im sorry but when u a move FIVE dragoons (and im sure this would happen with more than 5 goons aswell) into a single mine the mine shouldnt even come close to damaging a goon, and this is 1 mine were talking about.. terrans usually have more than 1 mine in a spot
Did you watch the linked youtube video? 5 dragoons were amoved in BW as well. The results were random. Some times they killed it before. Other times they didn't. But when they did in BW, the effect of the splash was alot more severe. So in average, it seems as it balancewise not being stronger in Starbow.
Tt1 you do realize you can micro mines... Right? What happens to everything else that is micro vs a move? A move loses to micro. Every time. Your argument is pretty stupid bro.
im sorry but when u a move FIVE dragoons (and im sure this would happen with more than 5 goons aswell) into a single mine the mine shouldnt even come close to damaging a goon, and this is 1 mine were talking about.. terrans usually have more than 1 mine in a spot
Did you watch the linked youtube video? 5 dragoons were amoved in BW as well. The results were random. Some times they killed it before. Other times they didn't. But when they did in BW, the effect of the splash was alot more severe. So in average, it seems as it balancewise not being stronger in Starbow.
i dont need to watch a video of a SC2 mod trying to replicate goon vs mine engagements when i play BW every day. that would never happen in BW, you cant mimic that situation because the AI and game speed (lat/lag) is completely different in BW
On March 01 2014 10:08 Jermman wrote: Tt1 you do realize you can micro mines... Right? What happens to everything else that is micro vs a move? A move loses to micro. Every time. Your argument is pretty stupid bro.
On March 01 2014 10:08 Jermman wrote: Tt1 you do realize you can micro mines... Right? What happens to everything else that is micro vs a move? A move loses to micro. Every time. Your argument is pretty stupid bro.
If you're talking about being able to target-fire with mines, they actually removed that when they re-made the spider mine (making it more like it was in BW). Otherwise I'm not sure how you would micro a mine, unless you mean micro'ing a vulture to place a mine..
On March 01 2014 10:08 Jermman wrote: Tt1 you do realize you can micro mines... Right? What happens to everything else that is micro vs a move? A move loses to micro. Every time. Your argument is pretty stupid bro.
hey bro how do i know where his mines are burrowed bro, i cant stutter step my goons every inch of the map bro
im sorry but when u a move FIVE dragoons (and im sure this would happen with more than 5 goons aswell) into a single mine the mine shouldnt even come close to damaging a goon, and this is 1 mine were talking about.. terrans usually have more than 1 mine in a spot
Did you watch the linked youtube video? 5 dragoons were amoved in BW as well. The results were random. Some times they killed it before. Other times they didn't. But when they did in BW, the effect of the splash was alot more severe. So in average, it seems as it balancewise not being stronger in Starbow.
i dont need to watch a video of a SC2 mod trying to replicate goon vs mine engagements when i play BW every day. that would never happen in BW, you cant mimic that situation because the AI and game speed (lat/lag) is completely different in BW
I think the point of the video is that Starbow-mine isn't 100% = BW mine. But as you could see in the video, some times BW Spider Mines did go off on 5-amoved Dragoons. That's why I can't understand how you would say it would never happen in BW.
On March 01 2014 08:40 Hider wrote: Not sure if December wanted to make a post about it. But below is a video of the differences between Spider Mines in BW and Starbow. This is a a reponse to TT1 not being satifised about not being able to amove 5 Dragoons vs Spider Mines in Starbow, but if you look at the below video I am not convinced that Starbow Mines are better on average.
Drunk as hell on my vacations to Colonge's Karneval and I can't believe people are complaining about balance. There's no problem about imbalance, just find strategies to overcome your issues! Isn't this a strategy game? Isn't this a game aimed for elite minds? Cmon, keep those brains working!
I think TT1 was angry because he thought he lost to some random guy (and most people believe they deserve to win). However, Dirtybag is arguable the best/top 3 Starbow player atm going by internal results. He is 5-4 against RSVP over the last couple of days and 3-2 against the RedBanddit. Note that while Dirtybag had less APM than TT1, he had roughly 30 more in EAPM than him, so at least on the ouside one can't objectievely say that Dirtybag's mechanics aren't of a certain caliber.
im sorry but when u a move FIVE dragoons (and im sure this would happen with more than 5 goons aswell) into a single mine the mine shouldnt even come close to damaging a goon, and this is 1 mine were talking about.. terrans usually have more than 1 mine in a spot
also you can spam eapm aswell just by clicking alot :D, in the 2 games i lost i was supply blocked for 20 secs to his 4-5mins +. that just doesnt make any sense to me, i kept losing goons inefficiently to his vulture harass but i dont know how i could have handled it any better. vults just move so fast and mines always trade efficiently
anyways im done with this argument. its ur game, do w/e u want with it. ill be done after tomorrow
TT1, as much as we love you, I'm quite sure you'll figure out how to deal with them black crowes Just give it one or two spins and you'll be there.
PD: Anyway, your beloved country devastated curling, so just give other countries the chance, man! PD2: Canada plays really aggresive curling. I wasn't aware that missiles were allowd.
On March 01 2014 10:08 Jermman wrote: Tt1 you do realize you can micro mines... Right? What happens to everything else that is micro vs a move? A move loses to micro. Every time. Your argument is pretty stupid bro.
hey bro how do i know where his mines are burrowed bro, i cant stutter step my goons every inch of the map bro
I am pretty disappointed in your attitude, i hope innovation will teach you some manners tomorrow. BRO
On March 01 2014 10:08 Jermman wrote: Tt1 you do realize you can micro mines... Right? What happens to everything else that is micro vs a move? A move loses to micro. Every time. Your argument is pretty stupid bro.
hey bro how do i know where his mines are burrowed bro, i cant stutter step my goons every inch of the map bro
How about an obs or sentinal you arrogant retard. The games you were talking about werent won or Lost by early game goons.
And unless they changed it within the last 24 hours, you can micro mines soon as they pop. You can move then not just target fire.
Seriously though, educated balance discussion is one thing, this is entirely another. Sad to see one who was a pillar of the community go on such a rant
Spider mines are pretty troublesome, especially when a pack of vultures get inside your dragoon group and start placing mines. You have to stop attacking the vultures and move your goons back before re-engaging which gives the vultures a bunch of free dps. This makes roaming the map clearing mine-fields a little hard when vultures that outnumber your clearing pack show up. I'm not exactly sure how you would nerf them though outside of a very minor speed reduction.
No need to nerf them really, only one person this far seems to think that there even is a problem with them. We'll see how other Protosses deal with them tomorrow, such as Crank and rsvp.
On March 01 2014 10:33 Kaos_StarCraft wrote: Spider mines are pretty troublesome, especially when a pack of vultures get inside your dragoon group and start placing mines. You have to stop attacking the vultures and move your goons back before re-engaging which gives the vultures a bunch of free dps. This makes roaming the map clearing mine-fields a little hard when vultures that outnumber your clearing pack show up. I'm not exactly sure how you would nerf them though outside of a very minor speed reduction.
I feel like people just aren't performing the correct micro. Ive played plenty of PvTs and am not at all afraid of that situation or mines in general. Ive been mine clearing easily with 2-3 goons, just keep them spread instead of clumped.
Really TT1, is your only complaint that you have to make 5-6 obs every PvT(which...is...standard....)....
im sorry but when u a move FIVE dragoons (and im sure this would happen with more than 5 goons aswell) into a single mine the mine shouldnt even come close to damaging a goon, and this is 1 mine were talking about.. terrans usually have more than 1 mine in a spot
Did you watch the linked youtube video? 5 dragoons were amoved in BW as well. The results were random. Some times they killed it before. Other times they didn't. But when they did in BW, the effect of the splash was alot more severe. So in average, it seems as it balancewise not being stronger in Starbow.
i dont need to watch a video of a SC2 mod trying to replicate goon vs mine engagements when i play BW every day. that would never happen in BW, you cant mimic that situation because the AI and game speed (lat/lag) is completely different in BW
Eh, the point is that it doesn't actually replciate it. Its different, but as you could see in BW, some times Spider Mines did go off on 5-amoved Dragoons. That's why I can't understand how you would say it would never happen in BW.
the odds of a mine going off vs 5 goons is pretty low in BW. it was more of a pathing based thing, if u a moved into a mine ur goons would walk in a line, the first goon would glitch into the mine but the ones in the back would kill the mine before it got to the goon. if u only have 2/3 goons their attack would glitch and theyd run into the mine
in general starbow vultures/mines are much better than in BW because the AI is so much better. mines dont explode on each other and u cant drag them with zeals like you used to in BW, and theyre much easier to place. on top of that vultures are insanely fast which makes it easy to harass with them. when u couple that with terran chrono/being able to produce them 2 at a time the unit becomes extremely strong
On March 01 2014 10:33 Kaos_StarCraft wrote: Spider mines are pretty troublesome, especially when a pack of vultures get inside your dragoon group and start placing mines. You have to stop attacking the vultures and move your goons back before re-engaging which gives the vultures a bunch of free dps. This makes roaming the map clearing mine-fields a little hard when vultures that outnumber your clearing pack show up. I'm not exactly sure how you would nerf them though outside of a very minor speed reduction.
This was the case in bw too. Any ways, dirtybag is the best terran I've played in starbow. He is experienced in this mod and seems to be a great tactician as well. Regardless of wither the spider mine proves to be overpowered or underpowered, the dismissal of his skill is not warranted.
im sorry but when u a move FIVE dragoons (and im sure this would happen with more than 5 goons aswell) into a single mine the mine shouldnt even come close to damaging a goon, and this is 1 mine were talking about.. terrans usually have more than 1 mine in a spot
Did you watch the linked youtube video? 5 dragoons were amoved in BW as well. The results were random. Some times they killed it before. Other times they didn't. But when they did in BW, the effect of the splash was alot more severe. So in average, it seems as it balancewise not being stronger in Starbow.
i dont need to watch a video of a SC2 mod trying to replicate goon vs mine engagements when i play BW every day. that would never happen in BW, you cant mimic that situation because the AI and game speed (lat/lag) is completely different in BW
Eh, the point is that it doesn't actually replciate it. Its different, but as you could see in BW, some times Spider Mines did go off on 5-amoved Dragoons. That's why I can't understand how you would say it would never happen in BW.
the odds of a mine going off vs 5 goons is pretty low in BW. it was more of a pathing based thing, if u a moved into a mine ur goons would walk in a line, the first goon would glitch into the mine but the ones in the back would kill the mine before it got to the goon. if u have 2 goons both of them would glitch before they could get a shot in
in general starbow vultures/mines are much better than in BW because the AI is so much better. mines dont explode on each other and u cant drag them with zeals like you used to in BW, and theyre much easier to place. on top of that vultures are insanely fast which makes it easy to harass with them
You should just watch the video that Hider put up.
im sorry but when u a move FIVE dragoons (and im sure this would happen with more than 5 goons aswell) into a single mine the mine shouldnt even come close to damaging a goon, and this is 1 mine were talking about.. terrans usually have more than 1 mine in a spot
Did you watch the linked youtube video? 5 dragoons were amoved in BW as well. The results were random. Some times they killed it before. Other times they didn't. But when they did in BW, the effect of the splash was alot more severe. So in average, it seems as it balancewise not being stronger in Starbow.
i dont need to watch a video of a SC2 mod trying to replicate goon vs mine engagements when i play BW every day. that would never happen in BW, you cant mimic that situation because the AI and game speed (lat/lag) is completely different in BW
Eh, the point is that it doesn't actually replciate it. Its different, but as you could see in BW, some times Spider Mines did go off on 5-amoved Dragoons. That's why I can't understand how you would say it would never happen in BW.
the odds of a mine going off vs 5 goons is pretty low in BW. it was more of a pathing based thing, if u a moved into a mine ur goons would walk in a line, the first goon would glitch into the mine but the ones in the back would kill the mine before it got to the goon. if u only have 2/3 goons their attack would glitch and theyd run forward into the mine
in general starbow vultures/mines are much better than in BW because the AI is so much better. mines dont explode on each other and u cant drag them with zeals like you used to in BW, and theyre much easier to place. on top of that vultures are insanely fast which makes it easy to harass with them
I believe you're right, but we're talking about SB here.
On March 01 2014 10:33 Kaos_StarCraft wrote: Spider mines are pretty troublesome, especially when a pack of vultures get inside your dragoon group and start placing mines. You have to stop attacking the vultures and move your goons back before re-engaging which gives the vultures a bunch of free dps. This makes roaming the map clearing mine-fields a little hard when vultures that outnumber your clearing pack show up. I'm not exactly sure how you would nerf them though outside of a very minor speed reduction.
This was the case in bw too. Any ways, dirtybag is the best terran I've played in starbow. He is experienced in this mod and seems to be a great tactician as well. Regardless of wither the spider mine proves to be overpowered or underpowered, the dismissal of his skill is not warranted.
I think the biggest difference between Vulture here and in BW in terms of effect on direct compact are these;
- Vultures have 10 less HP than in BW - Vultures move a lot better in Sbow (we can say that about all units, but some units benefits more from it). - It is generally less hurtful to be hit by spider mines than in BW (splash is less in Sbow) - Vultures have 1.5 casting range of Spider Mines, which makes them slightly more effective at landing spider mines during battles. - Macromechanics (incl. reactor) overall favor heavier Vulture production relative to BW (w/ slightly less siege tanks instead). So generally in Sbow, the terran is gonna have more Vultures in a normal situation than in BW.
EPT
