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Starbow - Page 325

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SmileZerg
Profile Joined March 2012
United States543 Posts
November 09 2014 00:09 GMT
#6481
I do find it kind of amusing how shamelessly they ripped some of the ideas from us.

Stasis Wards on Oracles, Blizz? However did you think of that? ;D
"Show me your teeth."
404AlphaSquad
Profile Joined October 2011
839 Posts
November 09 2014 00:14 GMT
#6482
On November 09 2014 09:09 SmileZerg wrote:
I do find it kind of amusing how shamelessly they ripped some of the ideas from us.

Stasis Wards on Oracles, Blizz? However did you think of that? ;D

That doesnt matter. If Blizzard truly had "stolen" ideas from StarBow to make a better game, wouldnt that make everyone happy?
aka Kalevi
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
November 09 2014 00:17 GMT
#6483
starbow once had static mines?

I saw a comment today that said beta the first half of 2015.
This was after the sc2 multiplayer panel.
SmileZerg
Profile Joined March 2012
United States543 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-09 00:22:53
November 09 2014 00:21 GMT
#6484
On November 09 2014 09:14 404AlphaSquad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 09:09 SmileZerg wrote:
I do find it kind of amusing how shamelessly they ripped some of the ideas from us.

Stasis Wards on Oracles, Blizz? However did you think of that? ;D

That doesnt matter. If Blizzard truly had "stolen" ideas from StarBow to make a better game, wouldnt that make everyone happy?

Oh I agree, I didn't say it was a bad thing, just that I thought it was funny.

On November 09 2014 09:17 Foxxan wrote:
starbow once had static mines?

No but they were very obviously inspired by the Null Wards on the Sentinel.
"Show me your teeth."
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
November 09 2014 18:56 GMT
#6485
An overview of similarities between Starbow and changes announced to come in LotV: (reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2lrh9o/thoughts_and_ideas_from_starbow_in_legacy_of_the/)

Things the same in Starbow

  • 8 seconds warp in time for units from warpgates.
  • The lurker (but ofc from BW as well)
  • Dropships/Medivacs being able to pick up tanks in siege mode.
  • Speed and range upgrade to Banshee


Things similar in Starbow

  • The new economy structure.
  • Warp drive "blink" for the Battlecruiser.
  • Oracle stasis trap is mighty similar to the sentinel's null ward.
  • New corruptor ability to deal with ground buildings feels similar to the blight ability on the Devour.


Please do not misunderstand this post. I am hyped about LotV and happy that some ideas from Starbow is making it in to SC2. I am also aware that many of these ideas may have been developed independently and may not "come" from Starbow.

But the first thing I noticed from the LotV announcement was the similarities so I could not help myself from making these lists
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
November 09 2014 19:03 GMT
#6486
The eco is unchanged in lotv.....
The corruptor ability is from the campaign.
-Dustin-
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States718 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-10 22:19:13
November 10 2014 22:18 GMT
#6487
On November 10 2014 03:56 Xiphias wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

An overview of similarities between Starbow and changes announced to come in LotV: (reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2lrh9o/thoughts_and_ideas_from_starbow_in_legacy_of_the/)

Things the same in Starbow

  • 8 seconds warp in time for units from warpgates.
  • The lurker (but ofc from BW as well)
  • Dropships/Medivacs being able to pick up tanks in siege mode.
  • Speed and range upgrade to Banshee


Things similar in Starbow

  • The new economy structure.
  • Warp drive "blink" for the Battlecruiser.
  • Oracle stasis trap is mighty similar to the sentinel's null ward.
  • New corruptor ability to deal with ground buildings feels similar to the blight ability on the Devour.


Please do not misunderstand this post. I am hyped about LotV and happy that some ideas from Starbow is making it in to SC2. I am also aware that many of these ideas may have been developed independently and may not "come" from Starbow.

But the first thing I noticed from the LotV announcement was the similarities so I could not help myself from making these lists

Yeah it kinda took some of the hype out of it. Through most of the videos I was like seen it... seen it... but if its in Starbow it must be good I'm hoping they don't screw LotV up.
Kireak
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden358 Posts
November 15 2014 15:56 GMT
#6488
I've posted in in the starbow forums, but I think regardless of whether Legacy of the void will be a great game or not it will mean that Starbow becomes more unique. If you want to play with old early rushes like 6 pool, early barracks pressure etc it means that you will have to play Starbow. It differentiates Broodwar and Starcraft 2 further, which means it will naturally differentiate Starbow further from Starcraft 2.
Tresher
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany404 Posts
November 15 2014 16:27 GMT
#6489
On November 10 2014 04:03 Foxxan wrote:
The eco is unchanged in lotv.....
The corruptor ability is from the campaign.

Eco itself not but you start with 12 workers and Mineral Patches and Gas geysers have less value.
Corruptors are not avaiable in Campaign.
Extreme Force
AndAgain
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2621 Posts
November 16 2014 04:46 GMT
#6490
An issue with Starbow I see is that players feel obliged to play in a certain style - whether it's like BW or however they'd like SC2 to be. So we're not gonna see what Starbow actually plays like until there's a strong enough incentive to win.
All your teeth should fall out and hair should grow in their place!
starslayer
Profile Joined August 2011
United States696 Posts
November 16 2014 04:54 GMT
#6491
On November 10 2014 04:03 Foxxan wrote:
The eco is unchanged in lotv.....
The corruptor ability is from the campaign.


the blink for bcs also was tired in hots beta for a bit if i remember right
i came here to kickass and chew bubblegum and i'm all out of bubble gum
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
November 16 2014 06:37 GMT
#6492
So Starbow took ideas of the community and LotV did as well ... shocking. Wanted Sieged Tanks pickup able a few month into WoL, since they were the expensive thing that died first in combination with Bio and it made no sense to me that the meatshields for greedy Terrans are their expensive weaponry. So yay that LotV might have it, and yay that Starbow has it.

And BCs had a speed boost in HotS at some point. The warp idea came from the Hyperion mission.

Most from that list I recognized as ideas before Starbow implemented them. But skills are often just different versions of something that already existed in its pure form at some point. And to say something similar is a copy in that world makes everything a copy.

But I had to think of Starbow as well when I saw the LotV presentation, but I also think about Starbow if someone suggests anything here, no offense since I like to play the Mod.

(Gliding off topic now)

The other thing that came to my mind was, damn that looks like the Voidzone hell you know from MMOs and Dota style games. And while most Sc2 units and skills are somehow related to Sc1, you can also see that they got some inspiration from the rpg rts scene that split itself apart from the original rts scene around the decline of Wc3. And of course inhouse titles like D3.

Voidzones add some spice to LotV though and the intention is pretty clear too. Speed up the game but slow down big armies with voidzones. Makes the game alot harder to play and for me it sounds like LotV shouldn't be played on fastest, if you want players be able to handle the game without looking like idiots to viewers. But maybe LotV will bring back this BW effect where you think that you could never pull that off what just happened.
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-16 06:42:09
November 16 2014 06:39 GMT
#6493
nvm bad post
TL+ Member
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
November 16 2014 21:35 GMT
#6494
Changes to testmap, Ahli made a lot of these changes happen, creds to him!

  • Medics have +50 max energy (total of 150)
  • Infested terrans are now 35 energy.
  • Carriers are now even more BW (thanks to Ahli)
  • Roaches are now on hatchery tech with roach warren requirement. They are 120 hp with 1 armor and 8 normal damage. For every hit on an enemy, the roach will add an effect which deals 6 damage over 5 seconds but does not stack. They also get a burrow speed bonus on creep.
  • Burrow upgrade on hatchery is now 100/100 and takes 120 seconds.
  • Mutalisks now have spread/clump button. Not super effective, by design.
  • Mutalisk attack aesthetics improved, thanks to dec for stealing that from SC2BW mod
  • Nydus worm no longer makes a noise for the opponent when finished.
  • Banelings now reveal cloaked units upon impact for 5 seconds.
  • Sentinel attack improved in terms of reliability.
  • Lurker sounds fixed.
  • SCV call-down back at 25 energy (I messed up with the 40 energy).
  • Inject back to 3 sec (it was 5 for a while).


Most of this stuff is pretty strait forward, but the roach and the infested terran changes I wanna say a bit about.

The roach idea props goes to Kireak and they are designed now to soft counter stalkers, but to be countered by dragoons to potentially add some more flavor to PvZ. Roach stats as they now stand may be bad though, this is initial testing. The extra damage effect it now has should help to discourage massing them as several roaches hitting the same target is less effective now.

trb found some incredibly broken strategies by abusing early infested terrans which was completely contrary to our game design philosophy with them. They probably actually need to be 50 energy, but we will try 35 for now. He could basically hard counter FFE and there was nothing toss could do about it with 0 risk to the zerg player.

If all the changes on the testmap feels good then this will be very similar to next patch. My impression is that the most controversial one is the instant inject.

Reminder about the names:
  • Fighting Spirit testmap: "sbow FS v0.510 testmap"
  • Unit tester: "Xiphias tester" (This is not to praise myself, I initially made this map just to test some stuff myself and it's much easier to update the mod behind a map then to change the map itself....)


Also, we will test a different version of the Herc as soon as LotV mod is done with it so we can "burrow" it :D
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
royalroadweed
Profile Joined April 2013
United States8301 Posts
November 16 2014 21:40 GMT
#6495
On November 16 2014 13:54 starslayer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2014 04:03 Foxxan wrote:
The eco is unchanged in lotv.....
The corruptor ability is from the campaign.


the blink for bcs also was tired in hots beta for a bit if i remember right

I think they had a slower, shorter medivac boost.
"Nerfing Toss can just make them stronger"
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
November 16 2014 21:42 GMT
#6496
On November 09 2014 09:09 SmileZerg wrote:
I do find it kind of amusing how shamelessly they ripped some of the ideas from us.

Stasis Wards on Oracles, Blizz? However did you think of that? ;D


Shame they didn't steal the way you guys set up gathering instead.
maru lover forever
Espers
Profile Joined August 2009
United Kingdom606 Posts
November 16 2014 21:57 GMT
#6497
I feel there's absolutely no direction with these Starbow changes. The Roach change doesn't seem very creative or interesting, they won't be fun to use at all. Stalkers will still hurt the PvZ matchup more than they add since Zerg can't tech behind Spine Crawlers, giving them very limited options.
Vehk
Profile Joined December 2010
United States151 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-17 01:25:30
November 17 2014 01:25 GMT
#6498
The Roach change makes them a very different unit. The complaints about the Roach were that that it is a "make a big ball of them" SC2 type unit. This Roach becomes less effective per cost if you mass a bunch of them due to the way the damage over time doesn't stack. It makes them more of a sprinkle them in your army type unit. In smaller numbers the Roach can change targets to maximize damage.
Organizer, Administrator, and Caster of Monday Night Starbow
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
November 17 2014 01:59 GMT
#6499
On November 17 2014 06:57 Espers wrote:
I feel there's absolutely no direction with these Starbow changes. The Roach change doesn't seem very creative or interesting, they won't be fun to use at all. Stalkers will still hurt the PvZ matchup more than they add since Zerg can't tech behind Spine Crawlers, giving them very limited options.


The intention, especially since they are on hatch tech, is that you won't need a wall of spine crawlers (which does not help much anyways vs stalkers).
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
November 19 2014 15:27 GMT
#6500
Testmap update!

Things currently in the testmap which is not in the live version. A lot of this might get patched into the live version in the next patch. Warning, the testmap changes a lot all the time:

  • Max energy of Orbital, Nexus and Queens set to 45.
  • Rift is now 40 energy.
  • Lidar upgrade removed from the engineering bay.
  • Scan now starts on a 50 second cooldown with 2 charges. Energy cost of scan removed.
  • 3 second inject. Stick with 25 range for now.
  • Vision reduction like in the testmap. Most units got -1.
  • Infested terrans having marine stats.
  • Infested eggs having no armor.
  • Infestor burrow movement speed down to 2.8
  • Ensnare no longer reveals cloaked units.
  • Sentinel attack change to be two short beams of 5 damage each. The second beam fires shortly after the first and will not fire if you "scoot and shoot".
  • Null ward no longer cloaked. It now lives 15 seconds and has a weapon which deals 16 damage with a weapon speed of 1,5 and 8 range. Life of null ward increased to 25/25. Remember that null-wards, although they are flying units, cannot be placed over unpathable terrain nor dead-space.
  • Banelings always do their effect upon death.
  • Bug fix banelings to reveal cloaked units.
  • Parasite lasts 60 sec +1 range and no cast delay time.
  • Missile turrets missiles are 12,5% faster (bug fix).
  • Irradiate does 8 dmg / sec for 22 sec. Total of 176 damage.
  • Burrow trail for infestors (bug fix).
  • Remove burrow queen hatch requirement bug.
  • Fixed Greater spire tooltip.
  • Medics +50 starting energy.
  • Infested terrans are now 35 energy.
  • Roaches are now on hatchery tech with roach warren requirement. They are 150 hp with 1 armor and 10 normal damage. For every hit on an enemy, the roach will add an effect which deals 8 damage over 5 seconds but does not stack. They also get a burrow speed bonus on creep. They unlock burrow from the burrow upgrade on hatchery.
  • Burrow upgrade on hatchery is now 100/100 and takes 120 seconds.
  • Mutalisks now have spread/clump button. Not super effective, by design.
  • Mutalisk attack aesthetics improved
  • Mutalisk range decreased to 3.25
  • Nydus worm no longer makes a noise for the opponent when finished.
  • Sentinel cost reduced to 75/125.
  • Nurture swarm is energy cost set to 40. It increases BT by 150% (up from 100%), but still heals for the same amount. (75 hp).
  • Overseers have new ability. Spawn Wespling. Cost 100 energy. Spawns a small flying unit with 2,5 movement speed for 25 seconds. The Wespling has 50 life.
  • Overseer speed reduced to overlord speed.
  • Vulture hp increased to 80.
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
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