EPTI thought 10hp and +1 armor is a huge buff too . . .
SC2 Balance Changes: Pros' Impressions - Page 17
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XiaoJoyce-
China2908 Posts
I thought 10hp and +1 armor is a huge buff too . . . | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On February 03 2014 01:57 -HuShang- wrote: It's pretty disgusting when after 80% of my ladder wins vs terran the terran will tell me how !@#$ing bull!@#$ and op my race is and how it takes no skill. This is mostly because of mob balance mentality. Players like avilo who whine constantly are just conditioning you to think that he's right. The more terrans that whine about balance the more other terran players start to think that the game is imbalanced. Maybe protoss is slightly overpowered atm. I certainly think oracle/blink all in nerf would be a good idea but should I have to hear how op and how skill less I am after every game? Certainly not. I just insta /block every terran i meet nowadays. Problem solved. | ||
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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BeastofManjura
United States30 Posts
On February 03 2014 14:56 XiaoJoyce- wrote: The progamer said, 10 hp or +1 armor to hydralisk is small buff, compared to the gas. I thought 10hp and +1 armor is a huge buff too . . . Not really when you compare that 1 hydralisk is basically the same thing as 2 marines. DPS = same, hp =same, biological and light +2 supply. I would actually like to see a +1 armor upgrade to make them better vs marines, zealots, and zerglings would be interesting to see. But even as it stands I dont think the 100/25 would open anything up in ZvT as hydras are a poor unit to build vs any basic terran comp (mech/mmm). ZvP would have some protoss be in trouble. They would need to go templar every game I feel becasue then when the tech switch to muta comes they need to morph to archon to deal and I dont know that protoss will be able to gass up enough which makes a war of attrition that Z will eventually win. Either way as it stands 100/50 hydras need something big. . | ||
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MattD
United Kingdom83 Posts
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Balosaar
United States35 Posts
On February 03 2014 11:39 Liquid`Snute wrote: Probably a bit late to the party with this post but whatever. Hydralisks will have 4:1 mineral to gas ratio up from 2:1 ratio if this change goes through. It will be the only Zerg technology unit to be this mineral heavy. It seems like the designers are trying to increase the amount of tech units in the earlier parts of the mid-game, AND wanting to increase zerg's abililty to break 3rd bases early on, especially vs. Stargate play. The overall DPS and army HP increase can turn out to be too much. However, while Hydralisks are cheaper now, they still cost minerals and you can only mine so much before having to commit to a timing. It would be helpful for this thread if anyone did a calculation or practical comparison to check how many more minerals and hydras the gas reduction actually gives you as a result of the change. Practical concerns: - The first hydra wave, earlier forcefield/overcharge trigger, easier hydra reinforcement - The transition into muta with extra free mutas - The increased amount of hydras for 3rd breaker strategies before vipers in general (byebye voidray chargelot archon or even pre-lance colossi? o.o) - Roach Hydra Viper early mid-game timings with too many hydralisks, vipers or even infestors in the mix - Zergs taking faster 4th vs Phoenix into colossus openings, easier access to Hydralisk defending drones followed up with stronger defenses vs. 2 1/2-base and 3-base timings? - Too easy to defend sentry-zealot-msc pressure into immortal all-ins? Hydralisk pressure into multi-expand Spire play might become super overpowered and is probably the biggest possible concern about this patch. The Hydra change would be a massive early timing attack buff and early mid-game army value buff, but I would like to see the added mineral effect in action, especially applied to the 6gas mutaswitch into 8/10gas muta reinforcement as well as the offensive early hydra rush. I really like this post. I said in an earlier post that if this patch were to go through, if you go on the same amount of geysers, you will have more hydralisks, but if you go for a muta switch you will be more limited by your minerals than your gas. I think you could agree that stargate openers are one of the most popular from protoss today, and then the meta would shift away from this to be able to defend hydra pushes, which I dont know is a bad thing. Protoss can already semi easily scout with halucinations and mothership core poking, ( havent seen mothership core flying in to timewarp a mineral field in a long time). | ||
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SeventhPride
712 Posts
On February 03 2014 14:56 XiaoJoyce- wrote: The progamer said, 10 hp or +1 armor to hydralisk is small buff, compared to the gas. I thought 10hp and +1 armor is a huge buff too . . . Well most of us can agree 25 gas is just plain stupid unless there is other adjustments, there are also many who agree hydras NEEDS a buff. Either hydras or zergs anti-air, which I assume is what blizz is trying to fix since the only time zergs use hydras is to fuck with stargate or go for a hydra/ling bust. Rarely roach/hydra against terran | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On February 03 2014 15:26 Balosaar wrote: I really like this post. I said in an earlier post that if this patch were to go through, if you go on the same amount of geysers, you will have more hydralisks, but if you go for a muta switch you will be more limited by your minerals than your gas. I think you could agree that stargate openers are one of the most popular from protoss today, and then the meta would shift away from this to be able to defend hydra pushes, which I dont know is a bad thing. Protoss can already semi easily scout with halucinations and mothership core poking, ( havent seen mothership core flying in to timewarp a mineral field in a long time). The difficulty is that if you're committing heavily to robo units to defend hydralisks, and take a later third because you need to hold hydra timings (and you need more tech for that), then you probably won't have any pheonix out when the muta switch starts. Even if you scout the spire, you won't have much time to get out your stargates and get phoenix out before you're hit with the mutalisks, and you probably won't have many stalkers because you needed robo units + sentries + stargates etc., and that's quite gas heavy overall. Stargate openers are popular because they put on some harass and pressure, they allow you to take a third, and they also set you up to defend a muta switch later. If hydras are much cheaper on gas, it's likely stargate openers will disappear due to having to commit to robo earlier to hold, meaning muta switches will be nastier even without the extra gas available for more. It just seems like a clusterfuck, when it's already fairly difficult to defend muta switches. | ||
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Gen.Rolly
United States200 Posts
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Balosaar
United States35 Posts
On February 03 2014 15:45 SeventhPride wrote: Well most of us can agree 25 gas is just plain stupid unless there is other adjustments, there are also many who agree hydras NEEDS a buff. Either hydras or zergs anti-air, which I assume is what blizz is trying to fix since the only time zergs use hydras is to fuck with stargate or go for a hydra/ling bust. Rarely roach/hydra against terran I am one of those "plain stupid people". Like, I don't think any of you have played the balance map at all or more than once or twice. I say this in the way that we are all just theory crafting and that we don't actually 100% know how it would work out, that is why blizzard is at least discussing it. You may disagree and say that the saving of gas for tech switching like mutalisks is way to powerful and that you will have faster more danger hydralisk pushes. I believe that you have the potential to have more mutalisks with a tech switch due to the saving of gas. I believe that you will be more limited by the minerals than the gas at this point. I am just theory crafting but I think when you go to make a muta transition and you spend all you can to make mutas, you will be floating some gas, and not really get that many extra mutalisks. You might say that it is a 50% reduction, but I say that is only 25 gas. Every 4 hydralisks you will save 1 mutalisk worth of gas. If you make 20 hydras your only going to save 5 mutalisks worth of gas. Like I guarantee you will float gas, but I don't think you will have enough minerals to support this "bigger" of a switch. | ||
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huller20
United States112 Posts
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
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SeventhPride
712 Posts
On February 03 2014 16:03 Fjodorov wrote: Instead of the proposed hydra change they should do something about the Hydras double-upgrade situation. +1 For goodness sake stop splitting our damn upgrades into 2. Why the hell did they even do that for all our units geez. | ||
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Scarlett`
Korea (South)2440 Posts
While this may not be the correct solution, Zerg does need some form off anti-air buff. As it stands, the only way to deal with mid-lategame mech or mid-lategame skytoss is with mass spores (&viper/swarmhost) causing the turtle games everyone hates to watch. Instead, a smaller hydra buff in addition to a corruptor buff could be feasible (corruptors really are trash units 90% of the time), or reverting one of the two HotS void ray buffs | ||
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Reasonable
Ukraine1432 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On February 03 2014 14:57 insitelol wrote: I just insta /block every terran i meet nowadays. Problem solved. Terrans learn to whine from the best, Protoss players. Look at the sad zealot fan club, it conditioned the Protoss players to think Protoss were underpowered. | ||
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Talack
Canada2742 Posts
On February 03 2014 14:56 XiaoJoyce- wrote: The progamer said, 10 hp or +1 armor to hydralisk is small buff, compared to the gas. I thought 10hp and +1 armor is a huge buff too . . . +1 armor is an insanely high survivability buff. With 80 hp it takes a marine 14 shots to kill a hydralisk, with +1 armor it now takes 16 which is a 13% increase in survivability for that unit and a 17% reduction in damage from the marine. It doesn't seem like much but now over the course of like say 20 hydras @ 80 hp each that's an increase of 208 effective HP in that army. It's a pretty significant buff even though it seems so small. | ||
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Scarlett`
Korea (South)2440 Posts
On February 03 2014 17:34 Talack wrote: +1 armor is an insanely high survivability buff. With 80 hp it takes a marine 14 shots to kill a hydralisk, with +1 armor it now takes 16 which is a 13% increase in survivability for that unit and a 17% reduction in damage from the marine. It doesn't seem like much but now over the course of like say 20 hydras @ 80 hp each that's an increase of 208 effective HP in that army. It's a pretty significant buff even though it seems so small. That actually sounds excellent  Marine vs Hydralisk will be downgraded from a Hydralisk extermination to only(!!) a Hydralisk massacre | ||
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Frex
Finland888 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
Hydralisks have two expensive upgrades so knowing blizzard they'll probably remove one of them. It would still be a buff to hydras though. | ||
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