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On January 29 2014 03:01 Noobity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:38 shinobi112 wrote:On January 28 2014 04:35 Qwyn wrote:
This is really, really stupid. Thanks for giving all the other competitors in this thing no reward for their efforts whatsoever...
Honestly, what the fuck? This seems like more of the thing where a lot of talent would STAY AWAY just because there's no fucking point if they're just going to lose to a Korean... Really, you believe any foreigner just says well I am going to lose a Korean, I might as well not go… If you are going to lose to a korean mentality and there are 10 koreans you are not going to participate anyways because you will be knocked out first round before any money anyways… They all are INVITED to this tournament after getting other prize money earlier in the year… THIS is like a BONUS tournament… with a BONUS prize of 100,000 so… All these players already got paid for their efforts. I believe there are plenty of pretty good foreign pros that are going to pass on this invite or not. If I were scarlett and had to choose between traveling to IEM or staying home and practicing for an upcoming premiere league match, for instance, I'd be damned sure to practice for premiere league over a small chance for $100k, and more likely $0. There's not a single pro gamer, Korean or otherwise, that has a great chance at winning such a large event. I don't tend to watch IEMs, I don't enjoy them as much as the other tournaments. A $100k prize to first place is not going to increase my likelihood of watching it. I respect the idea behind it and the goal, but I can't help but feel this is going to be a negative all things considered. I think it's just the wrong way to go about it. But good luck, IEM. I hope I'm wrong 
Practice? Playing in a live high pressure tournament setting against the worlds best is better than any practice one can get sitting at their home computer laddering or even in-team custom games.
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On January 29 2014 03:04 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 03:01 Noobity wrote:On January 28 2014 04:38 shinobi112 wrote:On January 28 2014 04:35 Qwyn wrote:
This is really, really stupid. Thanks for giving all the other competitors in this thing no reward for their efforts whatsoever...
Honestly, what the fuck? This seems like more of the thing where a lot of talent would STAY AWAY just because there's no fucking point if they're just going to lose to a Korean... Really, you believe any foreigner just says well I am going to lose a Korean, I might as well not go… If you are going to lose to a korean mentality and there are 10 koreans you are not going to participate anyways because you will be knocked out first round before any money anyways… They all are INVITED to this tournament after getting other prize money earlier in the year… THIS is like a BONUS tournament… with a BONUS prize of 100,000 so… All these players already got paid for their efforts. I believe there are plenty of pretty good foreign pros that are going to pass on this invite or not. If I were scarlett and had to choose between traveling to IEM or staying home and practicing for an upcoming premiere league match, for instance, I'd be damned sure to practice for premiere league over a small chance for $100k, and more likely $0. There's not a single pro gamer, Korean or otherwise, that has a great chance at winning such a large event. I don't tend to watch IEMs, I don't enjoy them as much as the other tournaments. A $100k prize to first place is not going to increase my likelihood of watching it. I respect the idea behind it and the goal, but I can't help but feel this is going to be a negative all things considered. I think it's just the wrong way to go about it. But good luck, IEM. I hope I'm wrong Practice? Playing in a live high pressure tournament setting against the worlds best is better than any practice one can get sitting at their home computer laddering or even in-team custom games.
I second that. The best practice for tournaments is actually playing in tournament.
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On January 29 2014 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
This is awful. Entertaining for the fans but absolutely abysmal for the players.
It's wonderful to see tournaments treating their lifeblood (the players) like caged animals. Pay 1 person a ton of money and let the other 99% starve, including 3 out of 4 semi-finalists.
If this idea (Winner Take All) was actually the norm for tournaments, rather than a fairer distribution of the prize money being spread to more players, players would be retiring even faster than they are now.
IEM is just hyping their tournament by doing something different, but their "different" is hurtful.
It doens't harm the players, they have the trip and everything paid. For 15 of them it'll be 4 days where they don't lose money and have a chance at winning 100'000$. They wouldn't make more money if they stayed at home.
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On January 29 2014 03:24 Lazzi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 03:04 Wingblade wrote:On January 29 2014 03:01 Noobity wrote:On January 28 2014 04:38 shinobi112 wrote:On January 28 2014 04:35 Qwyn wrote:
This is really, really stupid. Thanks for giving all the other competitors in this thing no reward for their efforts whatsoever...
Honestly, what the fuck? This seems like more of the thing where a lot of talent would STAY AWAY just because there's no fucking point if they're just going to lose to a Korean... Really, you believe any foreigner just says well I am going to lose a Korean, I might as well not go… If you are going to lose to a korean mentality and there are 10 koreans you are not going to participate anyways because you will be knocked out first round before any money anyways… They all are INVITED to this tournament after getting other prize money earlier in the year… THIS is like a BONUS tournament… with a BONUS prize of 100,000 so… All these players already got paid for their efforts. I believe there are plenty of pretty good foreign pros that are going to pass on this invite or not. If I were scarlett and had to choose between traveling to IEM or staying home and practicing for an upcoming premiere league match, for instance, I'd be damned sure to practice for premiere league over a small chance for $100k, and more likely $0. There's not a single pro gamer, Korean or otherwise, that has a great chance at winning such a large event. I don't tend to watch IEMs, I don't enjoy them as much as the other tournaments. A $100k prize to first place is not going to increase my likelihood of watching it. I respect the idea behind it and the goal, but I can't help but feel this is going to be a negative all things considered. I think it's just the wrong way to go about it. But good luck, IEM. I hope I'm wrong Practice? Playing in a live high pressure tournament setting against the worlds best is better than any practice one can get sitting at their home computer laddering or even in-team custom games. I second that. The best practice for tournaments is actually playing in tournament.
It's single-elim. Some players will only play one BO5.
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On January 28 2014 12:02 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 11:59 TheSir wrote:
its a nice stunt and change but keep it at just one time. they tried this in poker as well and after a few times most people didnt even bother anymore and the attention will go away.
you have to put in a lot of work and time (practice, travel etc) and ending up with nothing is only something the top players can afford. so the richer will get richer and its not something SC2 really needs right now imo.
but cool idea to do it once. Alot of professional athletes, financially successful or not, do charity tours or charity events where they still try to compete to their best to show the audience good games because they realize it is also a part of self-promotion and promoting a cause or spirit of sportsmanship. Are you saying that SC2 professionals are exempt from competing at their hardest because they might not make money?
In America, there is not a single serious competition that is performed by professional athletes that net them $0 gain for appearing. They also, in most sports, can't actually compete in their respective sport outside of sanctioned games due to insurance reasons. In fact, they use stand in athletes in commercials when those athletes are promoting something due to the risk of damage to a team's multi million dollar investment.
Maybe it's different in the rest of the world, but professional athletes in the USA definitely do not do any of what you're saying professional athletes do.
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On January 29 2014 03:24 Lazzi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 03:04 Wingblade wrote:On January 29 2014 03:01 Noobity wrote:On January 28 2014 04:38 shinobi112 wrote:On January 28 2014 04:35 Qwyn wrote:
This is really, really stupid. Thanks for giving all the other competitors in this thing no reward for their efforts whatsoever...
Honestly, what the fuck? This seems like more of the thing where a lot of talent would STAY AWAY just because there's no fucking point if they're just going to lose to a Korean... Really, you believe any foreigner just says well I am going to lose a Korean, I might as well not go… If you are going to lose to a korean mentality and there are 10 koreans you are not going to participate anyways because you will be knocked out first round before any money anyways… They all are INVITED to this tournament after getting other prize money earlier in the year… THIS is like a BONUS tournament… with a BONUS prize of 100,000 so… All these players already got paid for their efforts. I believe there are plenty of pretty good foreign pros that are going to pass on this invite or not. If I were scarlett and had to choose between traveling to IEM or staying home and practicing for an upcoming premiere league match, for instance, I'd be damned sure to practice for premiere league over a small chance for $100k, and more likely $0. There's not a single pro gamer, Korean or otherwise, that has a great chance at winning such a large event. I don't tend to watch IEMs, I don't enjoy them as much as the other tournaments. A $100k prize to first place is not going to increase my likelihood of watching it. I respect the idea behind it and the goal, but I can't help but feel this is going to be a negative all things considered. I think it's just the wrong way to go about it. But good luck, IEM. I hope I'm wrong Practice? Playing in a live high pressure tournament setting against the worlds best is better than any practice one can get sitting at their home computer laddering or even in-team custom games. I second that. The best practice for tournaments is actually playing in tournament.
Besides, the way I understood IEM pays the travel expenses, so if you go there as a player with not too much expectation you could consider this as a free trip 
On a more serious note, there are pros and cons about the winner takes it all thing but I think it did its purpose by drawing so much attention.
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On January 29 2014 03:29 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 03:24 Lazzi wrote:On January 29 2014 03:04 Wingblade wrote:On January 29 2014 03:01 Noobity wrote:On January 28 2014 04:38 shinobi112 wrote:On January 28 2014 04:35 Qwyn wrote:
This is really, really stupid. Thanks for giving all the other competitors in this thing no reward for their efforts whatsoever...
Honestly, what the fuck? This seems like more of the thing where a lot of talent would STAY AWAY just because there's no fucking point if they're just going to lose to a Korean... Really, you believe any foreigner just says well I am going to lose a Korean, I might as well not go… If you are going to lose to a korean mentality and there are 10 koreans you are not going to participate anyways because you will be knocked out first round before any money anyways… They all are INVITED to this tournament after getting other prize money earlier in the year… THIS is like a BONUS tournament… with a BONUS prize of 100,000 so… All these players already got paid for their efforts. I believe there are plenty of pretty good foreign pros that are going to pass on this invite or not. If I were scarlett and had to choose between traveling to IEM or staying home and practicing for an upcoming premiere league match, for instance, I'd be damned sure to practice for premiere league over a small chance for $100k, and more likely $0. There's not a single pro gamer, Korean or otherwise, that has a great chance at winning such a large event. I don't tend to watch IEMs, I don't enjoy them as much as the other tournaments. A $100k prize to first place is not going to increase my likelihood of watching it. I respect the idea behind it and the goal, but I can't help but feel this is going to be a negative all things considered. I think it's just the wrong way to go about it. But good luck, IEM. I hope I'm wrong Practice? Playing in a live high pressure tournament setting against the worlds best is better than any practice one can get sitting at their home computer laddering or even in-team custom games. I second that. The best practice for tournaments is actually playing in tournament. It's single-elim. Some players will only play one BO5.
Against an other top player. I can tell from my personal experience that practice is nothing like competition. Even one bo5 in a stage setting is I think better practice than a few days at home. Furthermore they'll be able to play even when they will be out, IEM has always had computer for almost all players (if not every single one, especially when there are only 16 of them).
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On January 29 2014 03:24 Lazzi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 03:04 Wingblade wrote:On January 29 2014 03:01 Noobity wrote:On January 28 2014 04:38 shinobi112 wrote:On January 28 2014 04:35 Qwyn wrote:
This is really, really stupid. Thanks for giving all the other competitors in this thing no reward for their efforts whatsoever...
Honestly, what the fuck? This seems like more of the thing where a lot of talent would STAY AWAY just because there's no fucking point if they're just going to lose to a Korean... Really, you believe any foreigner just says well I am going to lose a Korean, I might as well not go… If you are going to lose to a korean mentality and there are 10 koreans you are not going to participate anyways because you will be knocked out first round before any money anyways… They all are INVITED to this tournament after getting other prize money earlier in the year… THIS is like a BONUS tournament… with a BONUS prize of 100,000 so… All these players already got paid for their efforts. I believe there are plenty of pretty good foreign pros that are going to pass on this invite or not. If I were scarlett and had to choose between traveling to IEM or staying home and practicing for an upcoming premiere league match, for instance, I'd be damned sure to practice for premiere league over a small chance for $100k, and more likely $0. There's not a single pro gamer, Korean or otherwise, that has a great chance at winning such a large event. I don't tend to watch IEMs, I don't enjoy them as much as the other tournaments. A $100k prize to first place is not going to increase my likelihood of watching it. I respect the idea behind it and the goal, but I can't help but feel this is going to be a negative all things considered. I think it's just the wrong way to go about it. But good luck, IEM. I hope I'm wrong Practice? Playing in a live high pressure tournament setting against the worlds best is better than any practice one can get sitting at their home computer laddering or even in-team custom games. I second that. The best practice for tournaments is actually playing in tournament.
Oh god you guys have obviously never ever competed in anything. No the best practice is sitting at home practicing. It's 10+ hours in a comfortable environment with no pressure and the ability to simply practice whatever build you want vs being in a high pressure situation, having to wait between series and having to play mindgames build order wise. A lot of pros have said in the past that their play has suffered due to them not being able to practice decently while traveling all the time.
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And now imagine the final match of the finals being decided by a 6 pool. The world will burn!
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On January 29 2014 03:39 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 03:24 Lazzi wrote:On January 29 2014 03:04 Wingblade wrote:On January 29 2014 03:01 Noobity wrote:On January 28 2014 04:38 shinobi112 wrote:On January 28 2014 04:35 Qwyn wrote:
This is really, really stupid. Thanks for giving all the other competitors in this thing no reward for their efforts whatsoever...
Honestly, what the fuck? This seems like more of the thing where a lot of talent would STAY AWAY just because there's no fucking point if they're just going to lose to a Korean... Really, you believe any foreigner just says well I am going to lose a Korean, I might as well not go… If you are going to lose to a korean mentality and there are 10 koreans you are not going to participate anyways because you will be knocked out first round before any money anyways… They all are INVITED to this tournament after getting other prize money earlier in the year… THIS is like a BONUS tournament… with a BONUS prize of 100,000 so… All these players already got paid for their efforts. I believe there are plenty of pretty good foreign pros that are going to pass on this invite or not. If I were scarlett and had to choose between traveling to IEM or staying home and practicing for an upcoming premiere league match, for instance, I'd be damned sure to practice for premiere league over a small chance for $100k, and more likely $0. There's not a single pro gamer, Korean or otherwise, that has a great chance at winning such a large event. I don't tend to watch IEMs, I don't enjoy them as much as the other tournaments. A $100k prize to first place is not going to increase my likelihood of watching it. I respect the idea behind it and the goal, but I can't help but feel this is going to be a negative all things considered. I think it's just the wrong way to go about it. But good luck, IEM. I hope I'm wrong Practice? Playing in a live high pressure tournament setting against the worlds best is better than any practice one can get sitting at their home computer laddering or even in-team custom games. I second that. The best practice for tournaments is actually playing in tournament. Oh god you guys have obviously never ever competed in anything. No the best practice is sitting at home practicing. It's 10+ hours in a comfortable environment with no pressure and the ability to simply practice whatever build you want vs being in a high pressure situation, having to wait between series and having to play mindgames build order wise. A lot of pros have said in the past that their play has suffered due to them not being able to practice decently while traveling all the time.
Yes, it seems to me that these people confuse practice with getting experience
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On January 29 2014 03:37 Lazzi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 03:29 ZAiNs wrote:On January 29 2014 03:24 Lazzi wrote:On January 29 2014 03:04 Wingblade wrote:On January 29 2014 03:01 Noobity wrote:On January 28 2014 04:38 shinobi112 wrote:On January 28 2014 04:35 Qwyn wrote:
This is really, really stupid. Thanks for giving all the other competitors in this thing no reward for their efforts whatsoever...
Honestly, what the fuck? This seems like more of the thing where a lot of talent would STAY AWAY just because there's no fucking point if they're just going to lose to a Korean... Really, you believe any foreigner just says well I am going to lose a Korean, I might as well not go… If you are going to lose to a korean mentality and there are 10 koreans you are not going to participate anyways because you will be knocked out first round before any money anyways… They all are INVITED to this tournament after getting other prize money earlier in the year… THIS is like a BONUS tournament… with a BONUS prize of 100,000 so… All these players already got paid for their efforts. I believe there are plenty of pretty good foreign pros that are going to pass on this invite or not. If I were scarlett and had to choose between traveling to IEM or staying home and practicing for an upcoming premiere league match, for instance, I'd be damned sure to practice for premiere league over a small chance for $100k, and more likely $0. There's not a single pro gamer, Korean or otherwise, that has a great chance at winning such a large event. I don't tend to watch IEMs, I don't enjoy them as much as the other tournaments. A $100k prize to first place is not going to increase my likelihood of watching it. I respect the idea behind it and the goal, but I can't help but feel this is going to be a negative all things considered. I think it's just the wrong way to go about it. But good luck, IEM. I hope I'm wrong Practice? Playing in a live high pressure tournament setting against the worlds best is better than any practice one can get sitting at their home computer laddering or even in-team custom games. I second that. The best practice for tournaments is actually playing in tournament. It's single-elim. Some players will only play one BO5. Against an other top player. I can tell from my personal experience that practice is nothing like competition. Even one bo5 in a stage setting is I think better practice than a few days at home. Furthermore they'll be able to play even when they will be out, IEM has always had computer for almost all players (if not every single one, especially when there are only 16 of them).
I think you overestimate how much Socke, for example, would gain from getting 3-0d by herO.
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On January 29 2014 03:37 Lazzi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 03:29 ZAiNs wrote:On January 29 2014 03:24 Lazzi wrote:On January 29 2014 03:04 Wingblade wrote:On January 29 2014 03:01 Noobity wrote:On January 28 2014 04:38 shinobi112 wrote:On January 28 2014 04:35 Qwyn wrote:
This is really, really stupid. Thanks for giving all the other competitors in this thing no reward for their efforts whatsoever...
Honestly, what the fuck? This seems like more of the thing where a lot of talent would STAY AWAY just because there's no fucking point if they're just going to lose to a Korean... Really, you believe any foreigner just says well I am going to lose a Korean, I might as well not go… If you are going to lose to a korean mentality and there are 10 koreans you are not going to participate anyways because you will be knocked out first round before any money anyways… They all are INVITED to this tournament after getting other prize money earlier in the year… THIS is like a BONUS tournament… with a BONUS prize of 100,000 so… All these players already got paid for their efforts. I believe there are plenty of pretty good foreign pros that are going to pass on this invite or not. If I were scarlett and had to choose between traveling to IEM or staying home and practicing for an upcoming premiere league match, for instance, I'd be damned sure to practice for premiere league over a small chance for $100k, and more likely $0. There's not a single pro gamer, Korean or otherwise, that has a great chance at winning such a large event. I don't tend to watch IEMs, I don't enjoy them as much as the other tournaments. A $100k prize to first place is not going to increase my likelihood of watching it. I respect the idea behind it and the goal, but I can't help but feel this is going to be a negative all things considered. I think it's just the wrong way to go about it. But good luck, IEM. I hope I'm wrong Practice? Playing in a live high pressure tournament setting against the worlds best is better than any practice one can get sitting at their home computer laddering or even in-team custom games. I second that. The best practice for tournaments is actually playing in tournament. It's single-elim. Some players will only play one BO5. Against an other top player. I can tell from my personal experience that practice is nothing like competition. Even one bo5 in a stage setting is I think better practice than a few days at home. Furthermore they'll be able to play even when they will be out, IEM has always had computer for almost all players (if not every single one, especially when there are only 16 of them).
I can't agree with this. Especially for the foreigners who have chances to go far, most of them have plenty of stage experience to know how it is, and in the case of Scarlett for instance, her team is filled with some of the best in the world. I'd be interested to see which Foreigners with even a snowball's chance in hell to win this would be showing. Personally, as I said, I'd take the practice at home. Until a pro comes in to tell me I'm wrong then I kinda have to believe that I just have the "err on the side of caution" mentality.
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On January 29 2014 02:46 Markwerf wrote:
This is awesome. I couldn't care less about progamer income, supporting the community or whatever. It's a game.. people will play it if they like it and they will not if they think it sucks, I only hate the pro's that see it as a job and don't care much else anyway.
This sort of prize model gives great tension and excitement, sure it's harder for a broad base of progamers to support their lifestyle with tournaments like this but I don't care about such things. That only the top get's paid well is part of any pro sport, for consistent income they can have sponsorships or contracts or just do something else besides playing the game..Tournaments have no responsibility whatsoever for supporting a proscene, they just want to make an exciting product. A 100k finals certainly helps with that and with WCS being the overall support system already I can understand this decision. Single elimination does blow a little bit but more action in less time is also understandable
You seem to overlook the fact that the proplayers are the ones creating the product. They play the games and create the entertainment. The tournament organizer provides a scen and broadcasts it. Sure you can add value and entertainment by doing stuff better or worse between games and also increase quality by good casters etc, but in the end its the players who provide the product which we all tune in for.
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What a terrible, terrible feeling this is going to be for all players but one.
Awful.
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1st: 75k
2nd: 20k
3rd/4th 2,5k
2nd place guy is getting the most awful experience/feeling from all but 1st.
How do you think if a player was never in top8 in any tournament before and now here 2nd?
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I have never watched an IEM tournament before, but you better believe I am going to watch the HELL out of this one.
$100k winner-take-all? Yes please! Sounds epic to me. I want to see MC cheese the ever-living-crap out of people repeatedly in a bid to win the whole thing. I want to see scrappy, crazy, seriously non-standard StarCraft here.
I also think it is really valuable for other tournaments/tournament organizers to see the community reaction to this. Thinking about taking a risk? Thinking about changing it up? Get ready for some serious hate. I've personally sponsored a few $k for tournaments, and was planning on a $10k tournament in the next year, and things like this really make me think twice about what exactly my plans/goals were and how they would be received by everyone.
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everyone is being really overly dramatic about this whole thing, and it's really annoying.
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Embed what Socke had to say about this in the main post too OP
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my first reaction would be "damn dat money." then it would be "damn dat money for A guy."
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EPT
