On March 01 2014 07:14 TT1 wrote: do the developers/balance testers understand how broken mines/vults are? theyre 10x faster than any unit and mines always trade cost efficiently, if u dont have an obs with ur army u ALWAYS lose goons to mines. its such a fucking joke
Isn't it too early to complain about balance? And wasn't the point of BW that most units are OP?
why is it too early to complain about balance? the dev's have been making balance changes on a weekly basis and ur 2nd statement is wrong on so many levels
Because everyone playing it does not know how to play it well yet. Including you. Maybe mines are not balanced and maybe it does not matter because you can do something else that is not balanced from a terran standpoint. Like in today's ZvTs people complained how Storm with smartcasting it too OP vs zerg.
All I am saying, you cannot just storm in and claim you know everything and how it should be done. At least it needs to be a consensus between a group of best Starbow players.
As for the second part of my sentence, well I didn't play BW on any high level but all over TL and in stream chats wherever people complained about Sc2 balance and boring factor and compared it to BW they always said BW had OP units on all sides but that was OK because it made the game fun and it balanced itself out. That is why I said that units being OP was the point of BW as it made the game more fun.
Drunk as hell on my vacations to Colonge's Karneval and I can't believe people are complaining about balance. There's no problem about imbalance, just find strategies to overcome your issues! Isn't this a strategy game? Isn't this a game aimed for elite minds? Cmon, keep those brains working!
I call it the IdrA mentality: having ideas about how the game should work and then basing your play on it.
For instance, IdrA hated protoss and felt that they shouldn't be able to hold certain attacks, so he would attack-move his army into protoss, lose, then say that the problem was with the game instead of his bad decision making.
If storm is really powerful in starbow then you shouldn't crash your army into high templar and then complain about it, but you should avoid the protoss army or use other counters.
On March 01 2014 07:14 TT1 wrote: do the developers/balance testers understand how broken mines/vults are? theyre 10x faster than any unit and mines always trade cost efficiently, if u dont have an obs with ur army u ALWAYS lose goons to mines. its such a fucking joke
Isn't it too early to complain about balance? And wasn't the point of BW that most units are OP?
why is it too early to complain about balance? the dev's have been making balance changes on a weekly basis and ur 2nd statement is wrong on so many levels
How you present your complaints is pretty bad tbh. Maybe you could phrase it better and look less childish that way?
im mad about having to spend energy pointing out stuff that should be obvious to anyone who understands anything about gameplay. i know i sound elitist but the dev's shouldnt be making drastic changes right before their 1st big tournament, once a few good terrans start playing the game seriously you'll understand how strong terran is
Dude calm down, mines are far from imbalanced but I think you are whining about everything so I forgive you. Mines are actually pretty awful.
u tell him girl
How did you do 40-2 on ladder when i stomp you every game?
You won me 2-0 in the first 2 days of me playing Starbow, you did really well Arthur but I would crush you now like a bug sadly
Not to mention you cheesed me both games <3
I played some random stuff and those were my first games not 2 first days xD
Not sure if December wanted to make a post about it. But below is a video of the differences between Spider Mines in BW and Starbow. This is a a reponse to TT1 not being satifised about not being able to amove 5 Dragoons vs Spider Mines in Starbow, but if you look at the below video I am not convinced that Starbow Mines are better on average.
Drunk as hell on my vacations to Colonge's Karneval and I can't believe people are complaining about balance. There's no problem about imbalance, just find strategies to overcome your issues! Isn't this a strategy game? Isn't this a game aimed for elite minds? Cmon, keep those brains working!
I think TT1 was angry because he thought he lost to some random guy (and most people believe they deserve to win). However, Dirtybag is arguable the best/top 3 Starbow player atm going by internal results. He is 5-4 against RSVP over the last couple of days and 3-2 against the RedBanddit. Note that while Dirtybag had less APM than TT1, he had roughly 30 more in EAPM than him, so at least on the ouside one can't objectievely say that Dirtybag's mechanics aren't of a certain caliber.
On March 01 2014 07:18 -Archangel- wrote: [quote] Isn't it too early to complain about balance? And wasn't the point of BW that most units are OP?
why is it too early to complain about balance? the dev's have been making balance changes on a weekly basis and ur 2nd statement is wrong on so many levels
How you present your complaints is pretty bad tbh. Maybe you could phrase it better and look less childish that way?
im mad about having to spend energy pointing out stuff that should be obvious to anyone who understands anything about gameplay. i know i sound elitist but the dev's shouldnt be making drastic changes right before their 1st big tournament, once a few good terrans start playing the game seriously you'll understand how strong terran is
Dude calm down, mines are far from imbalanced but I think you are whining about everything so I forgive you. Mines are actually pretty awful.
u tell him girl
How did you do 40-2 on ladder when i stomp you every game?
You won me 2-0 in the first 2 days of me playing Starbow, you did really well Arthur but I would crush you now like a bug sadly
Not to mention you cheesed me both games <3
I played some random stuff and those were my first games not 2 first days xD
well..protoss
Be it as it shall, you should've been there. No "well..protoss" crap or similar. You have shown our community what Starbow is all about! No excuse for you complaining! You've got our hearts, be it in or outside the tournament.
why is it too early to complain about balance? the dev's have been making balance changes on a weekly basis and ur 2nd statement is wrong on so many levels
How you present your complaints is pretty bad tbh. Maybe you could phrase it better and look less childish that way?
im mad about having to spend energy pointing out stuff that should be obvious to anyone who understands anything about gameplay. i know i sound elitist but the dev's shouldnt be making drastic changes right before their 1st big tournament, once a few good terrans start playing the game seriously you'll understand how strong terran is
Dude calm down, mines are far from imbalanced but I think you are whining about everything so I forgive you. Mines are actually pretty awful.
u tell him girl
How did you do 40-2 on ladder when i stomp you every game?
You won me 2-0 in the first 2 days of me playing Starbow, you did really well Arthur but I would crush you now like a bug sadly
Not to mention you cheesed me both games <3
I played some random stuff and those were my first games not 2 first days xD
well..protoss
Be it as it shall, you should've been there. No "well..protoss" crap or similar. You have shown our community what Starbow is all about! No excuse for you complaining! You've got our hearts, be it in or outside the tournament.
On March 01 2014 07:26 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] How you present your complaints is pretty bad tbh. Maybe you could phrase it better and look less childish that way?
im mad about having to spend energy pointing out stuff that should be obvious to anyone who understands anything about gameplay. i know i sound elitist but the dev's shouldnt be making drastic changes right before their 1st big tournament, once a few good terrans start playing the game seriously you'll understand how strong terran is
Dude calm down, mines are far from imbalanced but I think you are whining about everything so I forgive you. Mines are actually pretty awful.
u tell him girl
How did you do 40-2 on ladder when i stomp you every game?
You won me 2-0 in the first 2 days of me playing Starbow, you did really well Arthur but I would crush you now like a bug sadly
Not to mention you cheesed me both games <3
I played some random stuff and those were my first games not 2 first days xD
well..protoss
Be it as it shall, you should've been there. No "well..protoss" crap or similar. You have shown our community what Starbow is all about! No excuse for you complaining! You've got our hearts, be it in or outside the tournament.
haha im joking with nubchio :D
<3 Man, I've got to visit your country. Spain isn't enough to joke about northen nubchios!
On March 01 2014 08:47 Laertes wrote: Just wait a moment here, you lost to Dirtybag and give the guy a little credit, he's no slouch. Dirtybag is one of the strongest foreigners ever to play Starcraft. I won't go into why he declined the tournament that's his business and his business alone, but Dirtybag is cunning, devious, and has an eye for exploiting weaknesses in his opponent's play. You have to remember something: This is the guy who goes up against say, Vega]Romson, a European GM who just CLICKED with Starbow the moment he played it, gets tossed the first game, and then doesn't lose again to the guy. Shuts him out like it's nothing. He probably did the same thing to TT1. He knows a thing or two about Starbow and I doubt it's because of imbalance that he beat you 2-1. You are better than most players TT1, but just because you've never heard of a player doesn't mean you should underestimate them and least of all get angry and come here and disrespect Dirtybag cause the man knows a thing or two about starcraft and if he would give himself the chance could give innovation a run for his money. Feel free to upload those replays, I'd like to see them.
Tell the same thing to Dirtybag, 2-0d him and he didn't gg either time, though he didn't talk about it on TL
On March 01 2014 08:40 Hider wrote: Not sure if December wanted to make a post about it. But below is a video of the differences between Spider Mines in BW and Starbow. This is a a reponse to TT1 not being satifised about not being able to amove 5 Dragoons vs Spider Mines in Starbow, but if you look at the below video I am not convinced that Starbow Mines are better on average.
Drunk as hell on my vacations to Colonge's Karneval and I can't believe people are complaining about balance. There's no problem about imbalance, just find strategies to overcome your issues! Isn't this a strategy game? Isn't this a game aimed for elite minds? Cmon, keep those brains working!
I think TT1 was angry because he thought he lost to some random guy (and most people believe they deserve to win). However, Dirtybag is arguable the best/top 3 Starbow player atm going by internal results. He is 5-4 against RSVP over the last couple of days and 3-2 against the RedBanddit. Note that while Dirtybag had less APM than TT1, he had roughly 30 more in EAPM than him, so at least on the ouside one can't objectievely say that Dirtybag's mechanics aren't of a certain caliber.
Dear Hider, as much as I've admired you corauge on fighting head to head with other stars, I believe A-moving should never be tolereted at high level skills. I'm not sure if other viewers/players feel the same, but I had to say it.
TT1 what the hell are you even talking about, mines arent even that good unless you always micro them, and even then they dont go off sometimes. You also were playing one of the very best starbow players. Dont be so sour dude, leave that to us low lvl players.
After going 4/5 in the qualifiers, it is time for my predictions for the main tournament.
Group A
Beasgyt vs. Sasquatch - Overall, I think beastygt has played alot of both Starbow and Sc2 over the last month, and while one could argue that his mechanics previously were a bit rusty, I think he is in a really good shape now. However, it is definitely alarming that he lost two TvZ's to Franscar (who plays a BW'ish style TvZ). I think Sasquatch will have a realistic shot here, but I expect Beastygt to win in 3 close macro games.
Impact - Crank --> Crank. I think Impact may have a bit of trouble with the speedlot 2 base timing attack that is overall a bit stronger than in BW. Especially if Crank is aware that Stalker follow up vs Mutalisks is pretty good.
Beastygt - Crank --> This could go either way IMO. In G1 I believe Beastygt will do a 2-base timing, which are really strong if well executed and in G2 I think he will opt for a faster 3rd (and more defensive playstyle). I expect that Beastygt will win G1 , but when he chooses the more passive route, Crank will kill him with sheer numbers. In G3 Beastygt will go for a 2base timing attack. Crank will kinda hold it, and game will continue into the later stages, but in the end Beastygt will hold off Arbiters and/or Carriers pretty well.
Sasquatch vs Impact - I think ZvZ is probably a quite technical matchup and the player that has the more refined build could easily win. I am, however, not sure if either of them has played enough Starbow (Sasquatch as I remember is at below 20 starbow ladder games), and in the end I gotta give it the best player which I guess is Impact.
Crank vs Impact - Could be closer now that Impact is prepared for the Zealot timing, but I think even in the later game its very hard for zerg due to Psy Storm. However, with good multitasking Speedling, Defiler (and Viper) + Ultralisks can be really strong vs Protoss. Overall, though I expect a 2-1 win to Crank.
Final standings: 1) Beastygt 2) Crank 3) Impact 4) Sasquatch
Group B
TT1 vs Innovation - I think TT1 plays a very BW'ish style TvP, and I think it will be a bit troublesome against someone like Innovation who was a kespa player and a mechanical beast in Sc2 (+ Vultures are imba ). So I expect a 2-0 win for Innovaiton.
RSVP vs Ryung - I think RSVP has a much better chance here. Sentinel openings require a bit of practice to play against, and though I am not sure whether RSVP will go for the 1base Sentinel expand build (somewhat cheesy) or the expand into Sentinel openings (very solid), I feel confident that we are gonna see some effective Sentinel play vs Ryung who might not even know the unit exist. IMO Qxc actually reacted okay'ish to the Nullsphre after his failed opening attack, but was simply too far too behind. I think RSVP will take G1 as it is likely that Ryung will attempt some type of 1base aggression which doens't work as well in and end up getting too much behind. G2 or G3 could go into Ryungs favor though as I simply expect that Ryung will do to much mutltiaskbased play against RSVP who is a bit of a slow player. Further, RSVP could easily get very much behind on the worker-count since he isn't very good at producing workers constantly. So I expect a 2-1 win to Ryung.
Ryung vs Innovation --> I think Inno will take it since he is probably the better Sc2 and BW player.
RSVP vs TT1 - TT1 IMO a bit surprisingly lost to Huk who wasn't that great of a BW player (I believe he may have been at B-level at his prime), and hadn't played that much Starbow. I believe TT1 can play a solid PvP still though and he is aware of the possibliity of Sentinels. Mechanically he is also a better player than RSVP so if they do similar builds I would expect TT1 to win, but in the end, I believe RSVP's more experience with Starbow will result in a 2-1 victory for him.
EDIT: Forgot that RSVP plays ZvP vs protoss. TT1 might actually take it then. Based on his match history I can see that he lost twice to Crank, but overall his ZvP results are decent.
RSVP vs Ryung - I think RSVP would have had a better shot at the game the first time they played. I expect a 2-0 win to Ryung.
Final standings: 1) Innovation 2) Ryung 3) RSVP 4) TT1
On March 01 2014 08:40 Hider wrote: Not sure if December wanted to make a post about it. But below is a video of the differences between Spider Mines in BW and Starbow. This is a a reponse to TT1 not being satifised about not being able to amove 5 Dragoons vs Spider Mines in Starbow, but if you look at the below video I am not convinced that Starbow Mines are better on average.
Drunk as hell on my vacations to Colonge's Karneval and I can't believe people are complaining about balance. There's no problem about imbalance, just find strategies to overcome your issues! Isn't this a strategy game? Isn't this a game aimed for elite minds? Cmon, keep those brains working!
I think TT1 was angry because he thought he lost to some random guy (and most people believe they deserve to win). However, Dirtybag is arguable the best/top 3 Starbow player atm going by internal results. He is 5-4 against RSVP over the last couple of days and 3-2 against the RedBanddit. Note that while Dirtybag had less APM than TT1, he had roughly 30 more in EAPM than him, so at least on the ouside one can't objectievely say that Dirtybag's mechanics aren't of a certain caliber.
im sorry but when u a move FIVE dragoons (and im sure this would happen with more than 5 goons aswell) into a single mine the mine shouldnt even come close to damaging a goon, and this is 1 mine were talking about.. terrans usually have more than 1 mine in a spot
also you can spam eapm aswell just by clicking alot :D, in the 2 games i lost i was supply blocked for 20 secs to his 4-5mins +. that just doesnt make any sense to me, i kept losing goons inefficiently to his vulture harass but i dont know how i could have handled it any better. vults are just so fast and mines always trade efficiently
anyways im done with this argument. its ur game, do w/e u want with it. ill be done after tomorrow
EPT
