So as you all know by now we are looking at various game speeds and all Starbow maps now have a setting in the lobby (top left) where you can change the game speed.
We are currently feeling really good about 12,5% speed increase.
Now, there are several potential problems with current macro mechanics and it won't get better with higher game speed. This seems to be especially prevalent in TvZ where higher marine counts makes it harder for zerg to take a third base and the late-game cloud of science vessels seems grow much quicker than they did in BW.
We now have a testmap where the macro mechanics are reduced in several ways. It is named:
sbow macro 25 test
Changes:
Overcharge does half effect
Call-down SCV costs 50 energy.
Chrono boost does half effect (same as before on cannons)
Inject costs 25 energy (same effect as before)
Nurturing swarm does half effect, but Lair build time is set to brood war build time.
Please try this map and give us feedback.
Some explanation: So basically all macro mechanics that gives a time boost effect has been cut in half and all macro mechanics that has a cooldown / period has increased in cost. If we were to half the effectiveness of e.g. inject, then the time it takes for a larva to pop would need to be twice as long. That means that by the time one larva has popped you would have energy for 2 more injects, e.g. very slow macro cycle with influx of energy, which seems counter intuitive. So such effects got a cost increase instead. One could argue that we could use the old inject which just boosted the spawn time of larva, but then we would have to cut that in half (so about +30% faster spawn time), but that would be such a small effect that it would hardly be noticed by any player. Also the extra larva has more strategic implications and makes for more dynamics imo.
Yeah, have just started "trying" to play SB again on EU. I have had problems finding games on ladder these last two nights. I would like to get my placement matches done, but searching for a custom game may be the easier solution. Hope it is noobfriendly!
In spite of that, we are actually more players now than we have been in a while.
The active ladder players, a few weeks ago, was mostly A-C rank players, and not too many either. There seems to be much more C-E rank players now which is much better for new players trying to learn the game. It might not be too noob friendly, but more noob friendly than it has been in a while.
I literally have no idea what the meta is so for my ZvP games, I just went 3 hatch into lair and got wrecked by double stargate corsair. Sounds about the same as what happened to me in BW.
What's the general strategies lately inthe matchups?
On September 11 2014 20:40 neobowman wrote: I literally have no idea what the meta is so for my ZvP games, I just went 3 hatch into lair and got wrecked by double stargate corsair. Sounds about the same as what happened to me in BW.
What's the general strategies lately inthe matchups?
You should check out Day[9]'s daily starbow ZvP analysis, here's the link of part 1 :
On September 11 2014 20:40 neobowman wrote: I literally have no idea what the meta is so for my ZvP games, I just went 3 hatch into lair and got wrecked by double stargate corsair. Sounds about the same as what happened to me in BW.
What's the general strategies lately inthe matchups?
I did take a look at it, but it seemed to be general ZvP BW strategy. I didn't want to base my gameplay off of one game with players of unknown skill either.
I made a list of current issues we are looking at and some potential solutions. This is to gather thoughts. I will add which solutions are being on which testmap later.
I know the ladder is back to being fairly inactive and I am not too bothered by that atm. I think the single most important contribution anyone in the Starbow community can do is to test suggested changes and comment on those as well as come with insight and suggestions about current game state. Once Starbow is out of beta I'll start worry about ladder inactivity
Here is the format:
Potential issue
Solution #1
Solution #2 (this one is on the current testmap)
Solution #3
Note that just because something is a potential issue does not mean that it will be changed in the next patch. Also note that all solutions which I can remember and have heard and carry some substance to them will be added to the list. That does not mean that we will make every change that is ever suggested. Finally note that one problem may end up being solved by combining several solutions.
The list
Gameplay feels slow and sluggish. Also BW was more zoomed in and unit sizes were different so current game speed looks slower than BW game speed
Increase the current game-speed by 12,5%
Zoom in the game to BW value (not sure why I am even adding this one....)
Zerg having a hard time taking a third vs Terrans
Queen 100 minerals, no supply and no enrage.
Maybe try same as above but 150 min?
Overcharge on barracks down from 100% to 75%.
Missile turret armor removed. Some other tweak to make missile turrets worse vs mutas.
Critical mass of corsairs attained too fast
Longer BT.
25% chorno on Starport.
scourge with splash dmg upgrade
Having corsairs and general air units not clump as much (except mutalisks)
decrease stationary turn rate for corsairs to make scourge connect easier.
Critical mass of Science Vessel's (SV) attained too fast / too easy to irradiate everything quickly
Longer BT
Less SV acceleration
Less clumping of SV (so cloning scourge is easier)
scourge splash dmg upgrade.
25% overcharge effect on Starports
Zerg feels "thin" on unit variety
Give back roach. same stats as before but let them be able to stay burrowed as long as possilbe. Also get's a small speed boost while burrowed for the first 3 seconds after burrow.
Other zerg unit instead?
Vipers are fairly useless, and consume makes any good spell we add to them IMBA
Replace Vipers with infestors. Have ensnare, IT and neural. Increase projectile speed of ensnare a lot compared to current Viper ensnare. Have them be able to cast neural while burrowed at a short range.
Some really good idea for a second Viper spell....
Null wards makes certain PvT styles force terran to turtle very heavily and leads to very boring and potentially imba gameplay in favor of protoss.
Null ward duration decreased to 30 sec.
Null wards cloak removed, but must now target ground (autocast removed). Should do more damage or have bigger splash radius to compensate. A version of this is on the decemberscalm testmap.
Stalkers still feel useless (not sure if I want to address this yet as Stalkers recently got a buff)
dmg increased to 14/10,5/7
+2 attack per upgrade
blink range increased either by default or from the duality charge.
Let me know if there are glaring issues I have not thought about / forgotten or if there are other solutions which you think should be tested. I won't promise we will test everything, but I would like this list to be as complete as possible.
Null wards cloak removed, but must now target ground (autocast removed). Should do more damage or have bigger splash radius to compensate. A version of this is on the decemberscalm testmap.
Glad your looking at the Sentinel now. I think it's more interesting than its Sc2-counterpart. But the more you play vs it and against it, the less fun it feels.
My opinion: Balance Nullward around being very strong when it hits well (comparable to Reaver shots/Psy Storm), but makeit possible to remicro against it after the projectile is fired. Have you tested out something like +50% AOE radius, but -50% projectile speed? I remember when I tested this very quickly in the editor, it felt a ton better.
And yes also get rid of stealth, and balance it around not requiring detection (probably longer range).
@ Stalker
I think unit needs a redesign. Does it really need to have both fast movement speed/max acceleration and blink? Are there are any of those values which can be reduced, in other to compensate it in different ways so it can be less "gimmicky"?
Vipers are fairly useless, and consume makes any good spell we add to them IMBA
This claim doens't make sense to me. I don't see why the abilities can't be balanced around consume. Yes the previous version of Parastic didn't work, because its design was awful. Consume just amplified that effect, but balanced/good designs of abilities can surely work along a strong consume.
Globally increase the model size of all units! Possibly buildings, too >_< Can easily be done with triggers. Depending on the size of the increase, you'd need to modify each unit's boundaries to make collision look correct, though. That and it may change some unit relationships.
Half joking. Boosting gamespeed is probably the best approach, but I do miss BW size.
On September 18 2014 01:23 purakushi wrote: Globally increase the model size of all units! Possibly buildings, too >_< Can easily be done with triggers. Depending on the size of the increase, you'd need to modify each unit's boundaries to make collision look correct, though. That and it may change some unit relationships.
Half joking. Boosting gamespeed is probably the best approach, but I do miss BW size.
Actually in BW units were way smaller, they just appeared bigger because it was so zoomed in. And we want to avoid triggers as much as possible.
On September 18 2014 01:23 purakushi wrote: Globally increase the model size of all units! Possibly buildings, too >_< Can easily be done with triggers. Depending on the size of the increase, you'd need to modify each unit's boundaries to make collision look correct, though. That and it may change some unit relationships.
Half joking. Boosting gamespeed is probably the best approach, but I do miss BW size.
Actually in BW units were way smaller, they just appeared bigger because it was so zoomed in. And we want to avoid triggers as much as possible.
Understandable, I was just meaning make them "bigger" to get the same feel as BW, even though it does not really match up with the resolution of SC2.
Why the avoidance of triggers? If it is a concern for lag, this one is like 3-4 lines, if I remember correctly. Regardless, it should not affect anything or at least is an easy way to test larger looking units.
On September 18 2014 01:23 purakushi wrote: Globally increase the model size of all units! Possibly buildings, too >_< Can easily be done with triggers. Depending on the size of the increase, you'd need to modify each unit's boundaries to make collision look correct, though. That and it may change some unit relationships.
Half joking. Boosting gamespeed is probably the best approach, but I do miss BW size.
I'm not a fan of brood war size. As a terran player, It was soooo difficult just finding places to built supply depots.
On September 18 2014 01:23 purakushi wrote: Globally increase the model size of all units! Possibly buildings, too >_< Can easily be done with triggers. Depending on the size of the increase, you'd need to modify each unit's boundaries to make collision look correct, though. That and it may change some unit relationships.
Half joking. Boosting gamespeed is probably the best approach, but I do miss BW size.
I'm not a fan of brood war size. As a terran player, It was soooo difficult just finding places to built supply depots.
EPT
I'll try to get the replay form someone).
