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On January 28 2014 05:42 shinobi112 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:36 Blargh wrote:On January 28 2014 05:27 shinobi112 wrote:
Again with the "I feel shitty mentality because I can not get first place and win the 100,000" I agree starcraft 2 is a flawed game and people may get "shit" luck but at the top levels you have to feel like you have a chance against anyone in the world otherwise you will get nowhere with a progamer career. The fact of it is the scene is very hard to make a living even when you are winning some smaller tournaments. This tournament can seriously give a person a life changing amount and is a brilliant idea.
The idea of top players splitting the money or "match fixing" even is a very bad mentality for e-sports and should be frowned upon greatly, people should not accept this. We must rely on the players to maintain the integrity of the game. How about this... Why don't they just have a tournament where the top player can decide where to donate $100,000 to a selection of charities? Because I'm sure that'd be far more life changing for far more people than giving $100,000 to some SC2 player, who, honestly, will probably never do anything truly significant in their life. And what should be frowned upon greatly is the $100k prize pool with winner-takes-all. If the winner of this tournament gave the top 16 all equal shares after the fact, he'd become my permanent favorite player. Really you are going to try this argument? Money can ALWAYS go to someplace better, to someone in MORE need. Do not even try to debate that. If the player wants to split his money in 16 equal shares then that is fine but it SHOULD NOT be encouraged IF it lowers the level of performance by the other players.
You were the one who was trying to use the argument with the whole "could give a person a life-changing amount" bullshit. I can't even believe you came out and said "...is very hard to make a living even when you are winning some smaller tournaments." Having something like a $100,000 prizepool does.... THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what you said. You can't even use the dumbass politicians' "trickle down" argument here. It's far better to have a more even distribution if you want to help players have a sustainable income. Let's say MC wins it, then he'd have made the most money in SC2 than any other pro. Do you think that helps that one Korean guy who has only won one tournament (let's just say a previous IEM) and got to Ro16? The Korean who has only won $10k (prize money) in his whole SC2 is not going to be helping him make a living.
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On January 28 2014 05:55 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:53 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On January 28 2014 05:49 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On January 28 2014 05:48 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
I like Socke's opinion.
Except who is the "better" caster is largely subjective. The tournament can only have one winner, and whoever that is will most likely be the better player of the pool, at least in terms of mental composure and fortitude. How do you determine "best" caster without resorting to a ridiculously stupid popularity contest poll? Is that your description of democracy? "ridiculously stupid popularity contest poll?" Sure... democracy. If you seriously think the caster with the largest fanbase wouldn't win that, you're highly delusional and naive.
So why does caster have largest fanbase? maybe because hes the best at casting?
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This is the exact opposite of what we need from a $100k tournament.
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That's actually pretty horrible.
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On January 28 2014 05:57 SpikeStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:55 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On January 28 2014 05:53 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On January 28 2014 05:49 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Except who is the "better" caster is largely subjective. The tournament can only have one winner, and whoever that is will most likely be the better player of the pool, at least in terms of mental composure and fortitude. How do you determine "best" caster without resorting to a ridiculously stupid popularity contest poll? Is that your description of democracy? "ridiculously stupid popularity contest poll?" Sure... democracy. If you seriously think the caster with the largest fanbase wouldn't win that, you're highly delusional and naive. So why does caster have largest fanbase? maybe because hes the best at casting?
Wow... I just.... wow. Ok.
I guess Pewdiepie is the best youtube content creator then, and Justin Bieber is one of the best musicians of all time.
GG.
no re.
peace out yo (Y)
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On January 28 2014 05:57 SpikeStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:55 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On January 28 2014 05:53 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On January 28 2014 05:49 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Except who is the "better" caster is largely subjective. The tournament can only have one winner, and whoever that is will most likely be the better player of the pool, at least in terms of mental composure and fortitude. How do you determine "best" caster without resorting to a ridiculously stupid popularity contest poll? Is that your description of democracy? "ridiculously stupid popularity contest poll?" Sure... democracy. If you seriously think the caster with the largest fanbase wouldn't win that, you're highly delusional and naive. So why does caster have largest fanbase? maybe because hes the best at casting?
No? At least not necessarily, quality has very little to do with popularity these days (most of the time)
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On January 28 2014 05:53 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:49 JustPassingBy wrote:Socke needs to calm down, it's a crazy once in a lifetime experiment with players who are already earning a lot (that's how they qualified for this event in the first place). :-/ And crazy ones in a lifetime experiments can not be made with casters, who are earning a lot? Socke is probably just ridiculing the system, but he has a point.
If only he could transfer his playing skills into casting and cash in on that money. But we all know that being a caster is harder than it looks.
And Socke could just not play if it bothers him or focus on other events that are not winner takes all.
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On January 28 2014 05:57 SpikeStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:55 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On January 28 2014 05:53 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On January 28 2014 05:49 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Except who is the "better" caster is largely subjective. The tournament can only have one winner, and whoever that is will most likely be the better player of the pool, at least in terms of mental composure and fortitude. How do you determine "best" caster without resorting to a ridiculously stupid popularity contest poll? Is that your description of democracy? "ridiculously stupid popularity contest poll?" Sure... democracy. If you seriously think the caster with the largest fanbase wouldn't win that, you're highly delusional and naive. So why does caster have largest fanbase? maybe because hes the best at casting?
lol no. because he is doing other stuff, besides casting, that's why. TB would win any such poll if he wanted to.
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Stop looking at this in a vacuum, this is for IEM World Championship.
The smaller IEMs will still have the charitable distribution that dangle the money-carrot in front of the semi-pros.
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On January 28 2014 05:49 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Except who is the "better" caster is largely subjective. The tournament can only have one winner, and whoever that is will most likely be the better player of the pool, at least in terms of mental composure and fortitude. How do you determine "best" caster without resorting to a ridiculously stupid popularity contest poll?
I think you're missing Socke's point. Progaming isn't just a hobby for these competitors, it is a job. They spend hours every day practicing so that they can go to tournaments and compete as best they can. e-Sports is NOT a very sustainable environment and only a very small percentage of progamers actually make enough money in prize winnings to make this a sustainable jobs.
What IEM is doing with Katowice is frankly disrespecting the players' time and effort that they pour into a job by only heavily rewarding the player that manages to make it all the way. Socke is saying that if you're going to reward the best player and disrespect the hard work of all the other competitors, why not as well do the same for the staff? Only ONE can win after all, and for a lot of players, getting to the finals, the semis, or even the quarterfinals is a great accomplishment that a lot of their hard work has been put into, and not being rewarded AT ALL for it? It creates a toxic attitude and doesn't help out the Starcraft scene in any conceivable way.
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On January 28 2014 05:50 Epamynondas wrote:Except playing tournaments is actually a competition and casting is not.
Tell that to all the casters who get crapped on the minute some big name says "Sure, I don't mind casting that for you." There may not be an explicit, posted competition, but you better believe there's competition. Even among notable casters.
I know IEM is trying to shake things up, but if they really believe that they're competing with the likes of Dota2, LoL, etc., I think they're crazy to begin with. Also, making a larger prize pool for a winner-take-all competition seems strange. I can see a lot of teams not even allowing some team members to go unless they get all their expenses paid for by IEM. If the player is Korean with a big team match up coming, well good luck with that too unless their roster is completely stacked anyway. I really hope this tournament gets the draw that their hoping for, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a completely lackluster affair.
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On January 28 2014 05:57 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:55 Musicus wrote:
I am that guy, who wants an autograph?
But seriously, they need the money and I think they'd split if it's 100k or nothing or they'd be stupid. Missing out on that much money just because they don't like each other? I think they are smarter than that.
If anything. financially well off and competitive people like JD or MC wouldn't split. I also think that they would split. Splitting and not splitting is not about how much you hate the other player, but at how insane (in a strangely awesome way) you are.
I dont think splitting is right. One player won, he deserves the money. If one players fails to cope with the pressure, its his own fault; no excuse.
I cant imagine a better setup for Naniwa for winning this, cause with skill alone he has no chance.
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On January 28 2014 06:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:53 Xoronius wrote:On January 28 2014 05:49 JustPassingBy wrote:Socke needs to calm down, it's a crazy once in a lifetime experiment with players who are already earning a lot (that's how they qualified for this event in the first place). :-/ And crazy ones in a lifetime experiments can not be made with casters, who are earning a lot? Socke is probably just ridiculing the system, but he has a point. If only he could transfer his playing skills into casting and cash in on that money. But we all know that being a caster is harder than it looks. And Socke could just not play if it bothers him or focus on other events that are not winner takes all.
You keep making this point, like publicly disagreeing with IEM's choice is some kind of bad thing.
Also like there's an endless stream of tournaments where players can earn their living.
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I haven't watched an sc2 tournament in ages but I'll certainly be watching this!
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On January 28 2014 06:01 Ammanas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:57 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On January 28 2014 05:55 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On January 28 2014 05:53 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On January 28 2014 05:49 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Except who is the "better" caster is largely subjective. The tournament can only have one winner, and whoever that is will most likely be the better player of the pool, at least in terms of mental composure and fortitude. How do you determine "best" caster without resorting to a ridiculously stupid popularity contest poll? Is that your description of democracy? "ridiculously stupid popularity contest poll?" Sure... democracy. If you seriously think the caster with the largest fanbase wouldn't win that, you're highly delusional and naive. So why does caster have largest fanbase? maybe because hes the best at casting? lol no. because he is doing other stuff, besides casting, that's why. TB would win any such poll if he wanted to.
Well, I think TB has sufficient integrity to never even consider getting his fans to vote on such a thing. I was more pointing at casters who aren't exactly at the top anymore, but nevertheless continue to command a massively loyal and numerous fanbase within the SC2 scene, mostly among the more casual players.
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On January 28 2014 06:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:53 Xoronius wrote:On January 28 2014 05:49 JustPassingBy wrote:Socke needs to calm down, it's a crazy once in a lifetime experiment with players who are already earning a lot (that's how they qualified for this event in the first place). :-/ And crazy ones in a lifetime experiments can not be made with casters, who are earning a lot? Socke is probably just ridiculing the system, but he has a point. If only he could transfer his playing skills into casting and cash in on that money. But we all know that being a caster is harder than it looks. And Socke could just not play if it bothers him or focus on other events that are not winner takes all.
I highly doubt, that he will play there. Also saying that Socke should just not play instead of arguing about the tournament, while arguing about the tournament in this discussion, is a pretty bold statement. I´m sure, that Socke has more inside knowledge and a more valuable opinion than both of us combined and still we are arguing, so why should´nt he?
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On January 28 2014 05:59 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:57 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On January 28 2014 05:55 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On January 28 2014 05:53 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On January 28 2014 05:49 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Except who is the "better" caster is largely subjective. The tournament can only have one winner, and whoever that is will most likely be the better player of the pool, at least in terms of mental composure and fortitude. How do you determine "best" caster without resorting to a ridiculously stupid popularity contest poll? Is that your description of democracy? "ridiculously stupid popularity contest poll?" Sure... democracy. If you seriously think the caster with the largest fanbase wouldn't win that, you're highly delusional and naive. So why does caster have largest fanbase? maybe because hes the best at casting? Wow... I just.... wow. Ok. I guess Pewdiepie is the best youtube content creator then, and Justin Bieber is one of the best musicians of all time. GG. no re. peace out yo (Y)
I looked it up. Justin Bieber never won a people's choice award.
the guys you talk about are entertainers and they are successful in entertaining. You dont have to like it but apparently enough other people appreciate it and think its good.
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On January 28 2014 06:02 chaos021 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:50 Epamynondas wrote:Except playing tournaments is actually a competition and casting is not. Tell that to all the casters who get crapped on the minute some big name says "Sure, I don't mind casting that for you." There may not be an explicit, posted competition, but you better believe there's competition. Even among notable casters.
That's a competition in the same way getting a contract from EG is a competition.
A tournament competition is not the same thing and there's no similar thing in casting that i know of.
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Poland375 Posts
On January 28 2014 05:21 Carmac wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:22 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
It's hard to be negative about a $100k announcement but this is just bad. If you like flat prize distributions, you should send your best players to events that have them.
To clarify, I meant: "you should have sent your best players to events that have them."
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On January 28 2014 06:05 SpikeStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:59 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On January 28 2014 05:57 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On January 28 2014 05:55 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On January 28 2014 05:53 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On January 28 2014 05:49 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Except who is the "better" caster is largely subjective. The tournament can only have one winner, and whoever that is will most likely be the better player of the pool, at least in terms of mental composure and fortitude. How do you determine "best" caster without resorting to a ridiculously stupid popularity contest poll? Is that your description of democracy? "ridiculously stupid popularity contest poll?" Sure... democracy. If you seriously think the caster with the largest fanbase wouldn't win that, you're highly delusional and naive. So why does caster have largest fanbase? maybe because hes the best at casting? Wow... I just.... wow. Ok. I guess Pewdiepie is the best youtube content creator then, and Justin Bieber is one of the best musicians of all time. GG. no re. peace out yo (Y) I looked it up. Justin Bieber never won a people's choice award. the guys you talk about are entertainers and they are successful in entertaining. You dont have to like it but apparently enough other people appreciate it and think its good.
So if Pewdiepie all of a sudden switched to casting SC2 for some odd reason and most of his fanbase would be ok with that and entertained by it, you think he would deserve to win a popularity contest over someone like Artosis or Apollo and that would mean he is a better caster than them?
Hmm.. :D
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EPT
