small and relies on the protoss to make a significant mistake to do damage. TvT is actually a good example. mech > bio/biotank when max but there are a lot of things the bio player can do throughout the mid/late game. mass air > mech but again, transition to air is very risky since you can get caught mid transition. Also, this is why BL/infestors were such a problem only after the Queen buff. It allowed zergs to get to infestors relatively easily. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3445 Posts
Are there many timings that center around ghosts? I've always thought of ghosts as a unit you might want to transition into in the late-game, not a unit that serves as the cornerstone of so many timings the same way, say, the colossus functions. The Ghost Scv Allin was super strong. There's also been some in the past, but not so prevalent, when Protoss can open both High Templars and Colossus. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On February 03 2014 17:05 vthree wrote: Terrans learn to whine from the best, Protoss players. Look at the sad zealot fan club, it conditioned the Protoss players to think Protoss were underpowered. Actually protoss was and is underpowered. Nothing change since the release of HOTS. Game was stale for almost a year. But all of a sudden protoss became OP. Logics. | ||
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dargul
Russian Federation125 Posts
or may be add 1 ghost with invis and energy for 1 emp, so that hopefully you can get close to msc and emp it before your allin push. or try to have 1 ghost drop near msc and emp then push. 8 - ) | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On February 03 2014 20:21 insitelol wrote: Actually protoss was and is underpowered. Nothing change since the release of HOTS. Game was stale for almost a year. But all of a sudden protoss became OP. Logics. FYI, your name is spelled with a `c' not `s'. | ||
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kandiru
United Kingdom18 Posts
Void rays could kite back away after the corruption and come back Prismatic Alignment activated after the corruption expired, etc. You could even use Corruption on stalkers to prevent blink if you were supporting roaches with corrupters. Would be a more interesting change than halving the gas cost of hydralisks! | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On February 03 2014 20:27 Ghanburighan wrote: FYI, your name is spelled with a `c' not `s'. wat. i would not speak about spelling names if i got yours. | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
On February 03 2014 20:33 kandiru wrote: Rather than buff the hydralisk, why not make Corrupters not so rubbish against void rays? Make corruption have a (very)small AoE so its more easily targeted on clumped up void rays, and make it cancel/block the use of abilities for the duration. That way you can prevent vikings from landing, and remove void ray prismatic alignment, and cancel/prevent Yamato Cannon if you get close enough. Void rays could kite back away after the corruption and come back Prismatic Alignment activated after the corruption expired, etc. You could even use Corruption on stalkers to prevent blink if you were supporting roaches with corrupters. Would be a more interesting change than halving the gas cost of hydralisks! We don't need more micro limiting abilities in this game. I'm also not sure the aoe will accomplish much, voids tend to not clump as much because of how slow they are, so the aoe would need to be quite substantial. Finally, the real problem with corrupter is that they totally and utterly melt to void rays, due to the rays doing bonus vs armored, add storms and/or archons and the problem is even worst. | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
On February 02 2014 22:37 Maegi wrote: Really cool idea, I think MMA is spot on about the msc vision being the issue yep | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
On February 03 2014 20:41 Destructicon wrote: We don't need more micro limiting abilities in this game. I'm also not sure the aoe will accomplish much, voids tend to not clump as much because of how slow they are, so the aoe would need to be quite substantial. Finally, the real problem with corrupter is that they totally and utterly melt to void rays, due to the rays doing bonus vs armored, add storms and/or archons and the problem is even worst. There are two kinds of balance whine. One: "I lose cause PROTOSS OP". Two: "MAKE MY RACE OP" We have number two here  . On a more serious note: what about buffing ghosts via reducing mineral costs? And, whatthefuck hydras? I just hope this is a "Let's do it to rage the Community" move, and not a serious plan. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On February 03 2014 20:21 insitelol wrote: Actually protoss was and is underpowered. Nothing change since the release of HOTS. Game was stale for almost a year. But all of a sudden protoss became OP. Logics. Protoss is underpowered..? You''re like IdrA and Avilo in their whine prime. | ||
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ImAdonis
15 Posts
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On February 03 2014 20:47 boxerfred wrote: There are two kinds of balance whine. One: "I lose cause PROTOSS OP". Two: "MAKE MY RACE OP" We have number two here . On a more serious note: what about buffing ghosts via reducing mineral costs? And, whatthefuck hydras? I just hope this is a "Let's do it to rage the Community" move, and not a serious plan. So you think that void ray vs corruptor is an even fair fight? I thought that quite reasonable solution to giving zerg some chance to fight air toss without super turtle. | ||
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algue
France1436 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On February 02 2014 22:53 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Nice to hear from the pros as always. Though, the feedback is a bit disappointing. It's just a higher-tier of players echoing pretty much everything people are saying in the balance thread with little added insight this time around. MSC: Not enough Ghost: Doesn't get to the core problem of mech. Encourages cheese/timings Tempest: Unsure/sucks Hydralisk: The stupidest change of them all by a fair margin. Even the zergs think it's stupid. Actually as a platinum zerg player a buff like this would bring me back to the game. End of WoL was stupid and boring as a Zerg player and HotS didn't fix any of the stuff for Zerg except a bit of a more useful Ultra. Swarmhost I hate and I will not be using them and any change that nerfs them and makes other units like hydra more useful will make me want to play again. | ||
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drkcid
Spain196 Posts
BTW It´s very interesting to read Pros analisis, sadly some of them are a bit too favoring race. | ||
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